Ok one more time - this is her version of venting and you just got a great post about her grieving - you gotta get out of seeing all she does as an attack on you. It is about how she is dealing with HER pain from the past that you did help cause, but that is not be the issue - if you keep poking into it and being her Dad/Hall Monitor it will become about you, here and now.

When you had the affair it was not an attack on her was it - no it was self gratification - whatever caused you to have the A - the feeling you got from it and the judgement you used was self gratification - what she is doing now is her way of dealing with this - if you stop asking her, pushing her, putting the emphasis on what she is doing and start to look into yourself - you and she will do better.

Ignore what she is sayong and doing - believe none of what she says and only 50% of what she does - she is acting from a place of pain ...

Nikko is going to put you in detention and make you write lines soon.

Tell your therapist to bill it under the code for Family Therapy - it will be covered then - marriage therapy often is not.

SP

I know ...I know... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I just hate to hear her say "I don't want to be with you anymore" . I don't want to take that lightly. That is my biggest fear. I don't want her to give up because it is so hard. I hate when she says "Why do I want to be with someone who disrespected me and my children" If she is gonna base her decision to stay or leave based on what I DID, then she might as well leave now. She shouldn't want to be with someone who is like that. If she bases her decision on who I am then I think she ought to give me a chance to prove myself and stop tagging me as a cheater. A cheater is what I was and never want to carry that label again! I am shammed of what I did. It would be just as easy for me to give up on her so I don't have to live with what I did but I am not a coward and I love my wife very much. There is no easy way out because I am in this to win it!!!

THANKS ...I will look into this...ASAP!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

For some reason I don't think that was a joke...was it? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I think that at some point..your wife will begin to see..just you. Just you includes what have done historically, presently, plan to do in the future..your actions..as well as your perceptions, personality..etc.

Asking her to disregard what you have done..or to distinguish between yourself and your actions..is probably not either possible or wise.

What she will eventually have to come to terms with..is can she accept the whole package..or not.

Then, is she willing to accept the consequences of her decisions.

She is MILES away from being able to do these things.

Look back and remember your fog bound days.

That is where she is at.

She probably *is* entertaining fantasies about what life might look like if she left you. You have tresspassed..divorce is absolutely a viable option, and she is probably tentatively treading that water. There is nothing wrong with her doing this per say..most BSs do at some if not several points.

Are you familiar with plans A/B?

I would suggest a modified plan A of your wife.

Meet the needs that she will allow you to. Eliminate LBs. Demonstrate healthy and admirable behavior. Demonstrate remorse and genuine change of heart for past behavior. When she says something hurtfull to you..tell her that it is hurting you. Let her see your pain..but don't blubber or cling or beg.

Pretty much all of the same rules apply to a wayward BS as a wayward WS, save exposure..she has been exposed to enough, no?

Then..after a period of time..when the behavior is affecting your own ability to sustain love for your wife but you still have a few kegs in the tank so to speak..

You lay it on the line.

You love her, are very sorry for what has happened, want above all to do whatever is necessary to rebuild a marriage that is satisfying to both..but have come to the end of your rope. That you will need a committment to either rebuild..or divorce because YOU are not able to remain in limbo any longer.

I don't think it a good idea to just stand there and take abuse..she'll continue to lose respect..and her respect for you is critically low as it is.


Hope you find something helpfull in these suggestions

I do not recommend doing any "plans" on her. Just remember this is her fog of emotional agony. She has hate fantasies about all of it including you - it is healthy for both of you to vent in this way. I wish you would both call me and vent to me and give each other a break all those free minutes going to waste - lol - just think if you could yell at a woman all the things you want to yell at her. Think of the release. A pity you cannot send private messages here like you can on AARP - as it is none of us can be of more service than to "listen" to emails.

Although, you could do all the plan A - except don't tell her she is hurting you - when it hurts you - tell her "I know you are speaking from pain and need to get it out". it is like an exorcism for women - we say it enough until it loses its power over us to hurt us. Imagine of she is chanting like I did - I used to chant/yell my favorite bible texts out loud to myself - and sometimes I had to say soemthing to him - and he got mad as if he was the victim - would not allow me to stay in the same room and cry - I was only allowed to show him a happy face. AND we made it ....

AS for ultimatums about you have had enough - forget that unless you want to make sure you lose your family. Too early for anyone to be like that.

Just stick with it - you can do it. I haven't thought out how anyone can be a real venting partner for either of you yet - but there has to be a way - the logistics of doing it on this site and them getting jumped on by some - just don't seem good - their must be a way - hmmm maybe a separate BS and WS threads for venting posts - and those on here cannot refer to them??? Hmmm have to think.

Anyway - serious about Nikko and the detention? - you will have to wait and see ... Going to read COs thread... then to bed -

I am very sad today - my Ex pat friend's husband just died - so I am sitting here crying for her and him.

Seeya later

SP

sorry----i am sorry for abandoning your sitch right now...but i am very upset at another ws and dont want to take that anger out on you. i think you'd appreciate that....lol. i am also waiting for you to begin dealing with you and the questions already posed to you on this thread.....i am reading....but not posting much at the moment cause everything i say might be colored with my anger and disappointment in someone else.....

