Do you believe distancing yourself is what you need to do to protect the love you have for your W? Is that really going to be a working behavior for you and for her?

I doubt it.

Again, JS, I just don't like blindly doing 180s because it's sometimes hard to judge what is working and what isn't. Your W isn't verbally communicating with you but she is participating in some physical affection (returning hugs). So long as she's trying to GET BACK that feeling by participating (fake it till she makes it) I would continue to do those things that show her that you love her.

Anything else comes off as you trying to punish her. You have to judge for yourself whether you can continue to provide affection knowing what you know and getting what you get in return from her. Be honest, be true to yourself. So long as she doesn't view your affections as being needy or clingy then I'd suggest you continue to do what you are doing.

I think it's important for you to find ways to show your W she can love you and still feel somewhat independent. I'm not suggesting IB but something that helps her build self confidence and self reliance. Any ideas on how to help her with that?

I don't think so either.


I have to agree with you here and as far as not getting anything in return, I've accepted that she doesn't have the same feelings fer me anymore and that she (is trying to get them back) (thats what I see anyway)
And I also realize its my job to "work on things" and see if it makes a differance in her life.
I really don't expect her to just say "ok I'm staying here because you have been so great now" I know its gonna take time and yes sometimes I wish it were NOW but I'm willing to make the long commitment to showing her how I've changed and as in an earlier post someone said "it should take 1 month for every year you were married and more if you have kids and I'm ok with that.


After coming to MB I know I can do it...I now have the tools to do it and I dont follow her around and I don't ask questions anymore, I support her job and we just talk about life in general.


I'm still thinking on this one, I'll get back to you.
Thank you all so much for responding...
I'm sorry if I didn't answer all of your posts but I get something from everyone of them...Its always good to get as many oppinions as possible as see things "from other peoples Lives"

Thank You again
JS

Ears,




This is exactly what I'm trying to do.
Just show her the "olD loving me"



I'm sure she just wants me to know she still cares about me as a person so its my job to show her that I still care for her as my W, lover, friend.



I'm actually ok with her not saying ilu back because if she did say it I would never be able to tell whats real and whats fake and when she does say it now, like "love you to" or "you too" when I say ilu i think its more out of habit then anything else and I don't make a big deal out of it because maybe she's just feeling that way at that moment.
I mean we have said that to one another for years up untill recently.


I'm sure she feels a little bad for not saying it back, but I don't think she feels it right now and still has thoughts of leaving and that would be misleading if she said ilu then said "Oh by the way I'm leaving" but at least if she does start saying it back (sincerely) I will know its not for any other reason then to tell me she loves me.

Does that make sense?


Thank you Ears
JS

Thank You "Stuck"

This is great to hear because this is exactly what I'm doing...but I am doing it for me, my W and my kids. as another poster stated "you have to want to change for YOURSELF, your W, your kids and the bonus to changing is it carries over to all of your other relationships and future relationships"

I need to change, and I see it now, I wish I had seen it before but as I always say better late then never.


She's not wanting to be a wild women or anything but she wants to feel like she has a say in our lives (something I now see I never gave her before) she wants to feel like this life is mine too not just his.
I realize my shortcomings now and I need to fix them.

I hope it makes a differance in her life but if it don't I will be a better person in the end for it.

Thank you so much for writing me...It's always good to know people are listening and its good to here from them about there past experiences.
You just gave me a bunch of hope.
JS

That does, and along with MyA's insights, it sounds like you are doing positive things for both of you. I'm sorry if you've already answered this, but do the kids know what is going on? How are they doing?

Ears
We have not talked to kids about anything.
MC said if W needed to leave that she needs to "get a place on her own" and do it "quick" (as to not hurt me anymore) and tell the kids but don't tell them untill you have a place and are ready to move because they will "act out in ways you can't imagine" and that the 2 young ones will not be as big a problem as 13S.
They said 13S will not accept this in any way, shape or form and that it was going to be a very big strugle to keep him in line.

W and I discussed this about a month ago at length but have not discussed it anymore recently.
JS

Wednesday evening, came home from work, went with W to the store to get a few things, on the way there I ask W, “how did your doctors appointment go today”? (yearly exam)
She said “well I did something today” (of course because I’m so damn insecure I start worrying about (the unknown) and say what?)
She said “I got the depo shot” (for those saying what’s that) it’s a birth control shot that also stops monthly cycle.

All dumbo me can think about is “why does she need birth control”?...I’m snipped!
Well my insecurities didn’t allow me to share in the happiness of her news and that she won’t have to deal with “the week of bleeding” anymore.

