And since my friends on iloveulove dot com aren't around much these days, I'm going 2 post an edited version here for feedback. I don't want this 2 degenerate in2 a bashing thread, though. I love my W (though neither one of us has professed that 2 the other in a long time), so I want 2 compose a thoughtful reply.

I know what I want 2 say, but I want 2 hear your carefully considered suggestions before I reply.

I'm not going 2 wait more than an hour or so before I do reply, though. Never going 2 let this kind of thing fester again...


"You asked me what I would want for mothers day...
What I would like Is for our relationshipe to be
secure enough for you to really be able to trust me
to be who I am, which means, talk to and work with who
I need to regardless of past troubles... I know this
is a lot to ask but it is really hard for me to have
to worry about where I go and what info I need to get
things I need done for OOSP.. often I find the one
person I am not to have contact with would be the most
helpful...Do you think we will ever get to this place?"


On the whole, a very honest 2uestion, I think.

It is un42nate, then, that I'd still like 2 beat Rat Meat 2 a pulp for his interference in our M. And I think that is because it's been impossible 2 separate the sin from the sinner, because all I've ever known is the sin.

-ol' 2long

You guys are 2 slow! I already replied!:

"I realize how hard it was for you 2 ask me this. I appreciate the honesty in how you've been feeling. As for Mothers Day, well, I'm going 2 have 2 think about this some more before I can answer fully, so I think that Mother's Day is far 2 soon for this. I am not comfortable with you continuing any relationship with RM. Problem is, I can't separate the person from the interference in our marriage that he participated in, because I do not know him and was never given the chance 2 "accept" him as your friend, because the depth of your relationship was always kept secret from me. And so, while I can usually separate my reaction 2 selfish, thoughtless behavior from the person I perceive is perpetrating that behavior, such that I don't "hate the person" but only their actions, I only know RM through his negative influence on our relationship - and so I identify him with his actions.

I would also like our marriage 2 be a secure and rewarding relationship for both of us. I have wanted 2 ask you if you'd be interested in starting marriage counseling again. Sure, counselors can't tell you what 2 do, but they might help us break some communication barriers and help us determine what we want our relationship 2 look like from here on out.

Thank you for sending me this message. The honesty is appreciated very much."

-ol' 2long

well 2long,

It seems your wife is asking for the one thing that you couldn't do.

She is asking to have contact, talk to and work with RM, and for a mother's day gift at that.

Chilling note to you, I agree. I don't know what to tell you. I would personally be floored if my H asked this of me.

No advice, just (hugs!). So sorry you have to go thru this, as what she is asking is exactly the opposite of what you need for full recovery. She just doesn't get it, does she? I'm not bashing her, and it is sad that she doesn't seem to realize that she needs to make a few sacrifices to keep the marriage. NC seems to be a reasonable request. I am sorry, I know this must hurt. You have been a saint.

Blessings and best of luck.

Love in Christ,
Miss M

The thing that irritates me the most about this is that she uses it as a Mothers Day gift request.

Husband: "What would you like for Mothers Day dear?"
Wife: "I'd like you to remove your heart from your chest and let me stab it with this pen."

2long,

Very sad that your W would even send this, it seems as though there must still be feelings there. I thought you did well thanking her for her honesty, and she seemed to have some respect, not sure if that is the right word, in order to ask you that. That being said, I would be extremely hurt in the same position and would ask her to be honest with you about the reasons for contact. I don't know anyone that is not replacable at work, it seems almost silly to say that this is the one person that could help her. I hate to say it, but it doesn't look positive.

Good luck!

Gosh, 2, this is close to my recurring nightmare.

Aside from asking permission to continue contact with her former (assumed former) lover, it sort of sounds as if she is offloading or bargaining away some guilt at continued/recent contact. OK, I admit I’m suspicious after having lived this for a decade.

As you know, I have explored this very possibility myself. The answer always comes up no contact or no M, for me.

She had sex with OM. She lied and cheated and lived a secret life with and for OM for years and years. Contact of any kind is not in the pull down menu for me. None.

Besides, what career related stuff can he help her with? I mean, quantitatively, what benefit other than emotional connection via a shared interest will she actually receive? But this emotional connection is the problem in the first place.

This would be nothing more than workplace contact. And you know that is a very bad thing. Nothing good ever comes of it.

The pregnant question is, “Do you think we will ever get to this place?”

My answer would be, “Yes indeed, when RM is out of the picture once and for all. I very much look forward to getting to that place.”

I need to chew on it a bit more.

With prayers,

PS: I was ATOP this morning but didn’t see you there.

I liked you response 2long, and I am so very proud that you are sticking to your "truth".

Because of the gentleness and sensitivy which is you, I know this must be very hard for you.

Maybe when she see's the strength you hold, and that you will not back down she will finely get it. God, I hope for her sake she doesn't lose you, but more than that I hope in trying to save this marriage you don't lose yourself.

Still, you trudge on for the sake of your marriage and your family. You are my hero, and I don't care if I get in trouble for saying that.

This place is tearing my heart out this week.

2long,

I think you are a very smart guy and a very nice man. However, in this instance I think you should be careful how much you allow your kindness to influence your actions here.

To be honest with you I am very shock by the request made by your WW. And yes she is a WW. I know you say no bashing but I have to call a spade a spade. Have no doubt about it, your WW is asking for your blessing to resume her A with OM. It is obvious that she has been pining for him for a while and is not content with a relationship of two.

Either your WW does not understand the pain and trouble cause by her to you, your children and your M or she does not care enough to prevent the same from happening again. She shows a complete disregard of your feelings. Honestly, this does not bode well for your sitch.

