MiL passed early this morning. She made it until H and D10 and the family got there, actually taking her last breath as they walked in. I am grateful to have known her, grateful that they got to see her again, and grateful that even in her illness that she mended the rift in the family between the brothers.

And I'm grateful that with all the help you all have given me, I have really been able to make my peace with all this, owning my choices instead of fueling resentment with them. I was given the grace to be able to hear H express his deep regret that we didn't visit earlier without stabbing myself with it and heaping blame on both of our shoulders. I could just listen and be present.

{{{{{{{EO}}}}}}}}

You know you have my heart-felt sorrow for your H's loss, your loss and your children's loss. You've had an incredible three days, woman...

My granddaughter was born yesterday at 4:50pm...six pounds, three ounces. Phoenix Rain. She's beautiful. Her mom went through 36 hours of labor, much like mine with my son, her husband. This birth/death polarity has me reeling a bit.

Your H. I don't know. Seems like locking into predetermined steps you take is all I can think of...then there is no not knowing what to do...only what you hold yourself to doing. I totally understand what you did...no judgment.

Your H committed a crime, EO...he really did...against D10's body and her person. Would you consider her question was from her wishfulness...not about you and your marriage...but about her protection...wanting to feel safe?

Your H gives himself permission to act out when he feels great stress...not speak out...not state and work out. And I'm seeing his example through my own child's eyes...which says, "If you feel great fear and pain, it's okay to inflict that on others."

This was the way I was reared, too...and how I then lived as an adult. Living from my emotions...and in a way, those who lived with me had to live from them as well.

You can't fix his permissions...you can only mind your own. Family counseling...not stepping over this incident because what looks like a bigger one was happening.

To get all of it...that your DS said for his father to not do that to him...and you took DD with you to the store and left him...that your DD then went off with her Dad, without you...just to know and recognize, not to judge right now, 'k?

I know you did offer to go see her, that was your urge, his choice. You heard his regret and saw it for his own...good going, EO.

And about stopping...that he had stopped, didn't escalate...now there is stating...once they return...stating the truth of what he did, what the consequences are (your DD feels angry, afraid and emotional pain from loving her Dad and being used as a stress relief, disrespectful, a cure, a reality check...instead of a person), discussed, acknowledged and worked out aloud...not acted out.

Clarity, not perfection...I know you're doing that.

LA

Wow, LA, congratulations on the new grandbaby.

Today was really hard. I have no clarity. I could type out all the details, but the end result is that what's done is done.

H didn't say that he mishandled this trip, but when I told him that our friends sent their condolences, he got angry and said not to talk about certain details, details that troubled me the most. They didn't go straight to the hospital, they went to SiL's house. SiL had told him that visiting hours were over at 8, and their flight didn't get in until 10pm. THAT'S SO FALSE! NO HOSPITAL WOULD SAY YOU CAN'T VISIT A DYING RELATIVE! THE HOSPITAL CALLED REPEATEDLY IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT, ASKING THEM TO COME, AND NO ONE ANSWERED THE PHONE! WHILE MIL WAS DYING, ALONE! They didn't go until this morning, after I called the hospital, and then the house, to tell them that the the hospital had been trying to reach them, that they needed them right away.

I had assumed that H didn't call last night because cells phones didn't work in the hospital. Once he told me they didn't even go to the hospital last night, I am troubled and confused why he didn't call me.

We went to Disney World a few months ago, and found out they were sold out. He went to the supervisor and asked to be sold a ticket, anyhow, as we'd driven 3 hours. Wouldn't it be that much more important to go to the hospital and ask to be let in?

I am very angry at myself for placating him yesterday, going home. I had checked my intent, it was to ease his pain. I could have done that instead by going on a later flight so H wouldn't have to deal with getting D5's medicine checked. This morning, I booked another ticket after talking to the hospital and learning she was still alive. I called H, and he said fine, whatever you want. He said his sister was very angry that I was coming. But then MiL passed before D5 and I got to the airport.

I'm taking D5 to a meeting tonight, because I've totally lost focus.

