Well that's it. I narrowed it down to

"OK, that's great. Thanks.

River Tam"

No apologies. I did nothing wrong.

Great!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Mimi, imagining a confused WH saying: "Didn't I tell her to call me?"

{{{RT}}}, Sorry about your interaction with DS16. I don't know your timeline or all the details, but the A alone is definitely traumatizing. Coming here with the anxiety and confusion that engenders is a great way to handle it.

Thanks so much, LetSTry. It was a bloody hard thing to do. He's staying with me tomorrow, so I'll have a good chat with him then.

I HOPE I've confused him, Mimi! I send him these brief e-mails and tell him no reply is necessary, or just a brief one, you know, and I ALWAYS get details! Like, I asked him to deposit some money into the check account to cover some checks I wrote, and rather than saying, "Sorry, can't do it until Tuesday", I get this whole (I'm paraphrasing here) "You e-mailed me after 5pm, I the bank's closed, can't do it, can't do it over the weekend because I've got no money in my own account, can't do it Monday, but I can reimburse you Tuesday". It's like he can't help himself. He's ALWAYS been verbose, but I'm just aghast that after four months of Plan B he doesn't GET that I don't want these details.

Ah well. Not that it matters, it's just interesting.

Very likely, he realizes that you understand this aspect of his personality and he must enjoy this for some reason.

Plus, the E-Mails are his only connection to you and a part of him craves continuation of that connection. As in the eav thread, you met ENs that she is incapable of fulfilling so he is missing you.

It's all so hard to understand...almost imcomprehensible. I've only come to an understanding of a lot of this stuff once out of the drama of it all. So much of Plan A and Plan B was shock and/or action for me without much time for analysis or reflection..which makes this forum so helpful...

This is a lead-in to me sharing that the impression that I get from my FWH, if you find his perspective helpful at all...a lot of the relationship between him and the OW was about NEWNESS and DISCOVERY...There would be conversations like: "This is what I like to eat at Italian restaurants (for example); what about you?" You know, the conversations that you had when you and your WH were first dating. My FWH sometimes slips into this mode with me and I have to say: "I already know that about you"...

So there's a major pull back to the BS to recapture history..with them getting tired of always explaining their actions and point of view. It's FUN during the FANTASY AFFAIR life. It probably is bothersome when they are together day by day.

Thanks Mimi, that's interesting. It wouldn't surprise me if that were the case with WH, EXCEPT not altogether. He's a small town boy, you know, and connections are important to him. He's made a big deal about the fact that the OW is someone who's been in his life for a very long time (then, suddenly one day wonder of wonders, miracle of miracles, *he looked at her differently*!). He has connections to her family that he absolutely adores: she is his first serious (ie. live-in) girlfriend's cousin, and when he and this girl broke up, he said he missed her family more than he missed her, and now he's got them back again! WH is a creature of habit, if not downright a stick-in-the-mud, and I think he picked someone into whose life he could just slot into without effort. He can go to family dos and they know him and love him, there's a history there, and I think this gives him a sense of permanency. I most definitely get the feeling that I and my family have not so much been set aside in favour of something different and better, but replaced with something that provides him with similar ENs. So I'm not just dealing with the OW here, but the entire family, I think.

This is the first time I've really thought about this, so thanks for getting my brain cranking on this one. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

What a sick family..condoning their daughter's involvement with a married man..YUCK!!

Do they know that he is having an AFFAIR with her and that he abandoned his own family?

Oh, yeah. They know. They're good people, and the thing you've got to understand is that people just adore my husband. He is known as a man of character and integrity and just sheer *goodness* and no one realizes they are dealing with an alien. Regardless of the moral issues at hand, if he says he's left me b/c I emotionally abused him or whatever, they will believe him, and will look the other way to excuse him. And he was VERY careful to start his A AFTER he left me. He sees himself as a good guy, see, and this was his screwy way of not letting himself down that way. It's one of the reasons why he cannot be with MY family: because they cannot condone, no matter who he is, and because they don't see him as the good guy any more. "YUCK!" is right!

Don't you think that it was at least an EA before he left?



Are you sure? What if you told them differently?

I'm 99% sure there was no affair - even an EA - before he left. However, this is what he DID do: he started looking for someone - whether it was to self-medicate his MLC or whatever - within weeks of leaving. He said to me, "I've been visiting old girlfriends, trying to rekindle old relationships". Basically, this girl offered herself to him: she rang up to offer her "support" and express shock and sadness because she heard we'd broken up. She fit the bill, she was free, there was a bit of chemistry, and that was it. Bleagh.


