Maybe this sounds familiar to some of you here:


Gaslighting:

A common form of brainwashing in which an abuser tries to falsely convince the victim that the victim is defective, for any purpose whatsoever, such as making the victim more pliable and easily controlled, or making the victim more emotional and therefore more needy and dependent.

Often done by friends and family members, who claim (and may even believe) that they are trying to be helpful. The gaslighting abuser sees himself or herself as a nurturing parental figure in relation to the victim, and uses gaslighting as a means for keeping the victim in that relationship, perhaps as punishment for the victim's attempt to break out of the dependent role.

Example: If an abusive person says and does hurtful things and makes you cry, and then, instead of apologizing and taking responsibility, starts recommending treatments for what he or she calls "your depression" or "your mood swings," you are in the presence of a gaslighter.

Etymology: Term is named after the film Gaslight (1944), in which the villain used the technique.

Related: Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy (MSBP).

Very familiar..

Not from H though thankfully.

I am very familiar with this one. After first D Day and WH claiming he was in NC - he suggested that I get AD because I was so paranoid and jumpy. Guess what - he was still in C with OW. I did take his advice and the AD is the only thing that kept me sane during second D Day.

Nkay

Thank you for posting this Mulan. Very therapeutic.

If anyone wants more information and insight, rent the film. Netflix has the 1944 (Bergman) and 1940 (?) both excellent. If your WS is telling you it's all in your mind, and you know they are cheating, it's better than a tranquilizer.

Oh my, that is PBR. She thinks she has the answer to everyone's problem.....have an A, u deserve it! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

L.

gaslighting

a bunch of college frat boys get together to eat beans and chilis and after an hour, they light up

That's pretty scary stuff.

Of note, IMHO, that gaslighting is a very close relative of crazymaking:

Crazymakers...

Break deals and destroy schedules
Expect special treatment
Discount your reality
Spend your time and money
Triangulate those they deal with
Are expert blamers
Create dramas - but seldom where they belong
Hate schedules and order
... and of course... DENY they are crazymakers.

*Julia Cameron The Artist's Way

Wouldn't it be nice to be able to recognize a gaslighter or crazymaker BEFORE we got involved with them?

What does that mean? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Oh my gosh, I read that book but it was years ago. I loved it! I used to get up and write five pages every morning, just like she suggests. Anything and everything that popped into my head. It was great!

I long forgot about that book.

weaver: It means they pit one against another...

Example: A crazymaker will tell you that Sally, your co-worker, said you're fat. But don't tell Sally I told you, says crazymaker. Then she goes to Sally and says that you think she's lazy. But she'll make Sally promise not to tell you. Now both of you hate each other, or at the least, don't trust each other and who comes out smelling like a rose? Your "good friend" Crazymaker.

Interesting to note: If anyone in the triangulation is healthy, the crazymaker will have to move on. Because the first thing a healthy person would say would be, "Do not share info like this with me, and if you do, I will confront Sally and tell her that you're the person who told me."

By the way, kids are master triangulators with mom and dad... not in the hateful crazymaking way, but in the "I really want to go to the movies and mom won't let me so I'm gonna ask dad without telling him that mom already said no" way. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Okay, now I see.

My 11 yo is an expert at this. Especially since we have joint custody and both of us are moving...so now it is "well fine then Mom, but I think I am going to have to start school with dad in his new town". LOL

***Example: If an abusive person says and does hurtful things and makes you cry, and then, instead of apologizing and taking responsibility, starts recommending treatments for what he or she calls "your depression" or "your mood swings," you are in the presence of a gaslighter.***

This hit me right between the eyes. It's exactly what WH does. And he knows exactly how to do it.

Why would someone do this? Because then the damage is not their fault and all the blame is off of them. You clearly have a chemical imbalance, or some inherent trauma since childhood, that's causing you to be so upset. He has said those words to me.

Never mind that I seemed to be perfectly sane for the first 15+ years of the marriage, until I found out he'd been dating his young and attractive female coworkers.

If you're going through this, detachment is the only option from someone like this. That and a clear recognition of what they are trying to do.
Mulan

Mulan,

It is good that you recognise this.

I was with someone like that, and I know all too well the feeling of questioning your own sanity...of questioning your perception of everything.

I wish you would get out of that R, at least a Plan B until he has some sort of epiphany.

You are way too special for this.

