ACK! Haven't even filled the machine with water yet. I've had calls about my resume all day today <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Got another interview lined up!

Go, EO! That's great news! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA, somehow I picture YOU being the one with the Superwoman tattoo.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

EO, LA, you guys around today? Just wanted to check in before my vacation... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Hope everything is going well for you all!
HTBH

Hi, Happy, checking in.

Okay, so where we left it with CA was that I agreed to go next year. I've slept on it a few weeks now, and honestly, I still am not enthusiatic about it, and not willing to go reluctantly. We have an MC appointment Monday, and I'm going to ask him if I can talk about it at our session, or if I should wait until some other stuff settles down around here like my job situation so I'd be better prepared for the brunt of the storm that would hit me when I 'fess up.

Hi EO,



Is that what you are going to say when you ask him? 'Cuz I'm hearing you ask for his permission to talk about it, which in fact he can't give you because he doesn't control whether or not you talk, and then I'm hearing you DJ yourself by calling your being honest "fessing up," and then I'm hearing you DJ him by assuming that there's going to be a storm when you do tell him (and I'm not saying there won't be -- just sounds like your overall frame of reference is a little bleak today).

Am I misinterpreting you?

How are you feeling?

(((EO)))

(By the way, I think it is FANTASTIC that you are being honest with yourself that you aren't enthusiastic about going and EXCEPTIONALLY fantastic that you aren't willing to go unless you can be enthusiastic.)

I'm not asking for permission, I'm asking for advice on whether it is advisable. I am feeling relatively happy and secure, but being job searching is a relatively difficult time for a person and I don't want to sign on for more than I can handle well when the kids are with me all the time, I need to be somewhat "up" as their caregiver.

By fessing up, I mean being honest, but also right now I feel uncomfortable with the lying by omission, because when I agreed to go next year, I thought living somewhere I don't want to is better than dealing with the fall-out of H's anger any longer. I'm not trying to DJ myself, but that's not who I want to be, someone betraying themself.

Is that a DJ, my fear that H will punish me? Thanks for pointing that out, it is a fear. That's how I'm feeling, fearful, apprehensive. Yes, I do see the DJ in there now, choosing not to be RH with H because of fear of whether I can weather his reaction.

So, I do know what I have to do. By my question is still timing, because if I'm a wreck I won't be the caregiver my kids need. But that's DJing myself, maybe I'll surprise myself and be able to weather whatever happens? I just don't know.

Thanks for clarifying!

So (just to make sure I get what you are saying), you are planning to ask the MC if he thinks it's a good idea for you to discuss CA with H now? Not to ask H whether it's OK to discuss it in MC (which is how I originally read your post -- sorry for the misunderstanding!) Well, that certainly makes sense!

I see how you feel like you are lying by omission, and why you wouldn't want to be. Although it seems to me that you told him your truth at the time, and your truth has simply changed.



I hear you, that's a scary thought, isn't it?

I believe you can weather it! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Have you thought about boundaries and enforcements, in the event that you need them? That might help to ease your fears, to know that you have a plan in place. (Or it might not.. what do you think?)



What are you wanting to say to him? H, I wanted to let you know that I have given CA a lot of thought, and I'm not able to agree to moving in a year? Or do you want to have a discussion about why you aren't enthusiastic and what it would take for you to be?

Because if you're thinking of a drive-by statement, then I would just get it out there at your first opportunity <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> and then be prepared to enforce a boundary if needed.

In fact, the more I think about it, the more I would recommend the drive-by statement! This isn't something that needs to be resolved ASAP, so there's no need to get into a detailed POJA right now, IMO.

How does that sound to you? Less scary? More scary?

One other thing, and you know I don't have kids yet, but seems to me that being upset in front of your girls doesn't necessarily make you a bad caregiver. We humans do get upset/sad/hurt whatever sometimes, and isn't it good for your children to learn from your example to handle their feelings in a healthy, respectful way?

Hugs, HTBH

Yep, that's my question.

