Hey KJ...A.K.A "CHOP LIVER" , Whats going on at your end? I haven't heard from you in a while. Hope things are o-kay.

Well I have been doing everything I can. I have been doing everything the pastor, support group counselor and my IC have been advising me to do. That is one of the reasons I have not been on the thread as often. I am trying to avoid getting advice and direction from too many sources because then it gets to a point where I don't know who to listen to if there is a difference in opinion. So basically I have been doing everything my IC and pastor have instructed. I have finally got to the point where I know there is nothing I can do or say to help my wife. She has her own battle to fight and I have mine. I have mainly been focused on helping myself and letting her work thru her issues. I just continue to love her and be there for her. There was a pretty big situation that happened this week that sort of put my wife back a few steps in our recovery. She has wanted to e-mail the OW for some time now and has found a way to do it. I was not too enthused about the whole idea at first because I want to put the OW as far behind me(us) as possible and I felt that if she is taking time to search and find the OW so she can contact her than she is not doing her part in letting the past go and work on our future. I do everything I can to put OW behind us and it seem like she does everything she can to bring OW back to the present day. Anyways to make a long story short I told my wife to "just do it it get it over with" and when she did I didn't want to know when she did it or what she wrote because I don't really care , I am trying to move on and work on me. Well when she went to e-mail the OW the e-mail address was gone. She also said pictures of the OW were taken off the web page. Well of course this all leads up to me supposedly informing the OW what my wife was planning on doing. Which also means I am still talking to the OW. Which all sums up to me being a liar again! My wife does not know if she wants to wait for the facts to be proven to leave me! She says she knows I am still in contact with OW and I am playing her(my W) for a fool. All of these accusations are 100% untrue and I have had no contact with OW. I will admit it was pretty ironic that the day my wife went to e-mail OW the page was no longer there. I will also admit that I really don't care about this whole situation because I have nothing to hide. I haven't spoken to OW in over 6 months! So I am just sort of walking around with the "I told you so" thought in my head because I knew nothing good was gonna come from this whole stupid e-mail OW deal! O-well I have been faithful , honest and committed to working my marriage out and when she is ready to do the same I will be waiting!

Talk to ya later!
Ps- You said you needed another WS's support...what is it that you need? How can I help?

FYI

betrayal makes us nutz

steady as you can be coz she's off balance like a spinning gyroscope all over 'da place

as we all were

it will be this way off and on upwards to 2 years, depending on circumstances

be consistently truthful

be very warm with her today

you'll be OK

every betrayed acts nutz for awhile

we only stay crazy if we started out crazy! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

hang in there

you're doing a good thing by being calm

Pep

I thought I would comment on this and just maybe save you some more hurt...

keep this thought to yourself for now , "I have been faithful."

don't say this aloud unless you're looking for a fight! There would be just too many opportunities for her to love-bust if you said this to her.

My poor H tried saying this to me before 6 months of recovery and my sarcasm was bitter and lightening quick.

Save your W from herself ... keep this remark inside your own head for awhile longer

again, you are doing very good things in your marriage (now)

hang in there

good things will come in time <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Pep

Chopped Liver and Sorry [censored]. My, aren't we quite the pair?! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> (Oops, that was too much, please forgive me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />)

Here's my initial thought about your "update" to me. Know how you can watch a soap opera for several months, or years, then you stop for several months, or years, and when you tune back in, you can pick up right where you left off? Well pal, sorry to say this, but you are exactly where I left you. Miserable. Stagnant.

We need some fresh material. Be prepared to duck from the 2x4's!! Has a FWS ever done a Plan B?! Settle down folks, I'm not serious. Well, maybe just a little. Dig deep now BS's, and try to feel some of Sorry's pain here. He knows what a louse he's been, no one needs to point this out again. I want to know the answer to this question as much as Sorry does. What the he!! does a FWS do when the BS won't stop fixating, obsessing over the OP? How and when can one expect to move forward? Two years of no progress just seems SO intolerable to me, but then again I am the least patient person on this planet.

Sorry has heard all of the standard advice, and it is good advice, but there has to be something more, doesn't there?! I'm not trying to wage a war between BS's and FWS's here, I sincerely (and I think Sorry does too) want to know, "What's a FWS to do?!"

