I am a longtime lurker. To make a long story short: I discovered my wife's physical affair in Oct 2005. My wife and the OM work at the same place. She indicated that it started in Sep 2005. There is no way for me to verify this. I exposed it to her to her family in Oct 2005. Her family was deeply dissapointed. Everyone at her job is aware. As a knee-jerk reaction (I was deeply hurt) I filed for divorce in Nov of 2005. My wife moved out of our home in Nov 2005. The very first day she moved out, the OM was present at her new place. I don't really want to be divorced. I don't believe that my wife wants to either. She has told me that "I want my life back, with changes". In March of 2006 she suggested that we go to counciling. I agreed. The OM has left his wife and children, and is asking my wife to marry him. I know my wife; I know she feels obligated to OM. She indicated that she does not respond to his requests for marriage; but she has lied to me before (she has indicated on two seperate occasions that she has broken up with OM, she is still seeing him). She has told me that she loves the OM. But she continues to try to hide the fact that they are still together from me. The OM has been introducing her as his girlfriend (even though my wife and I are still married). The OM has introduced my wife to his children. My wife has not introduced the OM to our(3) children; and is not introducing him to our mutual friends. My oldest is aware that my wife is cheating. I am now in the 8th month of what is an extremely sad time in my life. My wife has been taking 2-3 day trips with him; she is not aware that I know this.


I love my wife, I want to be there for her. We have been married for 15 years. I want my wife and my life back.

I don't call and ask my wife any questions, I don't hound her. I interact with her about the children, and when we go to counciling.

Question: What are the chances of reconciliation when one of the people in marriage counciling is in an affair ? She indicates that she loves me in counciling, but thinks that things will go back to the same if we reconcile (me ignoring her). We are in the second month of counciling (the counselor said it take 3-6 mos). Strangely the MC does not even mention the OM; the councilor is aware that my wife is in an affair. When I try to raise the issue of the OM making any type of reconcilliaton almost impossible, the MC switches the coversation to the reasons that we are not communicating. My wife has been in individual counciling 2 other times since this started "trying to figure things out". I believe that both times they failed becuase the OM knew that she was going to counciling. She has said that she has not told the OM that we are in counciling now. So she is willing to lie (by omission) to the OM as well. I have made many changes ... I just cant show them to her, because she spends all of her free time with OM ...and I want her to come back of her own free will..

Marriage Counselors are ironically useless while one of the spouses is in an affair. I'm suprised that your wife is even bothering attending the sessions.

You wife is also a cake eater. She's doing enough to keep you around while she maintains her boyfriend. Nice stuff, huh? Are you happy with that situation? I'd seriously make that arrangement uncomfortable for them if I were you.

Heres some things I would do:
1. Setup contact with the OM's wife and tell her some of this stuff. She will definately not like the idea of him introducing her children to their dad's girlfriend. She can be a big ally for you.

2. Continue exposing to your wife's family. Tell them what she does with him and all these secret rendezvous. It's not your job to keep their affair a secret, expose away.

3. Expose to their superiors at the workplace. Make it clear and professional and provide a bit of evidence. Make it clear to them that if they fail to deal with this, you will expose to a higher level or to other coworkers.

Yeah, your wife will be pissed. But you are wrong if you think this will push them together even more. What it does is expose their affair to the light. When they see all the people they know are frowning at them and embarrased by their actions, they begin to see the affair for what it really is.

Have you been following plan A for a while? Are you meeting her needs when you can and showing her that you are the better man?

Give the Harleys a call, they will be much more helpful than your marriage counselor. Make the first call on your own and see what Harley tells you to do.

Agree with everything sundog told you. He gave you superb advice. MC is useless while one partner is an affair as you can see. MC is for recovery, and you are not in recovery. Amazing that the MC doesn't even address the REAL PROBLEM. Try the Harley's. They will not waste your time with this foolishness and will help you with a plan to bust up the affair.

