How did he manage to spin you so completely?

You should be outraged. Instead you are meekly complying with his plan to get you out of the way.

He's actually got you COOPERATING with the dismantling of your marriage!

"How about if you move across the country honey? While I call you once in a while, when it doesn't interfere with seeing my lover.
In 4 months, I'll simply tell you its not going to work out, and you'll already be settled in NC and over all the emotions of this and we can divorce quietly.
That way, OW will see that we really are on our way to breaking up, and neither of us want to be married any more. See OW, wife is leaving and moving across to NC, she doens't care about me anymore."

You think you'll see more proof?? Nope, he's going to be way more careful now. You'll never see his phone again.

DON'T BE NAIVE.

Stina, here is what you MUST, MUST, MUST understand about him. DO NOT BELIEVE WORDS, ONLY BELIEVE ACTIONS.

WS's are professional liars and are VERY CONVINCING. They have MUCH experience with lying. Talk is CHEAP with a wayward spouse. So, only believe what you can see with your own eyes.

Your greatest enemy is your own WISHFUL THINKING that he is telling the truth. You will WANT to believe what he says, despite the facts, because that makes it all so easier. Don't fall for that trap, Stina, it will lead you NOWHERE.

And what you see with your own eyes is that there is an affair going on here. You have all the evidence you need.

And understand this: YOU DO NOT NEED HIS ADMISSION TO KNOW THE TRUTH. The FACTS tell you everything you need to know.

The fact is that your H is having an affair and you know it. Just because you had some of the facts wrong, does not change that, Stina.

***Well,H and I have talked some more, I feel like I'm headed for a mix of Plan A and B.***

There ain't no such animal, stina - not one that will help your marriage, anyway.***

***WH? has said that he needs some time alone. He feels suffocated in his life. Between me and work and his internal unhappiness he feels he should "just be alone".***

Translation: "Stina is on to me. The jig is up. I need to get her out of the way so I can go on with my affair in peace."

***I still see in him that there is a huge weight on his shoulders...maybe guilt? I'm just not sure right now. There was a hopelessness in him that I don't think I've ever seen before - it actually scared me.***

He is shutting you out because you've busted him and he doesn't know how else to handle this. A normal person would handle it by ending the affair and going back to their wife and familiy, but he is not a normal person right now and he doesn't know what else to do.

***At any rate, I know that I've felt one of our biggest problems was our move to California. Nothing against CA, but I've always felt like the pace of life here and what it takes to be able to live on a daily basis will just suck everything out of a person.***

This is something that should be POJA'd. You can't be married when you live at different ends of the country. You just can't.

***H and I have discussed a trial separation. Time for him to "just be alone".***

See above. Time for him to "just concentrate on OW since Stina is wise to me."

***The plan is as follows - we will get our current house fixed up and ready to sell. In the meantime, we will look for a job and a place for me to live in North Carolina. I've always wanted to live there (I grew up in Virginia) and he says that NC is the only place he was ever happy and thinks he could be happy there again. With that in mind, I would move to NC and he would stay in CA. Hopefully our current house would sell by then. He would get a small apartment or rent a room somewhere near to his son. We would take a 3-4 month break/separation and would keep communicating with each other. After the 3-4 months, he would take a leave of absense from work and come be with me for a minimum of 2 months. We would readjust the time he is with me to be longer as necessary. If things work out, then he would move to be with me in NC and we would worry about the logistics with his son later.***

Dear gods, Stina - you might as well just go get your divorce right now as do this. Do you really not see that he's setting it up to bounce back and forth between you and his girlfriend? Why are you agreeing to be part of his harem? That's exactly what's going to happen.

***I just don't know what to do. On the one hand, with what I've read - if I do go and he really is having an A, then it should run it's course and die in that time. If he isn't having an A then he's got his alone time.***

Stina, you are completely in denial here. You are giving your WH exactly what he wants - both a wife *and* a girlfriend with no hassles from either one. I understand wanting to trust and believe your H, but this man is not your H right now. He is a WH. He will lie to you and manipulate all day long to keep you where he wants you, which is on the sidelines waiting quietly while he screws his girlfriend. And you are falling for it.

***For me, hopefully the separation does like a Plan B where he starts realizing everything he's lost, starts to miss me and then when that time is up, he'll be able to come back to me.***

"Hope" is not a plan. And he will NEVER miss you as long as he remains in contact with you, thereby reassured that you're still waiting for him and he is safe to pursue his girlfriend for as long as he wants.

***At the same time, during that time I could find the closure in the relationship I need to be able to move on.***

Yes, a real Plan B might do this for you - but not the "plan" you have outlined.