Edited to add:
I understand that it is likely that H didn't go to the hospital when his sister told him not to for the same reason I did, not wanting to agitate. That they were all suffering from worry and stress. I made poor choices, too, not to figure out a better solution yesterday that got D5 and I there. Not to call the hospital last night and SiL's house when I didn't hear back. I am glad they got to say goodbye, but that all of our actions prolonged her suffering all night, I am so sad.

Hi EO,

I'm so sorry I haven't been posting lately, and I wanted to let you know that I have still been following along with your thread and thinking of you often.

I don't know what else to say, except that you and your family are in my thoughts.

(((((EO)))))

Happy

Happy, thank you for being here, for your presence. Lately, I've been doing better with the O&H, but he is reeling from his choices, I don't know how I can speak openly when he is so wounded. I am hoping that tonight I can get some of the erspective I had this morning. That we aren't bad people, we are just people muddling as best we can through a situation no one was prepared for.

((((Happy))))

Ears Open,

I just wanted to post something to address your fear that you will set your kids up for failure if you buy them all sorts of over the top gifts...

I came from a family where Christmas gifts were never more than $100 a person. Often they were $50 or less. My husband, on the other hand, experienced a childhood where every Christmas, his parents spent well over $1000 on him. We started dating in highschool and I remeber being shocked walking into his room and finding a huge screen TV (think 50-60 inches), among other things.

Needless to say, despite growing up rich, and having visited Hawaii over 10 times before graduating from highschool, along with being given German sports car for his birthday, and a brand new sportscar for his graduation, (trust me, the list goes on and on), he is the most generous, kind-hearted person I know. He always thinks of other people, and shares what he has with others.

He is the only person I know who has just as much fun in a $500 car (which he bought after his father fell on hard times and had to sell his son's sports car because he couldn't make payments) as he did in the nice car...

My whole point is that it is WHAT you teach your children, not just the things you buy them, that makes a difference. You can teach your children to love others, to share with those less fortunate, to share with their siblings, to be gracious to those who are mean to them, to forgive those that wrong them, etc, and none of this takes money, but it certainly shapes how they will live their life. You can teach your kids to appreciate the things you give them, that you give them things out of love and not obligation, that it is a sacrifice for you to buy those things but that you do it out of sheer joy for their own happiness...

Just because they get nice gifts doesn't mean they will be lazy, or not be able to make it in the real world. My H is the hardest worker I know. He has a tenacity that is undeflatable. When times are tight, which they are right now, he just keeps plugging away and working hard. These attributes are all teachable...

The thing that ruins kids is if you don't teach kids a strong work ethic. If they think life will be handed to them, that will be a problem. But if you encourage them to do their best at school, if you have healthy systems of doing chores and receiving a small allowance, if you build them up and encourage them to set goals/dreams and work for them, you won't have to worry about having a child like Paris Hilton.

Good luck on this...

Dearest EO,

I thought of something I wanted to tell you. A little story to share with you. Last year, my H's grandfather died while I was out of town with my girlfriends. He went into the hospital the night I left, and died while I was in the plane on my way home, so I didn't get to say good-bye. I was sad that I hadn't been there to visit him in the hospital, but my H was actually glad I had been out of town. He said that visiting his grandpa in the hospital, and seeing him so weak and in pain, was so awful that he was glad I hadn't been there.

I can certainly see how your H might not have been eager to see his mom like that, either, especially if his emotions were mixed about her passing.

I don't think that makes him a bad person, or you, either, for not being able to be there. Just two humans, doing the best they know how.

(((EO)))
Happy

Happy

"my H was actually glad I had been out of town. He said that visiting his grandpa in the hospital, and seeing him so weak and in pain, was so awful that he was glad I hadn't been there."
Happy, see, this is where my problem lies. Others deciding what is okay and not okay for me to do, based on their own fear and pain, which is different than my fear and pain.

I didn't put enough faith into POJA. It was uncomfortable for him, so I dropped it. Instead of making that a priority to resolve in a way that I was enthusiastic about, too. I think Ann, my MiL, will forgive me for this.