You might also want to get your hands on Surviving an Affair by Willard Harley. It will help you understand the dynamics of an affair and help you understand the tactics we recommend here. You can buy it on this website for a low price.

IN plain and simple terms.....ZERO CHANCE.........when one is in an affair. Do NOT confuse this answer with EVER having a chance.....but I was answering your question based on what you asked.

LM

UPDATE:

The advice that I have received on this board is sound. There is no hope for reconcilliation as long as an affair is ongoing. Also, the longer the affair goes on, the more resentment the BS builds. I have decided to pursue a divorce. I hired an attorney and I am sadly moving forward with the divorce. My wife has been sleeping with another man for 11 months (that I know of). The whole time she has been saying "I don't know what I want to do" or "I don't have a plan".

Everytime I try to emotionally distance myself from her (PLAN B), she finds some way to give me hope. She suggested that we go to "marriage" counseling (the whole time she had an attorney and a boyfriend). She has asked me to look for a job so that our whole family can move ... she has said that she is waiting for her boyfriend to get his kids back ... she keeps saying that she has no plan that she "wants to do what is best for our kids". She has lied to me on 3 separate occasions and said that the affair was over.

The final straw (besides all of the deception an lying, which is common in an affair), is that she is giving the OM money to help pay for his divorce and his child support, the OM is crying and saying that he "doesn't want to lose his kids", but he has just leased an apartment less than one mile away from where my wife's house is (30 miles from his kids)... that does not sound like "no plan" to me .. it sounds like they are planning to be together. In fact, I know that he has asked her to marry him. The only thing that is probably holding it back is that she still has doubts, and that our children will reject it.

I have talked with OM's wife. She does not want OM back. She has a Domestic Violence Restraining order on OM. OM cannot see any of his 3 kids unsupervised. OM's wife is also hitting OM up for massive child support. What a mess. This is the guy that my wife wants to introduce my kids to. I see nothing but dark days ahead. Of course the guy "loves" my wife... he has absolutely nothing else now...

My wife is making such incredibly bad decisions, I question why I even want to be with her. She is OM's 4th affair at their job. OM was fired from another job for sexual harrasment; now OM is begging her for money, and she is giving it to him...

She is in the throws of a classic romantic affair ... I wish that I had the strength to divorce her when I first discovered she was cheating. But I had to go through this process to make sure that there was nothing there.

My wife has told me that she intends to introduce the kids to this guy "as her friend". More dishonesty. I know my kids. They will resent it. They already know that mom is cheating.

She has deceived me so much for so long, I can't be friends with her. Incredibly, she still wants to go to counciling (she called yesterday, I ignored her call). I have always been receptive to her calls, but now I completely ignore her. I am not disrepsectful around the kids, I just understand that we are not 'friends'. How could she be so cruel? I have always made it clear that I want her to recommit to the marriage in counseling. But I have given the councilor a letter, indicating that I will not come back until she is not in an affair.

Her affair follows the description of a romantic affair to a tee. There is a good chance that her affair will fizzle out, once the children bring my wife back to reality ... but she has destroyed many relationships, and I can't see how I could ever trust her again.

Wow, how come WWs are just so lost in a fog they cant see the foolish decisions they are making?

I KNOW FOR A FACT.....*BOOKMARK IT*



Startin over said this 7/20/06.........Your EX will definately come crawling back....either soon, or after the divorce. She just has no clue right now what she is doing......it all makes sense in her head. But, I GUARANTEE YOU.....this WW will try and return. Watch.

how old are your children?

Then your chances are excellent for getting one.

Get an attorney that will rake her over the coals.

Take no prisoners.

Make sure your attorney deposes the OM. Make sure his name is on the public record as an adulterer.

Do you have legal evidence to file on the grounds of adultery? If not - wait to get it before filing. Hire a PI to do this. They know how.

Bottom line - if you choose this path - go for the jugular.

