I agree, it was cold. But it was honest, 2.

So many things, so many potential replies, so many different plans of what I might do now come 2 mind.

For a while now, probably close 2 2 years at least, I've noticed that I don't miss my W when I'm on travel, or she's on travel. I truly enjoy the time 2 myself.

For many years, even before d-day, I've felt like a reluctantly-welcome but useful laborer at her OOSP. Last 2ple summers when she was there with her volunteer s2dents, I enjoyed being home with the kids or by myself. Last year, in particular, was almost heaven (especially after the ****** we were dishing 2 one another at the time).

I've been apprehensive about this year's trip there late next month. She'll be going in a 2ple or 3 weeks, and I was going 2 show up around the 2nd week of her class (new moon), 2 do some astrophotography. But she's worried about 2 many people being at the house and stuff, so she's basically "planned" that the family will come out after the class ends and stay through the 4th.

Maybe I should go elsewhere by myself.

-ol' 2long

What does this part mean though?

Don't take your CA out now 2long, reply back that you want to fix it together.

Keep the convo going.

Ya think?

I think it's really withdrawal, finally... Only I don't feel like much of an "option" 2 her right now. Like I'm the fallback, but she's resisting using it with all her might.

-ol' 2long

Weaver:

good point. I don't want 2 let this drop. It's the most conversation we've had in years.

We each still have things 2 "fix" on our own, but our marriage has definitely been broken for a long time as well. It needs 2 be addressed at the same time our individual problems are.

I just don't think that she wants the marriage right now - or that she wants 2 fight for it very hard.

...which is compounded by the way I feel as well. If we file soon, we could be DV'd by the holidays. That's what's in the back of my mind through this.

But I also want 2 "help", so long as she doesn't keep perceiving my efforts as educating her. I think she still does, but at least she's listening and responding.

-ol' 2long

tell her how pretty she looks when the sun hits her face

fire off a compliment mister (her, not me)

and make it a good one

Pep

Pep:

I do that a lot.

Maybe 2much.

She's cold when I do.

and then what?

She told me a funny story about our son yes2rday when we were going 2 pick up the truck from the mechanic.

After school, they went 2 Tommy's. DS was sitting on the passenger side as they went 2 the driveup window. Gal at the window said "hey, there's a guy at PCC who looks just like him." ...even *I* can tell, from her relaying that, that she was flirting with my DS!

He didn't even notice. And when she pointed it out 2 him later that he could walk there for lunch on his own sometime, he said he didn't want 2 do that.

...very much like I was in those days. ...assuming I was ever THAT young, that is!

-ol' 2long

I do it anyway. I make jokes 2 lighten things up, like this morning when she was getting dressed, I said "ooo, toys!", and she said "I'll just go get dressed in the other room."

(my DD said that when she was 5, but it was in reference 2 the sign at Magic Mountain as we were driving up I-5 2 the Central Valley. I liked it and use it from time 2 time).

-ol' 2long

I want 2 say stuff like this:

"You are not my 'property'. I have never thought of you that way."


But: She's spending her time getting ready for OOSP? and getting the house back 2gether?

Where have I been in all this? Certainly underappreciated.

...I sense my Taker lurking and drooling in the background!

-ol' 2long

not as extentions of someone else's wants and needs

Yep, the old "get married and lose your individuality" bit. This seems to be a recurring motif with her. From that first "Mother's Day" email.

Her marriage to you somehow limits her from being who she is, but HOW? Is it limiting because it takes generosity and love and care to be married, and that isn't who she is?

GC

I gotta run 2 lunch reall fast,

but you've described her 2 a tee, gc.

Trouble is, I want 2 express that observation 2 her somehow without also saying "I give the he11 up" in the following sentence.

Because that's what I want 2 do.

2long,

May I make an observation? Just based on the short amount of time I've been following your story, it seems to me the way it generally goes is this: She gets you to lay your cards on the table, and then responds in such a way as to keep you hanging on without letting you get within arm's length of her. Does that seem accurate?

If so, what if you changed things up a bit. Instead of a detailed, well thought-out, loving response to her most recent email... what about something like:

"I see what you mean. So do you have a plan for fixing what's broken? Want to share what it is?"

The idea being that you keep the ball in HER court as much as possible. As a way of getting her to do something, ANYTHING with said ball.

Just a thought.

--SC

My 2 cents worth. this is not a compliment. it is a sexual innuendo. Not the same thing. as a woman, I know that my H likes to look at, and play with, certain body parts. that is a given.