But it is good that you have this forum and the books you are reading.

I would not venture back into that black h*ll of questioning my own sanity for anything in the world...NOTHING or NOBODY will ever make me question my own sanity again.

I can't wait for the day, like with AM that you are free...if it means he has "seen the light", or that you are free of him, I don't care.

That will be a blessed day indeed.

That reminds me of a time a few weeks after WH left and my oldest and I got into a very big emotional argument. We both said some very hateful ugly things. WH told me that he hoped I got some help "before I did real damage to the family"

I couldn't help but throw that back into his face. He was accusing ME do damage to this family. What a crock...and I let him know that.

Looking back I am kind of proud of how I handled that. There was no excuse for how I handled the situation with my oldest son, but there was no way I was going to let WH off the hook for being the one who set the events in motion for it to happen in the first place.

Mulan,

Five years ago....Maybe you didn't know the term "gaslighting" but you were talking about this same dynamic. In fact, you used to post under the name "psycho b____h" because that's what he used to call you during his really active gaslighting days. Five years later....you're still taking the SAME crap from this guy. Your son is 18 Mulan....probably getting ready to head off to college. I don't think you started out crazy.....but five years of this kind of crazymaking is probably making you crazy! He HAS gaslighted you....no question.


I wish I could really understand why you do this....and how someone with the talent and intelligence that you have...would allow themselves to be gaslighted for so long that victimhood is all you know. But then....that's what the aim of gaslighting is....to undermine your own sanity and judgement. I think the terms you might also need to investigate are "secondary gain" and probably "co-dependency". I'm sure I'm just making you really mad again chere....but I wish you knew how much I actually care about you and I swear my intent is simply to somehow reach you and help you understand the dire circumstances you ARE in.

The book "No Visible Wounds : Identifying Non-Physical Abuse of Women by Their Men" by Mary Susan Phd Miller, talks about how to overcome gaslighting and perhaps you might find it helpful. Please use it to help yourself....not as a manual to give your husband a laundry list of what's wrong with him and why HE should change.

http://store.ooen.net/?Operation=ItemLookup&ItemId=0449910792

The time to examine what your husband is doing has come and gone....I truly believe Mulan....that if you ever want to be happy again...you've got to start looking at your own paralysis. He CAN'T do what he keeps doing to you if you don't LET HIM!! Stop giving away your power. One of the heroines in your books would never put up with this crap.

(((((((((((((((((mulan))))))))))))))))

(((((((((((((((((((((mulan)))))))))))))))))))

star*fish, thank you. I understand what you are saying and I have detached a great deal. When I post stuff like this, it's just because I am trying to understand what happened and hoping that maybe it will help someone else.

One example, if anyone is wondering: Once, after swearing up and down that he was no longer going out socially with his coworkers and complaining mightily that this was causing great problems for him, he conveniently left out the bill for his corporate card expenses sitting wide open on a table. There was a listing for a fancy restaurant on Secretaries' Day.

Things had been going a bit better. Obviously he had to do something to make me look crazy again. And it worked.

This is just a cautionary tale, not a plea for sympathy. Really. (Lemonman, are you listening? I know yer out there, I can hear ya breathin'!)

Thanks to all who responded here (even Pep with the silly answer <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> )
mulan

my xh is the posterchild for a gaslight abuser.

i would bet a million bucks that his photo is by the definition.


he would always do something horrible, then blame me for it saying it was because I was in some way unhealthy...he began this after I went to counselors during his affairs....he would NEVER attend with me...only going in two times (two different counselors) and giving his very very different side of things justifying his actions.

he would always find the weakest spot in me, and magnify it. he was horrible with this. it was emotional abuse at its worst. and he did it to keep me down...keep me sad.

i know he is one...and know that he's probably up to it now with wifey numero 3...the affair wifey.

he's a master manipulator.

and this kind of abuse sadly can hold a woman hostage for many many years. something I am just now able to recognize for what it truly is...and something i am able to avoid now as I know that it is indeed abuse.

and mulan's wh and my xh could be brothers btw.

when I cannot think of something intelligent to say

sometimes

I say something silly, so all y'all can shine even brighter in comparrison to my dim bulb

anyway

laffin' is my prozac

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I think exposure is the match that blows the gaslight and their offenders to smithereens. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Well if not that much damage, maybe it'll burn their bums. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

L.