Hi, again! I was reading HL's thread and ran across this and wanted to share it with you also.


It added a little peace to my thinking right now, maybe it can do the same for you!

Thanks, Rin.

I will be re-reading those chapters ....
It's hard, sometimes, to not feel too defeated.

He's working tonight. I sent him an e-mail just to touch base, but did it as a reply to one of his old e-mails that he'd sent to me where he'd said all this sweet stuff ...

That might have been too much, I guess.

I think I have about a month to really do a heck of a Plan A, I expect that he'll have found a place by the end of September. So I'm going to ramp things up as high as they can go ... really make him miss it if we end up going to Plan B.

Thank you, again, AmI for my special thread...being wondered about feels like being cared for to me.

Am I confused or did your WH move out earlier this year for a short time and move back in? You and Rin might be overlapping in my mind, but I don't see it in either of your siglines.

And I like your idea of no R talk...mean conversations to know what he's thinking, feeling or believing (where you dig)...but I still advise practicing those O&H drive-bys about you, and your stuff.

What do you think?

And what about your choice of what to believe inside of you? Are you choosing to believe your WH does love you, even when he can't feel it, or not?

Mattered to me inside...caused myself a whole lot of pain, waiting on DH's decision, whether he was moving out, believing what he said, that he had let me go in his heart and didn't want to love me again...that's in retrospect, because the man stayed, went to counseling, and now says those statements came from his anger, fear and pain, not his real truth. He said it was what he coached himself, part of the fantasy...and he's still getting to how he really feels...

What you choose to believe matters in you...his current truth is his...not THE truth, 'k?

In your corner,

LA

Ok, THIS just started the waterworks for me in a huge way. Thank you for this reminder. I had chosen to believe him ... I have been taking it as THE truth. And I was starting to feel pretty sliced up and battered.

I so needed to hear this right now. Thank you.


As for moving out, no, he's never moved out. I stayed with a friend for a day after the first d-day and for a few weeks after the second D-day. But I would come home on the nights that he worked to stay with the kids, and would come over on the nights that he was home to tuck the kids in and then he and I would talk. So it wasn't really much of a separation. And he's never had to find a place for himself and the kids. Not quite as easy for him to do, since he has to consider the kids, as it was for me.

Yeah, God let me make those harmful choices to self back when, so you don't have to today...

(insert screwy humor break here...

Worth the Waterworks. Utilize your Electric Company and don't believe you have a Monopoly on pain.

...(stop lousy humor now)

Thanks for clearing up that it was you who kind of moved out, only halfway, for a month or so...and no, that much opportunity to talk wasn't much of a separation, but it was a symbol.

Might consider what that symbol meant to you...and ask, sometime later, what it meant to him.

He may be talking symbols and not know how to communicate them to you yet.

AmI...hold onto your choice of what you believe...because you are lovable, truly, thoroughly lovable...and I believed, deeply loved...and feared...and that WH fears himself...95% is his own internal stuff...struggling...and what you choose to do has influence...O&H statements, taking your own choices and knowing them, staying respectful and direct...speaking instead of disconnecting...even when you don't feel connected with...all of this is you...and you're worth it.

LA

I printed this, and the paragraph from last night about my choice of what to believe, his truth not being THE truth .... I printed them both and taped them to my monitor. I think those thoughts are going to get me through the next few weeks.

Last night, he was really short and abrupt with me when he came home from work. Usually, he tells me about his night, his cases, chats for a little bit to unwind, but not last night. He didn't speak to me at all and only grunted when I asked questions. Then he went to sleep on the couch. He's fallen asleep on the couch before, but never deliberately set out to sleep there. Last night, he made a whole little bed there, with a sheet and everything. I was really sad, but didn't go bother him or ask him to come to bed.

He's been wanting to make a "power breakfast" for the kids all week, since this is their first week back to school, but he has slept through it each time so far. Yesterday morning, I told him I'd set an alarm to make sure he got a chance to do it. So this morning I got up early and started getting everything going. When DS got up, breakfast was almost done, so I woke H up and he got to have breakfast with DS (I went to get ready for work so they could have that time, which H was really wanting). When DD got up, H ate again with her. The kids loved it, and I think he liked it, too. He was much more chatty and came in and sat next to me on the bed to watch something on the news and comment on it. Then he went back to bed (in our bed) since he'd only had a couple of hours of sleep.

I just kept trying to stay easy and happy and connected, even though he seemed not to want to be. Choosing my actions regardless of his. It was not easy, but I felt good about what I had done, about me. Still sad that he was distant, but glad that I wasn't.

Still have lots of moments of bursting into tears. I'm working from home today, though, so at least I don't have to go hide in the bathroom when it happens. At least not until he gets up.... Then I will have to get tough.

I don't see why you would hide your tears...they're yours and they're valid. Continuing on while we cry feels to me like accepting my own feelings. Knowing why I'm tear gushing is important...hiding, not so sure what that tells self...what do you think?

