i feel a bit foolish thinking that i was the only person in the world hurting over the betrayal by my WW. Its good to find many men with STRONG hearts and STRONG morals to stand up and be counted.

My love and prayers go with you . i just have 1 child (5 years) and i am being blamed for everything going wrong in my marriage.(SOP).

Crying, Anger and living like a eunoch.(ARRGGGG). but i see hope in your outcome.

Pray she comes to her senses and love you for who you are and what you have become.

God go with you.

This OM is smarter than that. He is an angel around her. I have talked with OM'w wife, she says that he has changed the type of music he listens to, got an ear-ring, changed his hair-style... he is making sure to do everything to please my wife. OM's wife also says that he acts and talks differently ...

OM understands that his wife does not want him back. He gets an instant wife and family by sticking to my WW.

Thanks for the kind words. I have to admit, I am not as optimistic as you. Since my last update, I have not heard a word from WW. Looks like she got the reasurrance that I was still interested, and she went right back up on the fence .. so the D continues.

Question:

How do you respond when WW says:

"Too much has happened..."


This is something that WW says repeatedly ....

bump

UPDATE:

NC in affect. WW comes over house to get "some clothes" for DS. This is after I tell her do not come by without calling. WW asks me why I do not come to MC. I tell her that I will not come as long as she is involved in a relationship with OM.

I ask WW if she is happy with her new relationship. WW says that "there are some things about it that I don't like" .. WW does not go into detail, I do not ask. WW says again "I wish I had a reset button" ... I pretty much ignore this from WW now ...

WW tried to call OM's soon to be ex wife, so that OM can "see his kids" and she says "end the relationship" ... OM's wife hung up the phone ... OM's wife is not interested ...

I tell WW that my attorney has been trying to set a date for a conference with her attorney, for a four way conversation. Today my attorney calls and says that it should be set by end of this month, but my WW's attorney has pushed it out to the last month of September.

I know that the MB priciple is to let the WS do all of the work, but my WW seems to be extending this thing out ... should I just sit back and let my WW's attorney call the shots on the dates ? Or should I expedite ... I don't think my WW is even aware of what she is going to lose yet, I also don't see myself taking any kind of financial hit for this ...

UPDATE:

I spoke with the WW on Sunday. I have been in strict NC since Aug 23. I had to speak to her about the giving her half the equity in the house. She has not indicated to her lawyer, if she wants to allow me to buy her out of the home. My lawyer indicated that we could save some money if I spoke with her and asked her to move on this issue. I planned it out, it was supposed to be a 10 minute conversation at best. We talkd for 7-1/2 hours.

She seems to be coming out of her fog... but I will leave that to the experts to figure out. My feelings for her are still too strong. She tried to break the NC a few times by calling with an "emergency" for the children, I disregared them all. During these "emergencies", the children were acting out because she tried to introduce the OM. I did not LB, I just listened. In our conversation, she opened up and told me the following:

- She understands that it will be a problem introducing the kids to the OM. She has tried all together 1 at a time, my children have all rejected the OM. This is after 14 months in an affair, the children still have not formally met the OM.

- She says that OM tries to get her to spend time with him and his kids. She says that she does not do that. Even going so far as to say that the OM's kids are high strung and that one of them is slow..

- She says that she feels "trapped". OM has paid down on a house and has asked my WW to help pay down on it. WW has refused to do so (first clear headed thing). Not to mention, both OM & my WW are still technically married to other people.

- She says that he talks as if it is a forgone conclusion that they are going to get married. I told her that she is leading him on by not being decisive.

- She says that "The OM and I haven't had an arguement in 14 months ... Isn't that strange ? When I disagree with him, he backs down". I told her that it is a form of manipulation.

- She told me about various trips they have taken. I just listened. I did not criticize. I have it on good authority that the trip taking has slowed down alot.

- She says that he has his own key to her place, and basically lives with her when the children are with me. (She carefully cleans up and indication that he has been there, before the kids come back.)

- I asked her "Do you love me" ? Without hesitation, she says "I love you" even going so far as to say that we would "definitely be back together if not for the situation that she is in"

- She says that "I feel trapped. I don't know how to end it." I asked her if the OM is going to cry, she said yes. I said "he will get over it." I said that that is part of the price he will pay for getting into a relationship with someone who is married.

- She told me that initially she wanted to "use the OM" (??? fog talk)

- She said that she feels as if her life is paused.

- She told me that she feels as if I hate her for what she has done, becuase I wont respond to her phone calls. I told her that I do not hate her. That the world does not revolve around her. I told her that I am hurt by this and I have my own life now. I even told her that I have been going to a few nightclubs.

- I told her that OM's wife does not want OM back, that OM is an emotional leech, and that OM does not care if their relationship destroys her relationship with her kids. The fact is that OM does not want to argue, because he has nothing else.

She asked me how could it work between us. She feels that she need to have financial security. I reeiterated my boundaries. There has to be NC with the OM. She has to leave her job, and find a new place to live. (Not back at our home) We would have to attend MC.

