If you define "success" as money, power, fame, etc., as you seemed to be doing with your list of celebs, you WILL find many people will low self-esteem in that category. If you define "success" as happy people in great relationships, I am more inclined to agree with you.

JM,

I didn't know anyone was "trying to change a thing." Just debating and exchanging ideas.

However do you do it? What's your secret to such a blissful union? You must pardon us cynical divorced people. BTW, what are you doing here in the "after divorce: dating and relationships" section? Were you married before?

I do think that it's wonderful that you and your h seldom disagree and have made it for 15 years. But the final chapters aren't written yet. Relationships are static - always changing. You never know what lies ahead. May you continue to grow together and both get along so well 50 years from now...then maybe you can share your secrets.

Hoopsie,
Gosh, I suppose no response is really necessary, but... I just wanted to give you a sincere wish that someday you will find the right man and you two will have half as much happiness and compatibility as we have!!

Peace and hugs. Hope all gets better in your world soon...

Aw, thanks!

Actually, I feel better already. Snarking at trolls on the internet always cheers me up. So keep posting, it will be your good deed for the day.

Yes, I was referring only to accomplishments in a person field, not about relationships.

The reason I made the statement about "not changing a thing" was to point out that many men do think the way that the men on this thread think.

As I posted previously, I've been lurking on this site (and some others) for some time gathering information for a book I am writing about step-parenting and blending of families. This thread was so interesting to me that I signed in. If it isn't appropriate for me to post since I am married, please someone let me know.

Yes, I have been divorced (with children). From that divorce I learned a lot about myself and relationships.

"How do we do it?" COMPATIBILITY. It is THE basis of a happy, passionate, growing, fulfilling relationship. My ex and I were not compatible, neither was my husband and his ex. Incompatibility is like a stream of water that harshly flows across a surface, in the beginning it doesn't seem bad, but as time goes on, resentments build and that stream carves a path across your soul, hurting it beyond repair.


In our past relationships we spent most of our time communicating about the things we didn't agree on. Most of our energy and focus was on how to agree on something without fighting about it or burying it...not on each other.

Actually, at our age we won't be around to "get along" 50 years from now! LOL At least if we are, we will be over the century mark! You are 100% correct that relationships are not static. That is why a couple must focus every day on their relationship in order to stayed in tune with each other. We sit down every 6 months and review our relationship and set new goals for ourselves, our relationship, and finances...kind of a roadmap of where we want to go.

Thank you for the good wishes!

Hoopsie,
Why would you call me a "TROLL"? Is it because you disagree with my posts and way of thinking? I haven't said anything nasty to anyone here.

Hope your day gets better and you find more productive ways to "feel better" than callilng strangers names.

Eh. Listening to someone pop in with a "Ladies, you've been doing it all wrong!" post and then follow it up with a few self-congratulatory "I hope you can all be as blissfully happy as me!" ones rubs me the wrong way.

Anyway, which is it -- did your first marriage fail because you didn't put your H and your relationship first as you were advising us to do, or did it fail because you were incompatible from the get-go?

Hoopsie, I meant nothing offensive in what I posted. Also, don't misquote me, I didn't post "you've been doing it wrong". Clearly a happy person posting rubs you the wrong way.

Let's not post to each other since this isn't going well and it basically a waste of time and energy.

Peace.

Well, you said: "I hate to break it to you, but if you ever want a truly satisfying relationship, you will HAVE TO put your husband ahead of your house and children. (I'm not saying neglect the children). Too many women get married, take all their focus off of the relationship and husband and then wonder what the h3ll happened when their husband finds another playmate! It's really pretty easy. Play with your husbands."

I notice you didn't answer my question. Did your marriage fail because you did not put your H first and play with him? Or did it fail because of fundamental incompatibilities?

If the latter, then no amount of playing with him would have made a difference, yes? If the former, then "compatibility" becomes less important than constant work and nurturing and you could have had a successful marriage with him, yes? (and saved your children whatever pain of divorce they suffered, I might add). If the secret to a happy marriage is "really pretty easy," why did yours fail?

Physician, heal thyself and all that.

I have read about half of this thread.............

My thoughts are thus.

I married a man with no college degree, and I have one. He made more money than myself for part of the marriage till he was laid off.

The resentment he felt over my having a degree was HIS issue not mine. He brought it up constantly and it bothered me because I could never make him understand it really did not make any difference me what so ever how much money he made, what education he accomplished, but HE BELIEVED it did matter to me.

My marriage was abusive, and he was horrible to me. I won't go into details, but fast forward past the divorce.

