Habiba, MIL and 1Wounded,

God can and will work despite us. My challenge to each of you is to read the story of Adam and Eve. You may be very familiar with this passage.

As you re-read this story, please notice that God holds each person (Adam, Eve and the serpent) accountable according to how He sees fit. There are consequences to every action. It may take years - but they will come...

Also, open your HEART to God. Take away the head knowledge - this will do you no good. Proversbs 3:5-6 says, "Trust in the Lord with all your HEART and lean not on your own understanding."

Instead of justifying your actions to people who are also flawed, ask God and then be willing to LISTEN to what He says. God is for marriage 100%. I personally have seem Him turn around the worst of marriages.

Really, when you get down to the "nitty gritty", an affair is truly about the condition of the heart. God wants your heart FIRST, then you can give it to others.

The OM may be a dream for all I know, BUT he will never ever satisfy the heart. Gad specifically made us this way.

1WMil,

I see the word judgement thrown around alot on this thread since your daughter and you have decided to post on 1W's thread. I think the correct word is "discrimination". I know it is NOT PC to use this word, but in reality it is exactly what all adults teach their children or try to. To be able to discriminate good and bad ways of handling problems, to be able to discriminate between destructive behavior and constructive behavior, to be able to discriminate between thing that will harm them and not, to discriminate between actions or INactions that will cause harm to them and those they know and love.

What everyone here is pointing out, is that your daugther has failed at virtually everyone one of those decision points. Her reasons are really immaterial, why? Because until she stops what she is doing and starts doing what I HOPE you have tried to teach her, her reasons cannot be addressed. You SIL cannot address the issues at hand with another man between him and his W and between him and his children. If you are comforting your daughter in any way in this mess, you are abetting her inability to do what I hope you did try to teach her.

Your daughter's post on here is filled with self-righteous justifications "you don't know the facts", "you don't this or that", but the reality is we do KNOW she is having an affair with her FIL, and is destroying not only her husband, her marriage, and harming YOUR grandchildren in the process, she is destroying her husband's Mother's marriage as well, and the grandmother of her children.

1WMIL, THOSE ARE THE FACTS. The people on this site are on the whole very aware of marriages and what it takes to make them work. Many here a painfully aware of what affairs, neglect, and miscommunications can do to a marriage and the people involved. But, WHAT ALL are aware of is that until the affair ends, nothing can be done to address the issues at hand. Your daughter is 100% at fault when it comes to this affair, and no amount of dancing, juggling terms, putting spin on it, can change that FACT.

The state of the marriage before the affair, is a different matter but it can only be addressed once the affair is over and NO CONTACT between you daughter and her FIL is established.

Frankly, even your daughters decision to divorce her husband should NOT be made while in this affair. I am a realistic enough to know many times this is exactly when people make this decision, but the FACTS are only about 3% of marriage that started as affairs are successful. If you do nothing else strongly encourage your daughter to end this affair.

I must go, but I hope my comments we be considered by you. I know your daughter won't even consider them give that she is the "fog" of her affair.

God Bless,

JL

Just Learning,

I am getting off this thread, because I didn't intend to highjack it from my sil. It's obvious to everyone that this affair should stop.

Thank you for your comments.

Melodylane,

I am sorry for you.