Yes, I did say what I meant when I said it, but sleeping on it a few weeks, it's not somethng I have been able to get okay with.

Yes, my biggest problem has been feeling like a failure when he's unhappy with me, and I think I've worked through that. But then I move on to boundaries, and that is that I won't stay where I'm being yelled at and I won't continue in a conversation that is abusive. That's two ways, if I start to disrespect either of us, out of my guilt, likewise I will leave the conversation. I am fortunate that H is really respectful of when I need to just stop talking.

I'm reading the boundaries in marriage book, and just got to consequences. To keep it simple for myself, I'm not going to try to figure out anything new now, just listen and repeat when I'm calm to do that, and keep that hopper on! We've had a few mostly calm weeks now, so I don't feel fried like I had.

I did try in the past to talk about what it would take for me to be enthusiatic aboout moving out there, which would be for him to find work out there, housing we could agree on and afford, and reasonable commutes. Now I would add my finding work out there, too. He wasn't enthusiastic about placing any conditions on it before, so what I would say is, "I have given SoCal a lot of thought, but I cannot agree to move out there without the things I had told you I need - a job and housing - in place." That doesn't make me a failure that I have not supported him in this way.

And I also think it's fair that we discuss what it would take for him to be enthusiastic about agreeing to stay here, and what it would take to be enthusiatic about moving to another place we have both expressed interest in, Orlando, Florida. My first choice would of course be to stay here and not have to move at all, but Orlando may satisfy his need to move, and has the things he listed as important: good job prospects, good weather, friendly people. It also has a few other things that are also important to me: driving distance from family and affordable housing. But you're right, there is no need to hammer all this out today at all.

The drive-by O&H has been working really well for me, it reinforces to me that I need to LET GO OF THE RESULTS! Because day after day I see how I contribute to all this. I'm not beating up of DJing myself, just being more aware. I think being on the AD when I was helped that, too, along with all the great support I'm getting.

But to be honest I don't feel safe to be O&H about this outside of the MC office. I don't mean physical safety, I mean that the MC can help H process his feelings about it to be more neutral.

Part of me is totally convinced that this CA move is totally about something else that I haven't yet identified. But since I don't know what's going on in anyone else's head, I will just go on what's actually been said.

OK, I got it now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />



And that's OK! You are being honest with yourself, and preparing to share your truth with H, and I think that's marvelous.



Sounds like you are doing great!! No wonder you are feeling happy. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />



I totally agree! I don't think you're a failure for wanting something other than what he wants. You're your own person with your own needs and feelings -- you're YOU. Which, by the way, is a wonderful thing to be, IMO. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />



Absolutely, I think it's important to POJA it, too. I just meant that you don't need to POJA it right now. So you can tell him your new truth, that you aren't feeling enthusiastic about the move, without having to dive into the whole enchilada right then. Maybe even tell him your new truth, and tell him that you would like to use your MC session to discuss the topic further, and see what he thinks? That way, you each have some time to think on it before the big discussion.



YAY for you!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />



So you want to discuss it in MC so that the MC can help your H respond to you better? Hmmmm.. This, to me, sounds like the same fearful DJ wrapped in prettier packaging.

I don't see anything unhealthy about saying that you don't feel safe to have this convo without the support of your MC -- hey, that's your truth! -- but it sounds different (to me, anyway) when you say that you want to have the convo at the MC for your H's benefit.

Hey, I hate to run off after I've asked you a ton of questions, but I gotta finish some stuff at the office and then get to the airport!

I hope you have a lovely weekend, and I believe that you will find the way to tell your H what you need to tell him. I believe you can handle it! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hugs!
HTBH

HTBH, thanks for all the support!

"So you can tell him your new truth, that you aren't feeling enthusiastic about the move, without having to dive into the whole enchilada right then. Maybe even tell him your new truth, and tell him that you would like to use your MC session to discuss the topic further, and see what he thinks?"

