Last night, I was mostly mad at myself, because after I'd agreed to one thing, I saw that it was another, and I didn't follow thorugh on what I said about not having a big drinking thing at my house in front of the kids.

Thankfully Thanksgiving was very uneventful. For me it was a good experience of loving detachment. At one point, my stepfather and my mom got on my 19 year old brother's friend's case. He goes to a church that they don't approve of, and each side said that the Bible was behind them, and that the other was being closed-minded. I pulled my mom aside and asked them to lay off of him just for today, because it was making my sister and brothers uncomfortable, which I have never done before. I was really proud of myself for being O&H, even though they didn't stop.

I was thinking in my head, I'm going to go one step further and tell my brothers and sister that they can share their O&H about wanting to drop the subject, too, if they choose, but before I said anything, they all said the same thing, no discusion of religion or politics today. Then I watched their boundary enforcement, they stopped talking altogether until my parents dropped the subject. With a loving detachment, not angry or stonewalling. It was so cool to me to watch these teenagers, what an example I got to remember <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Going forward, though, instead of making the best of watching these drinking evenings play out, hoping that my kids don't start loudly commenting on all the the empty beer and wine bottles the way my siblings kept doing, I'm not planning any more holidays at my home until I know that I can provide a kid-friendly environment.

[color:"blue"] This seems to be me. I have been in total denial of the threats and unhappiness that I felt I am just not lovable. How can my H just stop. What am I going to do if I am not married to him? Been his w my whole adult life. He won't listen nor does he seem to care about any of my feelings. Nor does MC intrest him. I do feel powerless. I don't like it. [/color]
[color:"blue"]It is a horrible feeling even tho we talk. Sometimes about the R. I cannot deal with it yet. He did tell he felt like running away. So that was scary since it seems like it is me that he is running from. He also wants a seperation which is in his definition means, going and doing as he pleases and coming home with no questions or reprecusions.

I am going to a Therapist, joined a support group and reading the books. I cannot save my marriage alone. If someone doesn't love you and justify's all the misery they feel is from the other person its over. I can only do for me now. That is what I am having a hard time working through is what to do for me.Lonely is a bad place to be and with the holidays it gets worse. [/color]

Moonflower, welcome to MB! Lonely is a bad place to be. I was relieved to read in HNHN reassurance that it is good to be around cheerful family and friends. Our lives have been so full of anger and arguing for so long that we need to balance it by putting ourselves in some happy situations, to let our chemicals get back to normal.

LA had given me a great suggestion to find things that I like to do. To spend some RC time with me. So that I'm not reinforcing in myself the idea that I get from H that I'm no fun to be around.

I read that you are looking for work, too. I struggled with that for 3 months, but hang in there, you will find something, then at least you will get 8 hours a day of respite from your situation. How's your self-care going?

EO

I've been wondering how you're doing, so though I didn't read every post, I tried to catch the highlights.

I got to say, wow, you've really had ALOT going on over the last several months! It looks like you've had some great advisors helping you through it.

You amaze me, EO. No fluff, you truly do. You are one of the most gracious and sincere people, I've had the pleasure of meeting. You're a strengthing calm in the eye of the storm.

I just wanted to stop in and tell you, you not only can do it, you already are. And I for one feel honored that you share so much of yourself with everyone here at MB.

(((HUGS)))) and best wishes for brighter days ahead.

Tama

Tama, thanks so much for the kind words! I am so grateful for all the help I've had here on the boards and in real life. BTE gave me the answer a long time ago, to respond instead of react, and LA showed me the how, and Happy and LA the why, but it has taken me a lot of time and encouragement and practice to rely on myself to think through enough to do that.

Hey, EO...HTBH, BTE...

I just posted to moonflower on her thread. Look at how you ripple, EO...your very significant life, when shared, resonates...has motion and impact. Your fortitude, desire and self-care matters...and what I privilege for me to see others pointing out the ripples to you.

I'm at a disconnect with life right now...my mother passed away last Sunday...I've been in another life...for a week...and I got home late last night. I'm finding it difficult to be in my married life right now...I was a daughter only for six days...sliding doors.

And I wanted to post to you, caught up on your thread, and have nothing to add right now...I took strength from you, your words, your choices, and I guess, I'm sharing now, to say thank you.

And I wanted you to see me, too.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA

(((LA))) I am so glad to see that you are okay, and smiling even <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Happy posted to Slick last week I think about what Dr. Harley had said in HNHN about it taking women a few days to warm up after time away, that it it is just how we're wired.

Did your son get a trip back home from the service for the funeral? My thoughts and prayers are with you, your family, and your Dad.

Hey EO,

Came across a saying today, though yall over here. Not sure if it applies to you or not, but it was food for thought for me.

BEING HAPPY DOES NOT MEAN THAT EVERYTHING'S PERFECT, IT MEANS THAT YOU'VE DECIDED TO SEE BEYOND THE IMPERFECTIONS!

Hi everyone,

I feel like I have all this catching up to do!

BTE: Loved that quote! Thank you for sharing with us. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Moonflower: Welcome to MB! LA and EO are two marvelous ladies for you to be chatting with -- I think you've come to the right place!

