hi again. it's been awhile since i have writen. the last time i wrote it was about fh wanting me to drop cs and let om disappear. it all started over om's w cutting oc's hair. well since then they trimmed it again because they were upset that fh didn't remind him that he was supposed to have grace last thanksgiving. so when this thanksgiving rolled around she informed him that it was her holiday and he got upset that she did not tell him when it was his visit last year. for the record we had oc ready to go last year and he just never showed up. just wondering why he would think it is her responsibility to make sure he knows his schedule?

anyway to the real issue i am contemplating. after fh left him a voice mail about how she was upset that they cut oc's hair again and if they were going to continue at least they could learn how to do it without hacking it up. om replied with this voice mail "if you don't want me to bother you anymore why don't you have your husband adopt oc and i won't have to pay anymore cs that way i won't be involved".

now hear is the perplexing part. i am thinking of having our attorney draft a letter and send it to him. i have already spoken to the attorney and he is looking into this matter to make sure it is legal. since over the next 16 years om will pay about $144,000 in cs why doesn't he just give me a check for $35,000 now and i will adopt oc and he can walk away.

rational being that he can pay off a loan that size in 5 = 6 yrs the same as a car payment. with interest it would cost him about $44,000 give or take a little and he would save $100,000 grand. we would have enough $ to pay for the attorney's fees, adoption fees, taxes and maybe be able to invest the balance to help cover the cost of the loss of cs and pay for college.

now before everyone goes on the all about money thing which believe me i have tussled with myself. the reality is that the cs is his responsibility period. whether he wants visitation or not. even if fh wanted to drop it she couldn't because the courts view it as oc's right not fh's. the only way he can get out of it now is to either have me (or someone else) adopt oc or he can just drop dead in his tracks. the latter being my preference. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> fh said that it sounds like i am doing it for the money.

i am thinking that he wants out of 16 yrs of cs and would walk if that could happen. fh wants him out of the picture. om's w wants om's full paycheck. i don't care if he pays cs as i don't see the $ anyway. for the most part i don't care that he has visitation. that doesn't bother me. only when they throw a fit at my front door do i get involved. but if i am going to take on his finacial responsibility for oc then there should be some compensation to help defer the cost.


so since there are so many hear that have h's paying cs i am asking for opinions on this. i know depending on the amount of time, age of oc and if you had contact or not all plays into it.

Pops,

I will offer my opinion. He does owe Grace that money. And let's face it even if you adopt Grace you have many other children to support and a very shaky health history. Meaning you may NOT be able to support her to through high school much less college. To take away her CS for the chance YOU will survive until her college is a bad choice in my mind.

I would talk with the lawyer about the amount. I am thinking that we are talking about more like 50K or so. Why? At 6% money doubles every 11 years. She is what now, 3-4 which means she it is less than 22 years until she needs money for college. In fact, you need money to take care of her now. So if you take 35K now, and remove lawyers fee's ect, you might have 30k probably not. If you had 22 years before needing the money 30k only turns into 120K, not the 144k he will pay. However, he doesn't have to pay for 22 years but roughly 14 more which means the 30k will be somewhere around 70K when college starts and that assumes that you have not withdrawn money for her support along the way.

Another possibility is to take 35K and make him buy a paid up life insurance policy on you payable to Grace for 100K.

Talk with your lawyer, you cannot leave her unprotected financially, you cannot leave your other children unprotected either due to his and your W's decisions.

Frankly, this is about Grace, not you, not money, not OM, and not FH. Make sure she is protected and you are compensated appropriately for the costs if you do decide to adopt her.

I think you idea has a lot of merit, and it would make everyone's life easier if it could be done. Protect the child.

God Bless,

JL

Pops I email a guy that was "sort of" in the same boat as you are talkinga about doing.

His story is he got a one night stand pregnant, didnt want the child, and had no plans on having C with woman or child. Instead of paying CS he paid her one lump sum $30,000.00 to OW to help with the cost of raising the child and then she agreed to let him TPR. To me that is alot of money but if you do look at it, it did save him alot of money.