I kept asking “what did you do that for?”, “ Isn’t that birth control?”, LB BIG TIME
Well anyways we discussed it more and more and then I remember her telling me sometime ago (before I got snipped) that she knew of 2 girls who were getting these shots and that she wanted to start that (not for birth control as much as the no bleeding part) and wondered what I thought and at the time and I said “that’s an awesome idea, go for it”

Looking back I can see what my “new response” would be.
Alright!!!…… you always wanted to do that, I’m glad you did it.

Woulda, coulda, shoulda.

Oh well, I even knew at the time, I screwed up, but I never even tried to correct it at the time.
I understand you can't go back 5 or 6 years but why can't we go back a few minutes or maybe even 1 day.
UUUGGGHHH

Then later we were all just sitting around and she just up and said “I’ll be right back”


Well, I messed up again…2nd time tonight.



I said “where ya going”
She said “Be right back”

So she comes homes 15 minutes later and I said “Where’d you go?”
And she said “nowhere”

Later she told me she just needed to get away for a little bit.

I figured she was off calling her mom or something and I was just curious, (She’s reading INSECURE)
Turns out she just wanted to get away, (probably because I didn’t share her joy in her earlier news, )she also looked like she might have been upset a little (crying) and she didn’t even take her phone with her anyway. (See I am insecure) (She knows me to well)

Now I’m starting to realize, from past experiences, that she wants me to feel as excited about her news “the shot” as she feels.

I’m such a slowwwww learner.

She was a little irritated when I kept asking what she did but she was very nice after I “let it go”

JS

So you admit to screwing up twice.

What, if anything, are you going to rectify what you did? An admission of guilt along with an apology and a stated plan for future actions could go a long ways.

Don't just let these things sit hoping she's forgetting them. How she's supposed to know you're trying to change if you don't admit to your mistakes? Get out of your comfort zone and help reduce the impact of the LBs.

I guess thats what I wanted to here... I'll talk to her tonight.
Can you call her for me? lol

Got home tonight, usual small talk about W's work etc. W had a rough day today so I asked her if she wanted to run out for ice cream, she said "no I got an appointment tonight"
I said oh ok,

Here it comes

She said "I'm going to look at an apartment and I got to be there in a few minutes,
I said I just wanted to tell you a few things and she said ok but I only got a few minutes.

We went outside and I told her that "I had a couple of things that I wanted to tell her" and she said "go ahead" and I said "first I wanted to appoligise for my behavier the other night when you told me about your shot and that I was still really bad about (thinking about myself) instead of being happy for you" and she said
"thats alright youv'e always been that way" and I said I know but I don't want to be that way and I'm really trying to change and that I also shouldn't have questioned you about where you were going the other night when you left.

She said "you always give me the 20 questions whenever I do anything and I said I know but thats wrong and I've realised that now and I'm trying to work on my insecurities and I said that I never realized how youv'e felt all of these years about how much you really loved me and I always thought that you were so beautifull that I didn't measure up and I was always worried about losing you.

I said I'm trying to understand why I felt this way and I think its due to things I carried over from my first M.
I said I don't want to make excuses but that I wanted to learn how to change myself, I said I do the same things with the kids and I need to change for them to.

She really didn't seam to care and kind of looked mad.

I didn't really get to do this the way I wanted to.
She had to leave and I was in a hurry to finish.

I didn't cyr but it was all I could do to hold it back, and my voice was a little shakey.

I did tell her that I was not going to stop learning about how to change and that I was not giving up on our M and I was going to keep telling her ilu and I didn't expect her to say it back to me untill she really meant it.

I said I appreciate the fact that I can trust her when she talks to me and that I wished she would talk to me more in the future and give me a chance to show her I'm changing.

I said "I want to show you the changes, not tell you about them" and "action speak louder than words" (I've heard that more than once from a lot of you here at MB)

I'm don't know what to do.
Any ideas? anybody?

I'm really crashing hard, I think the apartment she is looking at is way to expensive for her so I don't know what to think.

Got to go
JS

I'm glad I have all of you out there.

Good Morning All, another long post
W left last night to go look at apartment and about an hour later she called me (obviously upset) she said (very shaky voice) “I’m not going to be home right away” I said (upbeat voice) “that’s fine, by”.
Now as you all know, everything possible is coming to mind, like,

1 She got the place and is upset. (She can’t afford it right now anyway, so doubtful)
2 She’s having 2nd thoughts? (well duh!)
3 She’s is closer to the realization of all of this. (good thing, I think,) ( she’s thinking can I do this, or should I do this?

I already know that if she does this it aint gonna be easy on either one of us or our kids.