Well not much has changed. It is going on day 3 . Yesterday I saw her for 1/2 hour total...once in the morning when she was getting ready for work and during that time she pretty much ripped me up the whole time. I just sat and listened. When she was all done I went to our bed and cried. She came in there and started venting some more. It was almost like she smelled blood(me crying) and came in for the kill. The second time I saw her was when she came to my job to pick our daughter up and wouldn't even give me a hug <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> . I then came home from work and she vented a little more and went to bed (7:00pm) We usually go to bed around 10pm. Well I didn't mind because she seemed like she could use the rest so I took care of the children as far as dinner and played, then I put them to bed. This morning I woke up to a angry voice in my ear saying" I don't want to be with you, I don't want anything to do with you, you have ruined 8 years of my life...marrying you and than taking you back have been two of the biggest mistakes I have made and I don't want to deal with this anymore...I told you before if you ever cheated on me I would leave you so , thats what I am going to do." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I rescheduled my appointments today so I can be home with one of my daughters. I am afraid this long journey may actually be coming to an end and I don't want to regret not spending the time with my children because I have committed ALL my time to my wife to help her get thru something she does not want to deal with. So I going to get going for now, I want to go spend some time with someone who isn't ever gonna give up on me. Thanks for all your help MB! I am happy knowing that even if my wife does divorce me I have become a better person and have learned so much about myself since joining this site. I am positive my future will be better(with or without my wife) thanks to all your help! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />

Sorry,
At this point you are doing the right thing in just keeping your mouth shut as she is so angrily lashing out right now. I can imagine it is dreadful to bear, but she needs to get it out of her system, and if you do not counter attack, she will not collect any new ammo to fire back at you.

I know it seems hopeless right now. It is day 3 of this dark rage for her. I am certain she hates it too but feels powerless to stop her angry urges. Hang in there, DON'T lose it back on her. Stay calm and silent with regard to any anger back at her. Hopefully she will be exhausted with her anger outburst soon when she sees it serving no purpose but to exhaust herself with the darkness of it all.

It is okay to cry, that shows remorse and hurt for the situation. That will penetrate even if her anger won't allow her to admit it. I would guess that she hates how she is acting and feeling right now, but again, she feels powerless to stop it.

Lets pray together that the Holy Spirit will release her from this bondage of anger. That He will soften her heart and that He will seal up all her vulnerable cracks that satan is so heavily attacking right now.

Love her gently, Sorry. I know it is awful. I feel terrible for the intensity of both of your pain right now.

Don't let go, stay strong, look to the Lord for your strength, seek His face always.

Blessings,
Glad

" Holy Spirit PLEASE release my wife from this bondage of anger. I ask you to soften her heart and that you will seal up all her vulnerable cracks that satan is so heavily attacking right now. AMEN!"

I really feel God will answer this prayer...go to the main index...I just replied to your thread, there you will see why I am confident in this prayer. ..."James <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />"

wanna suggestion......she is stuck on your still lying....go do a polygraph. do it get it over with...if your being honest...no problem...she will also have proof to your honesty. if you are not being 100% honest....you are prolonging this.

let her have her anger---get it out now as much as possible. she just needs to find constructive ways to do it...unfortunately she isnt posting much so the help to her is limited....

listen....you have had a long time to process what you've done....she is still reeling from it...she needs time. she may very well end up divorcing your butt...but what you did is worse than anything you can imagine. when people ask me what it is like i calmly tell them....."imagine yourself being BRUTALLY raped in your worst case scenario....then imagine going home everynight to get into bed with the rapist....then imagine forgiving him and loving him...and realizing the person who broke you in the most horrible way....is also the one who holds the keys to your healing..."

that is the reality for most bs's.....what you did sucks, period. now get over yourself and start unravelin your ball of thorns and let her grieve.....everything she believes in is gone...she is lost....

So true Nikko.

And great suggestion about the polygraph. Think about it Sorry. I have heard others talk about this before.

She is totally stuck on the lying. This could be a tangible way to put that issue to rest. Would you be willing to do this for her? Could you offer it up to her? And don't just throw it out there in some discussion where she is freaking about your lies. Bring it up to her as a serious offer in order to help her tangibly with the A lies.

And I loved this Nikko:
"what you did sucks, period. now get over yourself and start unravelin your ball of thorns and let her grieve....everything she believes in is gone....she is lost..."
I do not have it in my personality to speak the harsh truth like this---that is what is so great about humanity, we are all different--I am glad you are here to voice these things to Sorry.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Always pulling for you two,
Glad

Did IASS tell us that? I thought he said she was going on about the "I said I would divorce you and I will" thing.

Anyway he needs to ignore all she says and 50% of what she does - she is venting and in a place of agony I think we have told him that in spades

- do the polygraph if she asks for it - otherwise it will look like another passive agressive way of controlling the situation. So you pass the polygraph and can then tell het she HAS to believe you and stop being angry - what will that acheive - it doesn't mean you will always tell the truth - just that you did for the polygraph ... we already know you can tell the truth when you want - we all can ..... this has been going on (angry stage) for days, not months, I know you feel like you ae in a pressure cooker but you could do as Nikko asks and get on with YOUR part of the recovery and stop pressuring her to do so - the longer you hold her up to the light, the longer it will be before she can move through the stages she needs before she can get to anywhere else -

Linda playing Devils Advocate ..... to this suggestion, so it is looked at from all sides .....