Tama: I was still lurking when you were posting earlier this year, but I learned a lot from your threads, too, and I'm grateful that you're back so I can tell you! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA: It's so good to see you again! (((LA))) I'm thinking of you!

EO: HI! You've got such a wonderful gathering on your thread lately! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Could you clarify this for me? I'm not sure what you mean here. How did what you agree to become something else, and how did you not follow through?

(BTW, I was super impressed that you chose NOT to buy the beer at the grocery store. So brave!)


Wow again! I'm so proud of you! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> (Not to nitpick you or anything, but were you also feeling uncomfortable? Did you speak for yourself too or just your siblings?)


How incredible! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thank you so much for sharing these beautiful examples. I'm feeling really inspired right now!

Hugs!
HTBH

"Last night, I was mostly mad at myself, because after I'd agreed to one thing, I saw that it was another, and I didn't follow thorugh on what I said about not having a big drinking thing at my house in front of the kids."

To clarify, H had asked me to coordinate with my mom and grandpa this year, because he was having hard feelings about his brother, so it was just my extended family this holiday. We'd decided on a restaurant, and H agreed when we were all out the extended family together. But then, last minute, he said he wanted me to host dinner here. We had a very intimate moment where he shared his memories, and why it was so important to him that we have dinner home instead of a restaurant. I told him, I suggested the restaurant because it felt more neutral there, if anything went wrong, like someone gets mad or insulting and starts a big argument, I could just take the kids and go. I would be willing to host dinner here at home if it's not going to be a big drinking event. He said that Thanksgiving isn't a big drinking thing, of course that would be fine.

The next day, he bought a bunch of beer and wine, when only him and my stepfather drink for the most part. He put it all in the fridge, but said, of course they wouldn't drink all that. I could have cancelled with my family, but didn't and I was mad that I wasn't consistent. I told him what I didn't want to happen, and then I stood by and watched it happen. Thankfully, it didn't get ugly this time.

Thanks for the kind words! That is a good question, I was uncomfortable, too, and it would have been O&H to share that.

My first appointment with Dr. harley is tomorrow, and I'm nervous and excited. I don't feel as hopeless as I did when I called. I filled out the Love Bank Inventory, and I'm really high on H right now. My biggest fear is that I don't have as much trust as I want in the changes I have made yet, separate and equal, I need to be consistent over time.

Oh, I see what you were saying: That you upheld your part of the bargain regarding Thanksgiving dinner even though H didn't uphold his, right?

I totally see how you would be angry! And kudos to you for seeing your choices, your power, despite the choices H made.


Don't get me wrong -- I think it is AWESOME that you said anything in the first place! I am very impressed! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Wow, congratulations! I'm excited for you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I've followed along on AmI's thread a little, and from what I hear, it sounds like Dr. Harley is amazing. I hope the appointment goes well!

Hugs,
HTBH

EO

I understand how hard it can be to look within for the courage, strength and determination you need to get through difficult marital situations. Its so much easier to look for someone else (preferrably our spouses <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />) to lean on and blame for not having found the needed solutions.

But you ARE courageous and strong. And I've seen your determination through situations that would make some of us (like me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />) go running scared with our tails between our legs.

I believe in you. No matter what decisions your H makes along the way, about splitting up/moving to SC without you and the kids, you are a succeeder (if its not a word, I'm coining it for you <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />). You're a wonderful and intelligent woman, wife and mother.

Lots of hugs
Tama

Happy


Thank you for the kind words! Its wonderful that you found MB. I've learned so much from the posters and material from Dr. Harley. I don't know anything about your sitch. I have alot of catching up to do. But if you have a thread, I'll check it out.

Best wishes!
Tama

Hi Tama,

You're welcome! I'm so glad I found MB. I refer to the books (I have HNHN and LB) all the time, and I have learned a TON from the wonderful posters here. It's been such a blessing for me!

I do have a thread.. I haven't posted on it much lately <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> but I'll bump it up in case you'd like to read it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hugs,
Happy

I'm so glad that you guys found each other <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I spoke to Steve Harley, and he is so amazing to talk to! He has so much energy, I could feel the motivation through the phone. I didn't ask about Plan A/Plan B, because I really feel like I've put a lot of distance between myself and my breaking point again. We talked quite a bit about the weight/lifestyle issue, because that was the issue that I've really made the least progress with this last year. He really explained it in a way that I understood it much better than I have before. It's not that my body is faulty, it's just really efficient with the fuel I give it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> so I need to work harder to compensate. I know that sounds simple, but I really had a paradigm shift as we talked. This is something that I can be successful with and feel good about. Not just a weak point. It helped me so much that I listened to Harville Hendrix's audiobook of Getting the Love You Want these last few days, and really understand that this doesn't have to be forever a sad failing of mine. He gave me homework on this, to make a list of lifestyle changes I am committing to, and a schedule of when I will exercise.

We also talked about Recreational Companionship. H and I have our once a month MC session tomorrow morning, so I'm going to print out the RC inventory and bring it with me.