WAT

If you had done this, you might have regretted not trying harder to save your marriage. At least you've made a solid attempt to make your marriage work. The only thing left -- if you wanted things to work out -- would be to wait for the burnout and pick up the pieces.

My DS's 14, 12, 10 ... I have no intention of "raking her over the coals". I want my children to have a connection with their mother.

Then why divorce her?

Sucka - you fell right into my trap.

There is no such thing as a nice divorce.

EVEN IF you didn't set out to rake her over the coals - that's the way she would portray it.

You want you kids to "have a connection with their mother"? Then get your a$$ in gear and fight for your family.

Be a Dad.

Don't be a selfish cad.

Pal, make a decision for YOU to have a connection with your children. A REAL connection. Show them what a "family" means and don't surrender because it's hard or your pride is hurt.

Get it?

WAT

I understand worthatry. I know that my wifes plan with her boyfriend royally screws my family. I will fight for them. I just want to make sure that my children are kept out of the line of fire.

Her affair is about her state of mind. She is making horrible decisions. I don't intend for a second to let her make those same types of decisions for my children.

When I said that "we can't be friends". I understand exactly what that means. In fact, she has made it worse by stringing me out for so long.

Good.

Your kids are already, unfortunately, adversely affected. All you can do is minimize the bad effect - to the best of your ability.

Many of us have been where you are.

It is gut wrenching ugly, ugly, ugly.

Be the best Dad you can be and do everything in your power to preserve the family.

"Can't be friends" is OK. I am no where close to being friends with my XW. Being friends with an unrepentent adulterer is dishonest. Pretending that everything is over and done with and hunky dorry sends the exact wrong message to kids, IMHO.

You may not win in preserving the family.

But you cannot lose doing everything in your power to preserve it and allowing HER to make all the decisions and take all the actions to end it. Don't make it easier for her.

She made the decision to have an affair, she made the decision to move out. She's making the decisions to dissolve the family. Allow HER to file for divorce when she's ready and allow HER to make it happen. All the while you make it clear a divorce is NOT what you want and is NOT necessary. In the end, you cannot stop her. But what you can do is make it all her doing. In this end, you exit guilt free. It's ALL on her shoulders. You don't lose - she does. Make sense?

WAT

UPDATE (long) :

There has been alot going on since my last post.

She tried to introduce OM to her mom, sister, brother. Her brother threatened the OM. They all dislike OM. OM still stuck around. It probably had a negative effect. Now OM can say "see your brother threatened me and I am still here ... I love you.." What a load of crap.


I essentially went into Plan B mode. I went dark ... very dark .. I didn't return any of her calls. I didn't communicate with any of our mutual friends or her relatives. During this time, I have gotten stronger.


When we exchanged the kids (we exchange them on a weekly basis), I hugged the children, told them goodbye and that I loved them and would always be there for them BEFORE I took them over to my WW's place. I then dropped them off, and pretty much left without seeing or having any interaction with my WW. For those that are curious, I think that these methods constitute a true plan B.


When she dropped the kids off by me, I kept my shutters in the front of my house closed and my front door open. I did not go outside. I even left my vehicle parked in front of the driveway so she could not park there.


I reduced the amount of calls to her when she has the children to 2 times a week maxiumum (this kills me). I do not call her cell phone. I do not leave messages. When she called me I NEVER picked the phone up. I simply let it go to voicemail. If she left no voicemail, it means she had nothing important to say. This is a complete flip for me, I used to answer her every call.


Her affair with her co-worker has been going on for 11 months that I know of now.


I started a real PLAN B. I gave the counselor a letter indicating that I would not return to counseling. I stated that no reconcilliation can occur as long as my wife is in the affair. I said that that the affair was the real problem that we never talked about. I then listed what I understand to be stopping us from working things out. I gave him this letter with the hope that she would continue counseling (I didn't ask her to continue, I acted as if I didn't care, when she called on counseling day I ignored her call). As it turns out she continued counciling.

