Alright I will , I have time this afternoon ...I will go buy her one today. I have also been doing a lot of reading from DR.H and have been a bit confused on what he says and what others here think. Here is one article in particular... He is saying during recovery the focus shouldn't be on the past but on how to make the present day and future better. All I keep hearing from mu W and others on here is answer everything she asks! This could go on forever with someone who is resentful. I have answered all her question about the A but thats not enough, she sits and dwells on the past when ever we are alone. Every time we are alone she spends the whole time telling me how wrong I was with the A, like I don't already know. According to DR.H that is a LB and I am actually starting to not want to be around her because all she does is bust my butt about the A! What do I do? I have answered every question but now the questions are not even direct questions any more they are unrealistic ones like "if I would not have found out about the A would you have met her again? ". Whether I answer yes or no to the question what difference is it gonna make? It is a "what if" question and so there is no real foundation to the question. I am sure it is something she wonders but I can sit here and wonder the same thing. I could sit here and wonder what if the tables were turned and she was the one who had the A , I could ask her what if she had an A with someone to get back at me, where would she meet him, would she feel sorry, what if she got pregnant during this A, WHAT IF...WHAT IF ...WHAT IF ?...but I don't because the facts is she didn't so why dwell on something that never happened. The questions are getting annoying! Help Please! Am I being selfish or is she going on too far with the questions. She feels asking any kind of question is justified because fellow MB's and DR.H speaks of radical honesty which means if she can think it up I have to answer it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> I don't think DR.H would approve of these broad questions, according to the article I posted above. What do you guys think? I wnat to continue doing the right thing but at the same time she has to as well. Know what I mean.

WOW...no comments yet! Lets go guys get your butt moving! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Sorry,

Interesting you should bring up Radical Honesty. I have been wanting to ask you AND your W a question for a long time.

If you and your W are truely trying to recover, and are using Harley's basic concepts, i.e. Radical Honesty, then why do you not allow each other to read each other's threads? It just seems to me you guys would be moving forward MUCH faster if you talked to each other like you talk to others on this forum. Maybe others have told you the same thing, I might've missed it previously. Anyway, it's been on my mind for some time now, so thought I'd pick your tiny, useless, stupid brain. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Have a great day, I am!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

P.S. You have a message on another thread. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

KJ

Oh, one more thing.

Ironically, Steve Harley basically reiterated the article you posted to me and my H on Monday morning. I subscribe to it wholeheartedly.

KJ

I don't want to read her thread because I would then hold her to what ever it is that she is writing. For example if she were to write that she is not gonna ask me any more questions...I would hold that to her and remind her of it every time she falls and starts asking a question. If I don't know what her plans or intentions are I won't hold her to them. Know what I mean? That is what the private threads is all about. Its not about secrets it's about having a place to go and vent and talk with out offending the other spouse. Sort of like IC.

Well I gotta jet...talk to ya later "STUPID" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

PS- ROTFLMAO...Get it this time... LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> ?

Sorry Sorry, I still need clarification on some things (because, after all, I am SO stupid! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />)

1) Why should someone be held accountable for things they say to others, but not to the person who is being talked about? IMO, this just seems so much like talking behind each other's backs.

2) Don't you WANT to know your wife's plans and intentions? How else do you know if you are making strides in your recovery? SH has instructed my H and I to collaberate on EVERYTHING we do, whether apart or together. I can't imagine not knowing what his intentions are, and I know he thrives on knowing mine.

3) It seems to me you both do way more than vent in your threads. If that's the sole purpose of having private threads, I think you've gone too far.

Please don't be offended by my questions. Your approach is just so different than mine, I just want to understand it so I know whether or not I need to make changes to my own approach. Appreciate it, thanks. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

KJ

P.S. Ya, I get it now. Thanks dork. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED... I got the book! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

When do you want me to present it to her?

Hi sorry,

how's it going? Now that they have the who's online feature, everyone can stalk eachother on a whole new level.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I look forward to hearing what Nikko's plans are for the journal. She has really invested in you two and has provided excellent advice.

It is good to hear that your IC has a plan and direction for your appts. Keep up the good work and continue to fill Sarah's EN's.

