Sorry...

I promise to stick by my agenda of working on myself everyday and not worry about her actions.

I need to write that about a thousand times so I don't forget it....(again)

And stop bothering the forum with dumb questions (tongue in cheek)

Thank You for the reminder...we are still getting along good and I will work on this for my kids...(Oh and Me)

J

It wasn't a dumb question. Better to talk about your concerns here I think and play it cool with her. You don't want to suffocate her or make her feel like she's under a microscope. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Sooly

Test post
I've wriiten 2 long posts and when i go to send them it says form expired.
I'll try again.

Post no longer valid??

Started the 180 last week on the advice of another poster here and i think i messed it up.

Asked wife on friday what was the matter cause she seemed kind of checked out after a few days of me doing the 180 and she said there was a lot of tension in the house lately and said that she felt like everytime she went into a room with me that i would go to another room, like i was avoiding her (her mother even called to ask why i was doing that because it wasn't helping)

I explained to wife that my intention was to stop smothering her with ilu's and hugs and kisses because i felt like i was getting overbearing.

Mil said that she hopes me and W can work things out but that w was really tired of trying all these years and really thinks nothing is gonna change.

Note (mil has not given up yet and dont want w to leave)

I told w last night that i was here at MB trying to correct my old bad habits and form new ones so she can see the person that i want to be, i also told her that our marriage hasn't been what i thought it would be either and i know a lot of that was my fault and thats why i want to change so we can enjoy our life together.

She didn't reply, and I told her many things about my past behavier with her that i didn't like and thats another reason why i want to change so i can learn to just listen without judgeing her and validate her feelings instead of always thinking (how does this effect me)

I want her to feel free to go out with friends or go shopping without feeling guilty because i'm at home with the kids.

I'm trying real hard but it don't come easy for me but i told her i wont give up untill we both are happy and that i wont be happy either untill i start to see changes in myself for the better,

I reminded her that instead of wondering whats going on that she needs to start talking to me more and ask me questions (try to talk to me and see what happens)

last night when we went to bed i tried to pull on her shoulder a little bit to get her to turn over so i could give her a hug and she just kinda pulled away and said "what" i said "nothing...goodnight"

This morning when we were getting ready for work i said were you mad at me last night and she said no i said when i tried to roll you over you just kinda pulled away and she said "what did you want?" i said i wanted to give you a hug. she said "oh" i said did you not want a hug? and she said "no not really" and I said ok thats fine i just don't know what to do anymore to show you how i feel.

Do i keep up the 180

any and all advice welcome
J

Why are you doing a 180? I don't see anyone on this thread that suggested you do a 180. I only see posters telling you to keep working on you and show some consistencies.

I don't like 180s. For me they seem too hard to pull off. Too hard to not turn it into some passive aggressive way to GET BACK at my spouse.

I like the open, honest, sincere effort. If that doesn't work no amount of shake up is going to rock her world. She needs to decide, after she's been provided ample evidence, whether or not her H is worthy of her love. She needs to decide if you are worthy of her love.

I think it is way too early in the game for you to try a 180.

I don't think you replied to some questions I've asked. Have you done any reading of the books that come highly recommended here? They could provide some insight into your W's love language and what specifically you could do to avoid LBs.

As much as you think you've changed for the better you've got some serious fixing to do. That will require some stellar work on your part to reverse what you've already created.

Sorry to bust your chops ... if that's what this feels like. I merely want to point out you need to resort to a 180 when it's obvious nothing else is going to work. And even then a 180 is risky.

I'm sorry to everyone on here, I had another thread started with a differant header on it and then I read where you are only supposed to stick to 1 thread. I will stay here from now on so as not to confuse anyone.

Here's the 180 post,
Maybe star didn't have all my facts at hand when replying,
I'm sorry for all the confusion, either way I messed the 180 up on my own by not listening to everyone.


star*fish
Member


Reged: 03/25/02
Posts: 14060
Re: Advice needed! Do I try to get her to talk or just keep quiet? [Re: JSlost]
#3022538 - 05/24/06 10:16 AM Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply



okay JS....it sounds like you've been thorough. With that in mind, I'd like you to consider looking at Michelle Weiner Davis's Divorce Busting strategies. In the absence of infidelity.....I find that it's far more empowering than simply ending love busters (which you MUST do) and filling ENS (which she probably won't let you do). That's why a 180 degree stategy is sometimes helpful because it shakes things up a little without withdrawing love units. Rather than becoming needy, clingy or walking on egg shells....you seem more desirable and strong. I'm not saying don't fill the needs she will allow you to....but don't follow her around like a puppy dog either.