I have had NO CONTACT with her since 7/18/06, only about 3 weeks.


Last night, she shows up at my house. Apparently the OM left flowers for her on her front door. This did not go over well with the kids. My youngest said that he was going to beat the OM up. My oldest said he would 'destroy him'. My middle guy simply said nothing and would ignore my WW. OM thinks since I have not talked with the WW, that the coast is clear. He is trying to assert himself.


She came to my house and said "we are going to talk to our kids about our problems that caused this".. .... Huh ? ....


I immediately told her that we would not have that type of conversation in front of the children. She would be welcome to tell them whatever she wants. I told her that they are smart and that they know the truth.


I wanted to tell her to leave, and that I did not want to talk with her, but we ended up talking for about 3 hours. I took her out of the house (left the kids) inside. Some of the things we talked about (besides light banter about the kids):


I told her that at the very least, it was disrepsectful for the OM to leave flowers for her knowing that the kids would see it. (She agreed) As far as the kids know, their mommy is still married. I said that he is not respecting anyones boundaries. I also told her that he would not do it unless he was getting the "go signal" from her.


I then talked with her (using MB pricipals) in a sure even tone and told her that she sabotaged our counseling session by working and resolving some of our issues, then she would undo what we fixed by going on mini-vacations with OM. She agreed. I told her that I am not doing that any more; that is why I am not going to counseling.


She said that she wishes that she had a "reset button". For the first time, I told her that that was a load of bull. (Plan B cajones). I told her that she was strong. I told her that I want to preserve my family, and that I did not care what friends or relatives thought. She left me (after 17 years). If she wanted to she could leave the OM.


She said again that "she wants OM to get his kids back" (she feels responsible). I told her that that is an arbitrary goal that she has set, and that that is another load of bull. Again, she agreed with me. I absolutely did not allow her to make any justification for staying in her affair. I told her that she was one of multiple affairs that the OM has had at his workplace, and whether or not he keeps his kids has no bearing on us preserving our family.


She says that she has fears that her relationship with OM wont work, and letting me in (even if only so slightly) is a good thing because it starts to turn the flashlight onto her relationship. For months she has been telling this guy about our relationship, so he has had a flashlight on our relationship. Everything that my wife says that I did wrong, he simply did the opposite. But guess what ? I am so dark now, he has to make it on his own.


She asked me if I was going out and seeing other people, said she doesn't want to lose me to someone else, becuase that person would get the benefits of the changed and improved me. I told her that I was focused on preserving my family until the day we get divorced. She also said that she understands that she will slip in the eyes of the children if she introduces them to this guy.


She told me that he moved into the neighborhood, and has been asking to move in with her. She told me that they have been talking about "being together forever". This is a breakthrough in our relationship. She has been guarding their secrets for months...


She said that she fears that the children will think less of her if she introduces the OM. I said that they probably will. I then told her that if and when the children ask
me about OM, I am going to tell them the truth. I am going to be brutally honest with them. As far as I am concerned OM is a threat to their well-being. I told her that the children have never met OM. There is no reason to believe that they can't come back from this.


I told her that she has been letting her emotions make all of the decisions for her. I told her that her relationship with the OM has destroyed her relationship with me, has changed her relationship with her parents, and now threatens to destroy the relationship with the children. I told her that it was disrepectful for him to be leaving her flowers, as far as the children are concerned, she is still married. I have been careful not to tell her to leave the OM. I just placed the burden of the divorce on her shoulders. She will make her own decision. I am aware that you cant 'force' people in an affair to separate.



At the end of the conversation, she said that this kind of interaction is what she wanted. I told her that this intamacy is what I want to. I said that one of the things
that counseling did was allow us to open up to each other. I told her that the marriage does not have to end. I want to preserve the marriage, but I am not going to put up with what has been going on for the last 11 months.