I don't know what to say or advise about her continued questioning about the A. Just be gentle and validating to her.

Hang in there!
Glad

give her the journal. i posted to her....

I get upset when she sets a standard and I follow it but she does not. She was totally gonna divorce me 6-7 weeks ago but then she said she didn't want a divorce and she wanted me to come back home so we can work on our marriage. She also said she didn't have any more questions because she knows all she needs to know and just wants to move on and focus on our marriage, Well now I get very upset sometimes because she still asks questions and just yesterday she said she is glad I am home but she does not want to work on the marriage because every time she works on it she finds out a new revelation that sets her back so this time she isn't doing anything for the marriage and it is up to me to work on it this time. When I remind her that she asked me to come back home to work and focus on our marriage she says she changed her mind! That really makes me mad. I would have rather her leave me out and not bring me back home to a wife that does not want to work on the marriage. It is hard on me and the kids because she told them mommy and daddy were not gonna fight anymore and here we are again just like before when she kicked me out of the house. So you see KJ it makes me mad because I held her "accountable" to what she said and now she is doing everything opposite of what she said when she brought me back home, If she wasn't ready to work on the marriage and stop fighting I feel she should have not asked me to come back home. So if I were to read on her thread that she told a MB what she was planning on doing I would expect it to be carried thru, especially since she is the one who suggested it. Just like everything esle she suggests and I do but she does not. I feel like I am jumping thru her hoops.

No, I don't want to know her plans and intentions because It will just get me more upset to KNOW she says one thing and does another. For example
1)She told me to come home to work on the marriage, now she says she is not ready to work on it because I need to work on myself first. Well than why the heck did she tell me to come back home then
2)We both agreed to listen to our pastor and go to IC to better ourselves and then go back to him to focus back on the marriage when we are ready, now I have been to the mens support group every Tuesday, met with the pastor once and set and attended IC with a marriage psychologist since we agreed to work on ourselves. Now ask me what she has done since our pastor suggested the IC 6 weeks ago...she done NOTHING! She won't even set a time to go see the pastor, because I know she thinks he will not be happy with her efforts to seek IC. So to answer your question I don't want to know her plans because it upsets me that she does not follow thru with them so I figure if I don't know her plans or intentions I won't have anything to hold against her.

I would agree. I know she gets in her moods where she wants to give up and she vents a lot and I would rather her go on here to let it out than vent it at me and commit what the DR.H would consider LB's! Every one tells me to just hang in there and take every thing she says but the truth is what she is doing is wrong and is LB! This is supposed to be a recovery! So MB's stop justifying what she does as o-kay!

I am not at all offended. If I were you I wouldn't change what you are doing. Your H seems more dedicated to recovery than my W and that is definitely because I told my W so many lies in the past she does not believe a word I tell her. Just last night she told me she is not stupid and she know I am still talking to OW! I just thought in my head "yes you are stupid if you think I am still talking to OW", because I have not talked to that Mistake for over 6 months now. I would never say that she is stupid out loud because I really don't think she is. I know she is just paranoid of the possibility I could still be <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />. She even took my cell phone away for a week and a half recently and finally gave it back to me two days ago. I didn't fuss about it , I just handed it over and told her to make sure to let me know if I get any messages from clients or friends. I was starting to get used to her having it ...it was like having my own secretary <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> .I promised my 8 year old daughter last night that everything between mommy and daddy was gonna be alright, just hang in there and stay strong. I felt good telling her that because I am not lying and there will not be any more revelations for my W to find out, so the only place for our M to go is up!
By the way KJ , I know I got a little defensive with a few of my answers to you , but trust me they are not directed to you at all. I was speaking in general to the board. You are one of the few that actually "suggest" advice and don't just pop on the thread to tell me what you think I should be doing or what DR.H says. I look forward to hearing from you,nikko and glad. I am sure I left out one or two of you but these three have been her from the start and I owe tham so much! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />


PS- I take notice no one had a response to what I posted yesterday! WOW...all you guys preaching "Harley says this and Harley says that" have nothing to say <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />! Please someone step up and straighten me out or I may not be able to accept another "Harley" lecture about what the FWS should be doing, because from what I read there is two sides to every story...the FWS/FBS, so lets not choose the stories that fit for your shot because I can shot them right back! I am not trying to start a battle, I just don't understand how every body keeps telling me it's not good for her to focus on today and the future, because she need to work over the past, well from what I read DR.H does not like to dwell on the past! He focuses his therapies on the present day and the future! I am looking for a little clarification here so help me out.

