***Companionship is nice, but without children, it is only a useless diversion while waiting to die.***

***Children are the only thing that matter in this life. The only thing a man is good for is gathering the stuff that his family needs. When they don't need any more stuff, he can die.***

I think AD is commenting on the biological/primal/evolutionary standpoint. The words are true from that standpoint - I agree that men are instinctively attracted to young women from the reproductive aspect, even if they're really not conscious of that -- but humans are capable of putting something extra on top of this.

Even when a human family has enough "stuff", the parents are still valuable as companions and protectors to each other and as grandparents to the next generation. Grandparents are traditionally the keepers of culture and wisdom and therefore valuable that way, too.

Aw, AD, I'll bet your wife will still want you around even when she's got enough "stuff". <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Mulan

Mulan, I don't think that AD was saying what you are trying to say he said. He said it very clearly, without ambiguity.

Furthermore, his response is a "typical" response from a humanistic perspective:

"I know that it shocks many to think of it that way, but ultimately, we exist because of all the succesful strategies of our ancestors, and not necessarily because of the nice tidy theories."

From my perspective, which is opposite to humanism, we exist because God Sovereignly ordained it, regardless of what Man may think. We exist, in the ultimate sense, for God's honor and glory, not for our own desires or thoughts.

The "succesful strategies of our ancestors" presupposes that evolution is right and evolution (and survival of the fittest) is how we got here. I don't agree, but I understand his perspective because without the hope of a future life with God, there "here and now" is all that anyone has.

That's partly why I said his belief is so sad.

FH,

Read the psalms and you will find David saying pretty much what I have said here. And of course, there is Eclesiastes. Embrace the entire bible, not only your favorite parts.

Have you seen the movie "The March of the Penguins"?

No, we are not birds, and our lives have eternal meaning, but much of our life is concerned with things which are physical and simply biological.

But, conveying genes is not, in my opinion the most important thing we do. Conveying ideas, knowledge and wisdom is more important. So, a person who lives as a a teacher of children is, for example, driving down the right road.

Suzet,

Please forgive me for offending you. You know the value of your life and it is not changed by some quick posting by a stranger on the internet.

Mulan,

Yes of course, protection is one of the roles of parents and grandparents. But in our society, it is less important than in some less civilized ones. And I did not mean to say that only direct biological children were important. Adopted children, grandchildren, nieces and nephews and any other child we might help or influence in a positive way can bring deep meaning to our daily lives.


-----

My post was in the spirit of the thread starter, who asked for "blunt". Also, I can't deny that I hoped to stir some folks up. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> And... if I find myself waiting to die, I certainly would love to have a companion. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

My personal path through life included the great folly of waiting until I was 40 to marry. Other men my age are grandfathers. I may not live to see gandchildren. I'm ok with that, but I acknowledge my great error.

-AD

AD, with all due respect, I do embrace the ENTIRE Bible, not just parts of it.

But you were very specific in what you said, as the following quote shows:


There is nothing about this "view" that is biblical, unless you are referring to "twisting" what God has said IS our purpose for existence.

"Gathering stuff," to which you attest is YOUR sole view of the matter, doesn't even address "Conveying ideas, knowledge and wisdom is more important. So, a person who lives as a a teacher of children is, for example, driving down the right road."

The "road" you are driving with this "gathering stuff" idea has nothing to do with "living life as a teacher, unless you want to elevate "materialism" to be a "biblical goal."

Perhaps you need to go and reread Ecclesiates 12:9-14, from the man who was the wisest man on earth. Solomon said it better than I ever could.

I confess I am at at loss to understand your conflicting and confusing points, much less your admonition to ME to embrace all of Scripture.

Not so fast, FH. How arrogant can you get?

Speak for yourself. Do not be so presumptuous that you know what hopes others besides you "have" or aspire to have.

WAT

Oh crud!

I came across this thread about young chicks and why we ol' farts prefer them (if we do), and we're already on2 life after death stuff!!!

I was so looking forward 2 talking about young chicks on a marriage builders site! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

(apologies up front - or is it out back - for this post. I'm feeling really silly right now...

...must be gas, or something.)

-ol' 2long

Hi 2Long!

Good to see you!

You're back? I'm probably leaving now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Nothing personal, well, at least nothing to do with you LOL.

-AD

_AD_, thanks but you didn’t offend me and of course the value of my life; my personal philosophies; worth as a person etc. are not changed by the views of others. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Your post has only hit a sensitive nerve with me because of me and my H’s circumstances… That’s all. Not you fault and no need to apologize. I’m responsible for my own feelings and reactions.

You posted to Mulan:

This sound much better. With this I can agree although I might add that ANY person of ANY age (not just children) we might help or influence in a positive way can bring deep meaning to our daily lives. And IMO the most important reason why such actions bring deep meaning to our lives is because by doing so we also honor and serve God (which IMO is suppose to be the main purpose in a person's life).

Just a couple of more thoughts to throw into the think tank;

1. In terms of older men choosing younger women related to improved fertility, the life span of both men and women has changed over time. Years ago many people never lived beyond their 20s or 30s. Females can reproduce biologically as young as 10 or 11 years old (if not younger!) Obviously our particular society doesn't base "mating" by strict biological capacity.

2. While an older man can be the "leader of the pack", get the choicest women, etc. there comes a point in time where a younger male will take over. While older men can procreate, the likelihood of them being around to successfully raise their child is lessened. Their life spans are less than females.

3. My exWS(47) and his much younger OW (21) had a child who has Down Syndrome. This is often thought to be more typical when a mother is an older female. Some recent research, however, is looking at the possibility that the father's age may have an impact.

4. As far as younger women being more easily impressed, I definitely think there was some of that going on with my exWS. The longer my exWS was in Recovery, the more I came to expect of him. My exWS and his OW met at their AA meetings. My exWS said that he felt sorry for her because she had such a bad childhood, nobody who really cared about her, was never sure if she would have a roof over her head, etc. ExWS to the rescue! My exWS denies that the age of the OW was a factor in their affair. But, there are a whole lot of older women who, when early in Recovery, can be quite easily impressed with someone who manages to "just" stay clean and sober. (This is in NO way intended as an insult to women in Recovery. It's the nature of the disease of alcoholism and the destruction it causes in one's life, leaving many with nothing...starting over from scratch. I have seen men in AA take advantage of this vulnerability...13th stepping.)

5. Chicken or the egg? Male or female? I have no idea. All fetus',however, start out as female. And then there are those lovely worms who are hermaphroditic! How convenient!

6. Evolution...Creation??? I live my life as it is TODAY, the best I know how.