She then told me that I was a good dad. (Huh?) She says that I am a better dad now .. she wishes I was like this in the marriage ... (pure fog talk)


I also told her that I take 50% of the blame for the problems in the Marriage, but that I take absolutely no blame for her affair. I said that the affair is 100% hers. She agreed. Another milestone.


I asked her to "Plan with me to preserve the marriage". She talked, but no plans were set in place. I told her at a minimum she would have to:

1) Stop all contact with OM
2) Leave her job
3) We would continue counseling
4) Eventually include the children in counseling (to heal)


She is still in a fog, she may be slightly coming out becuase I Plan B'd her. I have no idea where this will go, but the divorce proceedings continue. I know that you can't really reason with someone in a fog... but I hope that at least some things stick. I know that she is aware that introducing him to our children will have negative consequeces for the kids as well as for her.


I told her that at this stage actions speak louder than words. I told her that I respect her and that I think that she is incredibly strong. I told her that I knew that she
would do what is best for her, and that if she wanted to stop her relationship with the OM she could. I told her that I have seen an attorney, and that the attorney said that we would both lose; but that I was going to take my attorneys advice.

I also told her that I will always be there for my children.

After this I carried the kids to the car (two of them were asleep); and she left. We hardly even talked about those flowers. The OM is a manipulative ******.


I am particularly interested in what WAT and StartinOver think of this situation. StartinOver is this what you meant when you said that the WW will try to come back ? WAT, what do you think ? I am going back into a deep, deep Plan B. I want NO contact. Divorce proceedings continue.

Any advice you guys have would be welcome.

Patience01

Good to hear from you Patience.......yeah, this is just the start of what I was talking about. The more you act like you dont care (or with enough time really dont care).....the more the waywards want to come back. In my situation that didnt happen until after I stopped all contact with my EX (except for getting kids on my days), my EX handed me divorce papers to sign, I met someone else, fell in love with her and married. THEN!!!! her fog lifted, and she realized that she lost her family and life. Hopefully, with your continued plan B....she will WAKE UP and rush back home and work on her marriage.

It sounds like this guy is a piece of work.......4 affairs at the same job??? I guarantee you, he would break your Ws heart eventually. There is no doubt about it.

Hey, Patience, I'm not WAT, but if I may --

It sounds like you've got it down solid. The only thing I'd recommend would be to put all you said in writing and send it to her. It's officially Plan B when you send the letter.

If you hear from her again, but your conditions have not been met, just end the contact and send the letter again.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

Are you sure you want the divorce to go through? You don't have to do that, you know.
Mulan

Yes, when I mention this to my wife she tells me: "At least he is honest to me and admits them. OM tells me that he doesn't want to do that anymore.. he has found true love with me (my WW)"

It makes me question why I would want to be with someone who is so easily manipulated.

Thanks for the input, all input is welcome. Yes. I am sure it is time for D for me. It has been 11 months of indecision. 11 months of the same excuses. 11 months of WW riding the fence.

I am beginning to not like being around her. This relationship of hers sends the wrong message to my children about marriage.

I believe that she will eventually pull her head out, but it may be too late.

This is the point I reached......by the time she handed me the divorce papers to sign, I was ready. I didnt love her anymore (i didnt want anything to happen to her) but, I the thought of touching her again made my skin crawl. Its weird how it got that way, especially after being together for 16yrs, but I guess just too much time with OM and all that made her iky to me....LOL. I guess thats a good way to say it.

Patience,

Dude!!
""She does not want OM back. She has a Domestic Violence Restraining order on OM. OM cannot see any of his 3 kids unsupervised.""

DOES SHE KNOW ABOUT THIS!?!? Not good, my friend!

Next time you see her, check close for bruises.

""It makes me question why I would want to be with someone who is so easily manipulated.""

You and the rest of us here in the halls of MB.

EDITED to read: Yeah, that too is pretty IKY!

krk