I gave it to her this morning, I left it in her car with a few nice words written on the inside cover. On the first page I put "PS- Nikko has plans for this book so ask her about it"

Hey what do you think of the article I posted by DR.H yesterday? Better yet don't answer that yet because I want to see what others think first and I know if you respond everyone will just jump on your band wagon. So I will ask you about that later. Well if I don't get on here later today ...have a nice weekend and thanks for sticking by my W and I. I know we can be a real pain and immature at time but we really love each other and this is the first time we ever had to work on our marriage. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />

i'll check back later....and yes i avoided that question for a reason.....tell ya later.....

You are still too early for that article to work the way it should - that is after the BS has had the time to get the pain out - to use it now to shut them up and make them do it your way is nothing more than further abuse.

I am leaving you to nikko for a while - this whole WS making posts that encourage you to continue doing and feeling what each other are doing that is hurting your BS is a waste of my reading time.

What SH says to a couple in therapy is specific to them and to the situation and conversation they are having at the time.

When I talked with Dr Bill he told me what he was saying to all BS - and reiterated that point. So when I posted it I said so.

IASS - you as a P/A will feel the need for control and vindication - try to look at all you say do and think about CO and see if these are the emotions you feel when her actions seem counter productive to you. KJ often gives you vindication and it validates how she feels too.

I offered you support form a BS. Big step - somewhere to let it all out so you didn't get to thinking your venting was A REAL THOUGHT THAT DESERVED CREDENCE.

It seems you prefer the support of those who will agree to give your vents credence as real issues.

I leave you to nikko's care for a while and will beg God to open your ears and your heart to what she says. She has more patience for your constant harping on about how well you are doing and how your bs is ruining your marriage.

You could make one change - don't hold CO to everything you either persuade her to agree to or drive her to say with your continual droning on (nagging) about moving forward. I am so tired of it I am going to have a temporary separation from you, I am not surprised the effect it has on her is to use the D word.

BS get tired really quickly, of the "newly innocent" moving forward WS, who is soooo earnest in their recovery, but cannot be as earnest about their BS being healed from their pain in the time it takes.

Linda


Bye for now

everything silver just posted to you-----i hope you read it and re-read it and take it the way it was meant.

dealing with a passive agressive is exhausting for most people....especially one who also has controll tendancies....me, ive for the most part become immune. i have battled with the king, and im still here. you sorry, arent even a minion compared to him.lol and yes i have picked up on all the passive crap between the lines here....i choose to ignore it and NOT engage you or others in it. BTDT.....i dont play games anymore....

right now your biggest "wrong" thinking is..........

you are NOT in recovery.

did ya hear me....you are NOT in recovery. stop acting like you are. you are still at critical mass time. she is still being triaged.....i could find a million articles to de-bunk or support any dang thing i want....wont get into that with you because i know, that YOU, know YOUR WRONG!!!

stop trying to find ways to justify and control.....have you spoken to IC about that...what is her plan for that??? and exactly which rocket scientist was it again that told you to break an agreement with your wife(about the honest truth and the questions) without discussing it with her??? i cannot wait to hear how you thought breaking an agreement and not discussing it with her was gonna help? again, how's that working for ya??? you just shot down any credibility you had started to build right to heck. YOU are your own worse enemy.

best advice i can give you is find someone who is willing to work with a PA and get help for it....then get into counseling with the harley's if you truely want to save this.....doing the phone counseling is good for her also with her schedule....we use to do 6am calls with him. i dont know where you two live but the time zone thing may benifit you here.....