This is fun, in a sick sort of way <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />! If only it were a joke, but the daily pain keeps me sober. Each is entitled to their own opinion, and I (and I hope others) will respect that. I hear (and believe) the one side saying that adultery is wrong, and the A should be ended at all costs. I hear and understand the other side saying that we need compassion and mercy, and God forgives and uses our screw-ups for His glory and our good, and even puts messed up people in wonderful positions (Abraham, David, Samson, Solomon, etc). The trick here is how do we get out of this mess we are in??
One way is to go to court and divorce. That is the easy way, and one I am entitled to even from the high standards of the Bible. But I believe there is a higher standard, that of love, of laying down my life for others. Now, even Jesus did not hang on the cross forever, but when all was finished He gave His life. But remember that even He, the innocent one, forgave His enemies before they had asked for forgiveness. I had to come to that place, and now I walk in that freedom (though I'm still dealing with my own LBs and selfishness).
There is so much about our lives that cannot be written on this post, so much good in this M we shared for nearly 12 years, and yes, so much good even now in my WW and her OM. But my energy is mostly spent on loving my wife and laying down my life for her daily. She even still rejects me, and I know that a time is coming soon (unless she turns back to me) when like Jesus I will have to say, "Father forgive them..." and "It is finished." Not to compare myself directly to Him, 1Wmil, or to presume that I am the good guy and your D and her OM are all bad. But I disagree that she has been "selfless" this whole time, or else maybe I would have known about her desires for him and the extent of her dissatisfaction with me. We certainly would not have lived under my parents" roof for 7 months, nor would I have left her alone with him, ever. I feel that I contributed greatly to the demise of our M, that it was a house in great need of repair, but she (and the OM, to both marriages) poured gasoline and lit a match to finish the destruction, instead of working to repair and rebuild. True, the gas and matches were cheaper and quicker, but still it was a terrible thing, and there is no justification ever for that kind of action.
I am even still forced to listen to my wife say how great the OM is, and that the A was not a selfish thing, and more of the blame for both marriages is placed on me and my mom (I own our parts in it, but I don't know if WW sees that). The way out is to end the A permanently, but that path is shut to me, and I am left with me giving and not receiving, loving and not being loved, accepting and being rejected, persevering when she has given up. I don't know how much longer I can endure this pain, and I don't know that Plan B will do anything to stop the A, and even then she might just accuse me of "plotting" my own plans and not really loving her, as if loving her means encouraging her to find her happiness wherever and however it comes. But I digress.
The question I still have is, "Is there anything I can do now to help stop the A and give our M the fighting chance it deserves?" It is worth it to me, worth any sacrifice I could make. But I don't believe it is worth it to her.

1WMIL, please save your sympathy for those who need it, your grandchildren, your SIL and his mother. They are the ones who are being harmed with your help.

I hope you will open your mind - and your heart - and read take our posts to heart, because you are not doing your grandchildren, your D or your SIL any favors by supporting your D in this sick way.

1wounded, I am so sorry for what you are going through. Call the Harley's for counseling. That's is the best advice I can give you.

It is impossible to work on the marriage when the affair continues.

I, too, got the blame last spring. I, too, endured the endless list of rationalizations and justifications. I, too, endured a few weeks of feeling guilty for the things I did to contribute to the state of my marriage. I, too, endured a month and a half of continued contact after D-Day. I/we ended up saving our marriage.

Please email me at my address below. I have something I would like to share with you that may be of interest.

You will make it. No matter the outcome, Plan A and, if necessary, Plan B are techniques to assist you with either saving your marriage or ending it with integrity. Either way, MB will ensure...you will make it.

Good luck,

Mr. Wondering

1Wmil,

Wow...I didn't read back before Habiba's post to find you here. I wondered why others kept typing 1Wmil...which would be appropriate. I'm a little red-faced right now, because I would have spoken directly to you.

My bad.

When habiba first came here, I talked with her, because I have walked in her shoes...wouldn't be me bashing her...I began with resentments, and how we create them in ourselves...which is the first step I thought I took.

It wasn't.

The very first step was comprehending my H's pain of my betrayal. I found his journals and read them from the year before. It was astounding to me. That got through...his pain, not mine. Mine had consumed me, eaten me up and over...and I believed it was all coming from my H, not me.

Our MC had us do a resentment timeline...which is what I offered habiba...you can look up the posts to her...that was when she was swearing off her A, seeing what she was doing and why...and I believed she was owning her choices...finding her power.

I was wrong.

"An A is only the sympton of problems in the M, as I'm sure most people would agree. My daughter is a beautiful, loving, caring, giving young woman who is truly struggling to get through this difficult situation. She is guilt ridden, but addicted to the emotional support she is receiving from the A." This is a cycle, I have discovered...feel guilt, want to feel better, feel entitled to the relief of the A, which feeds the guilt and shame, and in turns, feeds the A.

"Neither of them set out to do this to their spouse. I'm not stupid enough to say it just happened. A's don't "just happen". The decision is more like, "you know, someone makes me feel valued, something I haven't gotten an abundance of at home lately. This feels pretty good." Then it goes downhill from there." Might I add where the true devastation comes from, which I think habiba got a glimpse of here? It comes from her being that awful to her self...when she realizes it was her who wasn't valuing her self, living through others and using herself...that's what gets us to A's...filling our holes from the outside...which others cannot do, nor can we do for them...not as mothers, fathers, or spouses...no one can. Not in God's design.