Sorry and I are both still relatively new to recovery, so there's more than likely things we are both missing in our actions toward recovery. We know how much pain we've caused. We know it's all our fault. Please, just PLEASE give us something good we can bite into so we can move our recovery forward, instead of riding this treadmill forever.

Thank you,

KJ

Call Dr. H and do as he says - many a pastor Ic etc. Tells the WS that the BS has to forget the past and get with the program - good divorce advice - other counsellors have a 23% success rate. Dr. Bill etc have a 90% success rate - I know whose advice I would look for. I told our MC/IC this week that if she doesn't get with the MB program she is history and I will drive/fly/run/crawl to have Dr. Bill help us. Dr. Bill says not to tell the BS exactly what IASS keeps saying here and has told us he says to CO. This "I told you so" nonsense has to get out of your head IASS, it is as if she can hear it and it will drive her crazier. We BS have to go through a form of exorcism about the affair and if you ever heard of the process of exorcism techniques it is hard on the one trying to get the evil out of their body - the A is like an evil that has invaded our body and the FWH, trying to tell us it is OK now, is like the devil saying" It's Ok, I am an angel now". That is why we are crazy.

Just allow us to do whatever we need to in order to excoriate the pain from our souls. Treat us like someone who has a deep knowledge you will never have and a terrible pain that we have to carry day and night. Imagine it is not from you or anything you have done and show that kind of sympathy and patience.

That is what a WS has to do.

kari---im not even gonna comment on that post...well most of it anyway....

the problem i think your having is that this is taking too long for you both....you want instant result. you dont like the fact that you are responsible for causing a wound that will take years at least if not longer to heal. get on your flame suit KJ cause here it comes.......

GROW THE HE// UP!!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> you made an adult decision to go out and do this and now you dont want to deal with all that comes with it...TOO BAD!!! and where the he// did you get the idea he has done everything he can to help his wife....he hasnt even learned what she needs and how to go about it...he is still trying to do things his way....and by the way....how's that working for ya????

you two just dont get it.....and a part of me prays you NEVER have to go through this trauma for yourselves....but you are clueless sweetie.

now....can we get back to constructive things that wont get him killed or at least not put in a coma....lol sheesh, plan b for a newly bs.....do ya wanna get him killed...:)

I noticed! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Thanks for the encouragement. There are times when I doubt our chances but it is nice to come on here and be reminded that this is normal and there is a chance.

THANKS

Thank You for the heads up! I will definitely keep it to myself. I think you made a very valid turn it direction with your last post so lets keep going with it. Are there any other things that a Fws should definitely not do or say that BS hated to see or hear? I know there has to be tons of things BS hated to hear. So lets see it!

This can like a "Dummies Guide to Recovery" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I forgive you! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I think I already know the answer to that ..."Nothing". There is nothing I can do because she needs to figure it out for herself. Meanwhile I will continue to work on me.

This does sometimes seem like a treadmill and I was getting out of breath riding the darn thing so I stepped off and have started doing my own exercise program that is making me a lot stronger and is geared toward me. Of course the treadmill is still running but I have learned that running along with it does not slow it down. So rather than exhaust myself trying to run on it at full speed to move thing along faster, I have learned to stay off it and let it run and hopefully the motor will burn out and the treadmill will stop. And when it does I will be a much stronger person , not because I ran on it but because I stepped off it and worked on myself. Get the picture KJ <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

So my fellow FWS what are so tips you can give that have helped you. Any lessons you have learned that you can pass onto me? I have been getting alot of advice from FBS , but I would also like to hear some suggestions from someone who can relate to the FWS position. Like I have heard so many times ...I will never know what it is like to be in the BS's position but the saying goes both ways...they will never know what it is like to be in our shoes as the FWS during this recovery process.

Alright I gotta go cut some grass. Look forward to hearing from you...Oops Sorry, was that too much <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />!