If she leaves at least I know were one step closer to finding out if she can and then we will have that question answered.
Whew, see what I mean guys I just ramble on and on.

Anyways, she’s gone for a couple of hours and I’m outside with the kids and talking to the neighbors and she turns the corner and starts coming down the street, sister in law’s boyfriends car is sitting in front of our house and neighbors car is sitting in front of there house so she going to pull in between them…(plenty of room, I might add) and BOOM she cuts a little to short and right side of our van catches front bumper of silbf’s car. All the neighbors are outside and everybody just goes quiet, I sit there in disbelief at what I just saw and then run out to the van to see if she’s alright, at this point she is laying on the steering wheel crying. (let me just add that this is a full size van and W is a great driver) So I help her out of the van and sil and neighbor are helping to and I pull the van over and she is sitting on the curb (head in hands crying) and I try to help her up and tell her to go inside and she says “just leave me alone” “I cant move” and I said “its ok its ok”

I sat outside for quite a while and later went inside and she was sitting in the chair and said “I’m not moving” “I Just wacked sil in the head with the cupboard door” (loud laughter in the room).
I said “I’m going to bed” and she says “me too”.

Pretty quiet at first and then I said “I feel so bad for you because you had such a bad day and it hurts me to see you that way”.
She said “I’m so sorry” I said “that’s alright, the van is not in that bad of shape and I’ll call the insurance company tomorrow and take care of it so just relax, she starts crying again and tells me I went to meet the lady about the apartment and it was a two bedroom and everything looked nice until I said that I have three kids and the lady said I’m sorry you have to get a three bedroom if you have three kids and W says “that’s why I just lost it and then I went to grandma’s house and just cried.

Rubbed her back a little and then went to sleep.
This morning we talked about her work and what’s going on there and generally just (let her vent) and then I got behind her
And gave her a big hug around the waist and she held me back real tight and then she started to tear up and she said “I just don’t want to cry anymore” and I said “everything will be alright” and I went back in the bedroom then I went back in the bathroom with my underwear down and did (the helicopter) for her (guys you know what I mean) she just shook her head and laughed and I said “you know me anything for a laugh” then when I left for work I went up to her on the couch and put my hand on her cheek and said, “Have a good day” “ilu”

JS

Hey JSlost,
I found this site a couple of weeks ago and have followed your topic for about a week. I am going through almost the identical situation you are. My wife comes out of the blue(July 2005) and says she's not happy and wants her freedom, says I've controlled her, and she has alwasys been under someone else's roof(her fathers and mine). She says I am a great father and provider and all her family members agree(her family is all for her staying with me). We have good days and bad but I'm usually the one saying "ilu" which she used to say all the time. Just from reading your posts I have found alot of similarities with my situation. I don't have alot of answers for you since I am still struggling with this(hardest thing ever) but would like to share thoughts,etc.

JS,

Just wanted to say I am still following this thread and praying for you. I was just like your wife several years ago when I left my ex. I didn't realize I had put him through so much, and I regret it, though heaven knows he had it coming and never really did change. I think you have every hope, just MAKE YOUR CHANGES STICK!

God Bless you and I fervently wish you happiness.

Jtodd,

Welcome to MB
Its always nice to see that your not alone.


You will find that no one really has any answers for you JT but I've gotten the best advice ever from this sight and I'm doing pretty well considering the situation.
Stick around and keep reading and I'll keep posting my day to day as much as I can.

Start a post of your own or hang around this one and we can share advice on the same post.

There are so many people on here that want nothing more then to help you get through this and the advice that I have gotten here has already shown an improvement in my situation and has helped me cope with all of this.

These people here have been through every situation you can imagine so ask questions when you need to because thats what there here for.

No question will be looked upon as dumb and you won't be judged.
JS

Stuck,

Thank you so much for prayers and any advice you think of I will listen to

I know my wife still loves me and she is really struggling through all of this.
As far as my changes, it has made me feel so much better about myself to be (changing) but its hard not to think like the (old me).
I'm working on it and W and I talked about this last night and she is so upset that she feels like she has never been able to do anything on her own, she says she likes to just (get away), I asked "why do you want to get away from your kids"?
She said no "I want to get away from feeling like I have to please you"

I want to be able to sit at my (new place) and watch a movie with the kids or take them somewhere and not know I have to try and please you all of the time,
just do whatever I feel like and have all of the control of what decisions to make everyday.

She has felt like I'm so controlling and I said thats not how I intended to be and that was sometimes just (her state of mind) and she agreed.
I said "I guess whats so hard now is to make your own decisions without worrying about me and its hard to see when I'm changing when your still looking at the same person.