This isn't a performance, AmI. You are authentically you--all of yourself...the feeling proud of yourself and your changes is for you...and if you want to hide at work...you can...I didn't...and that passed, too. No long-term harm done.

Up to you...to get tough or not...I encourage you to stay as you are...seeing what really isn't yours, not your doing...his problem, his stuff. Your awareness of how much you predicate your life on his responses...that's a handful!

I see many O&H drive-bys in your day.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

LA

LMAO..."I printed them both and taped them to my monitor. "

I am so happpyyy that I'm not the only one that does this! LOL

Just a thought...hope it's not a DJ...but sleeping on the sofa, if located in the closer position to the kitchen could have just been H making sure that he got up in order to spend time with the kids...point being there can be any number of reason why he wanted to do this...

Only one thought/suggestion...perhaps youmight want to let him know that your bed was out to him, understand that's where he wanted to be for whatever reason...but offer that invitation...you know to let him know that you are still there...loving him...not matter what he does or does not do...

That unconditional love...it's a powerful thing!

...Oh, the state of Conflict...when our choices are withdrawal or intimacy...What does that say to you? I see the same thing with WH and I...

Example: WH, of course, in withdrawal from speaking to OW.
So, he goes from withdrawal to conflict. ME, well, I go from Conflict to intimacy...making that hard choice everyday...sometimes multiple times in a day...not to chose to withdraw... Only seeing that pattern last night. Laughing to myself when I realized it!

What's your pattern...it may be helpful if you see it?
Human Beings...so textbook...yet so unique and complex...

I didn't have to worry about getting tough or hiding tears ... when H woke up and saw that I was here (working from home today because our office building is having problems), he turned right around and went back in the bedroom and shut the door.

A couple of minutes later, he was dressed and leaving to go work out. Not a word to me, just to the guy he was talking to on his phone (that's who he told he was going to the gym). I just said "have fun, see you later" in the lightest, cheeriest voice I could manage. There was no response, just a slammed front door on his way out.

Guess his improved mood this morning didn't last very long. Here's something good, I'm not taking it personally. I'm surprisingly not feeling very upset or angry or hurt or really much of anything ...

Is it possible that I might actually be starting to "GET" that HIS behavior is not about me. Mine is mine, and I think I did pretty well ... nothing big. But mostly I think I did well by not getting all upset and hurt by his coldness. I have to admit, that's a new feeling for me. I had the concept in my head, but this is the first time I got it translated into my feelings. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Well, that lesson didn't last very long ...

When H got back, he had picked up a want-ad paper. I was on a conf. call, so I couldn't really talk to him much, and he just plopped down at the table and was reading it.

My heart filled with dread, and I immediately jumped to the conclusion that he was looking for places to rent.

Why did I jump to that conclusion so fast? And why was it so upsetting? I had just figured out that HIS actions were HIS. So I'm not sure why I had so much fear about this specific thing.

Anyway, I went and checked ... he was reading the hunting and gun ads, and the car parts ... totally skipped over the real estate and rental ads. And once I was off my call, he was generally cordial with me. Not overly chatty, but decent and easy. So we talked a little bit off and on between my calls, and I helped him get his uniform ready (he actually asked if I would).

So, not only did I get all worked up about this, I got all worked up about an assumption that was incorrect! Geez! I really thought I was learning these lessons better than this.

Still have lots to practice on.

-AmI

Okay, today I get to 2x4 you!

Did you learn the lesson this time? Or do you have to break your our heart a few more times?

Don't answer that...I will hear it from you in the future when I fail the test...

What's LA say?....It's a process! Sometimes a lesson needs to repeat itself because we've forgotten or failed to learn it the first time.

You'll get it! Don't be so hard on yourself! You ARE doing fabulous!

You're right, Rin ... Process, process, process.

Just when I think I'm learning to detangle, to not let his emotions or actions dictate mine ... here comes his roller-coaster and I hop right back on.

Last night was a good night. He came home around 2 and was super chatty and friendly, ate some leftovers from dinner (he never eats leftovers) because he wanted some of my cooking (?!), wanted me to watch TV with him and hang out with him, then slept in our bed with me.

That was all good stuff, so it's hard not to hop right back into the roller coaster and think "I must be ok now -- worth his time, worth being friendly to, a good person to be around, etc. -- now that he's being nice."

I'm really, really trying to get to the point of knowing, all the way down, and not just in my head, that I'm ok and worthy and everything else whether or not he's nice.

Not sure why that lesson has been so hard for me to learn...

Yeah, I think it's when they start being nice that we let our guard down and fall into those old patterns. It's so much easier when they are pissy with us to detach. I think we need to keep a certain amount of detachment until we've mastered the skill. It just seems logical to me.

Why is that lesson so hard to learn?

The payoff is marvelous...when they are nice, we are butter...we don't have to self-validate...they do it for us...when they are nice, we are good enough...feel whole and worthy...and it has been this way all our lives...

It's when they are not that our stock plummets, right? So where does that leave us when we are not being nice to them, same thing? They plummet? As long as we're nice, they're whole, in their eyes?