Nikko,

Happy Memorial Day!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I knew you'd hit me hard on my last post, and I understand why. But for arguments sake, let's say I was just feeling incredibly bad and frustrated the day I wrote that post. Let's say what I was REALLY trying to communicate was this:



A large part of my post that you apparently chose to ignore. We hurt too, differently than you, but we are humans that struggle with our actions every day. We're on these boards to better ourselves and to prohibit another A. So, without any further ado, please gives us some advice we haven't heard yet!!

Thanks,

KJ

P.S. I am growing up every day, but I'm still gonna have bad days. I just get SO frustrated at times, as does Sorry.

What if the advice you have already received is the best and most consistent you are going to get?

Let's be real here for a minute..you are chaffing under the weight of a few *weeks* in recovery.

You have been told and seemed to accept that this is going to be a process that is measured in years..sometimes decades.

Staying on the treadmill *is* the answer. It is the consistency, discipline, and committment to remain in a difficult circumstance day after day and seeking healthy alternatives to the destructive historical habits that begins to build a new foundation of "history" in the relationship.

If you are just having a bad day..why not say that?

I feel frustrated..impatient..disappointed...so irritable that I think all of my skin might peel off if I have to deal with one more problem...this is no problem I'm sure for anyone BS and WS alike as we can all identify with these *feelings*.

What is concerning to *me* at least is when I am not able to distinguish between what might be a feeling of passing irritation/mood swing..and a genuine belief that there might be an easier/faster resolution in your [or any] post.


Actually..I have often supported a plan A/B style approach for FWSs to use with their BSs for just exactly the reasons you suggest. Eventually the ball has to move toward divorce or genuine reconciliation. At some point..both parties have to agree to a solution..and no..I don't think it is acceptable for a BS to expect that a FWS will just allow the status quo to exist as is until the end of time.

The question is timing..and preparation.

Neither of you is remotely near the point in which I would advise this tactic.

You both have a tremendous lot of work to do before you are able to be a part of a healthy and functional marriage.

At this point you really aren't bringing much to the table.

Assuming that you do undertake this excercise I'd look at about two years ..not weeks..years before you begin to consider the plan A/B.

It will take that long for your BS to go through the shock/rage/withdrawl/etc and able to fully function themselves. At that point you will have a better idea of who you both are and what you have to offer/work with.

kari---no fights but i second what noodle has said....why are you resisting the advice already given??? you both have been given great advice....and no it is not easy. but none of it is. there is no shorter path....truth, consistency and honor in your word....that is what will move a fws foward. ask anyone....i am just as hard on a bs that is dragging their feet. both have to do this...but it is a life long commitment to change. that doesnt happen overnight.

it all happens in steps.....you guys are at the beginning of a very long journey.....there isnt a fastrack.

and i didnt ignore what you posted.....i chose not to respond that this is the path YOU chose....we as bs's have been put on a journey we never asked for....i know you know that. im not mad and i am not typing this to be mean....but as soon as you loose sight of this is YOUR choice....down comes a dip in the coaster....the bs "feels" it.

Nikko and Noodle, (sounds like a cartoon! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />)

I am not resisting what has already been suggested. I am either actively doing these things, or have tried them. Patience is not a virtue of mine at all, I'll certainly admit to that. My only purpose to my previous post, was to push BS's into giving me and other FWS's like Sorry, some new material. I'm not saying I'm done with the old, I simply want someone on here to tell me something I haven't heard before. I want more education. I have a tendancy to research things to death, and that's what i'm trying to do here.

Honestly, you guys have been great. You've helped Sorry and other FWS's. I want help too, just something I haven't heard of or tried yet. I apologize for my bad day, I should have just told you about it, but I'm passive/aggressive, so goes yet ANOTHER weakness of mine. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Good night,

KJ

hey, i could give you a list of a 1000 new things to do....but we aren't re-inventing the wheel here....lol

we tell you the same stuff over and over because it has been PROVEN in most cases to work! why muck with a good thing....

kari---we all have bad days...no apology needed. i wasnt mad. i have to honestly say i will have to go read up on your sitch more....i dont know enough about it to feel like i can offer anything. what do you feel is your biggest "block" or problem right now?

sorry---hang in there....she is healing and all she is doing is normal. sucks but normal....like i said before....she HAS to get this all out. and i have posted to her about the e-mail....

