Hi all, though mainly it is for Loving. She is the only one that reads anyway. Hi Loving. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

No I have not left. I am still here. But it is getting harder every day.
I see more and more the merits of plan b.

• 
  1.It keeps you from going to jail for battery or murder.
  2.Keeps your tongue from being sown back on.
  3.Keeps you sane.
  4.Makes your world a calmer, less stressful place to live.
  5.Frees you to think about living life again.
  6.And it helps you keep that little bit of love left for WH before it turns to indifference or hate.
  
  Edited to add LA's number
  7.Stops you from self-betraying.

My time away has not been for nothing. But now is the hard part in making myself be able to impliment it and stick to it. I just dont know how to go about the details. I have a lot of details.

My thoughts are heavy this week. The weight of all this is weighing heavy on my heart lately. Cant seem to shake that. (PMS really sucks).

Still here.
Katie

Edited to add LA's number
7.Stops you from self-betraying.

7. Stops you from self-betraying.

Can I hold you accountable?

Who is your trusted, objective third-party for all communication to go through?

What are your thoughts...share them and you reduce their weight by half...

Stop shaking your heart...can't be healthy.

And yes, yes, yes...PMS SUCKS like a black hole.

((((Katie)))))

My son came home today...for good...after four years away. I'm gonna be a grandma.

Get the big picture in you fast and sure...and the details won't be obstacles.

LA

Hey Grams,
Thanks for reading. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Ummm, dont know about objective third party. Everybody I know is very biased right now. WH is still standing with kneecaps because my parents keep each other from coming here with a bat.

My thoughts....I am tired of living this way. I am tired of wishing it were me he was spending his time with. I am tired of being lonely. I am tired of loving and wanting somebody who doesnt want me.
And another thought....if I love him as much as I say I do, then letting him go will be the most loving thing I can do at this point.

I have not gotten to so many details. I just know every time he comes here and stays on my couch, it hurts me. I feel anger and resentment. At the same time I just want to hold him. I miss my H and my friend. And I know that I cannot be his friend. Not now. Not for a long time if ever. It hurts too much.

Somethings I cannot change or wont change at this point. His bandmate is now my friend and I resent the way WH brought him here and left him. It bothers me that he messed up his life in this manner. So I will do what I can for the moment. I want them to succeed with their music, even if WH is in it, so I will let them practice here. I will not be here. WH will not be allowed to sleep over to have mid day practices. (Two members work nights and have to travel 1 to 2 hrs to get here. WH is one.) Do these things seem resonable? DD has a field trip next week. WH was just going to come here after work and nap till they left for school. I guess I cant allow that. He will have to sleep in car or something. This is really hard. But I know he chose to leave, so he must bear the burden. I just hate not being accomodating. It is not who I am.

I hope you are happy about son and grandbaby? My DS in jail may possibly be the father of a child. Child is due May 7th. I am not so happy about that.

From the black hole,
Katie

Did you change your sccreen name?

Do not go into Plan B without having a good plan. Plan B is to protect your love for him. You need to do the plan b letter. I know you have told him what it takes for him to come home, but he is in the fog. Those in the fog do not hear well.

Dr. Harley says the letter is important as it gives them the roadmap back.

you have a really full plate right now. maybe plan b would lessen your stress.

Just know you are always in my prayers. I'm always reading the updates when you put them out and I agree, you have a full plate of issues you are dealing with. It's not just marriage issues, but other life issues as well. All of those place burdens and stress on you. I'll pray for God's grace and mercy to get you through each day, because I know each day is trial.

Let's put some reality into your list...see your choices:

"I see more and more the merits of plan b.

1. I choose not to go to jail for battery or murder.
2. I choose not needing my tongue sewn back on.
3. I choose to stay sane.
4. I choose to analyze, find my power, making my world a calmer, less stressful place to live.
5. I choose to focus on living life again.
6. I choose to keep that little bit of love left for WH before it turns to indifference or hate.
7. I choose to stop self-betraying.

Forget objective third-party....get someone you both know and trust...and do so today. No to band practices at your house...I don't care if you remove yourself or not...your WH and his bandmates are fully capable, complete, whole human beings and your mothering people to death must stop if you ever want to respect them or yourself.