Here's a shortlist....but not all of them will apply to you. Go and take a look at her site for a more complete understanding of how it applies to your situation:

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
4. Do not follow her around the house.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances.
8. Do not buy gifts.
9. Do not schedule dates together.
10. Do not spy on spouse.
11. Do not say "I Love You".
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show her someone she would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
21. Never lose your cool.
22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic.
23. Do not argue about how she feels (it only makes their feelings stronger).
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly.
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because she is hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.

--------------------
*I came to this site to change my husband. He did change.....but not because I made him change. I made him want to.*

Post Extras:


Mya,
Thanks for the "chopps busting" I have not picked up any of the books you suggested, my heart is the right place but I guess I keep looking for the easy way out...this is just so hard because I know I can change,(I've identified my own bad behavier by reading this websight) and I know she's not just gonna come running back to me without some proof, I have the book titles written down in my wallet but I have not acted on them yet..(I've never been much of a reader.)
I feel stupid writing that last line because I know what I need to do and I know I can do it.

I also know I have a lot of fixing (on my part) to do.

I'll go back and read all of your earlier post's and start over again.

I know I can be a success story, I know my wife loves me and her family loves me to so I guess I just thought I could "slip by" with all of this.

I know now I'm wrong...sorry to waste your time but thank you so much for the support.
J

JS,

There's no rule that you only have to use one thread....however, it really does help people follow your story more easily and find your posts more easily. I wasn't aware of this thread and the extra information it contained when I recommended a 180, but there are some things about your situation that has me leaning in that direction. Here are some of the things you've posted:

"I recognise this now and I am trying to be less controlling"

"as you can see I'm very insecure"

"she just wants to know that she can feel free to come and go whenever she feels like it and not be under a microscope all the time"

"she says I make her feel dumb"

"I begged, cried, pleaded for her to reconsider staying but she said she couldn't so after 1 month of begging her to stay, helping out around the house and with the kids and doing things for her etc."

"She has complained for years that I don't do anything around the house "chores" and she is so right about that."

You're upset, panicky and hyperfocussed on everything she does and says...a 180 is good for changing that dynamic and sometimes filling needs and following around a woman who feels "controlled" is met with rejection. The other thing that's troubling to me is the "going out" thing....where the only way you can prove you trust her and love her is to allow independent behavior....which is no good for your marriage. Even if you manage to avoid the panic and allow her to go out without LBing....you're still enabling independent behavior and she's still having her needs met elsewhere. I do want you to stop LBing...that's essential no matter whose plan you use...Harley or Davis...but what can be good about the 180 is that you present a less clingy, controlling, obsessive, needy partner.....especially at a time when a spouse won't let you meet many needs or is having them met outside of the marriage.

My Alias is completely right about the fact that not everyone can do this well....and that list is just a guideline because what you have to do is stop behavior that isn't working and not everything on that list will apply to you. For instance....since you haven't helped around the house in the past...you would start doing more to help her. That WILL fill ENs....it will also demonstrate the kind of change that the 180 is about....that's why these strategies are not opposed to each other. If something is working....then you don't change THAT.

But here's where it gets tricky. It's not about ignoring her or avoiding her or being aloof and passive aggressive. I mentioned on the other thread that you should NOT avoid her and that if she came to you, you should respond to her when she seeks YOU out. I told you to "respond" instead of "intiate" sex, conversation, ilu, etc. because on your other thread....I got the impression that you were frantic and confused and thought the list could give you a starting point to concentrate on YOU instead of HER.