He gave me homework, too, to fill out H's love busters questionnaire and then go over it with him, and ask him if I have it right, or what is incorrect. I feel so motivated, that I really can remove the obstacles that I still put in the way. I am so grateful to all of your support here, because these ideas were not new and foreign to me anymore, they really seemed like things that I can accomplish. As a gift to myself, like Hendrix would say <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

EO

That's so wonderful about your call with Dr. Harley! Don't they say finding the motivation is half the battle?

How did your H feel about the call? Have you talked to him about it, yet?

Hugs
Tama

Well, I talked to him briefly on the phone after work, but he was going out with his friend tonight. When he came home, he was already inebriated, and mad at me for not having the kids ready for bed on time, so I'll wait for when he's not angry.

That sounds really outward-focused, huh? Let me rephrase. I chose not to discuss it tonight, as I didn't have his full attention, but I look forward to the opportunity to discuss it with him <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Edited to add: I am surprised right now that I didn't listen and repeat, because that is really getting to be second nature to me. I said, "I know that there is something specific that I want to say right now, but the words aren't coming to me," and left it at that. Now, on the computer, I found the words, from TooSad earlier this week.


In my own words, for drive by tomorrow, "I am hearing that you don't like my character. I understand that you don't like my behavior, and I am working on that. But when you put down my character, it hurts me. What do you think about sharing your displeasure in another way?" I'm not ready to share that, because really, I'm not that hurt personally tonight, because I know that it's not about me, and I know that I do a great job with the kids. But I know that I don't always have a huge reservior of tolerance for this stuff yet, either.

So I'm thinking maybe this is more than a drive-by, that to be really O&H that I need to share with him that even though I can take the jabs every now and then, I have a vision of us both creating an atmosphere of tolerance and joy and appreciation for one another, would you be willing to work towards that?

EO



WOW. You know you're doing a great job at handling these situations and finding your empowerment! KUDOS <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />



Its easy, real easy, to forget new learned behaviors/tools in the heat of a moment. Be easy on yourself. You're doing great!



I'll admit your thread is the first time I ever heard about the "drive bys". But if I understand them correctly, aren't they supposed to be more of a throw out there statement that the person they're given to can choose to hear or let go by? The one you mentioned above sounds more like the beginning of a discussion to me. Like something you would want a response to. But I may have it wrong.



Oh, well, maybe I wasn't off after all. But you got there on your own, without my imput! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

HUGS!
Tama

I have to agree with Tama on this one:



I may be off, but I thought that drive by was sharing, open honest, not expecting or asking for anything in return?

The above is a question, if he says no, are you prepared? Do you have expectations of his answer? Kinda like the other thread where she asked her dh if he had 25 women to choose from would he choose her again? Immediately, I felt kinda bad for the guy, set up. She had expected him to say no dear you are the only one... Not necessarily his truth. Even if he would have chosen someone else, if given 25 women to choose from, doesn't mean that he would today.

What if you left the question out?



This sounds more like a drive by.. just your feelings, asking nothing in return from him.

Hi EO!

I'm so glad your call with Dr. H went well! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> He sounds like an amazing man!


I love this! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I'm with Tama, I wouldn't be too hard on yourself for not listening and repeating this time.. If it's getting to be the exception rather than the rule, that's GREAT progress! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

And I agree with both Tama and BTE that your suggested drive-by does sound like more than a drive-by.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Question for you.. Does H tend to say these hurtful things when he's drinking, or is this something he does all the time? I'm thinking that, if this is related to the drinking and not how he normally talks to you, then this isn't something you're going to be able to negotiate with him, anyway, not while he's still drinking actively (since whatever he agrees to while sober is likely to go out the window once he starts drinking).

So it might be better to approach it more like a drive-by, to share your truth with him and let him know how you are affected by his drinking without trying to negotiate, and then I would use boundary enforcements to protect myself if/when it happens again. (**Disclaimer**: I don't have a whole lot of experience with alcoholism, so if this is not what they recommend in Al-Anon, then please tell me!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />).

Which reminds me.. When you said the other day that he sleeps better when he's not drinking.. Have you mentioned that to him? I'm thinking that a little drive-by about his sleeping problems might be a way for you to bring a little reality to him, let him know that his drinking does have consequences for him and for the rest of the family.

Again, I'm not an expert at all, but it does seem like it might be good for you to share with him how his drinking is affecting you and the girls. Denial is a powerful thing, and if you don't say anything, he might be able to tell himself that you aren't aware of the consequences (or he might not even be aware of them himself!).

Now, if he tends to talk to you this way even when he's not drinking, then I would think some negotiation would be in order. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

FWIW, if you're going to negotiate, I like this: "when you put down my character, it hurts me.** What do you think about sharing your displeasure in another way?" better than this: "I have a vision of us both creating an atmosphere of tolerance and joy and appreciation for one another, would you be willing to work towards that?"

**I would suggest "I feel hurt" rather than "you hurt me," but I guess that's a little nitpicky, hm? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Thanks so much for sharing with us -- it means a lot to me! I agree with Tama -- I know you can do this, and I'm inspired by you!

Hugs! Happy