i did like the post......friends?

They have a specific agreement not to read each others posts - they have both reiterated it several times.

When IASS posted a nice message to CO on her thread the other day he did it to her very first post - so not to read anything -

If KJ paid as much attention to them s she does to "winning the advice competition" (how telling was that coment?) then she might keep to their agreement - I am begining to think she is trying to redeem herself by being the one to get through to IASS - at any cost - even breaking the one agreement they have kept 100%.

SP

When a person vents and they are held up to what they say, and called on it, it inhibits their ability to move on and heal from the emotions they are expressing.

IASS is venting - it matters not that he is right or wrong - what matters is that right now he feels trapped in a system that does not work for him. He is fed up - full of frustration - feeling that even trying is futile because CO's responses are pushing every button he has and no one sees how it is for him.

A ventee is only helped when the ventor does nothing else than listen and acknowledge the emotions expressed. not the words - not the topics - but the emotions. IASS is expressing his emotions using terms and concepts with which we do not agree. I am offering to be his venting partner - so he can let it out and not be called on it. As much as CO needs to know she is normal - so does he.

CO is slap bang in the middle of normal for a BS who is in the beginning of discovery and is moving into fact finding and all the pain and fear it entails.

IASS as a WS is slap bang in the middle of normal in the anger, frustration and feelings of futility at telling the truth and finding it doesn't calm her down it makes her angrier and emotional to the nth degree. If he were to be able to act as we would like for the process to work he would be so perfect that he would never have had the A. -

He needs someone to recognise that he has a need to let it out. He has, HAD IT right now. He hasn't got it he has "had it" in spades with neon lights and wearing a bright pink feather boa. He needs a way to let it out in a healthy safe manner.

In a while he will not feel the same as he does now - but calling on him in any way, will only inhibit his transition to the stage where he can come back and work the program again. If he had only known, the ****** he was creating for himself - let alone for his wife, that being in this sitch would be so horrible, with no easy way out and it seems that whatever she does that seems to him to mirror his behaviour - she is never wrong!!!! Well he would never have had the affair ! ! ! - - but he did ........ and now he needs to let it out - so all chill for a moment and let him breath .... breath ... breath .....

How about it IASS - want someone to vent to, whom will understand that you need to let it out? - better on me than on her - it just makes it worse when that happens - I guess you found that out.

Usually a therapist gets paid a lot of money to listen and say - hmmm ... so that is how you feel and how do you feel now? They are your venting partner. Just a very well paid one - easy part of the job - takes little training, where i come from friends do this for you, here in the US people often pay therapists to do it. Weirdly enough - I am trained to listen - I have a help line in my home - so you won't get me enraged or upset or even worrying that you will stay this way for all of eternity - or that you need to GET IT in the next post or few posts - just accpet what you feel for now.

No advice in response - just allowing you to let it out. You will get all the advice you need from this thread - Nikko and Co are well informed and willing.

SP

Nikko,

I was under the impression they don't want to read what each other has posted, not what others have posted to them. That being said, you got me questioning this, so you're right, we should get clarification. Until then, I'll obstain from sharing my posts. Thanks again!

KJ

SP,

Your statements are harsh and hurtful. Please read my recent post to Nikko, and my post to you on the other thread.

KJ

kj---problem i had was you posted his wifes quotes also.....lol. lets just be wary and careful. your doing great...thanks for understanding i wasnt trying to be mean.

ok...guys, so you dont think i abandoned you----i have hubby home today and we have tons to do...plus i need a break. something happened to a friend of mine that is triggering me badly and i DON'T want that to color my responses here. i hope all had a good night last night and you all have a good day today...but i am taking a small break....just till i get my head straight...lol i promise i will be back...

Hi there Sorry,

My mom has been in town all week staying in the guest room with the computer so I had to go MIA for a few days.

Lots of drama this week for you two. I just wanted to "second" Silverpool's post about seeing your "anger breakdown" post as a major vent-fest rather than being a huge, detrimental backslide to your recovery.