Truly, Katie...killing with kindness is when you continually provide what others don't have through the consequences of their own choices. You're getting in the way, on purpose, like giving the finger to God, of other people's journeys and lives. You do it to be good, kind, support, encourage...and it only has a payoff in it for you, Katie...and harms others. I promise. What looks like giving grace has brought you to this moment in your life. You've done it. Your choices.

Please choose differently.

Until you stop telling yourself through your choices that you are worthless, must earn love, be good, kind and generous, even when each choice stabs at you, sacrificing you for them (the actions which will make you be loved through accommodation to everyone but yourself)...then you won't change your life. Your WH will come back and leave, come back and leave...like he has for the last two years...nearly three. Can you see how serving your own image above your self could be you being selfish and disrespectful?

When you find you're worth boundaries, around yourself and about yourself, and you're willing to love yourself enough to enforce them, then you will know real love...not this image love...Look to your choices, Kgirl...know they are yours and you are choosing, even when you seemingly don't choose.

Why would you be mad at your WH for his bandmate's treatment? That's not about you...that's you distracting and displacing your own stuff on someone else. Please stop that.

You have been tired before, of all the pain, betrayal and desire you have...and you haven't really done a Plan B, ever. Tell me, Kgirl...what makes this Plan B different from all other Plan Bs? What could this one have that the others could not?

I know you want to stop teaching your DD how to be selfish, live from fear and that sacrificing is how women get love.

I know you don't want that.

You're in my thoughts and prayers...you've got Askme and MF for ya, too...please take what might feel like an attack to heart...take the freedom and responsibility, and love, and balance your life. Not by reducing pain coming in...our pain comes from within...but by doing the really tough thing...stepping out of the way of others' consequences and risking looking like a bad guy when you have finally decided you're not god.

LA

MovingForward and AskMe,

Thank you both for looking in on me. Honestly, I dont think Plan B is going to do any good. I am resigning myself to a D. Had several emails with WH last night and something else I read, really lead me to believe that it is going to take a miracle for him to ever want me or our marriage again.

MF, yes he is in deep fog. So much so I think I believe it myself.
AskMe, he still gets your devotionals but has not read them in a long time. He is avoiding anything spritual. In fact, anytime he has contact with me and I can see the care in his face, he seems to reinforce to her his feelings for her.

I hope you both will continue to post. I need all the encouragement and help I can get if I am to do this.

Katie

Well this is a hard post, LA. Dont know if I have the answers or if I can do all these things. I know you may think that I always do things to earn love, but I also do things for people because I LIKE to. I LIKE helping a friend.

Finances and situation being what it is, I am doing the best I can. I cannot cancel their practice here. However I can tell them they have a timelimit to find a new place to practice before I end them. But I cannot end them today. I AM choosing to help them for now.



Before I still had hope. I think my hope is dead. With each contact with the fogged out WH, I loose more hope. I am tired of hurting. I know I will hurt for a long time to come, but I am tired of my heart breaking with each contact with him. I cannot change him or his mind. Only him and God can do that. I am not God. I am done trying to be. And also, I think he is so used to me being there, he is going to find a different world when I am not. When I am not accessable to him.

There is a new Divorce Care class starting tonight. I am going to go. I think I need the support and help. Certainly cant hurt.

WH will be here tomorrow for band practice. I would like to have my letter ready to leave for him when he gets here.

Katie

I'm with you on Plan D or Plan B...and I'm here for you...so you get all the lessons out of what has transpired...it is a loss, but not without gain, if you choose.

I do understand you like helping out people...tell me why...what does help represent to you...why is it that these people cannot help themselves?

You're going to a support class...AWESOME...very wise of you.

Figure out the time deadline on practicing and put it in the letter. You could make this a functional letter...saying these are my choices...if you want to contact me, go through MsX...send your support checks (yeah, I'm giggling) to this address without any notes...will not read, will discard any form of communication not through MsX...schedule for seeing DD will be every other weekend from Fri-Sun, and if you're not here by 7pm, then the visit is off...stuff like that, Kgirl.