To me it sounds like the F does not want to have anything to do with the child just wants out of CS. I would say go with it, Get what you can out of him, put it away for her college. I remember from your other post that you truely care for the child and was willing to raise it on your own, and I think she will be much happier being raised with 2 loving parents then to be in the middle of a ongoing battle.

I wouldnt worry about what money you would be losing, money and wether she would be protected is not the most important thing, being in a family that truely loves her and making a happy home is the most important.

We never know what the future is going to throw at us, health or fincially but every fact she will be your daughter and you will find a way. Dont let that stop you.

pops~ I know you know I already answered at our other haunt, and while I came down fairly similiar to what T-storm wrote... JL brings up some very valid points, (when doesn't he? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> ). I still say go for it, monetary payment or not, BUT if xom is willing to pay out, then I'd definitely be as penny wise as possible as JL suggests... be as smart about it as possible.

Well take into account that you could always go back and ask for a review to increase child support over the next few years and ask for day care expenses on top of CS.

He should prob be happy to pay a lump sum and a life insurance policy for you to adopt the toddler.

Just a word of warning on the life insurance policy, if you can get him to buy it.

Make sure that YOU are the owner of the policy. If the OM is the owner, he could change the beneficiary at any time, without your knowing anything about it. It would really suck if something happened to you and OM or his wife received the proceeds, leaving Grace out in the cold.

jl thank you for the advice. i really like the life insurance policy. i never thought of that. the reason i choose the number $35 k was because i wasn't so much worried about making sure we got every single penny to equal the 144 k. instead it was a number that i thought he may be able to afford and work with. i will do some pencil work and maybe move it a little higher to around $40 k. i don't really expect a large attorney fee or adoption fee. but the taxes need to be addressed. i think he needs something to feel like he is gaining to make it appealing to him. at 50 k with interest he would be paying 65 - 70 for the loan and probably payments for 7 - 10 years. may not be enough of a savings insentive to make him bite.

i know you are right, this is about grace nad not the rest of us. that is the whole reason for this train of thought. to try and make sure her future is secure, my kids future is secure and dismiss any future "drama" (hate that word) out of everyones lives.

tstorm,,,,,,,, i actually thought of this back when the whole cs deal was being discussed also. i didn't think he would go for it at that time. he was playing the "if i pay i'm involved card". but now that the cs is a reality and i haven't thrown fits he may see the sense in saving some money.

cord,,,,,,,,, that is right the courts send fh a letter every 2 years letting her know that she has the right to go back to court and have his wages reassessed in the case that they can raise his cs.

lady,,,,, thank you, that is a very good point about who owns the policy. i will look into that.

Your right Pops you cant make it to high or he wont go for it, while coming up with a figure just keep in mind that making this daughter truely yours is not about money.

To much bargining back and forth will look like buying and selling a child. Just make sure when it comes time for the court that the judge understands that it is in the best interest of the child to be raised by you and your wife, and the only reason you did ask for some money is because of your age you want to put it away for her college, and it will be the last big act OM will do as her father.

That they would cut a child's hair as revenge on the mother just disgusts me. If you can get them out of your lives, so be it! And if you can get a lump sum on the way out, great. I tend to agree with FH in keeping your family intact and him/them out.

Would we go for something like that, lump sum? In the first few years, def. yes! Now that we've built a relationship with OC, we probably would not, but it would be tempting.

Best wishes.

Next thing, Grace will come home with pierced ears.

Money isn't everything. I have to agree with fh on this.

My humble opinion is to adopt Grace and have a strong family unit. Forget the other family.

Court and attorney fees are sooo expensive.

Do you do things with Grace? Do you bathe her or feed her? Do you play with her at all? Do you play her music that he may not like? Stuff like that?

What I am seeing here Pops, is that you and your wife are having a hard time realizing that Grace's father has just as much right to her as her mom. At any time this man can ask the court for custody, or more visitation or whatever and he has a right to do so. He is her father, paying child support and having visitation. He can ask for more time with her. That said, lets look at the hair issue. Maybe he and his wife didn't like her hair the way it was. As her father, does he not have the right to cut it? If only FH gets to make any/all decisions on this child, why should this man have to pay child support?