When she realizes her premise for her choice to have an A is from her not loving herself, then all the justifications, self-deceit and garbage of her about her implodes you...has to...you have to get into a million little pieces to really get what you've done.

See, that's why A's don't last--not about the people in them, but because they have to be people who fill from the outside...and can't be filled enough. Because of this, habiba is on the road of a serial cheater, like me...which really gave me the impetuous to flag her down, offer her what I have and know now...because it is a horrific pain-filled journey, and takes down all those around you.

"My sil is struggling desparately to save this marriage. I have the utmost love and respect for him, and I value him greatly. I don't know how this will all work out, but I am proud of both my daughter and my sil for making the effort to save this M."

Please see the evil here in your pride for your daughter...as long as their is contact, she is doing evil...you herself, her BH, her children, her MIL and I know this causes you pain...no contact stops the guilt/affair cycle...and this way, habiba owns her self again, her choices...her real power, not the fake one she has built-into blame.

"There is still love there," No, habiba is choosing not to love...Love is a choice, a verb...we act on our beliefs...is a lot of frustration, pain and resentment layered over her feelings of love? Oh yeah...she lives by feelings, not faith...not belief...except like you...letting God work it all out, not owning what he gave us, which is choice...God doesn't justify his love for us--he couldn't...it's a signal when we attempt to disown what is our choice to love by justifications...insupportable.

I am not saying your daughter is bad...I am saying she is doing evil.

"and neither of them ran straight to Divorce Court, which many of my own generation would have done." Are you urging your daughter to move out as long as she is choosing contact? That she truly is choosing between her marriage and her lover? That she is teaching her children people are replaceable...one ticks you off, get another...which leaves them hollow beings? Your grandchildren will grow in constant fear of being replaced...because of this. I know. I'm the daughter of a serial cheater. Lessons we learn. Both my sister and I turned out cheaters...not Dad's fault...our lesson was...be good or get dumped. And dump the heck first...because this is where fear of abandonment truly comes from...so yes, her modeling this to the kids is destroying them, their childhood and their lives...I know. I remember.

"Instead, they chose the hardest path, the one to understanding and peace. They both love their children and are committed to being good parents. You are right in saying this A is selfish; but my daughter has been selfless for over eleven years." She hasn't been selfless...she has sacrificed, her choice, and that is exactly what brings on affairs and divorce...she believes that others should treat her as she treats them...which is twists scripture (Galatians) into self-deceit...she created her own resentments, built them into entitlement and all this, through a lack of respect...for others and for herself.

Harley says if you choose your to give your Giver too much room...your Taker comes in with a vengeance...no one else does this to you. She learned that from you. She also learned from you that she had to earn love, which tells Self, again, defective, unworthy...if love has to be earned, then we're deformed, malignant growths...you did that. Start by owning what you taught her, how you raised...how well your beliefs have worked in your life...and what your truth is...show her how to own, not blame; show her that your "want you to be happy" wish is really the lowest goal you can have in this life...because happiness comes from self-respect, knowing your power to choose to love, loving yourself and it flowing up and outward...not ****** yourself to get stuff when you believe you are empty.

And that is what this is...and her FIL is the same. Two people disdaining God's creation to fill each other up like the artificial fantasy they are to each other...

"This certainly doesn't justify the A, but it does perhaps make it more understandable." Please, do this for your daughter...it is tough...I had to own stuff to my sons, because I passed it on...and as you did from your parents...on and on...let's stop the cycle which leads to these cycles...let's change the world today for habiba and allow her to see you and what you've really learned--love is because you choose it. Everyone can change their beliefs...choose their actions, and thoughts...and have different feelings...God's design. Doesn't need to change Self, but begin honoring real self and not her self-image...find the difference, do the work, thrive, grow...

Her BH is getting this...through the decimation and pain...he's getting this...growing up is painful and difficult...especially when you believed you already were.

LA

That's understandable. The real question for you know is what are you prepared to do to remove your daughter from this healthy situation?



Then think of how "happy" she would be when the news gets out that she's an adultress who's scr*wing her father-in-law? The longer the A continues, the greater the risk of this becoming known to the public at large. That's a stain that will stick for a lifetime, whether or not the A comes to an end afterwards.



Your daughter is carrying on an A with her father-in-law. All else is likely irrelevant.