None as punishment...this is all about you for you...owning your choices. See them as healing you, guiding yourself and knowing that you cannot make him do anything...follow any guideline...yet this has no bearing on you having guidelines and asking him to respect them.

Make a list of boundary enforcements. Progressive ones. Memorize them in advance...and begin the legal process. Doing all this for you in respect to your choices and his choices. No reaction to or about...this is yours for you. You want to change your life...and you're choosing to do that.

Stick with us, and we'll stick with you, 'k?

LA

It seems anytime we engage in sin we avoid God and turn the other direction and start walking away. I once heard a preacher say who had fallen into sexual addiction and was heavily in the midst of an affair that he felt like he was in he11. If you think about what he11 is, it's the absence of God. And if we live our lives without God, then yes, our lives begin to start feeling that way.

I'm sorry you are going through a tough time. I wish he would he would turn the other direction and start heading back home towards God.

Hi LA,

I would hope that if I was ever in the position where I needed help, somebody would be kind and help me.

I am going to print your post and use it for making my letter. Need ideas on things. But I hope with this class they can also help me with getting started on the legal parts if I start that. Right now, I am only concerned with ending as much contact with him as possible. I have not thought of a person yet. Still considering. I might have to just do text and brief email till we get the bills straightened out.

As for DD....I do NOT want her spending the weekend with him and her. He can have her for a weekend but not to go and stay where he is. Absolutly not. He can see her for the day or stay at a motel, but not with the OW. If they get married I will have to, but for now, I dont have to. He can email DD anytime, call her anytime before bedtime. I will let her answer the phone.

I want to be more emotionally stable. I feel like a noodle. But at the same time, I do not want to go back to the hard person I was. There has to be a happy medium. I want to be tender but also have boundries I can live with. Does that make sense?

I will post after the class.

Katie

You know, AskMe, he talks about God and praying and things, but yet it is like he really doesnt believe what he is saying. Last night in an email he said "prayed for many many years that the Lord would bring us together emotionally and spiritually as well as physically. It didn't happen, why I don't know."

I have told him and I did last night, God is trying to bring us together in all those ways, but we are not letting him. It just seems he does not want to believe the Lord answered his prayers. I feel he has thumbed his nose at the answered prayer and handed it back to God. Whether that is right or not, that is what I think about the situation.

It is like the man I knew all these years and who had faith, is gone. Its like he no longer believes any of it.
Anyway, thanks for the encouragement. I hope you will stick around and stay with me here on this thread. I value your input.

Thanks.
Katie

I'll continue to watch and pray. Let me know if you have any prayer requests. You can always email them to me if you need to.

"I do not want to go back to the hard person I was."

Tell me about this person you used to be! I wanna know. Did you do what I tend to do? When I see myself one way, I do a 180 to change? Which is still sick...just the other extreme? And finally, make my way carefully, consciously, to the 90 degrees of happy medium...realistic and authentic?

About kindness...I'm here for you, not as a kindness, but for you and my own growth. No sacrifice...it isn't hurting me to be here for you...there's a boundary line. If there's no lesson, I don't do it...because then I would be getting in the way of others' lessons, right? First, do no harm...

There is no blanket kindness (being kind to just be kind), forgiveness (because you want to be seen as forgiving); because they both negate respect and conscious awareness.

Just something to ponder while yer yonder.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm behind on you no overnight visitation and not coming to the house for visitation...you make the rules here until the court ever says otherwise. You do not want to expose your DD to an adulterous relationship or partner. Until that is over, he can't get much custody...great boundary. You go, girl!

Write your letter lovingly strong...stating how you've set this up. Really, Kgirl...just pick a neighbor or a friend from work...anyone with email and a cell phone. End the wondering...don't be embarrassed. This doesn't make anyone responsible for you, just a filter to protect you.

LA

Hi LA,

Have not written my letter yet. The class, yes I went, was good. But emotionally draining. I have just felt drained the past few days. It was good to be able to be with people who were going thru the same things. There are about 9 of us. The class leader encouraged me to go to Alanon. (You can do your happy dance in private so I cant see.) There is one on Friday at noon. One other day too but cant remember. But I will try and go.