Forgive me if I've added to your confusion. But make no mistake....being tolerant if your wife going out to bars is not going to help your marriage, no matter how much she feels like she needs "freedom". You can't stop her from going and you shouldn't. You also shouldn't lovebust....but your wife has one foot out of the door....and is spending her most enjoyable recreational time away from you. If she's shopping while you watch the kids....that's something I think is great for you to do for her. If it's going out to bars with co-workers and flirting...then that's out of line for a woman who wants to be married. I really felt badly for you when you said that maybe one day, she'd let you go too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I'm sure you've made mistakes JS....but right now....I honestly don't believe that you're the biggest threat to your marriage. I think your wife is, because I see a great effort on your part to face your shortcomings...change and rebuild your marriage....but your fear of losing her has turned you into a nervous wreck. Neediness is not attractive....and filling needs she doesn't want you to when a spouse is acting the way your wife is....can sometimes be viewed (by her) as a controlling and needy too. Whether you do a 180 or not....is not really the important thing....you have to change what isn't working. Address those things you know have lost love units for you. Be consistent and show her that you're in there for the long haul. That still means stopping LBs, filling the needs she will allow you to fill....but it also means....being "still" and patient and presenting a strong, confident and committed demeanor that is attractive to her.

(((((((((((((((JS)))))))))))))))))

Star is a wise poster isn't she JS?

As you might have noticed I misconstrued what a true 180 is. I often hear 180 and I think reverse doing everything that I am doing whether it is working or not.

The normal first step in MB steps is to stop LBs and meet ENs. Be consistent and prove the changes are permanent.

In the case where these steps are NOT rectifying things, sometimes a 180 is in order. I think in this case the term "non-working" fits the definition of where a 180 is needed. Much of the behavior in the 180 will be behavior you stop doing once your W re-engages in the R. For instance, the need to stop saying ILUs because they make you look needy, clingy, desperate. If your spouse becomes interested in you and the R again you would more than likely want to start up the ILUs again. But until then they may prove to be "non-working" or oddly enough a LB to your W.

Continue to meet the ENs your W will let you meet and wants you to meet, like doing more household chores. Do them without asking or having to be prompted and do them cheerfully.

I think the tough part is figuring out all the little intricacies that make up the non-working behaviors. You probably aren't going to get a whole lot of help on these from your withdrawn spouse. So it may prove beneficial to you to share here at MB all the finer workings of your day-to-day, minute-by-minute interactions you have with her so others can provide insight on where to do 180s.

I think you need to have a serious discussion here about your W's IB and gameplan a respectful way to request that she stop doing those types of damaging things.

You mentioned you weren't much of a reader. Might I suggest you first start with the 5 Love Languages. It might not be the most needed book for you right now but it's a relatively short and is easy to read because it is broken up by chapters of each of the love languages. Heh, if you feel you know your W's love language you could read that chapter first and see if you get any good insight from it. There are other chapters that prove helpful as well, like one chapter on how to go about finding your W's Love Language when both you and her don't know what her Love Language is.

Keep on posting and give us more details.

Star & Mya,
I went back and read all of the posts from both of my threads and took a little time reading them this time, you were right about me being panicky because I read them so fast that I think I missed a bunch of important points.

Star,
After reading about the 180 (again) I see where you actually say "some of these things may apply to your situation"
Not..., go out and do all of this..., you see when you are writing all of this you are much more calm and thinking clearly, but you have to understand that I am grabbing at everything, that I can, to fix this problem and not realy thinking clearly before I act.

I'm just glad you guys have the patience to bear with me through all of this.

I'm at work when I'm on this sight and a lot of times I get interupted and lose my train of thought so I will start re reading all of your post's before I act on them and ask more questions when I am confused.

Thanks for your patience,

I will be back to tell you more about my day to day later

J

A little more history,
W has never really gone out much in the past and when she goes out now it’s to “get away from things”

Her sister lost her place quite a while ago and we let her move in with us until she can get back on her feet, she has
2 kids 13 & 17 and they are quite messy and not very good house guests. (no cleaning, no money, just lost her job yesterday,
she’s a bartender) needless to say it has been very rough on W and I but we have never been ones to turn on family.
Also sister is very much for W not leaving.

I’m now more active in our kids lives and doing all the things wife has been doing for years. (I’m helping out more around the house
and with kids backpacks, school work, baths, etc.
I’m healthy, attractive, funny, good with our kids, (all things others have said) mil, w, friends (hers and mine) etc.

When W does go out she goes with sister or girlfriend from work (girlfriend from work also wants wife to stay)
The places they go to are pretty small and not the kind of place you’d go to find a man although anything is poss.
She always drives because she is the one who doesn’t drink much and she doesn’t believe in drinking and driving.
So it’s not like she is getting drunk, which makes me feel a little more secure and I have friends that see her out and tell me she is not with anyone other than girls and she’s never been the type to flirt so I’m pretty confident that things are safe.