I told her that there is no cosmic force pushing her along and that these are choices that she is making about her life and for her children. She agreed.


This is unusual, and it is a turning of the one-way mirror, so that I can see into their relationship. She said that she does not talk about what we talk about with the OM. I find that hard to believe. She said that she is not happy. This is only second "serious" relationship that my WW has been in. OM is a known adulterer at her work, he has been in a few relationships, he knows how to manipulate.

If this occurs again what questions should I be asking ? Or should I just let her talk.

The OM is a true snake. When I was talking to my WW in my car, in about hour 6, I saw his vehicle pull up to the end of her block, stop for a few seconds, then do a u-turn and hightail it out of there. My WW turned her cell-phone off (their method of contact for cheating). I guess he wanted to know why she wasn't responding.

I just chuckled to myself... what kind of "Man" does this ? After 14 months of being with a woman, you are still running from her husband .. wow ...

In the end, I did not ask her to come back. I never told her that I loved her. I asked her to contact the attorney with her decision about the home. She left my vehicle and said "I have alot to think about". The divorce proceeding continues. I am going back into strict NC. This happened on Sunday, it's Tuesday and she has not contacted her attorney.

Did I make a mistake by talking to her ? It seems to me that she is definitely questioning her own decisions. I would like some advice on how to proceed.

Hi P!

I've read your thread and am sorry you find yourself in this situation as many of us BS's can realate to what you are going thorough.

You have been given some excellent advice here from some of the best so what I'm going to tell you is not much different.

After reading about your WW and OM it is pretty clear to me that this A is dying and OM is slowly self destructing. He is a needy, manipulative, selfish liar who persues married woman. This is not a foundation for a strong a loving R. This R will die...I can feel by your description of it. Your kids hate him and that will surely swing the balance in your favour as the tensions there are unresolveable.

Now you must step back and let it die...let him continue to reveal the REAL slimeball he is. Your WW is slowly seeing this and she also sees her H who has become stronger and doesn't LB anymore. You are becoming the attractive one.

Did you send her a Plan B letter? If not I would prepare one and send it to her and then do a REAL Plan B with absolutely NO contact...NOTHING! Let OM try to meet ALL her EN's. He will fail as he cannot possibly meet them. It sounds like one of her EN is FINACIAL SUPPORT so go into Plan B and cut off everything.

If you continue to have any contact with her you will loose the remaining love you have for her...trust me here. Everytime you hear she is with OM it drains your $LB so that is why Plan is requied to protect the remaining love you have for your WW.

If you want your old W back then write her a Plam B letter and then go VERY DARK. As a good friend of mine on MB would say..."let her choke on your Plan B".

She sounds like she wants to cake eat so take the cake away and go into Plan B.

In some of your earlier posts you told your WW that you "respect" and think of her as "strong". Do you really feel this way? I know I said the same things about my WW, but looking back I couldn't possibly feel that way about her since I cannot respect a liar and cheat. And having an A is not showing strength...it is a sign of weakness and I say this becasue I came very close to having my own A.

Only say what you mean and don't say things to make her "feel" better as she will see right through you.

I wish you the best.

HTW

WOW. I just finished reading this entire thread and as a WW who's deep in the withdrawl phase (EA & PA for 15 mos), I can say that reading it lifted my fog. I can't believe I was so close to ruining every relationship that is valuable to me. This woman could have been me if I continued riding on the path I was on. I printed out the Emotional Needs questionnaire and H and I plan on reviewing this weekend. Again, after reading this thread, I feel like I dodged a bullet. Thanks for sharing your story. I can't wait to get home and get started on repairing my marriage!

HTW, I agree with this advice. Thanks. I was trying to reason with her and show her that I am not coming from a place of anger or retribution. You are correct, her affair is a sign of weakness. You simply cannot reason with anyone in the fog. I wanted her to realise that I cared about her, but telling her that was an error.

HTW, I appreciate your response. I have read your thread and know that you follow the MB principles. I have already given a NC letter, and my plan B is DARK. I intend to keep it that way. The only reason I spoke with her was for moving the D process forward. I do not support her financially. I also agree that it seems that their relationship is going through some changes ... It is always helpful to have an extra set of experienced eyes comment.

Her biggest problem now, besides her doubts about never fighting with the OM, is the fact that the children are rejecting OM. Now all of the promises that they were making to each other ring hollow. They were made in a fantasy land where neither of them had children. She wants me to assist in the break-up of my marriage. She won't get that from me.

It is 14 months in... I believe that she will have to hit rock bottom to wake up. She is a true cake eater. Her affair is a classic romantic affair, and she is showing signs of waking ... but I won't be fooled into thinking that by being her 'friend' that anything will change. It is back to a DARK Plan B. The D continues.

I am glad that this is helpful to you. Was your affair a Romantic Affair ? What made you decide to stop the PA ? Did your husband use the MB principles ?

Best wishes to you and your family. Recovery will be difficult, but worth it. Embrace honesty.