I am really blessed to have you all to work this out with. My good friend used to be a nun, and had done a lot of ministry with the bereaved, and is really helping me with this. She suggested that I journal my feelings about all this, and share it with H at a more neutral time, like maybe 6 months from now.


LA

Family counseling. Awesome idea. Also, at one point you said he and his, not sure if that's me miseading it, though. I have two kids, both daughters, 5 and 10. D10 is the one who got into it with her Dad, and the one who went with him to be with her Nana. At that moment in the store when she heard her Nana was dying, she went from withdrawn from her dad to needing his comfort.

Thanks for the link that she brought up divorce because she wants protection. I hadn't made the connection. Thanks for catching how I saw that as all about me. I will learn to see from her eyes, like you did.


Too Sad

Wow, Christmas and Hanukkah toys/budgets. Thanks for the reminder. Hanukkah starts tomorrow night, the lighting the Menorah ritual will be really comforting, and feel like lighting a candle for a lost loved one that we did when we took Ann to light a candle for her mom at church.

Hi EO,

I don't think my story was as clear as I was hoping... If I had been in town when my grandpa-in-law was in the hospital, I would have gone to visit him, with my H's blessing. The reason I shared was to tell you my and H's reactions to me not being able to get home in time to see him, because I was surprised by my H's point of view at the time. It wasn't that H didn't want me to go, but that he considered it a blessing that I wasn't able to, whereas I considered it a sadness that I didn't get back in time.

I was thinking that maybe your H, like mine, isn't comfortable with hospital visits, either. I wasn't saying that he should decide for you, but that his own fear and pain might have been the reason he didn't get to the hospital right away.

I am so glad to hear that you have a dear friend in real life to work through this with you. And I'm still keeping you in my thoughts, too!

(((EO)))

Happy

I had tried to be understanding and compassionate from a state of pain and confusion, but it was more than I could bear. Last night, I asked the questions that I've needed the answers to, even though it was painful for him. I understand how very difficult what I asked him was. I am grateful that he was willing to share.

I have been able to make peace with our choices. I think Ann will forgive us, too. In the end, the details weren't what created the disaster, and doing things differently wouldn't have brought her back.

He was so angry on the phone this morning. He saw it as me making him justify his actions, actions he hasn't made peace with yet.

My hope is that the O&H he shared will help him in his process, too, when he's ready.

EO

Sorry I was so slow in responding. I don't get on line much, if at all, when R's home on his days off.



<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

My GOSH, EO!! That's horrible! I can understand why you'd be in shock, after seeing your H physically attack your DD like that.



Its wonderful that she felt empowered enough to speak up for herself. What did you end up doing or saying to your H about it? I confess, I haven't read beyond this post, yet. So you may have already answered these questions. I'll catch up, after I finish this reply.


Kids are very intuitive. Just because she hasn't heard you say anything outloud about the possibility of divorcing her dad, doesn't mean she doesn't know the tensions run deep. And in a society where there are so few couples that stay together, anymore. Its easy to understand why divorce is at the forefront of children's minds, when they go to school with kids from broken homes, and feel things are not as they should be in their own home.




I'm so sorry to hear about your MIL. But, and I'll apologize if this sounds callous, I hope you didn't let your H off the hook, because of his mom's health deterioration. As awful as it is, its no excuse for physicaly harming your DD.

(((EO)))

Tama

EO

I'm caught up now.

I'm so sorry for your loss. I hope you can find peace with all now. I know you struggled in finding your "place" during MIL's health struggles.

I don't know what else to say. I agree with everything LA and Happy have said.

Just wanted you to know I'm here and thinking of you.

(((EO)))

Tama

I talked to H that night, I told him, I understand that it may some time, because he was dealing with his mom dying, but that we would need to address this, that it wasn't okay to put our hands on the kids. I like LA's suggestion of family counseling. I know that it is a major life changing event, to lose a parent, so I think I will wait to discuss it until he's on the mend.

I'm leaving now to get him from the airport, we're going to have a memorial service Tuesday. I am glad that I was able to resolve my open issues before he got back, so he can come back to a peaceful environment. I was a little nervous when tensions were flaring, but I think we'll be okay.

Tama, thanks for the hugs! Just what I needed!