Now I was dating my maintanence man here at the school. I made more than he did, I could of cared less, it bothered the ****** out of him. Relationship ended.

Next I date another man for a bit whom ran a hotel, once again, I made more money than he did, insecurities again on his part and he dumped me. Said I was too good for him and he couldn't handle it.

I swear to you, I never talked about money, nor thought one thing about it, their problems not mine.

Thing is, I really don't care how much money someone makes. If we make each other happy it shouldn't matter one bit.

My problem is that I am secure financially, I do have my act together and I really believe that intimidates the heck out of some men. They want to be the MAN.

So, I have decided that personally I believe money matters to men more than women.............lol

JM,

You can refuse to post to me but I am curious about your ideas.You keep suggesting that "compatibility" is the basis of a happy relationship,etc.If you look at the basic defintion (not related to science or PC's):

-capable of existing or performing in harmonious,agreeable, or congenial combination with another or other's; a feeling of sympathetic understanding.

Of course "getting along" is important but I don't find it to be the crux of a relationship.Love is important or you might as well be talking about an acquaintance or far off relative.*Communication is key IMO.Also,respect and honesty are key too,at least for me.I am not convinced you know so much about all our stories to suggest that we weren't doing our best and that we weren't loving and supportive toward our husbands and that it had nothing to do with compatability or putting them "first" that they chose to cheat anyway.Same goes for the men who were really good husbands ( not perfect as no one is) and their wives cheated as well.

Understanding your H as you say is not a sure fire way to know all there is about relationships now.They are very complicated things,it's not easy, and each is different.I agree with hoopsie that it was a bad introduction to members here to suggest that:


And it's a long the lines of what I,at least,have heard before from women who were once the OW and were then made wife#2 after the D.They always think they have all the answers and well,wife #1 is to blame,she just didn't "do it for him" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />.There's a lot more to the demise of a marriage and to infidelity than just incompatilibilty as I'm sure you will agree and no one can just come here and suggest we were not attentive to our spouses or didn't "play with them".It was a crisis *in the cheater that brought them to that path,no one else did.

Can I ask you: were you ever an other woman(OW)? Is your current marriage the product of an affair(A)? How long married now? You can choose not to answer if you want but it would be interesting to know.

Also,on occasion,there will be someone who comes along that is "writing a book" or even wants to do a "show" on infidelity and tries to bait a poster into talking to them or their "producers".Then there is also the "troll"( not saying you are) or other person(OP) that tries to make waves by their suggestions,intimations or down right deplorable accusations on other boards,on a marriage building site of which most,not all,posters are the survivors of a cheating spouse.Emotions can run very high here at MB.Do you know what it's like to be cheated on? Honestly?

I would think it would make life really boring! What do you talk about at the dinner table? One of my kids once said that one of her fondest childhood memories was the many dinnertime debates. Perhaps your children never disagree with you either?

AB, All I can say is wow. There are a lot of assumptions happening in your post!

First, I never said or meant anything close to this "not convinced you know so much about all our stories to suggest that we weren't doing our best and that we weren't loving and supportive toward our husbands and that it had nothing to do with compatability or putting them "first" that they chose to cheat anyway"

Second, my posts have absolutely zip to do with affairs or cheating. Since when does a person's morality get called into question simply because they post about being in love and happily married?

I was addressing the posts in this thread where a couple of men were being bashed about what their needs are. My posts were to agree with them. Also, I wanted to give guidance on what was important when choosing a new mate. I was divorced previously and know how painful divorce is. But, no, I do not have any experience with being cheated on cheating.

Compatibility is of major importance. Forget the dictionary version and think about seeing everyday things, and a lot of high friction items from the same viewpoint instead of from opposite ends of the universe. It makes staying in love a zillion times easier. Face it, it is the friction, fights and disagreements that tear away at the very fragile fabric of "love". The answer is not to fight, but to agree. Agreement can be negotiated sometimes, but not always and it is hard getting to it.

Here is a quick list of what my husband and I value in our relationship and each other. We focus on these in our 6 month relationship reviews.

* Open and honest communication
* being allowed to be who we are
* showing and building love feelings
* helping each other grow in all areas of life
* parenting our children
* communication

I am gathering information for a book I'm writing, but I've never posted here before and my book has nothing to do with affairs. What's with everything having to do with affairs? Also not doing a "show" of any kind.

At any rate, I am going back to lurking. Time is precious and while there are many posters on here who are great to read or to correspond with, there are a couple who are toxic and I have made it a rule for years now to avoid those types of individuals.