More later
Thank you so much for helping me.
JS

Friday I left work at 11:00 a.m. because a lot of things just sort of “Hit Me” (boss could see I was lost and said just go) went to the park and finished reading (the 5 Love Languages) then ate lunch then reread the pages from this web sight .(I printed off a whole binder full of MB stuff), took a walk around the park and really got my head back on, stayed until about 4:30, went to the library and ordered (His Needs Her Needs) then went home.

Seams like W is really trying to pull away and is very unhappy, Saturday night she put her P.J’s and makeup bag in a plastic bag and set them on our bed with her purse. I never asked her anything and decided to just let her do whatever she wanted to do.
She put her shoes on twice and walked outside a couple of times, she looks like someone who is just looking for a answer to all of this…she’s very lost I think.
Well, she just laid on the loveseat all evening and never said much, I figured she was waiting for the kids to go to bed and then leaving.
(She left back in October one night, went to her grandma’s for dinner then sat in a hotel all night,(her GM and I suggested she do this) she told me about a week later that she just cried all night, never called anybody, never even turned the TV on.)
She never did leave Saturday.
Later I noticed she had put her stuff away and then she just slept on the loveseat all night.

Sunday she talked to her mom on the phone for quite a while, I just went outside and put up a new pool that I got for the kids that morning so she wouldn’t be interrupted then later noticed she had been crying quite a bit.

She came out later and said I’m going to leave for a little bit (she had the newspaper with her) so I didn’t ask her any questions I just said O.K.

I talked to her mom a little bit to see if I had said anything that might have upset W as she has been acting very “distant” all of the sudden.
I told Mil that W has been really, really upset lately and I wondered if there was something I might have done wrong or something I could do.
Mil said W is definitely going to have to leave and that W knows that now but she can’t seam to figure out how to do it because she can’t afford anything right now and she feels so trapped.
Mil also suggested that wife “get away” and go to the park and just watch the boats or read the newspaper and when W got home she also had a paper listing of all of the rentals around that she left sitting on our bed.
Again, I never mentioned anything to her and just made small talk the rest of the day.
Mil also said “don’t ask her any questions because she always felt like I was interrogating her in the past and that wife would talk to me anyway in a day or two.

Last Thursday when she went to look at the apartment, I didn’t ask her any questions when she got home and later that night, in bed she told me all about what happened and what she felt.

I think that W is going to have to leave before she figures out if we have a future together and in her mind she say’s that she is 100% sure that we do not.
She is just done.

I told her I was not giving up on our M and that I won’t give up.
There are times when she looks content or even happy but lately she has looked very distant and very unhappy and she is back to sleeping on the couch at night, she told me in bed the other night that being here with me is very hard.
It makes me think that she might be having feelings for me sometimes and then she remembers what she is doing and why she is doing it.

What do I do now???
I know I should just hang in there but any other advice??

Does anybody have a post on here that looks like mine so I can see what happens in the end????

Lost/Dazed and Confused.
JS

Does anybody have a post on here that looks like mine so I can see what happens in the end????

I'm serious Help!
JS

JS,

I'm going to tell you what to do chere:

Be Still!! Your patience, your ability to concentrate on you....and gain some inner peace...rather than involving yourself in her chaos is what will help you right now. Are you capable of letting go of her confusion? Rather than obsessing about what every action or thought of hers may be? It is fear that is driving you right now....concentrate on overcoming your own fear and you WILL be far more attractive to your wife.

I know you are in pain....I am so sorry. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> One of you....and I elect YOU, must give your children a port in this storm. The more you NEED her....the less she will want you. Want her, love her....but don't need her.

Get back in touch with the man you were when she fell in love with you.

Star,

Thank you for the thoughts, It helps...

I'm really trying but I haven't figured out how to...let it go...


I mostly get worried after reading other post's here, It seams that every W or H is a WW or WH and this is the first question everyone asks you, so I keep thinking when is this going to happen to us?


How do I want her and love her without making it look like I need her?
Any Ideas?...I'm kinda dumb on this.


I don't remember him very well but I will try to remember what he (I) was like.

Thank you for the ideas,
JS

JS,

Here's my email: starfish4729@gmail.com I'm not always available here....but I do usually check my email and if I can give you some added support....I will. I understand how desperate you feel right now....but your desperation and sadness translates as "neediness" and weakness to your wife. You need to face your fears. So lets talk a little bit about the worse case scenario okay? What if your wife rejects your marriage and leaves you with the children? Let's talk about the fear that you feel at that moment and how to overcome that.....okay?