Me too. Alright now I am starting to get nervous...are you me or am I you? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Maybe it's a FWS thing but see a lot of my personalities in you when you write(not so sure if thats a good thing though <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> ). Would your husband ever consider coming on the boards? I would love to talk with him and help him in anyway since I know it is hard for the WS to talk to the BS about what we are trying to understand and how we want to help. Maybe hearing it from me would help him because I know what ever I would say is more than likely what you would say since we seem to have similar personalities. Anyways it is just a thought since you have helped my W and have been able to give her the WS side of things I could do the same for your H.
I was "diagnosed" as a passive aggressive a few weeks back by a few MB's. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> Then last week in my first session of IC the counselor told me I am a passive person and when it gets the best of me I become passive aggressive <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />. Those darn MB were right again <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> . She drew me a picture with the words ... passive---assertive---aggressive , on it. She then said I was a passive person which isn't good. But in the same sense being aggressive isn't good either. She said I need to learn how to be assertive and in a well mannered way let my feelings or thoughts be known. She said I most likely tend to hold them in for the sake of dealing with the confrontation/argument, which then gets me to the point where I soak up so much being passive I become aggressive and do what I want when I don't have to answer to anyone and thats when I become passive aggressive. She was dead on!! She said that is an area we are gonna talk more about in our up coming meetings. I have attempted to be more assertive since talking with her and I must admit it feels good to stick up for what I believe or think.

LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Hey I have DirecTV...I wonder what channel that cartoon comes on. I think my 4 yr old would love it. LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Sorry,

Do you have a bipolar disorder too?! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Since we seem to have so many personality traits in common, maybe you should see a shrink and get this diagnosis too!! LOL!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I crack me up. Ya know, we're gonna get busted by Nikko again for being too chummy! (kidding Nikko! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />)

Seriously now. Thanks for the offer regarding my hubby. His thread name is headsouth, he rarely posts, but he lurks. He has my full permission to read any and all of my posts. He is A LOT different than your W. He took control over our sitch on d-day, and hasn't given up hope for recovery for one second. If anything, he could maybe give your W some helpful insight as a fellow BS.

You gotta watch out for that P/A crap. I learned it from my mother, and she's a pro. I was having a horrible day last week, and pulled one of my old P/A tricks. It sent my H into a tailspin, big time. We hadn't argued in 3 months, then had two big blowouts in 2 weeks. Met with SH yesterday morning, that helped a lot. Just like anyone else on here, we have our down days too.

I've heard the "be assertive" speech before. Too bad old habits are so easy to fall back into! It is so true though, being P/A is SO damaging in any relationship, but especially between spouses. My family never expressed much emotion of any kind. My parents did not argue in front of us 4 kids. They were not touchy-feely people (no hugs). The first time I heard them say ILY, I was 26 years old and my dad had just had a severe stroke. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Damn parents anyway!! Just kidding. No I'm not. Oh God, there goes the P/A again!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Glad you have a sense of humor (apparently a dry one, like mine!), and liked the cartoon title. Maybe you and I could go into television and create a cartoon like SpongeBob! We could call it, "The Chopped Liver & Sorry A55 Hour"!! Guess that's not G-rated, but then what cartoons are these days.

Later dude,

KJ

As far as I know I don't have bipolar <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />


WOW...That is Great to hear. Do you realize how strong he is? I bet he could give my W some input but everyone is different and your H and my W seem like total opposites and I doubt what works for him would work for her <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> .

I had a troubling childhood <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" /> . I will talk to you about it later when I have more time. I am going to meet my W for lunch. Just want to stop by the thread and see whats new. Talk to ya later.

Sorry A55,

Have you ever rec'd. IC for your childhood experiences? My H thinks this would be beneficial for me, but I never have. Just wondering if you had, and if you thought it was helpful.

Talk to ya later. Have a great lunch!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

KJ

sorry----do me a favor.....if you have a minute go to the bookstore or a store that sells stationary and get your wife a really pretty journaling notebook. not just any old notebook...make it something special.....i have an idea that may help her but im not gonna tell you about it....she can if she wants....get the notebook. let me know when you get it and i will suggest something for her to do....