They don't know me. They have no reason to believe me. And you know... without making ANY kind of judgement call about the kind of people they might be, WH is a step up the ladder for her. This family does not have a history of good men, so his arrival is like some kind of divine manifestation. He's nice, he's decent and he's got money, and yep, you'd better believe they'll support this. BLEAGH X 2.

I wonder how you can be SOOO SURE of this?


How long have you been married? It's that EASY to rekindle OLD relationships after many years?



Do you know this for sure or is this what your WH told you?

I also think that you MIGHT be making assumptions about this family.

I just hope your WH is not fooling you about all of this...setting up this scenario..no previous affair..she just rang me up while I was out their looking, etc...just smells fishy to me..

I could be wrong...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

It's OK Mimi, you're not the first person to suggest this to me, and I'm fully willing to admit I could be wrong. But H and I had a completely transparent R and at any given time I could track him down and know who he was with, speaking to, etc. Prior to this, my H's life consisted of work, 90% of the time. That's where he was. I won't go into details because they're boring, but for a start there's no way to fudge his whereabouts when he's working (he's the only funeral director in town!).

Also, even though they supposedly started off as "friends", THIS is how deliberate their embarking on their A was: because they both "knew" that I would accuse them of the A starting while he was still with me, they kept all the phone records - cell and work - prior to her entering the scene. They are there for me to look at whenever I like.


LOL! No, not after 21 years! And he had no luck. THIS girl, however, was exactly the "type". See, she's only had one other serious relationship: her marriage. Her OWN husband left his first wife and children for HER when she was just 17. And he left her a few years ago for some chippie he met on the Internet. So this gal is the type. Not just that, but she was READY. She knows no other way of getting herself a husband than getting one that's "ready made". She's insecure and has low self-esteem. Her father used to abuse her mother physically so you KNOW what's going on in that psyche. She's been abandoned by her own H, she has these beautiful, idealized memories of my WH because she remembers him from when she was a child. She's fighting a custody battle with her XH and in comes my WH like a knight in shining armor, providing support and care, driving her to court dates, etc.

It all just clicked together beautifully.


He told me, but what he told me actually fits (at least, more or less) with the info I've gathered myself.

I could be making assumptions about her fam, but I know they adore him, and I KNOW he's been welcomed into their bosom like a long-lost son.


That's fine, Mimi. You could be wrong, and so could I! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Thing is though... does it actually matter if everything he said is a lie? He's definitely having an affair, and I for one cannot see the difference between him having one before he left, and him starting one after he left. It's STILL an A. We're married! And he embarked on this A (plus him trying to "rekindle" the other Rs) within the first couple of months of leaving, when he was supposedly "thinking things through" about us and the separation wasn't carved in stone. My sister tells me he left to play the field, and I think - whatever his reasons, but I'm putting my money on MLC - that she may be right.

At first, really early on in the piece, I thought it DID make a difference. I thought it was different because they'd known each other, and she wasn't some ring-in. She wasn't all that young (just two years younger than me, eight years younger than WH), and they were "just friends". I swallowed this, because it's what WH fed me, and swallowed my heartache. I did this for a few months until I realized JUST what he was doing. Affair, affair, affair! And all the feelings I'd been shoving down erupted, and here I am.

Do his lies make any difference about how I approach this? You (and everyone here who has expressed the same opinion) have absolutely every right to be suspicious. It DOES smell fishy, and even if it didn't, he's a married man having an A, so what's that saying I've read here, that if he's opening his mouth, he's lying? So even though I believe him, it's an "official" belief: I take it with a large pinch of salt, and I have no emotions tied up in his words. Besides, he's proven himself to be untrustworthy, and a liar over the past year, so if it turned out he'd been lying, I shouldn't be surprised. If I were to find out that he'd lied about all this, I doubt it would affect me; after all, he's already done the worst he can do to me.

I will, however, rethink everything if you think his lies would make a difference in how I should be approaching this. Although, at the moment, I can't bring myself to consider anything other than Plan B. Any other course of action just seems impossible to me right now.

Quick change of topic...

Well, this is it, folks: the eleventh hour.

