LA,

Mr. Creepy LOL, fake daddy is happily residing in the den, I wish I had a digital camera to take a pic of this thing for ya'll. The girls showed fake daddy to my sister tonight and she just about fell over.

Ok, so WH has slept with maybe a dozen women since our wedding day, I have slept with two men. I win-he looses.

I am getting alot better about the shame thing. It still bothers people when I use a harsh term for my former behavior, but I am comfortable with calling it what it was.

I am sorry, I just don't believe for a minute, WH's whole "I realized after rolling off of OW that I never truly forgave you." There is still no logical reason why he climbed aboard in the first place.

But it is OK, next week there will be a different excuse. His list is getting quite amusing.

I guess it just makes me think, does the BS ever really get over it? My sister is a BS and she has realized that there are still things she does after 7 years, that are by products of her husbands A. And her husband never left, he stayed and she yelled and cried and cried and yelled and he just kept right on staying.

The day after D-day, my WH came home with a list of things that were wrong with me. What I read, what I think about, not being a party animal, he even had issue with my choice of feminine hygeine products (something that I just don't need his input on).

Oh well.

I believe every BS has the ability to get past an A. I believe the key is breaking the enmeshment which existed prior to the A...that "you made me" "you caused me" "you cured me" belief.

I believe betrayal can feed you, nourish you in destructive ways...unless you love yourself more, choose wisely and grow a whole lot...owning you can only heal yourself, all the way, matters.

I know that list you speak of...a lot of that stuff resides in your mind...to show you how unreasonable...and cast doubt...at the same time.

You're still enmeshed, Jean. You are. Measuring you by him by you...his A's (my words, not yours) were about him...his choice...no different than yours. I think THAT betrayal is the one that can break the enmeshment or decimate the BS forever...their choice.

Feeling erased by betrayal is still our choice, ultimately...because we cannot be erased by anyone. Not in God's design...unless we choose to believe that, live it and be erased by it.

People fear living whole and separate...equal...because if they can't be erased by their partner, then they can't erase their partner. Then where is the love, they ask? How can you live that way?

Living in Freedom is scary for those who live through their partners...living with true responsibility and freedom of choice is scary...heck, living at all is scary. Making Love your choice gets you all three realities...being respectful of your partner gives you those three freedoms...and love like air, always around you, accessible, heady at times with a lovely scent, and steady...abundant supply.

There's another way to love than you know, Jean. I'm praying you will know it...and stop choosing to emotionally cut, so you can still see you bleed.

(((((Jean))))))

LA

This is so scary true, it made me cry.

I hope I am not that wrapped up in WH still. I hope that most of my problem is my obsessive thinking. I have intellectually become comfortable with the theory that WH has just absolutely lost his mind. The A is one thing, but his subsequent behavior-WOW.

Just between you and I (and the rest of the internet world), I am starting a new medication to try and give my mental hamsters a little nap. My thought process tends to get very manic-y and I am absolutely exhausted. I am trying to come up with new stuff to obsess about because I bore myself with all this dissecting crap.

So today, I acquired a food grade 55 gallon drum. This pleases me more than you can imagine. Now I can think of things to do with it and all the future drums I can get now that I have a source. My brain is so very, very twisted.

I also pulled all the ripped liner out of my old pond. I now have a nice blank hole in the ground. I may get out the shovel and make it bigger this time.

And when I get really out of focus, I pull out my recent credit report and research FICO's, interest rates and debt ratios - that makes me feel hopeful, motivated and comfortable with being a grown up.

So if I start getting weird, it is just the new meds, I am afraid I am going to miss my brain - it sure keeps me busy. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Jean,

You overachiever! LOL

Hey, I've done the FICO stuff...believe me.

I want you to obsess on you...in a great way. I want you with every shoveful to tell yourself something true about you...

Talk about the hamsters coming to a sudden halt.

Doh?

Yes, this DJ happens to be true: "So today, I acquired a food grade 55 gallon drum. This pleases me more than you can imagine."

How can you not celebrate you?

All I can think to do with it is beat it with a broomstick, to hear the echo roar around me.

That's it.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

And I had a blip of a DJ when I read that line...I thought you might USE the drum as a hamster wheel, simulated fullsize, and run around in it somehow.

I would still give you kudos for creativity.

Look how much you care about yourself! Your brain is worth missing...and it's been gone into distraction land for awhile...and you want me looking out for weirdness? Isn't that like asking the cat to hold the canary?

LA

LA,
Was that really a DJ (the 55g drum remark)? I am asking so I can work on my social skills. I really assume that the things that I am interested in, no one else cares about. So I preface my excitement with a disclaimer such as "Humor me and act excited".

And using the drum as a large hamster wheel is a great idea!

I was talking to an old friend of mine recently. I confessed one of my secret weird things (the kind of thing that drove WH crazy). Turns out my friend has the same hobby! And he looks perfectly normal. So it made me think that maybe WH is the true weirdo. I stifle my true self so I will not offend WH. Turns out, that made me a pretty boring person. Now that I don't have to accomdate WH anymore, people think I am much more interesting.