...and I'll bet that before it was disclosed to you, you never considered him the type of person to go scr*wing his daughter-in-law either, right?


Good for him. Now what is YOUR purpose here?

1wounded, God does not show compassion and mercy for those who are openly defying Him and spitting in his face by committing evil. He HATES EVIL. His compassion and mercy are for those who are REPENTENT.

God's standard is not to pass out "forgiveness" like cheap candy to the crowds. God's standard for forgiveness is REPENTENCE. And your W is not repentent. She is commmitted to a path of evil. She is destroying your marriage, your mother's marriage, and your children's family.

As a FATHER and HUSBAND and a CHRISTIAN, it falls to you to protect your family from this assault. And make no mistake about it, your family is under ASSAULT. There is no Christian virtue or mandate that you sit idly in the face of evil while it destroys you. That is NOT LOVE. God HATES EVIL and says clearly in the Bible it should be STOPPED, not ENABLED as you are doing.

Now, I don't believe that you should divorce your W, but I believe you should protect your family by removing them from this evil. If you have to do that with a legal seperation agreement or a divorce, I believe you should do it.

I think that doing that, and going into Plan B may just be what pulls your W away from this sick affair and saves your marriage. That is why I suggested you go to an attorney, 1wounded. But that is your best bet in saving your marriage and defending your family as far as I can see.

You MUST do something to get your family out of this morass, and what you have done up til now has availed you nothing. Your wife openly and flagrantly continues to flaunt her affair UNIMPEDED. In front of your own children.

Stop this evil, 1wounded. THAT IS LOVE. Sitting by and pattering scripture - out of context - as an excuse to DO NOTHING is not love. Enabing EVIL is not love. Refusing to protect your children is NOT LOVE.

LA,

That was a very nice and very accurate post. I hope all of the parties concerned read it, and face the reality of what is going on, rather than blame shifting which seems to be occuring in the case of WS and her mother.

God Bless,

JL

1W,

"I hear (and believe) the one side saying that adultery is wrong, and the A should be ended at all costs." Because God doesn't forgive you until you stop and own your sin. He can't. Until you own it. And he HATES sin against his creation...herself...mightily...along with adultery. Like bulldozing a child, calling it defective.

"I hear and understand the other side saying that we need compassion and mercy, and God forgives and uses our screw-ups for His glory and our good, and even puts messed up people in wonderful positions (Abraham, David, Samson, Solomon, etc). The trick here is how do we get out of this mess we are in??"

No trick, 1W...no mercy, compassion until the sin is stopped and owned. Otherwise, his creation is still being harmed, as are his other ones...do you tell yourself to be compassionate when your son is hitting your daughter over the head with a hammer and he's drinking poison as he does it...because once he stops and owns he was wrong, God will forgive? That's what habiba is doing...she is hitting her children, husband, mother-in-law over the head with a hammer and saying this is for her...and gulping poison, which makes her hit you all over the head...and she believes, you are making her hit you and making her drink the poison.

She's isn't stupid...she's full of hatred...for herself, and Self is innocent.

You are saying that every day you forgive your WW for continuing her A, is that correct? You forgive her for her choices...knowing, understood, absolute choice to betray herself...who gives you that right? You can forgive her for what she does to you, but not to your children, your MIL or herself. You have no right.

Unless you're God.

Please don't take his words and twist them to suit your feelings...we are encouraged to walk as Jesus did, when he was a man, not to speak as him, feel or think as him...did you notice when he healed, he asked "Do you want to...?" Respect. Respect. Respect.

Do not buy into the selfless part...she had a voice and a choice...you're right, she needs to use them. She needs to know her power as a human, her wholeness...and live from it. She made her own choices...hers, not yours...you did not, nor can you, make her be in an A. You can't. You're half the marriage...equal power...

Owning your choices, not being O&H does harm...FEAR does harm. Not feeling it...choosing to act from it. Don't choose as she has...I believe you want to forgive without ownership so that you aren't toxic with your own resentment. I get that. The ownership I'm asking for isn't, "if I hadn't done that, this wouldn't have happened"...get to the heart of your choices, and feeling choiceless...which is impossible. Go over each time you said to yourself and/or others..."I didn't have a choice...we had no choice". Find those. Find your own power. This will teach you what cherishing, honoring, loving by choice truly is...