Oh My God! I think you just wrote thread for me and my now Ex WW. She and we had it all....were living the "dream".

She goes to work full time for the first time in about 3 years (after having our son 7 months earlier) and gets into an affair with man 23 years older than she, with OCD disorder, genital herpes, 15 documented (deposition) sexual affairs (all but two with nurses with whom he has worked), 2 failed marriages, bankrupt although making 6 figures, 5 proposals of marriage to 5 different affair parnters (including one proposal just six months before the A w/ my EX WW), physically unattractive, not personable, doesn't get to see his grandchildren and his kids excepting one who leeches off him will not speak with him, and much, much more. His wife is taking him for everything he has left.

People that know us and her just shook their heads and couldn't believe it. I thought she would eventually wake up, get out of the fog. I tried everything,,, MB principles and more to get her to see what she was doing to no avail. Then one morning I looked at her and while she looked familiar I no longer knew the woman in front of me. I decided there and then it was up to me to protect our son and that's what I did, filing for D and ultimately winning custody of our son.

She is still with this loser and no one can believe it. I think she intends to marry him once he's divorced even though she knows everything about him (much like your wife). There will never be an explanation that I can understand that will explain this, never. I had to accept this in order to start moving forward. I hope your situation turns out better but God the fog is really thick when these women (could be men too) find these losers they find and choose to be with them no matter the loss or pain to themselves or others. God bless.

UPDATE:

I believe that it was a mistake to even speak with my WW, breaking my NC. The only thing that it did was stroked her ego. She still has not contacted her attorney to move the case forward. I will have to sit tight and wait for her to agree to the buyout so as not to incur the costs of a trial.

Before she left my vehicle when we had the long talk, she indicated that she would call me at a specified time to "work things out". She didn't call at the specified time. That was a major LoveBank withdrawl to me.

She has called 3 times over the last few days. I think because we talked, she hoped that she put me into the "friend" zone. I ignored all of her recent calls. Yesterday my youngest called me and said that she drove them by a house that the OM & her are buying, the house is under construction. (My WW has not put any money down on it). My youngest told her that he does not want to go. My wife told my youngest that she will miss him ...

My children have not met OM. When my wife talks about OM she does it when my oldest is not around. My oldest has told her on multiple occasions that he is not moving with her.


My wife has said she feels "trapped", and that she "has no plan". It sure looks like she has a plan to me ... she is in the grips of a romantic affair. Everything that she has said to me is to get me to "understand her" or "be on her side". She has to hit rock bottom to make any kind of change in direction. She is ignoring or glossing over all of the signposts that says that she will have major problems heading in the direction she is headed in.

Essentially she is talking about marrying and moving in with OM to my children, who are fully aware that she is still married ... that is pretty stupid ... if it wasn't so sad I would laugh. Then she has the nerve to tell me that the children "don't respect her".

I am back in a DARK Plan B. I feel sorry for my children, that is the only thing that bothers me now.

I can't get over how much your WW sounds like my EX WW. Marching right along to the electric chair humming a show tune. Everyone (save for a couple of idiot, immoral friends who cheat themselves) is yelling run the other way and she's walking as fast as she can to get to the electric chair.

Her telling your youngest she's going to miss them is on the brink of going too far. When mine started to hurt the children with words, actions, and worse yet by introducing them to this lunatic she's with that's when I had had enough.

You hang in there and if you go dark go lights out dark. Do you have a temporary custody order? Are you seeking one? Can you keep WW from having OM around them?

God bless.

Yes .. I agree .. It is borderline emotional abuse. I will have to listen carefully to what the children say .. I will make note of it


I am already back in lights-out mode ... We determined 50/50 custody in the very beginning ... I am doing research to see if I can at least get a "cooling off period" ...

How are you doing Patience?

UPDATE: Month 21

An update for all interested.

Divorce finalized 4/2007. I should have pushed to have it done sooner. My oldest now essentially has no contact with his Mother. The oldest lives with me full time. My Ex-Wife and her boyfriend are now paying out $6300 a month in child support & Alimony to their respective ex-families. This is a direct result of them both running out on their families.

I fought for my children. I have the younger two 85% of the time. She sees them every other weekend. The two younger dislike the "fiance" and the middle-child has already asked to come and live with me full time; that is another fight that is coming soon.

WAT was correct. When you make the decision to divorce, you must go for the jugular. I am better off for it, my children are better off for it. My ex-wife made the decision to dissolve the marriage. I simply responded.

On a personal note, I am doing very well. The only thing that hurts now is the attorney's fees. I do not speak with the ex-wife. I only transfer information about the children through very dry business-like letters. This method has ensured that my children remain safe and out of the way of any bickering.

On a funny note. Ex-Wife and "fiance" bought a house together. She has been calling the guy her "fiance" for over a year now, I wish that they would just go ahead and tie the knot. She cant lose my last name fast enough. The house has already depreciated in value and they cannot afford it, so they have moved in her "fiance's" friend to help pay the mortgage. Wow... what a mess.