H actually admitted that he was more attracted to me when I was in the relationship with FOM. I was more alive and he liked that. But when H and I are together, I have to keep a low profile, my true self bothers him close up. He only likes me from a distance.

But when H and I are together, I have to keep a low profile, my true self bothers him close up. He only likes me from a distance.

Now that is a DJ!

LOL

Well then there you go. If your true self bothers him close up what do you have.

I want to go back to the original topic about Pardon Revoked because it has been on my mind a lot. I truly think at some point I might make the same decesion as your WH. I know it is wrong etc. I also think I will never make the decesion. I never even considered an A before my FWW had hers. I now wonder why I shouldn't sometimes.

As a rational person I couldn't understand why I would think like that and for me I figured it out. They always say the first A is the hardest for a person. Once they do it once it is not like they are doing anything they haven't done before. The positives of the A outweighed the negatives in the WS mind. In other words they could live with themselves after the A.

Now for me I think to myself maybe this monogamy thing is overrated. I can tell you from where I am I passed on some really good opportunities to have an A before my FWW had hers. That was one of the things that bothered me the most. I even said to her one time "if I knew we had an open M I would have certainly taken advantage of those situations". Her A happened the very first time she really had an opportunity to have one. I had passed on several at that point.(I used to do some moderate travel where the opportunity presented itself)

Now I understand a M can survive after an A. Why shouldn't I indulge myself. I know that after I have an A it is going to be my FWW's mission to win me back. It is my opportunity to point out all of the things she does that bothers me and have her really try to correct those issues. I will essentially get more out of our relationship from her because I had an A. HMMM whats the down side here. I will feel bad about my actions? Sure but being rational it seems like for her the good outweighed the bad. I busted my a$$ to get her back and keep her. I changed the things that bothered her. This sounds pretty darn good to me.

With that being said I don't think I ever will. I don't think I could ever live with myself for doing that. I personally don't think I could look at my FWW in pain like that. The picture I keep in my mind is how I felt that day and I would never want to see my FWW in that picture.

So maybe (not making excuses or justifications for your H) he wanted what he gave you but is unwilling to give what you gave him when your A ended.

Jean,

"I really assume that the things that I am interested in, no one else cares about. So I preface my excitement with a disclaimer such as "Humor me and act excited"."

I'm pointing them out because they aren't actions...they are beliefs...which seem invisible...so I spot them. Honestly, no judgment. When you assume, you DJ. When you mindread, you DJ. That's how I began to ferret out these pesky beliefs...like I'm weird, no one is interested in what I am...so I pre-judge and preface my excitement "Humor me and act excited."

That kind of control level drains natural joy. You'll doubt sincerity and delighted responses...or assume only negative ones...DJs make you a victim of your own self.

I am fascinated by your creativity, your marvelous mind...if you're interested in 55-gallon drums, then I just have to know why...because you have shared yourself here...you choose to connect, and there is no fake humor, only true interest and admiration...see, don't block me from it. Don't assume the worst as some twisted protection...live open...the unknown is in that drum...live free.

DJ's are judgments...your penchant to label, which is linked to your compulsive judgment of right and wrong...is disabling your power...please consider stopping. You've been rewarded in your life for self-deprecation, a belief that if you share your worst parts and people stick around, then that's love...and if you share your best parts, then they will put you down...

Be you, Jean...for you. Stop judging. Decrease judgment increases acceptance.

WH couldn't make you be boring or anything...your choice. Your choice to hide your self, change your self-image, acquiesce and conform...you chose to be responsible for what was only his...and because you made that choice, you got the balance you craved...that he was responsible for what was only yours...your thoughts, feelings and beliefs.

Time to choose differently. You're human. You are MAHVELOUS!

"I have to keep a low profile, my true self bothers him close up. He only likes me from a distance." See how much you cut with DJing WH and yourself?

Maybe the reconciliation was toxic...all the great feelings packaged into the old marriage...maybe this is how things sometimes have to be broken into tiny bits to become cathedrals...

Ya never know.

I want to be along to see you build yours...beginning with that precious chapel in your self. A privilege to be near...unless you're DJing...EEEWWWWEEEEE!

LOL

LA

Hurtingless, I am going to have to reread your post, I am on my way out, but I am very interested in what you are saying.

Eagle and LA,
Is it a DJ if it is true? My H has even told me as much. He really was attracted to who I was when I was with FOM. After his D-day, he made a list of things he likes about me and the things that he doesn't like about me. The things that bother him are the same things that were amplified when I was with FOM. Except being introverted, WH doesn't like that and I become more introverted around him.

I thought, maybe I screwed up by stifling who I am when I am with WH. But, who I am is who he really doesn't like close up. He likes that person from a distance.

Now, I can see how that thinking is a DJ with people that I don't know how they feel. But, with WH, I don't think that is a DJ, just a statement of facts as he has presented them.