O-kay. I can accept that . That is all you really had to say but hey if you want to go, then go I am not gonna beg you to stay. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I guess what it comes down to with you is a FWS can't come on the boards and be open. Maybe I should hold back on things or better yet maybe I should say some of the things I write on here to my wife. I am sure that would help...NOT!!! I thought this was a place where I could come and be open weather I was wrong or right. Did you forget I am the FWS. With that being said you have to know there is gonna be some issues for me to over come and learn. If I was a open person I would not have had the stupid affair in the first place! WS have lots of issues that need to be discovered and dealt with and I actually thought you were gonna help me discover those issues and help. O-well Thanks for everything you have done to help me better myself. I really have learned a lot about myself while being on this site. I have noticed members are quick to leave a WS/FWS but will stick by a BS/FBS thru thick and thin <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> . First Kiwij now silverpool! How easy it must be to give up on the WS/FWS but the fact is we are here because we too need help!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />

Thanks , that makes me feel like I've done everything wrong <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> I have been doing everything I have been told to do. All you know is what I write on here and that is part of the reason my W and I don't read each others threads because this is a place where we can open up and say whats on our mind with out hurting the other person, but if everyone keep leaving I won't have anywhere to go and the last thing I am gonna do is say or do things to my W that are counter productive to the process . So me being a passive person I will most likely hold everything in with out a place to let it out <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> . Why am I even on here? Now I can't even say whats on my mind. I came here and joined on my own , I was not told to or forced to. I wanted help because I know I have issues that I need to be called on so I don't continue to hurt my W like I did before. So again why am I on here...because I WANT help. For some reason everyone thinks I am just supposed to change my behavior in a week! Well I can tell you right now , that is not gonna happen so if you don't have what it takes than I guess you better leave.

I know for a fact I have been doing so much better since joining this site. I know it is hard for you guys to see your time and efforts pay off but believe me they are. I have been doing my best to follow what I have been advised to do. I think it is hard for KJ,NIKKO,Glad and you to see the progress I have made because you are not here with me living my life. You guys are not here at my house watching me humble myself to the advise I have been told to do in certain situations. All you guys see is the guy who comes on this board and lets out his thoughts. Sorry for that...

what we "see" is the guy who is letting loose with his pa/control tendancies.....and your right....most people dont have the fortitude to deal with it...its exhausting. do you see in what you wrote the passive agressiveness??? the poor me/the he// with you attitude? that to me is all normal with pa's. for most people it is just aggravating and exhausting and they need a break from it.....because it gets their emotions all riled up---which is what you are trying to do. not me.......not buying a bit of it...and i noticed you didnt answer my questions.....lol

and ps.....you really dont know why kiwi stopped posting??? dont buy that either....:) she did the right thing at the time.

the problem with venting "YOUR" way is it seems you are not trying to work on the issues...just vent. venting is productive when you are trying to also change the problem behavior......what most dont see is the change with you....that is why they get frustrated....its not the vent...its the lack of change....kwim??? we can go around and around forever with this....only you can change you...and beating pa is a lifelong commitment.

so? are we gonna deal with what i asked you? lol limited on time today....baseball with ys in a bit....unless it gets rained out.....

sorry----this is hard, i know. but you resist unless it fits what you are looking for....and right now you are running like a nut trying to find a rug big enough to shove this all under.....that isnt gonna help CO or YOU. lets change the way you deal with conflict and get you healthier so you can ask/discuss with your wife how you really feel about things...good or bad.....and you arent trapped in a lifelong battle of pa behaviors.

WOW...Thanks NIKKO! That was a real good smack in the head! I guess I have not been thinking right. I sort of figured since the A was over and we are together then this must be the recovery. Please explain exactly what this is so I can better identify the situation. I think my biggest problem right now is not knowing where we are.