LOL Nellie! Our children are all unique and with different opinions on everything!

What do we talk about? Geez, everything! By "discussion" I didn't mean not talking, I meant not arguing or disagreeing. Sit and think about a well educated and widely traveled friend that you can talk to about anything and they won't have a problem with your viewpoint and will have feedback...that's us.

One of the things that hits us when we are out is how so many couples sit and practically ignore one another. We are always engaged, touching, looking at each other. There has rarely been time when we were out that at least one person hasn't commented on "how in love we are". For clarity, I'm not saying this to make anyone feel bad, just to give a glimpse of our relationship.

Well there were many assumptions in your inital post and following posts but perhaps you refuse to acknowledge them.I am calling it like I see it.Of course you are at liberty to see it how you choose as well.

You can say you never "meant" or said certain things but I would only quote you if you did actually say something( as I did),the rest is my own interpretation which is why I brought it up.



I did not question your morality,can you show me where I did? Also,my inquiry about cheating was just an honest curiosity.


It's my feeling that you fail to see how your post came across when you first came here.No one was bashing anyone else about their posts.Emotions can run high when someone doesn't happen to agree with another's ideas.Someone is always triggered,not everyone but invariably someone is but it keeps the discussion open for the most part.



Well,I don't happen to agree with you entriely but it's ok to have differing opinions.Like I said,getting along/compatibility is important,sure,but I don't hold much creedence in the idea that it makes staying in love a zillion times easier.What information do you have or studies that prove this? In my case,my STBX were,WERE,very compatible.We had the same likes and dislikes in many instances,we had the same beliefs about marriage and family and child raising at one time in our lives( changed now on his part)and we truly enjoyed our time togther for many,many years,etc.So much for compatibility.Also,we rarely "fought".It's not that we didn't have disagreements but we just happened to be on the same "wavelength" for a long time so we could work things out with little complication.Disagreemments rarely occurred too since we usually felt the same about important issues or concerns much like you suggest.Rather than always agree,compromise is key IMO.You may not always agree with your SO about things and when POJA doesn't quite work out then compromise can help if there is something affecting the marriage/relationship.

I know you didn't mention your "book" being about affairs.I brought that up, if you reread it,because of the posts you have made that raised an eyebrow for me and also a couple other posters.Certain posts that come along every so often have that feeling of not quite being "right" in some way.You can leave and lurk now that is your choice.Most do when confronted about what they say.But I stand by what I said,that your intial post was not that friendly and was suggestive.



This quote says a lot,to ME,about how much you may not understand what we are dealing with here or in general.And you contradict yourself too:


Yet you say that these are the things thing that you discuss/focus in your six month relationship "review".

hmm, I missed this quote from JMe2006 the first time:

"I hate to break it to you, but if you ever want a truly satisfying relationship, you will HAVE TO put your husband ahead of your house and children. (I'm not saying neglect the children). Too many women get married, take all their focus off of the relationship and husband and then wonder what the h3ll happened when their husband finds another playmate! It's really pretty easy. Play with your husbands."

JM, since you are a writer you probably chose your words carefully, so I'll take your words "as is" and respond accordingly. I'm not a writer, but I'll do my best to choose my words carefully.

In general, I agree that spouses have to make their R a priority and spend enough time together meeting each other's needs in order to keep their R/M as strong as possible. Here are the problems I have with your words:

1. I don't care how neglectful the W is, there is never, ever a valid excuse or reason for a spouse to "find another playmate." There are plenty of spouses whose needs are totally neglected and they do not run out and have an A. As discussed many times on this board, an A can be fueled by unmet needs, but there must be something else inside the mind/psyche of the WS that allows him or her to justify/excuse/comparmentalize/rationalize such behavior.

Example: Does this mean that if the H is serving in the military and away from his family for a year, then it's ok for his W, who has no playmate during that year, to go out and have an A? No. Never an excuse or good reason for an A.

2. What are the H's doing? Why is the W put into the position of having of being stretched so thin by children and household that she doesn't have the time or energy for her H? If it really is a partnership, then the W should not be in this position in the first place. The H may work outside the home and my be done at, say, 6pm and have weekends off. However, if the W is a SAHM she is never done and does not automatically get weekends off. Instead of blaming the W, why not point out that the H should help out at home more so that the W has some time/energy to meet his needs.