As a BS...I had to get that. I had to find those in my past to redeem my present and hope in the future. I had to find out where all this pain was coming from...WH wasn't doing it to me...he was raising my FEAR over my head...my biggest, oldest, truest fear...into a giant...the pain was mine, from the inside, along with the fear...own it, 1W...first step of forgiveness is to identify the sin.

You're still DJing habiba...heck, I probably did today...identify these and make amends...because of who you want to be and acknowledgement of who you are and your power...pain is necessary; suffering is optional.

Choose wisely...the more I knew my WH's pain BEFORE his A, the better I could do Plan A...my own redemption...not his...stop fousing on her and stick to you...you're worth it. Find where you have to be filled from the outside...in her...where you can't stop seeing you in reaction to her, her in reaction to you...and inject that respect into your life.

LA

Wow, LA, I appreciate your posts. I've read what you've written this afternoon, and I'll read it again and try to understand everything.

Yes, I began the resentment exercise....I had many more blessings than resentments to recount. But I haven't pulled it out lately...I'll do that. I did have resentment toward 1WH for many things, and realized that I had to take responsibility for my life. I believe I am beyond the resentment, but lack of resentment does not automatically cause me to want to jump back into a painful relationship. I feel more responsible now for my actions than I did before, and somehow I can't imagine keeping that sense of personal responsibility while in a relationship with 1WH... the ruts are soooo deep.

You are right...I want others to treat me the way I treat them...I guess I don't understand how that is wrong. I try to see others' points of view and respect others' freedom to make choices. I don't enjoy being controlled by anger, guilt, or fear, so I try not to control others. Please clarify your point about "self deceit." I'd like to understand it.

Anyway, thanks for hanging in there with all of us...I'll go read your post again and try to learn some more.

Blessings, Habiba

LA,

Something else: You said that it is a false belief that "love is earned," as if we are not worthy...but Steve Harley told me that love IS conditional, and must be continually fed (or "earned") rather than treated as some mysterious "force" which is either present or not. He actually called it a "False Belief System" when people think that love just "is" or "isn't." It can be created and it can be destroyed by our own actions.

Perhaps I misunderstood your meaning. Would you please clarify?

Also: Steve also told me that it is impossible to make myself love 1WH, to change my feelings. But I think I'm hearing you say that I can change my feelings and beliefs? He says the ideal scenario is for 1W and I to be in love with each other...but he understands that I cannot believe that this scenario is possible right now. He asked me to give 1W time to "prove" that he can meet my EN's, so I can extend him Love Bank "credit" to work things out.

I also must add that he is very respectful and knowledgeable, and non-judgemental. I appreciate that, and wish the posters here could be more like Mr. Harley. But I guess you get what you pay for! (free advice here doesn't always live up to the quality of $185 per hour advice)

Anyway, any clarification would be appreciated. Thanks.

What could you possibly mean by this statement, 1W? I just don't understand how it could be fun (even in a sick sort of way)!

In all the months that we've been recovering our marriage, not once would I have described this betrayal as being "fun". And, not for any point specifically, but the main sick thing about it is that it's your stepfather.

I'm sorry if I offended you; however, but, I am curious as to what you meant by that statement.

Scripture says,

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you...

Does not say get treated right or smash their faces...or treat right to get treated right...what does it say, truly?

Have a code you live by...not the actions of others. They are out of your control. Only you control you...choose from your beliefs and choose your actions...your code...God is saying, "Here is the way to make your code"...

The resentment timeline had nothing to do with counting your blessings...or weighing good with bad, nothing...it is a lesson about why you take poison and wait for your H to die.

I do not recommend you doing this exercise until you have been in no contact for at least a month...cannot be done without self-honesty...until you stop having contact of any kind, you cannot be self-honest.

"I believe I am beyond the resentment, but lack of resentment does not automatically cause me to want to jump back into a painful relationship. " again, if you were at terms with your power, your choices, you would be repulsed by OM, your choices and have no desire of contact. You have resentment. You need it. To serve you. I understand. I'm here for when you stop shredding your soul.

See your lies to yourself "does no automatically cause me" only you cause you, Hab...only you can. You are choosing to live by feelings...which are information, not something to live by...from your beliefs...which are a jumble of everything you've believed since two-years-old...so feelings are yours, they are valid and signalling something about YOU not others. Honestly. Straight at you. You're living backwards.