Either you give in, in which case you may as well give up on your M or at least one with a faithful (loving) wife or you don’t, in which case your WW will most likely feel that she must settle (for second best in her mind?) and give up on Rat Meat (her true love?). Ouch, this does not look good.

No Contact means No Contact, 2long. There is no short cut to this. You can’t give up on this point, unless your M and self-respect mean nothing to you.

As others have said, your WW uses your overture to give her a gift for mother’s day, your kindness, to try to manipulate you into giving her carte blanche to resume her A with OM. And yes, that’s exactly what would happen. Do not be fool by her diversion tactic of WW needing to talk to OM for work purposes. It is nonsense. And WW is counting on your gullibility, as all WS count on gullibility of their BS, to believe her words.

I must admit your WW is a bold one. Your WW is clearly insulting your intelligence by making this absurd and callous request. You know better 2long. You know better. The only question is whether fear or reason will dictate your next move.

You know what to do.

God Bless.

This is what I was referring to, and the kindness in your reply to her.

I'm just wondering

how true is this



is he REALLY that ~unique~ in her field that if he died there would be NO ONE else capable of helping her with her work?

Pep

... because it sure as hayul smells like horse pucky to moi

Pep

YOU MISTER MARS MAN

need to be crystal clear

"I will NEVER accept RM returning into our lives."

Pep

It occurs to me that I've never seen 2long's story. Is there a thread link to it?

Sorry to distract.

I just found this - but you did a much better job of it than I could have anyway.

There are some things that still need to be said - or discussed between the two of you.


When she says "trust me to be who I am"

That SOMETIMES means "do what I want to do without regard for your feelings."


You need to be honest too - if contact will never be OK, she needs to know she has a choice to make. We seldom get EVERYTHING we want.

Be honest about it - don't let her think someday you'll change your mind if you know you won't.

You can tell her "I will never be OK with you haveing contact with him. You may have to make a choice to get what you want most. I acknowledge your right to choose, but please recognize mine too - You can have a friendship with him, or a marriage with me, but not both. I am not willing to stay with you if you want to communicate with him."

Of course, these are suggestions. You know the drill.

SS

PS,
I dont' know if we could ever get a better example of why continued contact won't work than we got this week.

SS

She is asking now instead of sneaking, as in the past. That means she is at least worried to do it behind your back and would like it to be okay with you (she doesn't know yet that will never happen, so she still holds some hope you will allow it). Might be one positive sign in this.

So she is worried to not get your approval first. This is a good sign, isn't it?

Forgive my sarcasm in advance.

"Honey, thank you so much for the email. I think what we really need to do is to get the three of us together in a room and discuss all aspects of what happened. I mean, he could tell me direct all the things that you have had trouble with saying, you know, the real dirty stuff. Perhaps with his loving and caring suggestions I can begin to understand why I cannot grasp the obvious benefit of sharing you with other men. I suggest that that the three of us meet on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays for a round table discussion (I’ve always liked that term). On Tuesdays and Thursdays just the two of you get together so that you can each fully explore one another. I just know that it will be good for us sweetie. Remember, Saturdays and Sundays are reserved for just us. I can’t wait to fully grow as a human being in this new environment. After all I want what is best for you because I love you. I want you to know that I understand that for some women, one man is not enough. Onward then, to greater heights, longer orgasms and true love. It just doesn’t get any better then this, Happy Mothers Day."

Me thinks it time for a new plan.....

Mr. G

I also think that you need to be clearer about no contact for life. In the email you sounded like you may be open to it at some point, maybe you are. I KNOW I am not okay with any contact with any former A partner.

I think it is good that she was honest enough to tell you what she's been thinking. If you reject her request does that mean she will do it any way...or may already be in contact.

I heard Dr. Harley say that some comfortable marriages fail just because they lack passion. It takes active steps to foster a more passionate marriage. I think that Harley would be opposed to Schnarch's version which is heavy on the differentiation concept. I could be wrong, though.

Your wife seems very into having an independent life. She wants her way. She'd like to go back to the time when she had you both and continue to eat cake indefinitely....convinced that it is all because it is necessary for her career.(?) I remember you saying that they are two of only a handful of people who do what they do...or some such, right?

Been busy with work (yea!!!), so I just have a 2ple minutes.

She replied just now:

"Thanks for your honesty... ...not sure what else to say."



Me neither, frankly.

*Pep: RM is an idiot, even from my objective viewpoint as not a member of their field. Perhaps a smooth-talking idiot, but an idiot nonetheless. I helped them write a paper several years ago, and his contribution was pathetic and not rigorously scientific at all.

and so, the contact is far less for professional reasons than it is clearly for personal ones. I don't think my W has accepted the gravity of her own choices all this time, and this is simply an effort 2 legitimize their "friendship" by somehow forcing it 2 be no more than that - very much like a friend of ours having drinks with the FOM 2 prove 2 herself that she wouldn't have another A.

It is definitely true, though: I won't accept RM in our lives ever. Life is 2 short, and I'm way 2 old! (and the A lasted 2long).

I had a small salad for lunch. Stomach is more than a bit unsettled.

Yet, I'm feeling a sense of great relief at the same time. Honestly, though I'd love us 2 seek counseling for this, certainly rather than condoning contact starting this weekend(!), I don't see it happening, frankly.

But maybe I'll be freed up 2 pick and choose where 2 go for my vacations from here on out?

-ol' 2long

Maybe your tag line has it right.

SS