She also had a best friend that lived next door to us and she just moved (far away) and W had a very hard time when she left
because they were very close friends and W could talk to her anytime.

About 7 years ago I had a real bad time with depression and suicidal thoughts and mil told me that wife was always afraid to talk
to me about problems we had in fear I would relapse, I have since been put on medication and haven’t had any problems for 5-6 years.
W knows I am emotionally stable enough to handle any news now.
I’m afraid that things have gotten so bad (in her mind) dealing with all of this for so long that she is at the point of no return.
Any thoughts on that?

My wife and I have never communicated very good and she and I both know this has been a problem for a long time,
mil also said I need to talk to wife more when I get home from work about her day etc. I have been doing this a lot now and I
can definitely see a difference in our relationship. W will talk to me about it a lot now so I know one of her EN is conversation.
All in all my W is very nice to me and has never been rude, no DJ’s, no yelling etc, as far as I can tell she’s not mad at me, she
don’t hate me, and I don’t think she sees me as unattractive, we have always had a good sex life and about 2 weeks ago I asked if we could fool around and she said no and when I asked why she said it was just to emotional right now for her, so I haven’t asked
her anymore for SF.

When I was doing the 180 (which I did totally wrong by the way) I could feel the tension and frustration building up in her.
I don’t think she sees me as “really needy” right now, but I feel that way, so I’m sure to a certain extent she sees a little of it.
I’m just trying to give her space and be patient.
When I go to bed at night she always comes with me or asks me if I’m ready to go but last night she said she was going to watch about
10 minutes of the news so I just said “alright, goodnight, and then I said ilu and she came in about 5 minutes later.

When I went to work this morning I said “ have a good day” and she said “you to” and then I said “love you”.
I have been doing this for a long time now and I only stopped when I was doing the 180 and she didn’t seem to like it then, so
I decided to start again…I don’t feel like I am being needy because I don’t say it in a way where she has to answer me, I usually just say it like above.
I don’t say it and then stand there and look at her like I’m waiting for a response, and I told her about 3 weeks ago that I want her to know that I love her and I’m going to say it when I’m leaving or hanging up the phone, but that didn’t mean she had to say anything back to me if that’s not how she felt, and that it was ok.
She just said ok.

Last night my sister called and asked me if I would go to my mom and dads with her for the weekend (about 400 miles away).
W asked how sister was doing (she just had a lump removed from breast) and I told her she is doing fine now and we talked about that for a while then I asked her what she thought about me leaving for the weekend and she said “you mentioned that last week and I told
you that it sounded like a good idea to me, you need to get away from everything for a while and just chill”
I said “I really hate to leave you” and she said “I know but you need to get away from sister, and kids for a couple of days”
So I said I would take care of laundry and things on Thursday night so she wouldn’t have so much to do this weekend and she said “that’s ok, I don’t have any plans except to hang out with the kids”.

She told me last night that daughter 7 has a open house at school today and wondered if I wanted to go instead of her, and I said
I would go and then I also said that instead of dropping off D at babysitters that I would bring her back to work with me for the last 2 hours, (she loves coming to work with me, and work loves having her there) and W said “oh she’ll love that”. In the past as a sahm she always did the kid things but since she went back to work I go to the school now when one of the kids are sick instead of her because I work a lot closer than her.

She seemed very happy about this and always says thank you, where in the past I never thanked her for all the things she did I now tell her thank you more and more often.

Enough for now...if you have any more questions, just ask,

I started out having a bad morning today, why? I dont know...just one of those things.
I went back to my first post and have been reading the replies from all of you and I realized, the advice you all have given me is very upbeat and when applied, actually makes me feel better and I can see where it makes W more at ease too.
Having said that, I just wanted to thank you all again.

I can see the items I need to work on and some of the items on the 180 list will help me as well.

JS

Why not list them and then give us a report on how you're doing with them?

It helps (me) to know people are watching and monitoring.