***I might note, several times last night when he said that he wanted to be alone and indicated he wanted to divorce, I said that if that was what he wanted then it was his responsibility, he would have to go and get it. I don't believe in divorce so I won't go do it.***

That's fine, and is what you should say if you really want to stay married to him.

***He would then avoid the topic. Basically he wouldn't allow himself to be the one to go and get the D.***

Why should he? He's not trying to choose between you. NEVER FORGET THAT!!! He wants BOTH of you, and you are handing that to him on a silver platter.

***I don't know right now what to do. I want to beleive that there is no A going on,***

That's understandable, but denial is not going to save your marriage.

***but I'm still extremely suspicious. I'm keeping my mouth shut though, trying to Plan A for now and keep my eyes wide open. I figure if there is an affair, I'll see more proof of it in time. Not sure how to keep going forward and deal with this trial separation thing though.***

You cannot work on your marriage if you are separated. Separation almost always leads to divorce. If you want to save your marriage, separating - especially to different states, for pete's sake - is the worst thing you could do.

Okay, so even if he's NOT having an affair (yeah right), then what reason would either of you possibly have to separate?

And if he IS having an affair, all you are doing by separating is politely stepping out of the way so he and his girlfriend can screw each other in peace. Sorry to be so blunt, but that's what they want and they will certainly appreciate your giving it to them.

And what do you think this is going to do to that 13-year-old boy???

Bad, bad, bad idea for all concerned. Not surprising that this "trial separation" is HIS idea, is it?
Mulan

This plan means the end of your marriage. Seperation is a trial for DIVORCE, not marriage.

He wants the seperation so he can carry on his affair unimpeded.

Stina - Yesterday you were well prepared and smart. After your little talk with WH you bought what he is selling. He should be in advertising.

Turn on the fan and blow a little of the fog out of your house.

She has been CONNED.

((((((((((((((((STINA)))))))))))))))))))

Please listen to these very wise posters. They are speaking the truth to you.

Glad

Stina - Here is your thoughtful post from 2 days ago -

All,
In preparation for confronting my WH on Friday, I’ve tried to put together a “script” of sorts. Something to help me keep my thoughts together. I realize that much of this will probably not be of any help to me, but I hope this will help me somewhat.

Please “grade” it against the MB principles and let me know if I am unknowingly using any LB or hurting the situation any more than it already is. Also let me know if I am not saying anything I should be saying.

Any and all advice is priceless to me as it could help me to save my M.

Thanks to all of you!
-----------------------------------------------------------
WH, this is very hard for me to say, however it must be addressed. In two simple words: I KNOW.

I know about you and OW. I know you are having an affair.

I know that the two of your have been sending each other suggestive text messages for the last two months.

I know that you call each other all hours of the day for extended conversations.

I know that you lied to me when you went on that business trip to Japan at the beginning of March. You told me you would be back on Sunday, March 12, but according to your passport, you left Japan on __________. I know you rented a convertible from Dollar Rent-A-Car at SFO and spent March 10 through 12 with her at a hotel in Jenner, CA.

I know that because you were so wrapped up in an affair with OW that you forgot your son’s birthday and delayed his science fair project another weekend. That choice was almost disastrous when you weren’t sure if you’d be able to complete his project in the last two days. You made her more important than your son.

I know that the time you have spent locked up on your laptop has increased drastically in the last two to three months – I assume you’ve been communicating with her.

I assume that Friday nights were really spent working late, but were instead spent with her.

Were you really with her that night you took your son home and told me you had to take drop your pager off at work?

Did you dare bring her into your son’s life that weekend you wouldn’t allow me to go camping with the two of you?

I’ve noticed you try to slip your wedding band on your finger without me noticing in the evenings after work. Is it hard for the two of you to have that sign of your promise and commitment to me on your finger when you are with her?

I know everything, WH, please don’t lie to me anymore, tell me the truth.

<Give it a moment to sink in – take a deep breath, stay calm>

I know, despite this, that you are still a good man with a good heart. I know you did not purposefully set out to hurt me in any way. However that does not make your decision right or justified and you have hurt me – I cannot begin to explain to you the pain I am feeling. Hopefully one day I will be able to share that with you, right now I cannot.

In spite of everything, I do still love you – very much in fact. I want the opportunity to fulfill your needs and to reconcile our marriage. I want the chance for both of us to be aware of and exceed each other’s needs. I want nothing more than to keep our family together and heal. Everything I do from here on out is with that in mind. I will not abandon you now or ever, despite my pain.

All of us have done things that we regret, we’ve all made mistakes. I can think of many times where I felt I didn’t deserve forgiveness, but was given it any way. Now I find myself in a position to offer you that same forgiveness and understanding. It IS possible for us to find healing and forgiveness and for our marriage to thrive once again.