"rocket scientist"...try rocket scientistS(plural) My pastor, support group counselor, IC therapist, even our old MC. I know you and alot of others on here feel the same about answering questions but if you were to meet with us on a regular basis I think you would agree with them. My wife is different. I don't mean that in a bad way but she handles thing different than other people. They all know her personally and see what going on with her. I went against everything they said when I agreed to answer all questions a few weeks ago and to be honest with you she was worst than ever. We didn't talk, she would fight me, she would drop the D word like every other day. She even told me that i have made her feel so low that if another guy gave her attention she wasn't sure if she would be able to say no! She even sat me down the one night and told me in a very well mannered way that she is not gonna be able to get over what I did. She wanted to separate and most likely get a D. I know she was serious about it because she didn't even want to talk or return phone calls to her family or friends for a week, because she said she didn't want to tell them she was giving up. That went on for about 2 weeks and during that week I talked with each of the "rocket scientists" and all said that I have answered enough questions. The question now is for her...does she want to be with you or not? I want to answer her questions because she says she has to know but my IC said that is once again my passive personality wanting to give in and avoid the confrontation of her being upset with me. They all said she is gonna be upset with you when you answer the questions and she is gonna be upset with you if you don't answer them and with the types of questions she is asking it would be better for me to not answer them. My pastor even told me that if she has a real problem with a question not being answered that she should write it down and present it to him and he would be a buffer during this time period so I don't have the power to say what questions are to be answered and she does not have the power to what questions need to be answered. I know she knows her questions are unhelpful because why else would she make me promise not to tell you guys what she is asking. There are some valid questions she asks but a lot of them are in the same frame line as the one posted above, That is why my pastor said he would be a buffer to what question are sincere and should be answered and as of today she has nothing to show him so what does that tell you ? The pastor, support counselor and IC know of these questions and more and that is why they told me to not answer any more questions.

I believe she is her own worst enemy too. I am my own worst enemy because I get so much advise from so many peers that I am getting to a point that I don't know who to listen to and who not to, and when I make a decision that does not reflect what others thought was right I am in the wrong but I did what was right in the same aspect <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> This being a FWS is not easy. Everyone always says I will never know what she is going thru during this time but in the same way BS will never know what it is like for a FWS. The situation just flat sucks for both sides!!! Can we all agree on that? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

agreed....sucks big time.

her questions come from her insecurity. plain and simple. you showed her she is replaceable. and that my man is a hard pill for anyone to swallow....even tougher for someone so independant as your wife. she also depended on you and you broke that.....that is gonna take years to repair. her self esteem may come back with a vengance....that is when she needs to be the most careful and protect herself from others.....i know this from experience. it will take a lot of patience on your part....and help. when she is ready to accept it.

you posted something above i dont want a comment on but i want you to ponder......

"They all said she is gonna be upset with you when you answer the questions and she is gonna be upset with you if you don't answer them and with the types of questions she is asking it would be better for me to not answer them."

"it would be better for ME not to answer them....."

do you see the problem with that???

i want you to ask something else of yourself......the people you are trusting with this....include me in there also....how many of them have walked this path???? i always, as a catholic found it funny that people would go to a priest for marriage advice....i know im gonna get crap for posting this but here goes....what in hades do THEY know about marriage....all they know is what is told to them or what they read.....i would rather find someone with experience...but hey--thats me. i would not ask a fisherman how to become a firewalker??? so....what experience do these people have??? i dont need an answer but i think you need to think about it. and i will ask again....who made the choice to do this without discussing it with her? i will suggest again...dr. harley...best money i ever spent. cuts through all the crap from both bs and ws and gets right to the heart of things.

now as far as recovery---your headed there but you are not there yet....and this isnt all your fault....she is still dealing with life threatening wounds....hence the triage....you'll know recovery when it starts....think of it in terms of medical.....she is still being treated for those wounds....when the wounds start to heal....then recovery begins. you are NOT in recovery while still on the operating table....and i didnt mean that before to sound mean....but it is no less true.

if she agrees to the pastor being an intemediary...then fine. i also suggested this very same thing awhile ago to her...write them down....chew on them a bit....then see if you still need answers. i offered to help her with that....she just isnt ready.

now im gonna say this again....stop working HER plan and concentrate on you. what is your council's plan for you? what strides have you made in YOUR journey? work on you...let her alone.

Iamso, I stopped posting for a while because I knew the heat would die down eventually. It still hasn't really (if you read In Recovery) but I needed some time out for me and Rob to discuss things without it being broadcast all over MB for a while.

The responses to you have NOTHING to do with you being a WS. NOTHING. They have to do with you and your attitude.

All I can add is that you should really take heed of what everyone HERE is saying. You should LISTEN and when you've done listening, you should listen some more.

You are not and never will be the injured party.

It's interesting that you are a personal trainer. I guess you're used to being "the guy", charming, personable, fit and buff. Well, in this case you're not "the guy".

hey jen...welcome back. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> you have been missed......by me anyways!