I did goof on the child genders...I read DS5 somewhere and got confused. Two daughters. I KNEW that...ack.

I remember how much you cared for your MIL...what you wanted and how it was woven into your marriage...keep your lines clean for your own grieving and knowing...acceptance...'k?

Think about the lessons...reacting from our emotions...and how unsafe that is for anyone...because it comes down to your own boundaries, awareness and choices, doesn't it?

If you're still kicking your own butt over your own choices...you'll surely be kicking his over his own...regain your intent, purify it, and stop kicking any butt, 'k?

Would it have been acceptable, what your H did, had it been a stranger off the street?

Did you talk with D5 and find out how she felt?

Your D10 didn't fear less...she is owning what isn't hers...her father's feelings...self-sacrifice means not knowing boundaries...you were reared similarly...how does it look from the outside?

LA

I'm with LA: No more butt kicking! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Is it time for another group hug around here or what?!?! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

If you'd like to share with us something you loved about your MIL, or a memory of her, I'd be honored to read it.

(((EO)))

Happy

LA, once i got the clarity I needed, there was no more butt-kicking. H came home to a kick free zone <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> We went to my office party, and had an intimate O&H conversation on the way and back. In the middle, H got a pang of fear that I would share his concerns he was having with others, as I had in the past. I explained that I used to have to process his feelings as well as my own, because I felt so responsible for both. No such responsibility now. I don't need to process his feelings now, just accept them. And if I have trouble accepting them, it is a signal to me that I haven't sought to understand as much as I needed. LA, that's what this seek to understand is all about for me right now. I also reaffirmed that I won't share his private thoughts with others, although I encouraged him to do so, to process with friends, too, because there's no shame in any of it.

If it was a stranger, I would have acceptance, not all the distrust. I am glad that I can get to that place with H, too.

D5 is doing well. She was sad at not seeing her Nana again, but we prayed, and we both felt her presence, what a gift!

D10 comes back Sunday. I will talk to H beforehand, and set some boundaries together. He has had that same concern about my behavior in the past, when I used to holler at the kids, so I think we're on the same page at being willing to eliminate this behavior. Then, when she's back, I'll talk with her, let her express her feelings if she wishes, and commit to providing a safe environment for her.

Happy, thanks for the hugs! (((Happy))) H shared story with me last night. She was always so friendly, made friends with everyone. When she talks with you, she gives you her full attention, and truly listens to what you have to say, and will even follow up with you another time and ask you how it went. She gave advice with no expectation that you'd follow it, just sharing things you might want to try. Even when she was unable to remember other important things, she would remember things about my friends, made us all feel special and heard that way. D10 has that gift from her.

When she was in the rehab hospital, she would have them bring her to the nurses station, and sit with them as they worked. When H and D10 and the family got to the hospital, Mom wasn't alone. There were 6 nurses in there, crying. Truly, everyone who met her loved her.

Just gotta add...EO? Your H was attracted to you for these same qualities...your daughter gets it from you...don't step over these parts of you, just 'cuz they got muddled with other parts along the way...know you are like her.

And what a great exercise, HTBH...I enjoy very much knowing I am very much like my mother...what I got from her...through her example.

Sounds like she knew how much presence matters.

What amends did you do for yourself from the butt-kicking, EO?

You stopped your LBs from coming to MB, and going to Al-Anon...what steps will your H take to stop his?

LA

Thanks, LA, I thought on that, and it is comforting to think that I don't just have her shortcomings, but her strengths, too. I see Mom everywhere, in actions people are doing, things people say.

Amends for my butt-kicking. I can commit to not letting things drop that I know I'm not enthusiastic about. To rely on my code AND my gut. To ask the questions I need answered, and continue to let go of the outcome. To know that Mom knew we loved her deeply, no matter where we were.

I am making amends through good self-care. I lost 3 pounds the last week, by not comfort eating, but instead stopping when I'm not hungry. I've been exercising, too. I want to go off of the depression medication, because I haven't really felt a difference with them this time, so my goal is to exercise consistently for a month to get my good chemicals going, and then talk to my doctor about going off the medication.