I think that's a good idea, gosh, you know, a wrinkle I didn't think of, Monday is his birthday. We have a wierd dynamic there lately, because I love celebrating, but recently he has seemed on edge about holidays, gets mad about what seems to me a perceived slight, because I really am happy about whatever holiday and trying to make it nice, and not trying to slight him, and he goes off with the kids. Fourth of July was really good, so I'm hopeful it will go well, but this could cause a big wrinkle. But I do like that idea, to give him some time because he may have some things he is more comfortable talking about in MC, too.

"So you want to discuss it in MC so that the MC can help your H respond to you better? Hmmmm.. This, to me, sounds like the same fearful DJ wrapped in prettier packaging."

Thanks for pointing that out, I meant respond in a way safer to me, open the air there so that he can discuss it and get MC's perspective instead of just being mad at me. Yes, that's a DJ. He deserves the dignity to respond however he wishes, and I have the choice to establish boundaries to protect myself.

Done with finals? Headed for vacation? Congratulations! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

:::waving bon voyage to HTBH even though she can't see me:::

EO,

Looks like you're really doing well...DJs are super subtle...and you are taking them being pointed out as HTBH has intended...as supportive measures.

When you see these, just on this thread, have you thought how they are setups...not for DH, but for you? I bet you have these downplayed ones in your head about how you're gonna react, feel, think...when you won't know until you get there...and you stumble over what you may have chosen, since they are playing like Musak in your head, with what you will choose.

More freedom in store for you, tootsie...

Interview for what kind of position? Same as the last or different?

As for CA move...are you looping in your head a bit? Not enthusiastic...from your heart or spirit; yet you already said you were and were at the time you said it...not wanting to let someone down, as if this was a promise; not wanting to give up the new calmness because this is the button issue?

I looped like that a lot...because my H broke so many promises or agreements, I was strict in keeping mine...found myself bound up in it...and yeah, betrayed myself through them. So one step at a time, just like HTBH was advising...truth first...no fixes, 'k? Just talk about your feelings about moving to CA, not that you want to tack on the job requirement for you, too, and THEN you'll be enthusiastic...because you're still working through the issue of moving at all...aren't you?

Easy does it with yourself, too...takes time to figure out why we feel what we feel when we feel it.

Have you been reading the P/A thread here? If you tend to DJ defensively, expecting his abuse, maybe something on that thread will help you.

And I'd like to get your opinion if I'm too sensitive on it for the last three pages.

LOL

Ayup...I want your opened ears and opinion. And a hug.

ROFL

(((EO)))

For DH's bday...what ENs could make that day a real blast for you...your acts of love...not the results?

LA

I hadn't thought about that until you said that, but I see where I do that. I do catch them midsentence now, talking to H and to the kids, and friends, and I think, each one, I'm getting more practice. So it was really cool when HTBH caught those, because you know I type and then edit before I post, so what I posted I had already edited, looking for those sneaky DJs LOL. So it's really cool that there's more freedom in store <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

This one is more of a commute than I want, but the position is one I know I can be really good at. I'm set to interview to the one close to home next week, too, they postponed from this week because too many were on vacation. The close to home one is more difficult, but I think I will give it a shot if I get it, it's a big company and hopefully I can find my niche. I also applied to several other close to home positions and I look forward to hearing back.

You are so right, no more promises. I try my darnedest to word stuff like I'm not making promises, just try and see, because making promises is a BIG DEAL to H, and the last thing I want to do is cause him more pain. I was just so nervous, scared to say the wrong thing, so eager to get to a truce we could move forward happy from, and I really did think I would be able to do this, I've made it through other "agreements" I never thought I'd make it through.