There's a two-way street here...and for all I state, I'm at a loss with this, as you know, right now...with FOO...only proof I have is my DH and me managed to break this pattern.

And yes, we're slipping into old due to my response to my folks, again and again....and we have to look and know this is temporary...higher rung, different view...same darn pole...

Does knowing it's not easy make it any easier?

LA

I have some questions about O&H and drive-by's.

Very often, I feel like I have nothing to say ... not sure what things I should be O&H about, really.

LA, you once said that maybe I was DJ'ing myself about this when I thought I didn't have anyting important to say. So I'm trying to watch for that .... and yesterday, you said you saw a lot of O&H drive-by oportunities for me that day.

But I just never felt like I had anything to say.

I'm not sure why that is.

I think part of it is it feels like everything is out on the table, and just waiting for him to decide now? I don't want to re-hash anything, and we don't talk about anything serious .... so I really just can't figure out what concepts or thoughts I'm not putting out there.

Rin, you're the master of drive-by's recently, how do you decide what you need to say?

I can be pretty introverted. I guess I just don't know what kind of thoughts to put out there.... and when. Maybe I'm so used to keeping everything private that I just haven't figured out how to share. I've been trying to do that honesty assignment for weeks now, and just never manage to have anyting to say, no matter how much courage I get worked up to say it.

This has been really bothering me ... anyone have samples or advice?

Thanks.

-AmI.

OKay...take my hand...one day I'll need your's!

I'm going to use this becasue this is what I get from reading your posts, if I'm wrong...please forgive me....

You've walking by the sofa, he's sitting on it...you stop and say..."Hey, I was thinking about all the work we've done and how much I love you and the kids...I really want and need our M to work...it would really make me happy." Then walk off, no mention of it again. Unless he brings it up...no expectations for him to response...just you...saying something YOU REALLY feel...heartfelt...from the bottom...be vulnerable...

or, "I really love the fact that you _________."

or "It realy concerns me that you said in MC you wanted to move out, I don't want you to go! I love you!"

Antthing that you really mean...O&H...it's not being afraid to say what you feel...what you really think...it's sincerity...it could be about you, him, kids, work, anything!

It's like WH saying to me on the phone yesterday afternoon: "I'm scare to come home!" DID you read LA reply...I just need to acknowledge that for him...listen and repeat...

It's stating it and not looking for a reply. Just getting whatever it is off your chest, just think about your chose of words before you speak. Make SURE, you don't DJ.

Oh, question: Do you do words of affirmation with DH?


I hope this helps!

Thanks, Rin.

I will definitely need to practice that a lot! It's almost embarrassing, sometimes I will sit there and think "this is the perfect chance for a drive-by .... so what do I say? Ummmmmmmm ...... not sure. How am I feeling.......? nothing in particular ....." I can sit there for several mintues and still never come up with anything. Drives me nuts and I feel very ridiculous. I'm smarter than that!

Anyway .... went to MC today. H didn't go -- he went to a friends house to help pour concrete. Not much to report on, she just asked how things had gone since last time, and I fillled her in. That's about it. She said I had done a nice job of being strong last time.

I have another apt. scheduled for next Friday. Not sure what good they are doing, but I guess since it isn't costing anything, I can keep going for now.

-AmI.

Good for you! You should go...in my eyes you are making a statement "I refuse to give up on us!"

As far as those drive-bys...I have faith...you'll get it!

When you have something to say, you'll say it!

AmI,

Been busy at work...just caught your posts.

"I have a difficult time sharing what is in me."

That's an O&H statement.

"I feel such fear and then anger. At those times, I restrain from telling you, like when you said you weren't going to work to recover our marriage. Then, when I'm calm, I don't seem to have any feelings or thoughts to share."

Those are O&H statements.

Intelligent? Yes, you are. IQ way up there. EQ? Hmmm...Emotional Quotient...being aware of your emotions, what they signal...not something that is prized or promoted, least in my experience.

From your posts..."I feel rejection when you sleep on the couch. I don't know what your intent is."

"I feel puzzled when you come to bed and when we chat."

"I won't be your friend if you end this marriage by moving out. I cherish our marriage and will fight against you to end it."

Whatever you think, feel or believe...that's sharing your thoughts. "I realize now how distancing silence can really be. I'm sorry for many times I remained silent, avoiding what I thought was conflict, when you wanted to communicate to me."

I'm throwing stuff out there...not putting words in your mouth.

"I feel confused mentally and emotionally."

Heck, I do!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Like when you met your H and shared interests..."I LOVE salami, too!" Sharing your likes, dislikes, stories from your past, what you were like as a child; jokes you thought were funny or not...

Remember that? Or do I have the wrong woman?

Knowing what you resent, what acts of love you really enjoy doing; how his arm feels to your finger tips.

Does that help?

LA

There's that amazing Mighty Mouse...can you say if for us LA please, please, please..."Here I...."

AmI...she nailed it better then I did and that's a fact...helped me too...

WOW!

Oh, BTW...Thanks you so much for your posts...if you check me out...you'll see why!