Had I read that a couple years ago I would have been one of those offended BS's that you apologized to. But being this far out with a really good recovery, I can see that it came out of the intensity that you are putting into the recovery and the high emotion, high stress rollercoaster of it all. My H became a near perfect WH recoverer, but not perfect. He messed up here and there. You are doing great as a WH recoverer, but you are not perfect and will mess up too. And I am saying that your "mess up" was your outburst/anger reaction to her picture seeking (as annoying as it is to hear, that was quite a "normal" BS thing to do, btw).

She will learn to protect herself from doing things like that, but for now she is trying things out, figuring out what helps or hurts her. Your reactions to her need to do sometimes inappropriate and detrimental things will help to make or break her healing. Did you hear that? I will say it again:

Your reactions to her need to do sometimes inappropriate and detrimental things will help to make or break her healing.

I know you can't turn back the clock, but for future reference, here is what would have helped me to continue healing after I made a harmful choice to seek out the OW pic:

BS: I found her pic on the internet.
WS: How do you feel? (calmly)
BS: She is prettier than me!
WS: No she is not. There is nothing about her that is prettier than you inside or out. This is the worst mistake I have ever made, I hate that this is hurting you so deeply.

Do you see how this conversation takes the spotlight off finding the picture, and puts it back on the feelings and the healing process for both of you? Please don't attack her for the foolish actions she takes as her mind desperately tries to grasp how this happened to her marriage. Instead, stay calm and focus on her feelings and the healing process of the marriage.

I know it is hard, Sorry. It is so hard. My heart aches for you two as you are in the midst of the heavy workload and emotional pain of recovery. But I still see that you are doing very well with recovery thus far. This week's stumble does not shock or disappoint me in any way on either of your parts. It is a normal part of the process for her to do strange things that seem to impede the healing and for you to occasionally lose it and react in an unsupportive way. It is hard Sorry, you are doing well and I continue to be proud of you both.

Have a good Sunday with your family,
Blessings,
Glad

The truth often is - ask IASS.

SP

This is actually a problem we are having at this current moment. I was gonna surprise her with a trip to see the Oprah show but out of no where her friend tells her that she wants to take her for her b-day so I had to confess my surprise and let my wife know that going to the show was something I was already planning but didn't tell her because it was gonna be a surprise. To make a long story short my wife told me I was making the whole thing up because I am selfish and don't want her to go with her friend and she also responded with she is going with her friend because she does not want to go with me because of the way she feels about me (trust, faithfulness, lying)and the A. She also said I had the last 8 years of our marriage to do it so now that I want to try to do all these things for her she is just supposed to go with me and not her friend. She said she would rather go with the friend because I had 8 years to do it and I didn't so too bad. I also could have took her to NY where the A started but I didn't, I also could have taken her to Pittsburgh were I met the OW but I didn't so if I really wanted to be with her why didn't I invite her to those places instead I met some ****** and now that I can't have the ****** why should she feel special about me planning the Oprah trip. Maybe I should go with OW she said! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I am also upset because I over heard her talking to the friend about how she is thru tip toeing around my feelings. If I tell her I don't want to do something or go somewhere, she is going to do it anyway and it will be too bad for me! I know in the past I was a selfish and possessive person. But now that I had this A she is tossing her responsibility of being a caring spouse out the door <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />. I also heard heard her and the friend talking about sending e-mails and posts to OW and calling her names and posting insulting names on the OW profile page. I know most of what my wife would post would be true but it upsets me that she is investing time in contacting the OW and thinking of things to send her and write about her that if she spent this time investing in our recovery we would be further along and when I talk to her about this she gets mad and yells at me at tell me I am just upset because I don't want her bothering my "girlfriend". She also says I must still care about OW if I get upset about what she is doing. This is so far from the truth. I would love to actually join in and sent OW mean and insulting posts but I would rather take the time and invest it in our recovery. That is what upsets me. I don't care what she says about the OW . I just don't think it is beneficial to our recovery. I am doing everything I can to leave the OW in the past and she is doing everything she can to bring her to the present day. I know this sounds crazy but, I think I may have to have my wife write a "no contact letter" to OW! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

WOW ...is it just me or are you under a microscope every time you post...LOL! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

O-Well don't stop what you are doing. I know you mean well and maybe your approach is not always by the book but sometimes all it takes to get thru to someone is to get down to their level. Sometimes the hard facts can be a little too much to understand and it's nice when you come and offer the cliff notes to the help me better understand what the others are wanting me to understand. Hope your weekend is going Great KJ...Oops there I go again, SORRY! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Good to hear from you ...was wondering about you. Thanks for the nice words and keep up with the prayers. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Hey no breaks !!! Get you butt back here <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

THANKS for the warning...I start running now...LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Thats what I was hoping for, Thank you so much for being open minded.

Sorry,

Microscope is right. Geeze, it's enough to make me quit this forum all together, but I think I'll just bow out of your thread for now. I'm sorry to do it, 'cuz I believe we think quite a bit alike, and I've always felt you've understood my points, even if I am not the most eloquent in writing them. So, good-bye fella, <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> keep up the good work. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

KJ

You can't be serious!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

I need your help! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> I am asking for your help...how can you turn away when I am asking you to stay!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

This thread isn't about you or what others think about you ...it's about me and thats why I thought you where here! My W and I want to work our marriage out and both agree you have been a asset to our recovery!

Now put the way others make you feel aside and think about how you make me and my W feel. You are part of the reason we are where we are. You are part of my "Dream Team"...You,Nikko,Kiwij,Glad have been her from the start. I like the fact the each of you bring something different to my thread. So get your "chop liver" butt back here ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

No you won't she was just venting with her pal - enjoying a hate fantasy, much like you enjoyed your sex fantasy with her and the one about your wife being a two and not fulfilling your ENs - a lot like the one you are in now that is all about "it is all about her hurting you now".

Every time you hold her up to the light and hide your truth in the shadow - you stick a knife in her and recreate the wounds of the past. Allow her, her version of vent - concentrate on why you did this to her - what is missing from your make up that she cared for you so much and yet although you loved her you didn't think she deserved the truth about pleasing you - what made it OK for the solution to that being her kept in the dark and you seeking sex elsewhere.

Let us not justify the "allowed OW to fulfil my emotional needs " with any credence. She would not have known you HAD any emotional needs if you hadn't told her and chased after her and according to you, lied to her to get her to sleep with you the first time. So nobody crept into your love bank - you opened your bank doors wide and said to OW "show me da money!!!"

Now you have vented and got a lot out of your system - lets get down to the nitty gritty about you and lets leave CO to feel her own pain and find her own way through it. She will decide whether she is right or wrong.

Your energy should be to regard all her activated behaviour as if it is a big ol' vent. Just see her emotion - ignore the words.


Now did you read any of Nikko's posts - we want you to look into your actions and your descriptions of them and see if you can figure out the truth - not the version you gave us before about being a victim of letting someone creep surreptitiously into your love bank - we know that ain't true - ask KJ - she will tell you - she is an the good side of recovery - not because she talked to SH, but because she listened to him and fessed up to herself first and so was able to see what she had done and make amends. it is not her words that have healed her husband - it is her actions and attitude change.

See KJ - I call 'em how I see them - the truth hurts and comforts us - depends on how we judge it ourselves.

So now tell IASS how you had his view when you were in the fog - and then your eyes were opened BECAUSE you LISTENED, used your ears of discernment - not the filtered fog ears. Tell him how it made all the difference as to how you viewed the A and to the withdrawal that was so painful at first.

SP

ya ready to go back and get to the questions yet????

I just got a chance to catch up on your situation. I can tell you are hurting and really trying to heal. I like you and CO and am pulling for you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I think it’s good that you have a place to vent. CO is grieving the loss of her marriage. Yes, you are still together, but your previous marriage is gone, never to return again. Look at the steps of grief: 1. Denial- Why is my spouse behaving strangely? The thought flickers through your head that he may have been unfaithful. Nooooo, my spouse loves me and would never hurt me. 2. Anger- It’s the feeling of wanting to fight back. Hurt the OW and hurt the WS for the pain they inflicted. 3. Bargaining- Yes, my spouse hurt me, but I don’t want to lose him. I’ll say/do things to so that I don’t lose him/my marriage. 4. Depression- Overwhelming hopelessness, frustration, bitterness, self pity, mourning loss of previous marriage. Feeling lack of control, feeling numb. 5. Acceptance- Either for the new marriage that you build together, or the life she will build alone.

