when i threw in the abuse comment, i meant it as a "cop out" that my X threw on me....claiming "mental abuse"...

i DID have a firecracker temper, and i DID say some awful things, but....it was usually not without provocation on her part....but i have learned, its not so much about right or wrong tha matters to a WS, its about selfish needs and giving into a weakness...

so it was easy to label me, but....i did do some serious self discovery and personal growth....

now, its HER LOSS....

thats why i threw it in, not so much as an easy description, just depends on your sitch and if she throws that label on you....

might give you alittle something to think on....it did me!

Sundog - re-reading your post. Thanks for the translation. No her crubms are NOT enough to keep me satisfied. And yes it is all about her needs. My worst fear is that she told him to put it on ice - probably until I go back to work when I won't be as intensly focused.

Sturgis - I completely hear what you're saying and will not beat myself up.

I don't have to tell any of you but this is so HARD to do. The most difficult thing I've ever HAD to do. I admire each and every one of you that have plan-A'd through this. And to think the the guideline is 6 months!!!!!

MDC,

I recommend the opposite. I recommend snooping even harder. Once you get the proof that she is not talking to him 'about work' then you can land another atom bomb on the affair.

you are just getting started my friend....im over 2 1/2 yrs from D-Day to divorce....thats a long road, and im still recovering on my own....

just dont get to discouraged when things turn south, or cathc you off gaurd....just look at as dealing with a addict or alcoholic....its an adicction, regardless of the "feel good" drug...but remember....

all good times eventually end, and every addict crashes!

you will eventually be in a position, when she does "crash" on wheter you want to "pick her up"

Yes, Sundog is probably right because I imagine Steve will recommend exposure here. Who can you expose to? Hey, she already said that he tells her personal info about his divorce, feelings for his X, etc. That is much more than work. He is sharing intimate details of his life and you can bet she is doing some reciprocating.

This is hard, but you can do it.

.

My plan a lasted about a year. The last couple of months she told me it was over with him, but there was that odd feeling in my gut, and I knew she had only told him to keep it quiet for a while.

When it came time to give her the boot, I had done plan A well enough that he was no longer the one she wanted. Exposure and time had also diminished the fantasy affair enough that she realized it was not all roses and wine on the other side of the fence.

Next week's going to be a killer too because I'm going out of town with the kids and she's going to be here by herself.

Wow Anne. How could have I missed that? MUCH more than work. And I do know she's reciprocating. There's NO WAY she can turn it off like she said she would. Now I wished I had put the recorder in the car...

Take advantage of the situation (as best you can) and hook up your voice activated recorder to an open (and hidden) phone jack in the house. Go to Radio Shack and they have this nifty gizmo that can send everything that is said on the phone line to your recorder. Costs about 10 bucks. Also, make sure to get a power adapter for the recorder so it doesn't depend on batteries.

If the roles were reversed, do you honestly think your wife would be as accepting of all of this babble from you? You judge a person by their actions and not by their words. Unfortunately for you her actions speaks volumes. Again if the roles were reversed, would she accept such words from you? Have you both been tested for STD's? Sorry but these are the consequences of affairs. By the way, what have been the consequences to her cheating and betraying of you and your marriage? No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change. Exposure is the key. Without exposure what kind of a message are you sending her? This is now her second affair. Do you see a pattern? There were no consequences to her first affair so why are you doing the same thing after this second affair? No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change.

Does she have any fear that you have no intention in staying in a marriage with a spouse that continually cheats and or disrespects and humiliates her husband? One last time: No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change. I wish you luck.

You're right Bryan. There have been no consequences but I don't think she'd care if there were consquences.

I guess I'm pushing too hard. I sent her some pretty heavy emails at work today. Then I just called her to see if she was on the way home & I guess I sounded despondant because she asked 'What's with the attitude'. I said I was hurting. Shouln't have said that. She said she couldn't take it anymore. She's not in love with me (we both know that. I'm not in in love with her either - the love is gone) and she wants a divorce.

Said she's not in love with anybody and she just doesn't think she wants to be with me. She asked me why she matters so much to me now since she didn't matter to me for 4 years. Said she doesn't believe that I really want her just that I want to win. Don't want to fail so that I'll be a "good" man. Says that I'm doing this for all for me.