I made it through page 3 Tuesday, and oh my goodness, I started seeing myself - procrastinating, not following through. Not all of it, but those things, so I figured I'd work on that, and then come back to it. I did AWESOME on the procrastinating this week, but I would not have judged myself if I didn't. So now I can go through the rest, being conscious to be gentle. I also got to your first posts, and it was so cool, but you know I'm biased <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Principles above personalities, don't worry <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Will do! And Here's a BIG HUG! (((((LovingAnyway)))))

You know I love planning this stuff <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> His language is acts of service, EN are DS and RC, so we'll detail his car again, and wash it if it stops raining. He's a southern boy, so I'm going to cook his favorite for dinner, my southern fried chicken, biscuits, mashed potatoes, gravy (from a mix since the chicken is fried), green beans, and cole slaw. D10's making a nice big card we can all write a bunch in. He asked for us to go to the mall this weekend with him to pick out some dress slacks, and we'll put phtos in the frame we gave him last year <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> For the RC we're going to take him to dinner and a movie tomorrow night, to see Pirates of the Caribbean, which we've all been looking forward to.

Thank you for the hug...I'm not wounded, just perplexed and twisting myself around...

Hmmm...sound like somebody I know?

My DH read through the posts with me and talked...came to three really great ideas...too much for me tonight to go into...in fact, one of them relates to something you just posted...so I'll do that one first...then I'm going to bed to get up fresh for work tomorrow (first Saturday, ever)...and maybe I will let these ideas ruminate awhile...

Here's the one I now see in your post I wouldn't have caught had I not been going over those posts with DH...

"the last thing I want to do is cause him more pain. I was just so nervous, scared to say the wrong thing, so eager to get to a truce we could move forward happy from, and I really did think I would be able to do this, I've made it through other "agreements" I never thought I'd make it through."

To cause him more pain...hmmmm...okay, so in reading posts tonight which I related very much to my old self, this martyr thing, which I thought I had put to rest, bounced up again, in a new way. What if this martyr thing isn't just about resentment building...what if...it was how I was a CONFLICT AVOIDER...

Hmmm. I'll let you find that in the quote.

Next thought...what if what we've been taught about unconditional love is really loving by choice....

Harley says there really isn't unconditional love at human level...and that seemed to resonate with me...and then didn't...and then MB posters said that love was a choice...which really resonated inside me...and then faded off a bit, because, heck, THAT's unromantic as all get out...

So tonight...I began to think of loving by choice, choosing to love, as what may be perceived as unconditional, because the beloved cannot earn that choice...their influence makes it easier to make that choice, or harder...but they don't earn the actual choice...kind of smacks, then, of unconditional as we've heard it, doesn't it?

Last thought...we were talking about my idea that all fears were fear of the unknown...wrestling that one around, as we are wont to do, fitting it to the premise and then seeing where it didn't fit...and that led us to childhoods and how everybody has stuff...and how we feel fear in the present, as adults, much the way we remember it in our early time past...like fear is a conducter or a yank-back feature, nearly automatic...and my H said that he thought it was reasonable for everyone to have issues, no matter how the parents were, because we were growing up...we weren't equipped with what we know now...we were kids...

And that snapped it into my head that as a child...infant up...EVERYTHING was unknown...from birth onward, all of it...so it was like total fear, narrowing down, as what we became to know, bits and bytes of it, flowing in...and as we grow up, there is less and less...until adulthood rather jars us back to experiencing everything we thought was known in a new perspective because, ohmygosh, now we're ADULTS...and that journey sort of begins again, with a new twist...

Anyway...the childhood thing really zinged us both...and no, I am not blaming my parents...I know where I learned what I learned, and me the child thought it was normal...accepted those beliefs and behaviors...

Oh, wait...you weren't saying I still blame my parents...that was someone else.

LOL

So, three ideas...just kicking them around...no hard and fast, deep belief, will die for and make everyone else believe with me...

oh...you aren't saying I do that...man, I have a lot of P/A behaviors, don't I?

I'm hamming this up, if you couldn't tell, EO...and of course, HTBH left today and won't hear anything about those three ideas for NINE DAYS...so it's you and me, any time, about anything, if that's okay...and Deserving. Where's Deserving?