I will answer your other questions, but not tonight. I just dont have it in me tonight.

Goodnight LA
Katie

ROFLMAO...I'm sitting here eating a cheeseburger and had just looked for your post...then I saw it. I quickly clicked and I'm chewing away until the Alanon and your commnet....I nearly choked with hilarity!!!

You have incredible humor. Do you tickle yourself? I'm really saying here, please, do, tickle yourself! Celebrate this part of you...'cuz you are amazingly funny. And I don't mean lookin'.

LA

I bet that was funny...did you spew cheeseburger thru your nose? I hear that hurts. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Cant sleep. Need to write the darn letter. WH is here today and I mean to end this TODAY. I planned it this way, so dont get all bent. I had already said he could come, have practice, catch a nap. But I intend on getting the letter together and leaving it for him. Going to go to my moms for the day. ASAP.

I think I can just have bandmate be the go between. Have WH only call on cell so I can identify him and give him or DD the phone. He can call DD anytime in the evenings but not after 10. He can see her every other weekend, but no sleepovers, no OW. I will have to work out the finances. But I know I am not going to see what he spends.

After doing a little snooping, I am pretty much resigning to Plan D. But I will see what happens with Plan b for a little while. I might find I like it and make it permanant. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Anyway, have to get DD off to school. Check in later.
Katie

This is my letter. Couldnt post earlier for comment, so here is what I am giving him. I will check in later.

My dearest WH,

This is not a letter that I want to write, but it is one that I must write. I want you to know how very much I love you and care about you. That has not changed these past years, but it is taken a beating. So in order for me to not loose all that love I still have for you, I must separate myself from you. It hurts me to much to be with you, knowing you are still with someone else.
I never dreamed this would ever happen to us. When I married you, it was for life and I thought it was the same for you. But I realize that you want to leave and I cannot hold you anymore. I have attempted to change myself, mostly for me, but for you as well. I guess I was hoping that you would see the changes, see hope and want to stay. But I cannot force you to stay. I cannot be God or the Holy Spirit. So, if you want to be free, you are free. If at some point in the future, you find that maybe you do still love me and want our marriage, I would be willing to listen. But for now, to protect myself, I need to be separate from you.

I am going to ask Bandmate to intercede between us. If there is something you need to contact me about, please contact Bandmate via my cell or his email. Or you can email DD if you are making arrangements with her. You may call DD in the evenings and weekends but not after 10pm.
You are free to see her every other weekend. But I will not allow her to sleepover. Not as long as you are not in your own place and you are not alone. Your time with her will be with you alone, no other person. Please be on time for your days with her.
As for finances, I have not gotten those things settled yet. If it is ok with you for now, I will pay the bills and we can half what is left like we did before. I would ask that you take your portion out of the bank and put it in your other account, so I don’t have to see where you spend it. I will try and make better arrangements ASAP.

As for the band, you can make arrangements with bandmate. I will allow practice to be held here, but only until these two gigs are over. Other arrangements will need to be made for practice after that. I will not be here on those days you practice.

Please know that I am not doing any of this to hurt or punish you. I love you more than you will ever know. But I must do this to protect myself and DD from more hurt. Please respect my choice and my boundry.

Take care of yourself and may God bless you.
Love always,
Katie

Edited to add....
I left this for him in his car. Saw from a distance that he got it. Don't know if he read it yet or not.

43 hours and 20 mins and no contact with WH. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Might make it another day.

Good job. Now you need to realize that Plan B is very boring. When you go to Plan B, nothing happens for days and days. It is hard to get used to after all of the drama.

But while you don't see any changes, things may be changing in his mind. You need to be very patient.

I was in Plan B for 4 months, and heard nothing from WH until he called me at work and said he was moving back into our home. I managed to keep him out, as he still did not "get it". He was still in contact with the OW.

During this time, it is important for you to stay busy, and be working on yourself. I cleaned the house spotless, painted, organized, rearranged, detailed the car, planted a garden, did volunteer work, started my own business, went out with friends, etc. That way, when you will be busy with your own life, and it will be easier not to think about him.