She's got a stressfull job and a 90 minute each way commute and says her life is s***. I don't think I'm doing a good plan A because I'm not consisent around her. Sometimes I'm OK and sometimes I'm moody. Moody usually happens every other day at it usually happens when I find more about her talking to the OM or something around the A. So I've just got to keep my cool then?

I thought pressure would help? Is this a temporary set back? Maybe she won't go to counseling anymore? She REALLY sounded like she was COMPLETELY done with everything. Totall drained and exhauseted. Says that I don't respect the strain that I'm putting on her because of how hard her daily life is - stressfull job, rises at 4:30AM every day. She's miserable.

So maybe I'm going to fast. I don't know.

She really doesn't believe that I care about her. It's been 3 weeks since I said I did. I told her that I cared all along I was just not taking care of the marriage. Took it for granted.

She doesn't want to talk about the A AT ALL. Said it wasn't even an A. I guess this is a much longer road than I thought it would be. Sigh.

Heck I think I'm as sick of us as she is.

I think I've figured out that the biggest problem I'm having with Plan A is what to do with the information I find when I'm snooping. It makes me so angry and hurt that I can't keep it to myself and let her know one way or another which turns into a major LB and sets us back.

Any help on what to do with snooped info? Do I let my WW know what I know? If so, how often??

I'd just rather stop snooping all around but I know I need to to stay 'on top' of the A. Having trouble handling what I find.

BTW - exposure has not taken place yet I don't want to do anything until I talk to SH again.

MDC - I think you should keep snooping hard. I don't know what to tell you about the info you find. I never found a ton of info - but just enough. As soon as I had it, I confronted. My situation is a little different from yours, however. (except, of course, that my W has been saying the exact same things yours has - except my W has always said she wants to work on our M - not sure yours has).

Also, don't wait. Expose now. Why would you wait? The only reason I waited was because I thought EA might be over. Now, I sort of think it may have been over, BUT, there was still contact going on. I am glad I did it and I wish I had done it sooner.

You know the A is still going on, right? I wouldn't have hesitated if I had known it was still going on. You shouldn't hesitate either way.

thanks 19.

I don't know HOW to expose. Apparently it's tricky? Has to be done right or it backfires? Want to talk to SH first...

Yes my situation is different because when I press her she flys into a rage and says she wants a divorce. She's bullying me because she knows I don't want out.

MDC,


You are all over the place with" I don't want the M either" to "she knows I don't want out"

Please read: Dr Dobson's Tough Love

MDC - For several weeks after dday, I would tell my W I really want to work on our M, make it work out, blah blah blah - this was basically in response to her saying she didn't want to be married if it didn't change - if I didn't change. This went on for @ 2.5 weeks - I wasn't begging or pleading, but I was moping around etc.

Then, for some reason, I got pissed off and told her one afternoon that I didn't want it if it didn't change either. I said obviously I have not been real happy either and I wanted changes too. To a certain extent I was bluffing, but I was sick of her crap and I wasn't going to take it.

The next day she had a phone call with a friend where she told the friend that my comments had jolted her. That was the first time I told her I wanted it to change too or I wasn't interested in staying in it. Told her friend something to the effect that it made her want me more....

Now, she did continue contact with OM for 2 mos. after that - but it was almost all phone and really not too much - not even once a week. Don't get me wrong, I am royally pissed and she knows it, but it could have been much worse.

So, what I think you need to do is let her know that maybe you don't care whether your M works or not. Someone on this board once said "the person who cares least about a relationship controls it" - think about it - it is pretty true. Ever since I read that, I have tried to make myself that person - not sure it's me, but I try.

Fast forward to this past Saturday night - I tell my W that I told OMW. She tells me about contact etc. We argue. I told "I am ready for D. I wasn't ready back in Feb, but I am now...."

So, my point here is I think it's bad to be a doormat and make them think that you are the one interested. Let her know you don't give a sh1t - even if you do - bluff to a certain extent.

Now, don't do that just because I tell you to. I am not sure that is consistent with Plan A. Get some other opinions on that from others on here. I am no expert and my M is still in trouble.

If OM is married, call OMW or go see her and tell all. I don't see much technique to that - just do it. Other than that, I am not sure. Tell her parents maybe.

When do you talk to SH?

MDC - Tough Love is a great suggestion. That's part of where I got my ideas, I forgot. Go get it ASAP.