Painful relationship...wow...really? Sounds attractive. Anyone in a relationship with YOU is in one..beause you're in pain and it is coming from INSIDE you...until you say, "Enough! I hear you!" to your Self, and stop contact...until your mind clears...go six months, do a lot of self-care, exploration and acceptance...getting to God's creation underneath what you created...and then ask your self then...where do I choose to be and why?

"I feel more responsible now for my actions than I did before," You ARE responsible whether you feel it or not...that's how you lie to yourself, through feelings...God made this reality for all humans...you're choosing, and I did, too, remember...to be blameless, for the first time in my life, truly blameless...world owed me, Habiba...BIG TIME. You are responsible for every choice (each moment), of each day, including your thoughts and beliefs. You ARE.

You made those ruts deep...get to work finding out why, where was your payoff...and please look directly into your mother's eyes when you do this...learned response. Both of you could finally break free from this way of living disrespectfully. If I could do it, I know you can.

I can't address the rest...I feel ill reading it...fog so deep...you can be controlled? No choice? Helpless? Where's all that sacrificial power, Hab? Pick one...are you a VICTIM or a MURDERER of MARRIAGE?

Oh, wait...one got you to the other and now back again.

You cannot be controlled, caused or cured by any other living human being on the planet...Not in God's design...We have influence, but NO control. Another lie to substantiate that ripping truth you are doing all of this for an unjust cause...for evil. You can't face it. You don't have the guts God GAVE you.

LA

OK. I'll write later.

Habiba, unless you have gone into no contact with your otherman I request that you remove the F from your FWW tag, from what we have read you are not a FWW you are a WW. By carrying the FWW, which you seem to not be from the posts we have seen as of late, you dishonor that tag and disgrace the people that worked so hard to earn/redeem that title/tag being a faithful/former wayward spouse.

What could you possibly mean by this statement, 1W? I just don't understand how it could be fun (even in a sick sort of way)!
(Sorry, I'm still getting the quoting thing!)

The sick fun is the forum discussion, involving myself, my still wayward wife, my MIL, and a hundred people I have never met, all writing about this affair and how to get out of it and work on the healing in our marriage <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.
The reality is like a roller coaster gone bad: seat hotter than hello,ups and downs but mostly the kind that make you sick, and getting stuck upside down too often and not able to make it stop <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />. But here we are, lets make the most of it, and improve us and others along the way.
To restate my question, when do I know I should go to Plan B, or can Plan A alone save a marriage and stop an affair? If we are seeing baby steps of improvement, should I wait and see if we move further along, or "give up" and end the baby steps now? She has wanted me out for a while, but is giving me the chance to work on Plan A, given that neither of us are rushing for a divorce.
I am fully commited to doing whatever necessary to bring us to a better place, better than we have ever been at. I am made of tougher stuff than most around me realized (including me), and now is the time to show it and not "run away" and avoid the issue (though I do see that there is a time for Plan B). So when do I know, and have any Ms been saved with Plan A alone?

1W,

There is really no chance of recovery until the A ends and NC is established. You should go to plan b when you feel yourself losing love for your W, if you wait until you don't love her at all to go to plan b there is little chance for the marriage, because recovery is really a test and it takes at least one person with enough love to carry on. She does not have it, you do, you need to preserve it.

Plan A is good if you see progress but monitor yourself carefully. Often people are advised to pick a date in the future for evaluation of the situation. It is advised that you keep this target date to yourself. At that point you look back over whatever spance of time you have alloted yourself to see if there has been improvement. If there is, perhaps you set a new date, if not, then you consider plan B, but most of all you must monitor yourself. Plan A takes a huge toll on the BS because it forces such an embalance in the giver/taker balance. So pay close attention to yourself, not your feelings they will come and go, but your sense of love for your W.

She has NO IDEA what this is taking from you, nor does she comprehend the strength of love you have shown. Frankly, she never will, she is too self focused, and too much in the "fog" now. Even when she comes out, she will never truely know what this took. It is the way of things.

So work on your plan B letter and strategy, make sure you have a plan, and then stick with plan A as long as you are not losing too much out of the love bank. If it goes empty, it is likely she will not be able to hold you any longer. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Your MIL, seems nice but misguided, it is a shame she cannot be a source of strength for you. I am sure your mother is very messed up as well, and that takes a toll as well doesn't it?

So there you go, I hope I have been of some help.

God Bless,

JL