But when my H and I are out in public, and he leans over and whispers in my ear "My wife, you are beautiful!" I just melt. or, when he greets me in the morning with "good morning, my lovely wife" again, I melt. In those times, he is clearly not looking to "play with" anything. He is just giving me a compliment, with no expectation in return.

a nice compliment like that, goes a long way, and by the end of the day I am ready to hear something cute like "ooo toys". But the "ooo toys" comment, by itself, is not a compliment. if my H were to say something like that to me, in the morning, I would start to wonder "Is he wanting to start something right now? But we don't have time! he knows I am trying to get ready for work! But if I say no, then he might be hurt, or disappointed! Ugh! why does he try to get 'frisky' when he knows I am trying to run out the door? - is this a test? Is he going to be mad at me?. and then, the rest of the day, I might feel pressured. I might wonder how I should'ev/would'ev/could'ev responded.
BUT if he just says "good morning, my lovely wife" I do not think he is trying to 'start soemthing" I think he is just being nice. no pressure. Nothing. just being nice. So I do not feel pressure all day. instead I feel like the luckiest woman in the world.

I like SC's suggestion - and there are lots of ways to approach it.

My W has said similar things to what WOF5 said - I think it's one of the differences between men and women.

Let's see, back to suggestions .......

"If being married won't let you be who you are, then we should divorce. I married you because it helped me reach my goals. It's who I am. I like it.

If you feel were tricked into it, or you are here against your will, you can end the pain. I don't want either of us to be happy at the others expense. I know I won't be married to you if you continue to contact RM. If contact is important to you, you can contact him, but lets end the marriage.
You are free to choose. I am not trying to take your freedom away - just telling you that I have my own choices, and I won't stay if that's what you want.

Be honest about it. I am."



Potiental recovery - what an adventure.

ss

SC:

"She gets you to lay your cards on the table, and then responds in such a way as to keep you hanging on without letting you get within arm's length of her. Does that seem accurate?"

It does 2 me. Very accurate.

"If so, what if you changed things up a bit. Instead of a detailed, well thought-out, loving response to her most recent email... what about something like:

"I see what you mean. So do you have a plan for fixing what's broken? Want to share what it is?""

I agree that I need 2 be very brief in my reply, but her answer 2 that particular 2uestion will be a restatement of how we need 2 work on ourselves as individuals, not as a couple. Note that my W only called me her "husband" 2 times in the last 15 years, and both times were 2 impress insurance people and lawyers when we were fighting for a decent settlement on the fire damage. Even recently, she talks about "us" as having a relationship - she doesn't like or use the term "marriage."

"The idea being that you keep the ball in HER court as much as possible. As a way of getting her to do something, ANYTHING with said ball."

I agree. Just don't know how best 2 do that.

-ol' 2long

wof:

You know? I don't think I ac2ally said that, exactly. Though I have many times over the years. I think if I said anything, it was "wow, nice" or something similar.

As for wanting something. She may have perceived that was the case (she's perceived a lot of things that I haven't felt for a very long time now), but it is most definitely NOT the case.

It's been over a month since we were physically intimate now. And I don't care if it's another 50 years right now until the next time.

-ol' 2long

SS:

I'm leaning 2ward your suggestion at the moment, because I'm so tired. So, so tired of this crap.

Looking back at the whole dialog since before mother's day, it stands out that she doesn't use RM's name, ever. She doesn't call it an A, ever. She was asking for permission 2 resume contact, but she won't acknowledge any of my observations about it, or him, or our marriage being a priority.

I still can't tell whether it was an honest request for new contact, or for approval of continued, secret contact.

Not that it matters.

I'm tired of the fight, though.

-ol' 2long

2long, what do you want? Really. Why do you want that?

2Long,

I have been following your sitch recently, sorry to see you are where you are, what a journey!

It seems like your WH and youself are in quite the push-pull game. Your wife sounds a lot like my WH's OW, urging him to leave and find himself, he deserves it! It is all very self-serving IMO. There are always two sides, but I don't see anything that indicates you are inhibiting her from being all that she can be, quite the contrary, you encourage it. So, it then goes back to your wife is still a WW, not a FWH I'm afraid, and that is why she says what she does the way she does. You say it has been 4 years since DD, and I thought I read where this is on-again/off-again with her.

If she doesn't commit to you, the M and recovery with 100%, then I don't think she really wants it. Sometimes people don't know what they have until they lose it, I'm afraid. The question is, what do you want in all of this? Do you want to continue carrying the weight of recovery for the both of you, knowing that this will never work if only one person does it? I remind myself of the quote on doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is the definition of insanity. It seems that there is a lot of thought on yourside about the M, your WW, her feelings, but it isn't the same on herside, it is only thoughts about herself. You need to think more about yourself and less about her. This is too one-sided for it to be healthy for you. You need to think about why you think you deserved to be treated this way, why you aren't demanding respect, instead saying will you please respect me, if it isn't too much trouble and it isn't impeding on anything you want?

I know this sounds harsh, I'm sorry if it causes any pain. It's just that you seem like such a nice guy and I would like you to be in a good place.