The 180 List and my Answers


1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore.
2. No frequent phone calls
3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
4. Do not follow her around the house.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
****not doing 1-5
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
****I did talk to mil…she called me to talk….she wants us to work things out and wanted to know how I was doing.
7. Do not ask for reassurances.
8. Do not buy gifts.
9. Do not schedule dates together.
10. Do not spy on spouse.
11. Do not say "I Love You".
****I have done this in the recent past, everytime I leave, hangup phone etc…but not a lot lately and its more like “love you” maybe 2-3 times a week
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
****trying to do this…
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
****Starting to do this real well
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
****going to mom and dads this weekend.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
****conversation is big for her so some I start and some she starts but its actually relaxing for both of us to chat.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.
****don’t do this anymore AT ALL…she’s noticed.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
****not ready to do this 100% but she does know that I’m making changes for me and the kids.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing
****Check****
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show her someone she would want to be around.
**** I’ve been doing this real well, upbeat about my life etc.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
*****haven’t said a word about any of this for a long time…MB rule #1 no R talk.
21. Never lose your cool.
****not a problem so far…I need to be carefull on this though because I have done this in the past.
22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic.
****maybe need to work on this ????
23. Do not argue about how she feels (it only makes their feelings stronger).
****I will never do this again…”I hope”
24. Be patient.
****Check
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
****I’ve been doing this for a while now and it even makes me feel good about myself when I do this.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out.
*****Don’t want to speak out…wife is always nice to me, never a DJ etc. My reading MB has taught me that I’ve always been bad about LB’s, DJ’s, and not meeting EN’s…where as my W has treated me as if she read this websight years ago.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
****I’m taking care of myself ok…. BUT, focusing on anything other than W and M has been hard but I’m working on it.
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly.
****Doing good here.
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
****I’m starting to understand how this works.
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.
****Pretty much got this in check.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
****we don’t talk about M or R at all…wife never talks about it and neither do I (now) but I understand (now) just in everyday conversations with her, about her work and some of her frustrations, on how to do this (good practice for when she is ready to talk) before I would always try to give her advice on how to deal with work problems etc. now I just listen because I know she is just venting and she’s told me before “I’m just venting” but I always tried to find a solution cause I WASN”T LISTENING
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because she is hurting and scared.
****I keep this one in my pocket as a reminder.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
****no way no how, we have always been to close and I love her no matter what….I know, I know, a lot of people here at MB say this and then later they cahnge there minds, but I’m doing this for me, my kids, and for my wonderfull W
34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.
****I swear

Last night I went to the library and got a library card and checked out “5 Love Languages”..I wanted to get “His Needs Her Needs but they didn’t have it but they said they could order it for me so I’ll read this one first…
I’m going to read every book you tell me to.

This morning when I went to leave for work I gave kids hugs and kisses and told them I was leaving for work and that I was going to my mom and dads for the weekend and when I came back in the room D7 was hugging W and crying her eyes out saying “I don’t want Daddy to leave”…. WOW…can I get some help getting my heart back in my chest, lol
I told W, “look out for your white shirt” (so D7 don’t get tears all over it) and she never flinched, she just kept hugging D7 and reassuring her that I would be home soon.

Gave wife a 1/2 shoulder hug and said “have a good weekend baby” and she said you to…I’m sure she was waiting for me to say “ILU” and give her a hug and a kiss as I have done in the past, but I didn’t (I’m Really not to sure what to do about that hugging and ILU stuff just yet)
It seams to me that if I was trying to show her all my love in order for her to want to stay M that I would be able to say ILU and give her big hugs…she don’t pull away or look at me funny when I do this so I kind of think she likes it but I don’t know…What do you guys think?

I’ve got to go now and get on the road so I’ll try tyo check the boards when I get to mom and dads house other wise I’ll be back on Monday morning…
Thank You all
JS

Last Friday when I left work to go down to my mom and dads, I called W at work and said “I’m leaving work right now” and she said “Oh good, you got out of work a little early.
I said “yea we weren’t busy so they told me to go ahead and go, I’m going right by your work on the way to the interstate, You want me to stop by so you can give me a big hug and a kiss? (laughing).
She said “Uhhh, Yea I could run out real quick and do that”. I said “do you want to?...she said “well? I really want to finish this work I’m in the middle of” and I said “That’s fine I’ll just head straight out then”.

Then we just talked a little bit about how her day was going and how my day was going and etc. and she said have fun and I’ll see you on Sunday, and I just told her about what the plan was for my weekend and that was it.
I called her Saturday night and talked to her for about 15 mins about how the day went and what we did and she said she was at one of her sisters friends house at a (going away party) and there were lots of kids there for our kids to play with and they were having a fire etc.

