Yeah I gave up finding a counsellor here and went with the MB phone counselling. I didn't want to risk making things worse. I had to push pretty hard to get us started too. You might have to "convince" your wife to to it. I think things like POJA come later when the two of you are more healed. Don't expect her to be "enthusiastic" about it. My W often tells me that counselling is all about punishing her for "messing up for a couple months". I didn't use negative approaches to convince her to do MC though, all positive, just keep pressing.

One thing is very clear. The counsellor can tell her things that I cannot. No matter how I word it; how carefully I try to bring the subject up; it just doesn't matter; the end result is the opposite of what I hoped to accomplish. You have the answers; you probably have a good idea of the roadmap after reading so many people's stories but you can't be the one to tell her.

Also, for this reason I've refrained from directing her to any advice or even to this message board. I'm not sure if its the right attitude but it just doesn't seem to help when I try to "straighten her out". I'm hoping the counsellor will give her advice and things to read that achieve the same thing.

Did some snooping recently, no signs of A. Noticing some more effort from W lately so I'm feeling better.

We've been doing really well for a while. About a month ago the counsellor walked us through a "final" conversation about the affair(s) which really lifted a lot of weight off my shoulders (none of my fears really came true).

We have had some minor setbacks here and there but I think we're treating each other better than ever and there has been no sign of "wayward" behavior in my wife. I haven't had too much trouble with triggers or dwelling on the past and we're both doing pretty good at meeting each other's needs. My feelings for her are stronger than ever and I feel like she's treating me better than ever. We're getting at least 15 hours and going on a date each week.

There have been some minor setbacks. I did not realize that I made her feel "like she did in the past" a couple of times recently (kind of a scary thing to hear when I thought things are going great!). Certain interactions between us that seem like very minor frustration to me apparently feel very emotionally painful to her. I can understand that; in fact some of the things that really hurt me probably seemed like no big deal to her.

So, what next? Our last counselling session was a few weeks ago and I haven't yet scheduled another one. We talked briefly and she just wondered when we stop going to counselling.

Is there a "checklist" of things that should be done/discussed for a full recovery? What is the "complete marriage builders recovery program"? I wouldn't say we're fully recovered yet.

If you would find out that she had PA´s, would that make a diffrent???

Yup. Even though I had been trying to prepare myself for that and I was fairly convinced that it was physical, if that had been our reality I'm sure it would have set me back in a very big way.

HI!

The reason i asked you that question is becuse
You seem to focus way to much on the possibley PA part.

Imean it already been establihed that she had a affair.
If a where you i whuld just asume that is was a fullblown PA aswell,becuse the full truth always comes out one way or another. This way when or if the full truth comes out you want be setback in your recovery.As we all now that if someone is engeged in a EA
its most likley has some PA involved aswell

As i see it, it kinda hinders you two in the recovery part for now.

A now as BS you really want to now and shuld no,so it can be

A true recovery

Normal,

What I would say is this. Assume it was a PA and act accordingly.

I had the feeling there was a lot my FWW was not telling me and was pretty sure I was right.

Now part of the healing process is accepting the new reality and investing in that reality.

When you come to a new disclosure of info there is a new reality you need to accept then invest in.

The 20 20 hindsight thing comes into play. If I would have known then what I know now I would have.... and I wouldn't have .... You fill in those blanks.

But you will not be able to change those things at that point.

So my advice would to be invest in the reality that you believe. I know it sounds weird but I think it would help.

For me I now look back and think wow if I would have known that I certainly would have..... Kinda makes me feel stupid and used to a certain degree.

It is also why radical honesty is important. If you feel like the truth has been left out so the FWW can avoid the consequences you may be resentful. So if you think it happened just set your standards and boundries based on that.

She answered all of my questions calmly and non-defensively. I had assumed that there was a lot more that I didn't know about and that it must have been a PA but that turned out to not be true.

My "focusing on the PA stuff" was partly because that would obviously bother me a LOT and mostly because I was afraid I was still being lied to.

Right now we both seem to be doing our very best to meet each others needs and that is working really really well. Whenever I start to think about the past I just stop and think about *now*.

I believe I have all the information I need, we've been treating each other really well and steadily improving although I slipped up a couple of times recently (to me they were minor expressions of frustration but my wife was very hurt). We haven't been to counselling in a while. I wonder if thats a mistake. Am I getting ahead of myself again? How can I know when we're both fully recovered?

Normal,

I am glad to hear things are going well.

If you have all the info you need then you are good to go. You cannot prove a negative. If she is saying it wasn't a PA and you can't prove it then you should move on.

If her admitting to it is the only way to find out you may never know.

Slipping up is all part of the process. Humans are not perfect especially after they have been hurt. Sometimes we lash out etc.

I say that sometimes what I do I know wasn't right but was it understandable? For instance I think it is wrong to flip someone off however if they swerve into my lane then give me a dirty look because I gave them a honk to let them know I was there I might flip them off. Not right but if I said boy I feel bad I flipped that guy off they would probably say it was understandable.

Someone wrote to me it is a process and a long one at that. Do not focus on the day to day stuff focus on the changes that are occuring over time. Every M has day to day stuff is the M getting better over time.

I will check back here to see how you know when you are fully recovered because I haven't seen anyone answer that one yet. LOL.

Keep up the good work.