Anger/bargaining/depression tend to mingle together. I think that is what you are seeing when she promises that she won’t ask questions after two weeks, then gets mad a few hours later, then is blue in the mornings. She is grieving, it has nothing to do with you. Your old marriage is gone and she is trying to decide if she wants to rebuild it or if it’s better to move on. I think part of the decision about whether to rebuild the marriage is if she can trust you. She’s not sure yet. You can be there for her, but you can’t make her better.

Hang tough! If you still want to fight for your wife, you have a long road ahead.

NO! I am ready to give up on my marriage though <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Since finding the OW picture my wife has looked at it 3 out of the last 4 days at one time or another. Yesterday she tried to lie to me about looking at it and when I keep asking (5 times straight) she finally said YES she did look at it but it wasn't to look at the OW picture it was to read OW profile and see what guys are writing to her. She then got mad and told me that I shouldn't be questioning her, she is not the one who had the A. I then said well if you didn't see anything wrong with what you did why did you lie to me at first. She said she does not feel as though she has to answer to me! This crap is gonna kill our chances of recovery. Now this morning she just told me she showed a friend at work the picture and let her friend also read the profile and her friend also thinks the OW is a wh0re. I asked her what was he purpose for showing the friend ? She says because she wanted to. I said o-kay so you showed her the picture but why did you encourage the friend to read the profile , she said to show the friend how much of a wh0re the OW is. I then said I am sure your friend already knew that without reading the profile, she then replies with I also wanted her to know how disgusting of a guy you are. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I asked her why is she trying to make me look bad, she says she is not the one making me look bad, I did that when I had the A. I said I know that and I realize that but why do you want to go out and broadcast my faults! Don't forget the more you put me down the more you gotta live with to you friends as we work thru this. She then says well I don't know if I even want to work on this. You had no respect for me or the children and I am so sick of working for someone who didn't give a F''' about our marriage.
I told her "I know how easy it would be for you to quit. I admit sometimes I feel like quitting but not because you are not worth the fight but because I don't want to keep you from being happy . I totally believe I can make you as happy as I hurt you so just sit back and don't feel like you have to work at anything, let me do all the work and in the end I am sure you will be happy with the work I have done". I also told her that "I don't think it is helping our recovery if you keep trying to contact or harass the OW and than get off the computer pissed at me and hating me". I also told her that "I am sorry for all the times I get mad at her for what "I" think is non productive toward our recovery. I am not her and I don't know what needs to be done for herself to get thru this, only she does". I also told her that "I don't judge her actions for going on the computer and looking up OW picture and I don't judge for for looking at OW personal site the last 3 out or 4 days. I do think it is slowing down the recovery but who am I to talk. I lied and keep things from you for the last 5 months(up until last week ...thanks to MB) so if this recovery is behind schedule it is my fault. I didn't do right the first 5 months so I can NOT come down on you for not doing right the last 4 days. I just told her that weather I thing it is productive toward our recovery or not I just hope going on the OW site and reading her bio and posts every other day is sincerely helping you".

I really believe not having counseling the last 2 weeks is starting to catch up to us. We have to get thru some insurance issues and that is the hold up. Hopefully my wife will be able to sort that all out today. Well I gotta get ready for work ...C-ya later alligators <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


ps- I am not really ready to give up on my marriage, I am just upet wondering if she would be happier without me and not having to go thru this.

Yucky.

I'm sorry it is so yucky right now. Hang in there.

Yes, I agree, weekly counseling is an absolute necessity, even if you have to pay out of pocket. Best money you will ever spend. You should go every week without fail. Or perhaps one week together, one week just her, but every week. It is essential right now. You need that. 14 days left to your own defenses is too long right now. I know what I talk about. We would start falling apart about the 5th day after counseling and luckily knew we only had to survive a couple more days before our next "regrouping" with our counselor.

((((sorry and sarah))))

Glad