Thank you for being here, EO...I like the procrastinator in you...heehee...when it's here.

Purely selfish on my part, btw.

LA

HI, LA, I got up to page 8 in the thread, I'll see how much further I can get this afternoon. I came down with a bad flu and have been resting mostly yeaterday and today. Wow, I see I have a lot more work to do LOL. Lots of judgement over there that I can relate with, but I see it clearer in another's words than my own. I am really getting the separate and equal, and how it takes two people to create the patterns H and I have.

I can totally see what you mean about being a conflict avoider. I think that had a lot to do with my job situation, too, I wanted so badly to move back home, that I beleived that I was capable of this increase in difficulty that came with the work at home position, and then came crashing into reality later. I kept thinking, if I just worked harder, then it will come out fine, up until the day my manager told me I was going to be laid off.

In the Cal sitch, I can see that that was CA to agree to something likewise I had no idea if I could follow through on. And the "cause him more pain," looking at that again, I can't cause pain, it's how someone interprets what was said.

Incidentally, I did bring it up, in a drive by manner, "If I gave California a lot of thought, and realized at this point I really don't know if I can commit to moving, would you want me to tell you?" He didn't get mad at all, he smiled in a kind way and said, "Yes, I would want you to tell me," so I told him that was the case. He replied, "I know if I get a good situation out there, that you'll come out." I did my part, said what I needed to, and if he chooses to believe differently, I don't need to argue, I can let him own that.

Unconditional love being loving by choice, the way you laid it out, that makes perfect sense. Because no matter what you call it, the reasoning behind it, the person is still there of their free will.

I've thought on that some, and think you may be onto something <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Maybe I am taking you too lierally, but I am thinking of someone scared of needles, shots,they know that they won't hurt THAT bad, they've been through the experience before, but they're still scared?

I think just because you and SP are so good with the soft sell, doesn't mean you all need to forever hold yourselves to that standard <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I read the last four pages, a lot to think on, very interesting, thanks for pointing it out! I can definitely see where the CA comes into play, too.

Are you getting through the flu alright? I think summer colds/flus are worse for me because I don't want or allow them...so it feels like a double-whammy.

Happy bday to your DH...I hope your fantastically planned day (very creative and definitely personalized) goes well...with enough time for you to nap and recover.

LA

Thanks, LA, I am doing much better today, I've even been able to cope without Nyquil so far <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> It is really wierd, I usually never get sick, and this time I actually allowed myself to rest all day.

I wished him a happy birthday, too, and look forward to when he gets home <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. I got to do most of what I'd planned Saturday, so Sunday I got to take the day off, and it was funny that H liked getting a chance to take care of me, too, no martyrdom in sight!

Still reading through the PA thread, more reinforcement of helpful thoughts. LA, I know it got confrontational, I guess the best you all can do is move on from here.

Oh, man, I messed up last night SO bad. I want to do better for my marriage, I apologized, and will really get on the stick and figure out how to keep from acting like this again.

The night started off pretty well, it was H's birthday. I was still feeling pretty crappy from the flu, constant coughing, but I was happy, too. D10 and I dropped D5 off at karate and we went to get some practical, low-cost gifts H would enjoy, as he said not to spend much - a bike pump as he'd been looking around town and didn't find one he wanted, and a griddle, because he makes pankcakes Sundays with the girls. He wanted lemon cake, but all they had was chocolate and vanilla, so we picked chocolate instead of tryng another store.

H called me on the cell, and got on me about leaving D5 at karate instead of staying with her. I listen and repeated, said if he knew where I was he wouldn't be so mad, I think he got the drift because he dropped it.

Got home, supervised D10 making the cake, and made salmon because he didn't want the fried chicken. It all came out great. H took the kids bike riding, I didn't go because I still was coughing really bad.