As I thought about all of this, I found myself looking at my engagement ring and remembering the day you gave it to me. I remembered how you told me that it was almost perfect, but with a few flaws. I realized how much that ring is like us. I realized that just because the ring was flawed, I didn’t love it any less and I vowed to where it until the day I died. And now I look at you and realize that even with your flaw, this bad decision, I don’t love you any less and I vowed to be with you until the day I died. I intend to keep that promise.

However, for that to begin to happen, any and all contact with OW must end immediately. There is NO room for a third person in our marriage. Any further contact you have with her after this point will be like a small dagger in my heart – it will be like you are choosing to hurt me on purpose.

I hope you know that all of this comes from the fact that I love you. Why else would I put myself through this? Wouldn’t it be easier for me to walk away from you now? Wouldn’t it be easier to consider our relationship a bad mistake in my life and move on to better horizons? I can’t do that, because my heart can’t stop loving you, even through this.

Will you end this affair and try to work on reconciling our marriage?

---------------------------------------------------------

If he says yes:
• Explain how all contact with OW must end. No e-mails, text messages, phone calls, etc. Work with counselor and WH to come up with a plan to insure the success of NC.
• Write NC Letter and make sure it is dropped in the mail.
• Explain to WH that he must resign his position at company. I cannot handle knowing that he would be at work each day with her. He must separate from her completely and that means separating from his job.
• Move into plan A
• Help WH through withdrawal
• Start plan for reconciliation

If he says no or that he’s not sure:
• Stay calm
• Say: “I understand you feel that way right now.
• Do not argue, do not take any of what he says personally
• Move into plan to expose to work, family and friends

--------------------

How did all of the above change to you moving out of state?

Stina, let me put this as plainly as possible. Your husband is having an affair and is trying to leave you for another woman. He is not telling you this because he does not want to face the consequences. He wants to get out with the least amount of fuss possible.

A seperation is a "trial" for one thing and one thing only: DIVORCE. When a WS says they "need space" it is ALWAYS so they can leave and carry on the affair unimpeded. If you go along with this scheme, you will be ENABLING the demise of your marriage at your own expense.

Now, he is not likely to tell you the truth about this, nor do you need his admission. Please understand that this is what is happening here and proceed accordingly.

Tina, Mulan has laid everything out for you in plain language. Study well what she wrote. We've seen almost the same words you report your husband used before...a thousand times. They invariably mean what Mulan has told you. Don't let him fool you, Tina. Affairs do usually die within 2 years...but he'll have every reason in the world to pick up with another woman and do it all over again. Don't let that happen.

Mulan: outstanding post, lady!

BwHAaaaaaa BELIEVER





what's so suspicious about THAT? Doesn't ~everyone~ pay for a room in which to "think" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Pep

OMG! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Before his affair, my husband was always very honest. So I believed his lies for a long time. He would look me straight in the eye and lie, lie, lie. I thought I was the crazy one. Everyone thought he was telling the truth - our friends, his family, even my attorney.

So I understand how Stina feels. It is quite a shock to think you know someone so well, and then find out that you don't know them at all.

Longhorn - thanks very much. You do know that I went to Texas A&M for a short time, don't you? I'm an *Aggie*!

Stina, please let us know what you are thinking. I'm working overtime at home all weekend, so I'll be checking in periodically.
Mulan

I think she is probably busy with her husband. He just got home from Japan.

stina, stina, stina.

ditto ALL the others.

This is classic, classic, clasic affair stuff.

He is a classic, classic, classic wayward spouse.

Don't be a classic, classic, classic BS and fall for it.

You want to believe him because it's the easy way out. But if you take this easy way, it's out of the marriage for you.

But you do have that option. You're young and have no children with him. You're on the other side of the country from where you should be, here in the Old Dominion. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> So if you want to go along with his brilliant idea, kiss him goodbye and move back here.

But I don't think you want this plan.

If I'm right, hunker down in Plan A and continue your snooping. When you get another batch of good intel, bust him again. He's going to be expending more energy to hide his activities, so it'll wear on him. Eventually, he'll be forced with really wanting a separation. You stay put. This makes HIM need to move out. Because his son is not yours, he'll have to take him. Tough to lollygag with the skank with his son in tow.

Change your attitiude and you're in control. Buy his crap and he's in control.

WAT

I haven't read all of your threads just yet, but I confronted him again just now - no good information still - he's sticking to his story. He did, begrudgingly agree to NC and said that was a reasonable request from me. So that's something and he's already put his resume out to several companies.I told him I could make no decisions to a trial separation until I could be sure that this had nothing to do with another woman.

In the meantime, I'm thinking about hiring a private investigator to keep an eye on him for awhile. I need something more firm that cannot be questioned or excuses made for, before I make any decisions.

You could put a GPS in his car and be able to see where he goes. They cost about $350.