3. "It's really pretty easy. Play with your husbands." Um, no. It's not that easy. As noted above, there are many factors that contribute to a person's decision to go out and find a "playmate" or fall in "love" with an OP. Although meeting your spouse's needs and having fun with them may prevent this in many cases, it is not the only factor. Just ask the many BS on here whose needs were horribly neglected for years and years and who did not go out and have an A. Also, there are plenty of examples of happy, content M's where needs were being met, but one person decided to have an A anyway. It happens all the time. Nothing is that simple and to characterize it as such indicates either a lack of understanding or a lack of empathy for the victims of As.

Pretty much everything discussed on this message board DOES have to do with affairs - the vast majority of people here are either BS's or current or former WS's. It is a rare divorce that doesn't involve an affair - if I had a dollar for every poster who initially said, "I am sure there is no one else," only to retract that after finding out that there was, I might not be a rich woman, but I could certainly have dinner at a really fancy restaurant.

I don't see how you could possibly write a book on stepparenting and not discuss affairs - much of the hatred of stepparents by both children and ex-spouses, and much of the hatred of of ex-spouses by step-parents is a direct result of the fact that many of these stepparents participated in destroying the original family. You can not ignore that and still produce a book that any sensible person would buy.

Nellie,
You have an excellent point that I frankly had not considered. I've no idea the percentage of blended families that had an affair prior, but maybe there are quite a few. My understanding of affairs were that not many at all went on to marriage and blending of families. I've only seen 2 posters here who had an ex who married the ow. It is something I will think about. Thank you for your insight. Do you know of any posters on this forum who are married and were affair people? Not sure if that is proper to ask. I would like to hear what type of special issues arise from that sort of beginning.

What type of issues do you think there are...especially for the children? Do you know of any way to make things easier for the children?

I would be interested to know about any couples who have successfully blended a family.

AB,
We aren't getting anywhere. I've tried to explain why I posted what I did, without much success. I give up. Take care and good luck to you.

I can think of quite a few people here whose ex-husbands have married the OW - for instance, myself, jillybean, movingoninmissouri, & justpeachy. Not all of the marriages lasted - I think Jill's original husband holds the record with 3 (I think) remarriages in the last six or seven years.

There are also several OW's here who married their affair partner - new_beginning has probably been most vocal about the resulting issues.

For the children, there are too many issues to list. My adult children want absolutely nothing to do with their father - one hasn't spoken to him since he left, seven years ago. One child asked how he could commit adultery, when he knew how she felt about adultery. Children, especially older ones with strong moral beliefs, take this behavior personally. My adult kids have never met the OW. My younger kids feel they can never invite their father to special events in their lives, because a) he probably wouldn't come without the OW, and b) the adult children won't come if he is there, even alone, and the younger kids care far more about having their siblings present than their father.

In many cases an OW who marries the husband is extremely jealous and untrusting, not surprisingly. The ex-wife is perceived as a threat, and the OW may go to great lengths to keep the husband from having more than the bare minimum of contact with the mother of his children - making it impossible to co-parent. I can think of many things for the OW not to do: don't refuse to allow the husband to take calls, even emergency ones, from the children's mother, don't refuse to allow the children to visit, don't embarass the children by lecturing them, especially in public, don't treat a child with a learning disability like she is mentally retarded (the other children will notice and resent it), don't buy the husband a vehicle worth over thirty thousand dollars while paying for his lawyer to fight so that he doesn't have to pay $1000 toward his children's college tuition, don't stand next to him and tell him what to say when he calls the mother, don't refuse to allow the father to spend any time alone with the children other than dinner at McDonalds, don't call the child up at the mother's home and yell at him when he says he wants to visit with his father alone.

There is no good way to proceed that involves marrying the OW. Even if all the children are too young to comprehend adultery, they will realize what happened when they are older, and that realization will most likely destroy the underpinnings of their relationship with their father.

Talk about serendipity. Just recently I ran into a blended family issue. My father married his OW. My sister and I were both at college at the time. The new wife had a teenage daughter and a young son. Over 15 years later, we are still dealing with this.

I don’t consider the new wife my step mom. I’d be shocked if she considered me as a stepdaughter. After all, my ex is older than her! I don’t consider the daughter as a stepsister because I didn’t grow up with her. I consider the son not quite as a brother, but as someone in whom I’m interested. I watch his progress with interest. However, I consider the new wife and her two children as part of my extended family.

Well, at a recent family event Wife 2’s daughter cornered my sister and asked her why they weren’t sisters. My sister pointed out how our father and her mother behaved in such a manner as to cause deep harm. Some of the resentment my sister feels spilled over onto W2’s daughter. It’s not logical, but it is.

The good news is we’ve gotten closer with my father. I like W2 and I think events may have worked out for the best. However, we are not one giant family.