We have neighbors that I was once close with, but I've distanced myself because they have fall down drunk issues with alcohol. I have mad eit clear with H that I don't want my kids ever left over their house. We have a history where H leaves our kids over there with no adult supervision (because the parents are too drunk to supervise) when I'm not home to interfere. I don't call to invite their kids over at all because I wish they'd just forget we're here, but I do babysit their D7 when the father asks me once in a while.

H goes over and asks their D7 to go bikeriding with them and then brings her over for cake. It's 8 by now, so when we're done with the cake I ask her to put her shoes on so I can bring her home while the rain has let up, and it's been off and on raining all evening. I'm tired, I took Nyquil again so I could stop coughing my fool head off LOL. H says, no, he'll take her home later, don't put your shoes on. For a lot of reasons, mostly that I don't want her parents keeping my kids over late another night because we're setting a precedent but also that the kids make a mess when they play together that I'll be left to motivate tmy kids to clean in the morning, and also I'd sleep better without friends visiting, I said, sorry, honey, I'm tired and I'm taking her home now while the rain has let up. H gets a mad look on his face and walks away.

I get back, really drowsy and groggy, and lead the kids through their evening routine, brush teeth and take medicine (D10 has asthma and D5 takes medicine for contipation). They play cards and I stay up as best as I can, then take them up to bed. H has gotten some calls from work, and was trying to get some work done, so we're trying to do this quietly, but the kids are totally wound up. We get upstairs, and the kids keep playing in their bed, instead of settling down. They get into a fight, and I separate them. H comes up at 10, and reads them stories.

Sorry this got so long. My problem here is that H and I have no evening UA time. My POJA solution, which H "agreed" to, was earlier bedtime, 9pm. To facilitate that, I got them to do everything to get ready at 8pm. But now it's 10:30, and H is still reading to them. My boundary is to not be putting them to bed at 10, and I did my part, I should have left it alone and fell asleep. I tried to do that, but I was mad that nothing I say is respected. Looking back, I can't control the results, and should have left it alone, as I usually do.

My confusion came in where I think this is bad for the kids. They slept in until 10 this morning. I just don't think that's good for them, then we will have a struggle to switch them to another bedtime later, why do that to them?

I went in D5's room and waitted a few minutes for H to finish his chapter, and he didn't, so I asked, are you almost done? D10 says, there's only one more page, and H shows frustration, and says he's not just reading the chapter, he's reading the rest of the book. I waited until he finished the page, and then turned the lights off. He turned them back on, we were like little kids <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> and kept this up for a while. I was saying calm things and so was he, like let's not do this to the kids, but it went on. In the end, he locked me out of the room.

I waited a while after he was done until the kids fell asleep, and tried to come to some agreement. He says he agrees the kids need to go to bed earlier, 9:30, and then we'll have 30 minutes until 10 pm before we go to sleep. I feel like this is so totally futile, I don't trust he has any intention of spending any UA time with me, this will just be TV. I wish I didn't make such a big issue of it, because this would take so much follow-through, and he just sees it as controlling.

He said since I took the neighbor girl home, he doesn't want my friend and her son to come over Friday as planned, so now I need to cancel with her. Well, I guess there is no room for double standards, and this is a friend he never was okay with me seeing anyhow, as she is paranoid and he's always felt it will rub off on our kids.

My question is about setting boundaries where it comes to kids. Should I let their dad keep them up until all hours and let them face the natural consequences, or should I protect their sleep with boundaries as sharply as I would guard my own sleep?

Maybe Boundaries for Children would help? I know that boundaries are around YOU...can't really be around child-rearing, because both parents act as one parent...they parent the children...unity; POJA; are you talking consequences for broken agreements?

"I don't trust he has any intention of spending any UA time with me, this will just be TV. I wish I didn't make such a big issue of it, because this would take so much follow-through, and he just sees it as controlling."

I don't hear you speaking your truth, EO...

"I fear you have no intention of meeting our marital need for 15 hours of UA a week. I feel frustrated and thwarted. I don't know your intentions, your goals or feelings about this. Can we discuss it?"