I have already offered this , Then she says "it does not matter if you are telling the truth ...you still had the affair and I don't want to be with someone who can disrespect me like that!" Then I say well why did you bring me back then? There is no point in the test . She is trying to tell herself she does not want to be with me and it ultimately is gonna be up to her . I thought this being open with her and telling her everything was suppose to build my trust no make her trust me less! I also thought it was supposed to bring us closer and all it has done is move her further away.

Iam , it takes time...give her time and space to swallow it all. This stuff doesn't happen overnight. It will be a long, bumpy road to recovery. Now be a man take yer lumps. Would that be one lump or two? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> (just had to throw that in! LOL)

It will Sorry, it will.

It takes t i m e

Its a marathon, not a sprint.

I know it is so hard. I'm so sorry.

Stay consistent.
((((sorry and sarah))))

Blessings,
Glad

I am in this for the long haul. I just don't think she is <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> She is getting tired of dealing with this(rollercoaster) and from what I can see wants to just move on. Well all I can do is what I have been doing , which may I say up until 4-5 days ago she said was "perfect!"(that was how she discribed it) She told me I was doing everything right. Well since I am doing everything right now she wants to start going back to all the things I did wrong before. She used to always complain how we weren't going to make it if I didn't open up and answer her questions , so now that I am doing that she has nothing to complain(vent) about this guy sitting before her, so she goes back and brings up stuff from my past. I have faith this marriage will work out and I am not gonna give up because she is thinking about throwing in the towel. I am not gonna lose her!!!! We have come too far to stop now!

I will and the funny thing the series we are starting in my mens group tonight at the church is "Consistency". Living for God consistency from morning to night. Not just on Sundays or at bible studies, ... consistency all day everyday!

Well I have been given the job to find a MC. My W gave me the list of names today and told me to find one myself because I am the one who needs counseling. I then said well what about the insurance, she said your a big boy time to start getting used to doing things for yourself. I felt like saying o-kay just remember those words when the trash needs to go out or when work needs to be done on the roof!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> But I held my tongue like a good little boy and just said alright. She then replies with, "Oh tell them it will only be for one person because you can go by yourself since you want to work on this stupid marriage. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" /> I am not going! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" /> " Well I just called the insurance company and had them e-mail me a list of providers and I also made two local calls to the ones my pastor recommended. I guess I am in this by myself. I didn't need her to get me into this mess so I am a "big boy" and I will do what I need to do to get this marriage back on track ,,,even if it means going to MC by myself. I always said it takes one to tear a marriage down but two to build it . Well I guess I will see if there is any truth to my own saying <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Keep the prayers coming . Lord knows we need them! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hey there,

Here is a new perspective for you on what is going on with Sarah right now....

You said up until 5 days ago she described your actions were "perfect"...Now for 5 days she has been drowning in dark anger.

I can only speak to my experience and so I could be way off base in what Sarah might subconsciously be thinking but....I think she could possibly be unconsciously testing you (while also validly grieving).

My H's whole being really turned around when he got on board with recovery. But it took forever for me to trust that this "new guy" that was sort of likable that I was living with was actually here to stay. I didn't want to start bonding with this "new guy" for fear that my "real" H would show back up and I'd be even more the fool to believe that he had "changed". Am I writing this correctly to make sense?

So I know that I unconsciously or consciously tested him by being unresponsive, unkind, whatever during parts of our early recovery. And there were times early on that he would lose it and I'd think, AH HA, there he is, my "real" H, I knew this "other guy" was too good to be true!" Then he'd rally and continue to be who I needed him to be while I processed my pain.

Consistency wins out Sorry. Be consistent. My H "consistencied" my brick walls down to where I couldn't resist this great guy he was becoming any longer. And I finally was able to let my guard down and be vulnerable and in need of him in a way I never allowed myself to be even pre-A.

So perhaps some of this might apply to what Sarah is going through. I don't know. I just thought maybe sharing some of what I went through might provide some insight.

Your take-away, once again is BE CONSISTENT and let her grieve out her anger until she is sick and tired of her anger. She will get there. I really do not think she is giving up. Really and truly be the guy she wants, needs, and thought she had before her personal reality was blown apart. Stay strong.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Glad

sorry---you've posted three times since my last post....are we going to start unravellin or are we just gonna concentrate on how bad she is making YOUR life right now...cause i gotta tell ya....your deflecting is getting on my nerves...lol...and after this week i only got one good nerve left!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Passive Aggressive's forte is distraction from dealing with the truth - it is all about someone else -

Come on I Am So Squirmy - you are losing me now - I didn't have any nerves left to begin with - my FWH wore them away at least a year ago. I amy have to come where you live and shine a bright light in your eyes - you know " Ve haf vays of Makink you talk!!!"

Don't make me bring Colonel Klink .... or am I so old no one else remembers him ???

Linda