If you and FH want no more contact with this man and his wife, no more surprise hair cuts, etc. Then adopt her. Period. Don't sell her on side deals, lump sums, etc. This child is adopted fully and lovingly as yours, for sole reason of love and peace, or not at all. Even thinking of getting money, lump sums, makes my skin crawl.

If you truly love this child and if the contact with her father is stressing your wife and thus your family, then why not just adopt her and be done with it. You and your wife get custody of a child you love, with no interference from the father and his wife. The father and his wife don't have to pay child support. The child gets to grow in a secure loving home. Why not just do it?

Leave money out of it. Your wife no longer wants them involved, they have offered to back out. Why not just do it?

Leave money out of it? Did I read this correctly? From a person who nickled and dimed CS, moved incoming funds from your DH's income into your name to reduce the amount CS your DH would have to pay OC?

Leave money out of it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />


Oh--- OK.

Yes because she is PROTECTING her COM to what is RIGHTFULLY theirs!!!!! COM marriage suffer and lose all their rights while OC benefits and gets everything!!! COM should have first overall protection, they should not have to suffer and go without!

And yes, not saying what you are doing is wrong POPs just making a point. Adoption is all about wanting that child as your own, to raise it like your own flesh and blood!

When any other families want to adopt, they do NOT get any money for it all, even in private adoption, families can pay for medical bills and a few other things like rent in the last couple of months of pregancy and such but nothing more.

If the OW wanted help with money for child she should of took her clothes off for some one that wanted the same thing, and if she could not of afforded to keep the child on her own she should of given it up for adoption,.

If only FH gets to make any/all decisions on this child, why should this man have to pay child support?


Because that's what the OW wants....to make all decisions concerning OC, to raise her exactly the way she wants and to get a nice check so she can assure herself that she has MADE MM responsible...just from MY experience of course. :-)

I am SO all about giving the man the right to back out of involvement with child during pregnancy. Children should not be for sale.

Pops,

I agree that money should be left out of it, but I can also understand if money is a necessity in order for everyone to live. If I were you...I would sit down, figure my bills, and see how you can move forward. I would suggest him paying off some of your bills (ie, credit cards) so that you have the funds to raise the baby effectively. Now if your bills are too high or they are non existent, then just leave it alone, and adopt the child.

When you think of adoption don't look at the money aspect, look at the love aspect and that may help your decision along.

CLO - I think it depends on what the adopting parent wants. If the MM does not want to be involved then I don't think he should be forced. If Pops and his wife want full control of the baby then there is a cost for that. I think that if he adopts the child and he is in financial need, the MM should assit in some form of life insurance, lump sum, etc. However, if money is not an issue, then let it go.

lynn, i totally agree with you.

first if it was me and my h in there sit, we would have dropped it along time ago. not always is money everything. family is what is important. i say let it go. adopt child and dont buy the child from om.

it sounds like wanting the best of both worlds man gets to adopt. dad still has to pay but loses his rights. thats just wrong. and if woman really didnt want cs anyway nothing forcs it. i was in that positionm i did not want cs noone told me he HAD to pay. you dont want dad to have rights then you dont make him pay.

good for ypou lynn.

i really feel that if you want to adopt oc why would you make om pay for that. i think that is wrong.
i know when people adopt children through the state they still get money fromn state for those kids. i think that is wrong to. if you adopt them there yours you should be responsible for them in all ways from that point on.

also making om pay seems to be a way to still keep himin picture cause some day that child could find out espically with li policy. that would not be good i dont think.

hmmmm, how would I feel about my parents knowing my father couldn't get along with my mother so much so that he walked away and my mother took a "settlement" to she didn't have to deal with my father either. I would have much more respect for both if they just walked away from each other to raise me in a sane situation and father sent money if he wanted. If he sent no money, well, I would respect my mother more for going it alone....but to take a settlement to keep my father away? It's never about the money with the children. When two people get divorced the children do not care how much Dad payed in child support or who couldn't agree on what, just that Dad loved them and participated in their life on some level. This child may never have any respect for the father in this case, but I think the mother will lose some respect also from OC if she takes a "deal" on the child to get what SHE wants. JMHO!

But lets not forget it was not the mother that said I cant get along give up your rights....

the father is the one wanting out.....