You can't not let their Dad keep them up, read the whole book whether they're awake or asleep...you tried turning off the light; you could have tried dragging them out of their beds away from your H...you can't control, EO.

You can speak. You can have boundaries around you. "I'm hurt to the bone tonight, DH...on your bday. No time for us and I feel rejected, dejected and powerless. I fear for my kids--and I don't even know if it's reasonable or unreasonable fear. I want a partner, H. I just do. I want a teammate and I need your help in figuring out what is going to work and what isn't."

You can speak and ask and listen and repeat and know your own limits...they are the same as the children's...and discern what is good for them from what is good for you...find your premise, your base belief...find out how honest you are with yourself...and then allow that honesty to be shared. If you find some old habitual self-deception going on, no kicks...just up your honesty goal and stick to it.

Natural consequences, EO. If they are tired and drug out...and they want to tell Dad, no, not so much...only one more page...then hear them and validate. Parenting together is the most critical part of raising children...and the toughest...takes a lot of communication, backup, support and encouragement to one another...and you may want to start a thread for you and BTE and others...(wish Jwoman would post again) because I didn't have that in my marriage...I do now...and all I have left is a 16.5 year-old...LOL...

I know putting marriage first, before kids, is important. Really important. I know that has to be a marital agreement, and two individuals' agreeing on that priority list for themselves...

You want to make more time for UA time? Then you're cancelling Friday with that in mind...not paying for one choice with another...tit for tat...no double standards hides a lot of crimes...get to the fears you have with that other family...and listen to your H's perspective...repeat it and know it...check your perception...doublecheck your feelings...know them well...and where they're coming from.

And no, you can't do all this on Nyquil. LOL. Hindsight...was go to bed, rest and tackle a lot more when you have MORE energy and focus.

Coughing is fitful and takes a lot of energy...even when you're sleeping and don't know it...you can't make yourself do well in life when you aren't making yourself a priority.

LA

Thanks for being here today!

I'll take a look. I am trying to be aware not to focus on what the hot-button issue is today, to get to the root, which is that whole power-control struggle we've always had. I know this is where boundaries can help us, but I'm still stumbling, ONE NIGHT I'm off my guard from being sick and taking medicine, and this is where it devolves. That's SCARY to me.

Okay, I can have boundaries around myself, but I don't really have true boundaries around my kids? Still feeling my way around that. I'm not really talking about creating consequences.

This is not his goal. I'm not sure whether to have that as a goal right now or not, because more failure, wow, I'm not sure I'm ready to expose myself. I've been doing better with having NO expectation on time together, enjoying time with myself. He doesn't suggest time togehter.

This is exactly how I felt. I'm in tears now. What does that mean? That I failed, and let myself set an expectation, a hope, a wish? Why do I still do this to myself? Why han't I truly given that hope up yet? What is my payoff? I think my payoff is simply wanting to think I married a man that would enjoy setting aside some time for me. Even though in my head I know I'm no less complete if he doesn't choose to do that. Does it get easier over time?

I usually get out more, so I don't notice being alone as much.

I am looking, and really I don't think my goal is to be "right" here. I'll keep looking, though.

My kids don't do this. They love undivided attention from their Dad, whenever they can get it. I fi follow that to it's conclusion, then at 1 am, 3 am, yes, they may fall asleep on their own, but BTE's expereince with her D3 would tell me differently, that kids know no limit on this, they need their parents to set the limits.

Our plans Friday were to get together with this other family, talking to H today, he insists he's not telling me to cancel, he says that he is willing to tolerate this other family, for me. I tried to explain about POJA. Friday wouldn't be date night, otherwise, it will be time with the kids, which is time with the kids whether another family is here or not, right? But the reason why I am cancelling is to follow POJA, he is not enthusiastic about this other family visiting. I don't have any fears, I don't leave my kids alone with these people, and my friends doesn't confide her paranoid thoughts in my daughters. But I respect H feels differently, that her overprotective parenting of her boy would make my kids feel less comfortable.