A couple of months after WH had left and was daily accusing me of "emotional abuse" and making his life he11 for 20 years (in hindsight, the A had started, of course), he told our older children that "I won't stay married to your mother for one second longer than I have to". Well, in one month exactly, it will be 12 months since he's left, which means that according to our laws, he can file for D.

Anyone want any anxiety? Because I've got a LOT here! There's plenty to go around.

Sigh... how have people here managed, waiting for the guillotine to fall? I just don't know how to do this.

{{{RT}}}

I don't have any great advice....just wanted to let you know I'm thinking about you. So, your H couldn't start a D until after 12 months of moving out?? All of these different state laws are too weird.

Has he said the D word recently ( or e-mailed you about it?). Sorry, I have missed a bit of your story...

Take care - whether you know it or not, you ARE getting so strong.

The anxiety will pass...doesn't feel good while it's here, but it will pass.

Kim

Thanks, Kimberley. I really need that assurance that I won't be like this indefinitely

BTW this is not "state" law, but country law. I'm actually not in the US. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

*bumping up for Mimi*

Hey Mimi,

I'd be really interested in your opinion as to whether or not it makes a difference whether WH was already having the A before he left me, or he embarked on it a couple of months after leaving.

Actually, I'd appreciate anyone else's thoughts on this.

Should be actions be different? Should I move into a different Plan? And if he embarked on the A AFTER he left me, is there less hope for our M?

Thanks.

River:

Your H is playing out the typical WH script. He seems to me to be more like a WH, previously involved in an A..than a man who only decided to leave. Typically, WHs leave home to further pursue the A.

You would be surprised how deceitful and sneaky WSes can be. He could have set up all kinds of schemes to be with her. What was to stop him from talking to her on a regular phone while at work? I think my FWH spent hours talking to the FOW at his office. He also owned his own business AND I thought I could always find him there but you know what..some days I didn't try..and he probably had an excuse that he ready in case I did call...it doesn't take that long for them to get together..what about running down the street to do an errand?..what about lunchtime...you see my point...

Why does this matter, now? I was thinking of the exposure angle..being able to tell others that your H is having an A..not just that he was unhappy in the marriage....

Exposure is important. You see, I wonder if the OW's family would like it if there daughter was held partly responsible for destroying a family...See what I mean?

I think you should remain in Plan B despite this, though.. I agree with you on that.

He exposed himself, which kinda pre-empted me. He's been very insistent (because of his good guy self-concept and image) for everyone to know he only embarked on this because the marriage is OVER and to be honest and open rather than sneaking around. He doesn't want to be seen as sleazy and cheating.

I don't think I can expose him further (although I AM honest to people I speak with and don't keep his A a secret) because now that I'm not in his life in any shape or form it'd mean that I'm involving myself in his life again. So I hope I'm doing the right thing!

You're right: he's had plenty of opportunity to carry on an A. Even though he was REALLY keen for me to believe him, there's no reason why I should, so I'm not going to accept his story as the official line any more. He's a liar, and that's that. Maybe I should have listened to my dad on this one. When WH decided to leave, virtually overnight, without a thought of consideration for me, children, or working anything out, my dad said, "It's a broad, RT." I refused to accept it. When, a couple of months down the track, the WH told me about the OW, and how she'd just come on the scene, he said, "I told you it was a broad, and it's been one all along." Well. Maybe he was right after all.

Just my two cents worts, RT.

Whether or not he was having an A before he left may not have an emotional impact on you or how you react to him, but it may have a legal impact in regards to money and the D. Best wishes.

I think for you to maintain a mindset that he is not a good guy and that he is sleazy will make a significant difference.

This mindset will affect you and your situation in many ways.

He and your children will pick this up in their dealings with you. You will maintain your self-respect with him and others. Plus in your conversations with community members you will continue to expose.

When the opportunity arose, I held my head up high and openly shared, when folks asked about my H: "He left me for another woman". He very soon learned that I was doing this. It affected their looks and conversation with him when seen as he WAS a pillar in our community..in politics and business...

He and the OW went into hiding..he took the backroads when riding with her rather than the main streets...so my H who likes to be out in the public chose to isolate himself...this was not the FUN type of hiding that it used to be prior to D-Day....

One of his favorite things about Recovery was.."I can be out in the world again"...

See what I mean?

You have as much strength and power as he does to combat his CON GAME....that this was "NOT ABOUT A BROAD"... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />