Yep!

Redhat and his new bride were at the MB get 2gether last year! She's a cutie!

I gave them a ride back 2 their hotel in my old VW pickup! And they didn't even need tetanus shots after! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

-ol' 2long

Yeah, 2long, are you going to Baltimore?

GC

Hey RH,

Long time no hear. Been busy, hmmmmm.....?????!??!?! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

L.

Hey 2l

You say your W is in withdrawal.

I don't se much spoor of that TBH.

Squid in withdrawal was an emotionally deliquent tigress with sociopathic tendencies. She cried for OM with wracking sobs, then felt increasingly guilty for feeling so bad about what she was coming to realise was a selfish delusion. That would make her turn on ME and the kids because she didn't know what else to do with all that confusion and guilt.

After a time she 'crashed' when all her entitlement and rationalisation crashed about her ears. That took about four months.

So many FWS follow a similar template.

Do you see ANY of that in your W 2long ? I see only a mildly annoyed restraint in her. I see zero recognition of the disrespect ongoing contact is for you. No active commitment to you or your marriage.

What I see is a woman doing pretty much what she wants, and what she wants is the comfort of marriage to you with zero responsibility for maintaining it. A total freeloader.

She doesn't 'get it' so much that she probably doesn;t even think her request of you is unreasonable.

I believe 2long that you are interpreting spoor and evidence through the twin filters of hope and MB learning, but 2l to ME - an impartial observer - your conclusions are made from such slight evidence that you would call them FAITH in another argument.

My mom had a saying which is true : " what you DO is what you care".

What has she done for you lately 2long ? Do you feel appreciated ? Loved ?

Or tolerated as a necessary inconvenience ?

What needs to change is NOT your interpretation of teeny changes in youe wife's open hurtfulness of you as very positive moves.

It is time for you to admit to yourself that you are content with the low level of commitment from your W if that is true. As I have said before thats OK. Your boundaries are YOURS, not what anybody else would tolerate.

But PLEASE don't delude yourself that she is committed to you or contributing to your healing or dignity in any meaningful way, because she isn't. If you're going to tolerate her contribution, at least admit to yourself that such is what you are doing. She's had YEARS to commit to you if she wanted to. YEARS. This is how it's most likely always going to be 2long.

ALl blessings.

2Long, I'll try my best to keep "religious things" out of this response. If I fail, forgive me if you can.

I just now saw your thread, so it's too late to offer suggestions to a "response," you've already responded. Therefore I'll just offer some comments for your consideration, evaluation, assessment, and questions, and comments, actual or rhetorical.



"often I find the one person I am not to have contact with would be the most helpful"

Gee, I'm sorry, I didn't understand that she thinks it's okay to continue a relationship of any kind with the "knowledgable" person who also raped and brutalized her child repeatedly and has neither repented of his actions nor sought humble forgiveness for his heinous selfishness. His "other knowledge" is more valuable than his ACTIONS.

Puke! Vomit! Barf! Hurl! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

He certainly WILL be the "most helpful" in ALL areas. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

2long, when was the last time that ONE person was indispensable to anything? I'd suggest about 2000 years ago, but that person was more than "just human," so I'll simply ask the question relative to ANY human, let alone RM.



Just out of curiousity, your "field" is geology, but it is not, perhaps, a "god" to you. What is her "field" that is elevated to "godhead" in her life? What is it about HER "field" that is "more important" than anything else in her life?




Okay, 2long, I'll offer up a comment after quoting from your opening post....
""You asked me what I would want for mothers day...
What I would like Is for our relationshipe to be
secure enough for you to really be able to trust me
to be who I am, which means, talk to and work with who
I need to regardless of past troubles... I know this
is a lot to ask but it is really hard for me to have
to worry about where I go and what info I need to get
things I need done for OOSP.. often I find the one
person I am not to have contact with would be the most
helpful...Do you think we will ever get to this place?"


[color:"magenta"]On the whole, a very honest 2uestion, I think.[/color]"

Honest? Are YOU "fogbound" or an "eternal optimist?" How DOES one "evaluate the facts?"

"Reward her honesty?"


2long, the FACTS do not change. Only the "interpretation" of those facts can change, and THAT "interpretation" has a LOT to do, perhaps ALL to do, with the presuppositions and assumptions embraced BEFORE attempting to evaluate the FACTS and the data.

For example, you interpret fossils from an evolutionary presuppostion. I interpret the very same fossils from a creation presuppostion. BOTH presuppostions are based in FAITH, not in "scientifically or experimentally or currently observable" FACT.

You are doing the same thing with your wife's email when you ascribe it to being "honest."

I interpret the very same data as being anything BUT "honest." What I see is "Fogbound Drivel" seeking to make YOU the "badguy" in the scenario:

"If ONLY you could accept RM as being a part of my life and a part of your life, WE (the three of us) could have such an "open" and "honest" and EXCLUSIVE of all others (unless I decide later on that there is someone else I meet who is also 'indispensable' to me) in our threesome 'marriage' together. If you'll forgive me, 2long. Humanistic logic run amok. FOGSPEAK!

Perhaps a "refresher course" if Fogspeak 101 might be a good idea to remember what the foundation is rather than thinking a "perpetual motion machine" is real and not just "wishful thinking" because it would make one's life "much easier."

The task at hand is NOT easy. It never was. Marriage is never easy, it requires willing sacrifice of personal desires and wants to another person, placing THEM ahead of ME on the "decision making tree." The "presupposition" of 'who sits on the sovereign throne of one's life" has a LOT to do with even the idea of 'surrender,' much less 'sacrifice.'

I wonder, was "Forsaking all others" part of her wedding vow to you? If it was, did she have her fingers crossed?

A "mutation" of the normal marriage is what she wants. As with all mutations that attempt to change the basic "kind," they are harmful or fatal, not beneficial, despite the "addition" of any outside energy source (i.e., RM or any OM/OW). The 2LOT would seem to apply to the HW (husband/wife) molecular system as well as other things, despite the perception that "adding energy" alone is the answer. Destablize and destroy...possible. Make "stronger" and more "pure" by "adding" to the molecule? I, for one, don't think so. What say you?

I could say more, but then I'd start talking about things predicated on my presupposition that there IS a "higher power" than ourselves. So I'll end it here and simply tell you that I hope she rethinks the "wisdom" in keeping the "rapist" around despite any other things he might know.

bob:

"Do you see ANY of that in your W 2long ?"

The best way I can think of 2 describe this is like you desribe, only one or 2 orders of magni2de slower pace.

Am I "content" 2 live like this? For the moment, it probably seems so. I'm incredulous, and am hoping for the chance 2 share my incredulity about it with my W soon.

-ol' 2long

FH:

She's an archaeologist.

But it doesn't matter. Even without religion, it's not right 2 prioritize one's career ahead of one's deity or family.


I'd ac2ally like 2 be able 2 be her 'friend', because at this point I can't imagine being close 2 her again if her priorities don't change.

Most certainly, RM must go. I wish she'd give herself the gift of going through withdrawal instead of asking for permission for a fix at this time. But this is where she's at, for bad or worse.

Yes, we did say "forsake" in our vows.

-ol' 2long

gc:

Sadly, not this time.

I've got my telescope thingy Mem weekend, then a landing site workshop the following week. Lots 2 do.

You ought 2 try 2 hook up with JL and WAT while you're there, though.

If you go this December 2 Sam Frank's Disco, I'll make a point of going there...

...and rh, I'd love 2 see you there then, 2!

-ol' 2long
P.S. It's a good day. I made a cabinet door, and hung a door on the tower hallway. I feel pretty bi+chen!

off thread SERIOUSLY.. !

2long

I bought Squid a hobby telescope for her birthday. A Meade ETX 70AT. She LOVES IT !.

STill not used to the autostar stuff, and need to get more eyepieces but pretty cool nontheless.

We have a holiday home half way up a mountain in Wales with hardly any light pollution. Its excellent to use it there !

We know nothing about astronomy but what we read in the owners manual and 'astronomy for dummies" but its cool "

Never dreamed we'd find a SCIENTIFIC recreational activity we both enjoyed !

Cool phrase. Were you at Woodstock? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Or no, where's that place that Jerry Garcia used to hang out?

Well I bought a new lawn mower (yard man), and cut the grass today. I feel pretty something too. Maybe thirty something...yes, that's it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

[color:"red"] thirty something... [/color]

one of my favorite old photos of myself

pre-kids

Mr Pep and I went to Tahiti

I am standing in the ocean, knee deep, putting my snorkle mask on wearing my shirt

[color:"pink"] THIRTY SOMETHING [/color]
from the TV show (Mr Pep worked that show)

I loved that shirt
I loved being 30 something

I cannot say I'd wear a shirt that reads "Fifty Something"

just sounds

O
L
D

*poop*

Pep

30somthing?

I'm not sure I was ever that young!

I was 26 when my DD was born. Now she's 26, going on 27, and M'd!

My W and I used 2 watch 30something all the time. Loved that show.

We seem 2 watch so little drama anymore, unless it's something on the Skiffy channel or DVD.

Wish they'd do another Dune miniseries. We know a guy who worked on the computer graphics for that.

-ol'2long

geeeez pep,

And just what the heck is wrong with 50 something? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Be 50 something and be proud!!!! And LOUD!!! LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Sorry for the threadjack 2long, but you can't seem to remember 30? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Love in Christ,
Miss M

Hello 2l been a long time since a odd word or two.



I was studying for that with my first baby on my hip doing a dig in a 20,000 yr old graveyard in the outback ..lol long time ago it seems

Never did finish, kids, moving with the H from base to base, hey just life! I was seriously considering doing that or med with my DD, student with my DD what a hoot that would have been lol, even got accepted when along came a new baby, who said God did not have a sense of humour? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Anway, being Mothers Day and everyone just half asleep right now from a big lunch, I came across your post and thought to make a comment.

As a FWW myself I read your wifes email with some sadness for you.
Unlike others here I really dont think she made that post in a premeditated way at all, I think thats just the problem, she didn't even consider it or what it meant to you and her M at all.
From your posts of her responses and behaviour she would seem to have little real concern that her behaviour hurts you & the M. It would appear from this that she just assumes that you will always be there regardless of what she has done or will do.
It is perhaps that while holding an abstract respect for you she has no personal respect?
Perhaps its the crux of the whole problem.

Is it time for you to speak to someone like the Harleys directly? [Don't know if you've been there]
Is it time to talk to your wife about stepping up to the plate I think you call it over there and accepting MC from them?
When you bring the issue up she appears to avoid it. Are you concerned that if you push it you will not get the answer you hope for?

Of course it really does not matter what anyone else thinks here, only you. However, that said, I dont think you can ignore that whatever you have been doing hasn't worked too well so far.
I'm certainly NOT saying give up at all, NO WAY. But do you need to speak to the experts and work out another plan of action?

with the best of wishes for you & your wife & family.

JL, GC - Baltimore? Crabs and beer?

Hi RH - congrats on both your accomplishments!

WAT
-----------------
50 sumpin

2long dude...

sorry for the advanced notice your ww gave you...know she was trying to be an fww but she's still out there.

and like MY old fav show, the Xfiles...remember that "the truth is out there"...and make darn sure that WW knows it.

what scares me is I get the inkling that she is still very much in contact with RM. it's the little sensation I used to get when I thought my xh was (then WH) speaking with monkeyho.

Happened again THIS year...earlier this year. When a guy I used to date back home told me that he was cornered at a party by monkeyho herself! Seems monkeyho has a penchant for guys I date (or marry). My old college dude was/is successful and kinda cute. need I say more? Anyway, she tried to make moves on him, and then he ended up confronting her about HER affair with my xh. How he thought it was wrong. She then spilled the beans saying "don't tell Peach (heck I am now the EX WIFE )that I am STILL TALKING TO HIM...but I don't see him MUCH now." Wow! It still felt like a knife in my back. Still. even after the divorce. After all I'd gone thru.

I was floored.

But now I realize that monkeyho is just like ratmeat. I mean, she's interrupting multiple marriages now. She was the OW in my marriage, and although his wifey now is also one of the Other Women, she is NOt monkeyho and monkeyho is not content to remain silent. She is still the OW in the affair marriage of my xh.

Ratmeat? He is remarried right? And still tryin' to be an OM. What part of marriage can this creep NOT comprehend? I mean he makes me wanna hurl.

Why is it that some people are so self centered that they cannot just leave others alone?

My best girlfriend calls these toxic folks "collectors". They "collect" people in their lives and will do ANYTHING AT ALL FOREVER in their powers to keep these people in their lives...despite life circumstance or morality. They just want to keep the little collection of people alive in their lives.

Ratmeat and monkeyho are collectors. Monkeyho is also a rampant codependent. She thinks she is once again committed to "helping" my xh in his life. And "helping" him with his dysfunctional affair marriage...

get it?

it's gotta stop.

the collecting...the remaining of a shred of friendship...

NC IS FOR LIFE OR NO MARRIED LIFE CAN SURVIVE.

So...sadly imho, it is down to either the wonderful Husband that is 2Long or it is Ratmeat. She must decide. Truth, love, real committment, or she must commit to a married man who is NOT her H and NOT married to her.

These darn affair hormones in the brain sure do some rather stooooopid things to the WS don't they?

But irregardless of the foggy feelings they produce, the WS can still manage a feeble yes or no when it comes to agreeing or attempting to further contact with the OP. That is in their power still.

They can say NO. They can do NC. They know the rules. Rules are rules.

song that used to remind me of this?

"IF You're Not In It for Love" by Shania T.

chorus summed up my extended plan A and into plan B.

"If you're not in for life, if you're not in it for love...LET ME MAKE IT CLEAR TO YOU MY DEAR...if you're not in it for love, I'm outta here."

Yes, jp, she must choose.

But like SC said, she's not able 2 at this time.

What I get is my 2uestions about MCing ignored... ...again.

So, I need 2 decide what I'll do about it.

I've thought about coaching with the Harleys again (I had one session with SH in 2002). Problem is that I'm approaching the level of apathy (probably the wrong term) that Mortarman describes. I'm tired, particularly of working on a marriage unilaterally. Still, it might be worth one more shot.

When I "observe" how we got along this weekend, I bounce back and forth between wondering if there's been contact, and feeling pretty sure there hasn't. When I think there has, it's because she's on the computer a lot. ...but then, so am I! ...and when I feel pretty sure there hasn't been contact, it's because I sense she feels that I could find out - or would even2ally somehow, and she's worried I might leave her (Darn Right!).

We had a nice BBQ 2day. My W doesn't like trying 2 go out on M-Day - 2 many people with the same idea. I didn't get her anything, or do anything other than projects on the house (so did she). She said she doesn't feel it's something I need 2 do, anyway, as she's not my mother. I don't agree, but after her request last week, I wasn't much inclined 2 disagree, frankly.

DD and SIL gave her a DVD of "Mirrormask", so we watched that. Very cool. Great Henson sets. During the movie, she reached over and held my hand for a little while. First time all week. It was nice, if small.

-ol' 2long

2l haven't you worked out yet that giving up, quite strategicaly, is a proven way to solicit contribution to recovery from a WW ?

Its what plan B is all about. Its what 'love must be tough' is all about.

You've done the patience/CA/fear of change thing (delete as applicable); you'v edone the 'pretty darn indignant ...but not really standing behind my words' thing.

What works in SO MANY situations is GIVING UP after that lot.
It forces the WS to confront the reality that their actions will directly select the options for their future open to them.

The only thing is 2long, you have to mean it. You have to be prepared to give her up if she won't be the wife you deserve.

I don;t think you can ever do that. Not ever. Which is why you convince yourself its patence not fear or CA that keeps you signed up for another semester. As I keep trying to tell you THATS OK as long as you realise that as fact (if true).

If you start seperation proceedings, your W might repent part way through them or she might now. If she doesn't NO AMOUNT of patience was ever going to gain her commitment and you lose nothing.

But if you want to live in the dull, silvery pluto-light of your present marriage, THATS OK. Just admit it.

All blessings 2long.

Hi Bob:

Forgot 2 comment on your scope purchase. It's great that you're finding something interesting 2 do 2gether under the stars! 2day's computerized scopes are a blast 2 fiddle with. You might check out Sue French's column every month in Sky and Telescope magazine. I think she even has a book out about what things you can see with a small telescope.

-ol' 2long