D7 got on the phone and said “Hi daddy, I miss you, I love you, etc. then W and I talked a little more and then we hung up.
When I got home Sunday evening kids ran up and gave me hugs and W was at door to (to greet me) and she looked like she was waiting for me to hug her but I didn’t.
She looked a little surprised….I did give her a hug later and said that I missed her and the kids and I wish they had come then I just talked about the time I had and she told me what she had been doing.
When I hugged her, I also took her face in my hands and gave her a quick kiss on the lips and she said “I probably have bad breath” I said “nope it was fine”


****I would like advice on the (hugs and kisses stuff) based on the following info********

When I was avoiding her last week (as a result of me doing the 180 wrong) her mother called me and asked me what was wrong because W called her and said I was leaving the room every time she went into a room and I was starting to avoid her and I said “that’s not what I was trying to do” and that I was just trying to “Not smother her” and “give her space” and mil said “well that’s not going so well”
And I said “ok thanks for telling me because I really don’t know what to do anymore and I’m just trying to make her as comfortable as possible and show her I’m trying real hard to change.

I don’t want to keep initiating hugs and kisses if you think I shouldn’t but I don’t want to look like I’m just giving up either.

Any answers for me?
JS

JS, just one perspective, but for me the 180 is more about you than what S thinks. Like a way to stop being smothering and get your autonomy back. So if you can give her a hug with a pure intent to show love, and if she doesn't return it, you're still okay, go for it. But if you are showing affection to feel it coming back, and it will hurt you if she doesn't respond, that wouldn't be a good idea. It sounds like you are trying to send W a message, if that's the case, could you talk it out with her, what kind of affection she'd like, and you can give, without hurting your feelings?

I realize the 180 is for me but I think I need to be carefull not to let W think I'm moving on without her or that I'm not interested in showing her love and affection, (something I didn't do a whole lot before)




I told her quite a while back that I was going to continue to show her my love and say ilu and that if she didn't want to say it back yet, that was ok and I understand.
And she does hug me back when I hug her so do you think I should continue or no?

(tough question huh).



She has never said anything negative to me other than she was "just confused and wasn't happy and wanted to be on her own" but I don't really want to bring up M or R talks right now

There's the quandry, because the goal is to go back when it was all so easy, where you two just enjoyed one another, know what I mean?

Do you have already the information you need? You said you didn't used to show her much affection, is this something she used to ask for? Has she been comfortable asking you in the past for what she wants, or would she have felt rejected and held it in?

If she's hugging you back, what do you think that means? That she wanted to hug? It sounds from your description above that she likes to hug you, but is afraid to initiate? Is that typical with other things or just affection?

Personally, I'm still at the point where it gives me a little sting when I say ILU and it's returned with silence, but if you've grown beyond that, you can try it and gague her reaction. From what I've read in the 180 the situation not to do that would also be if they're not feeling love back, in that case ILU would make them feel bad instead of good. What is the case for you?

This is not going to be a very long post, but I just wanted to make a few comments for you.

I married very young to a man who ended up making me feel the ways you say your wife told you that you make her feel. I did leave several times and he always convinced me that he would change and so I would go back. If he HAD actually changed, and stopped all those LBs, then I probably would have stayed with him. BUT, I agree with what the poster above said.... if she is "feeling her oaties" so to speak, not really wanting to be married anymore, just wanting freedom... you need to weigh in your own head whether you want somebody back under those conditions.

I have prayed for you, and will do so again.

We just dont ever talk so I really dont know.

I just read the 5 love languages and I'm more confused then ever because I read where they say to show then all the love you can and try to get them comfortable to talk to you.

The book seams to fall in line with MB practices of always showing how great things could be and to discuss them, but maybe I'm afraid of the answers...I just don't know anymore.

I've always told W ilu and I've always complemented her in front of friends and family and one on one and we've always been close so I'm just trying to figure out whats the best approach.

If I move on (so to speak) won't that show me as uncaring to our situation?

I really don't feel like I'm coming across as needy because I never ask her any questions about "us"
I just go about business as usual and tell her "love you" every other day...like this morning before I left for work, we talked a little about work and other things and then I said "have a good day at work and gave her a hug...she hugs me back but I'm not sure why...is it because she wants to get those feelings back for me or because she is just a good person who cares about me..

This is just kind of weird.......I kind of think that maybe she will have to leave me before she figures out if she wants to be with me or not.

I'm not giving up on her, I love her and we have 3 wonderfull kids together and I don't want it to end.
Do I hang in there or try and distance myself and move on?

JS