Am I the only one starting to get ticked off at how JS is being treated? I mean..... gosh!

Why stuck, Whatever do you mean? lol

Hey Mya, Your one smart cookie...me not so smart...kinda slohhhhwww.
I wasn't sure if there was a hidden meaning there or just a typo..Type O,,,,tipeoh,,arrrrghh...whatever.

Wife just called, I told her in an e-mail that i was getting pizza tonight and she said "are you going right after work...(she works till 5:00 also tonight) and I said "no I'll go home first so the sitter can get home and she said "I gotta go look at a place tonight and it will only take a minute so I wont be right home and I said "do you want me to call it in and let you go get it? she said "no just wait till I get home and then we can order it. " i said...ohhhhh kayyyy, but you always say you'll only be a minute and then your gone for an hour and i don't want to wait that long...she said no, I wont be that long.

(I know I know major LB)


Uuuughghhghg, when the he!! do i go to plan B...oh wait a minute, thats somebody else's post...wait a minute, who's thread am I on......sorry...as the kids all say "My Bad"

You know what? I'm starting my own plan A...I'll call it plan A+, I'll do what makes me happy and still fill W up with something I call Emotional needs and then I'll stop all of the love busters and wala...waalaa? wahlah. whatever...

Thank you Steve H.

Oh wait thats been done here already....its been a long day here at work and slow slow slow so all I've been doing is reading other peoples posts

Whats up with that?
JS

I see you still have a sense of humer (assuming you had one before).

I like Plan A+.

Yeah, I have one...sometimes it just gets misplaced but oh well, you gotta laugh when things hurt, ya know?

W went to look at apartment last night after work, when she got home, I asked how'd it go?..........(I usually don't ask her anything but she told me before she left work that she was going to look at a place)........ She said it was $@@@.@@ a month rent and that she didn't know what to do cause it wasn't gonna last long.

I was very calm and trying to think like you Mya, I said, "can you afford that?"
W "I don't know"
JS "I'm not sure what your asking me."
W " I'm not sure what to do".
JS "You could get a house for that much"
W "I know thats what I want to do but my name is on this house and they probably would'nt give me a loan.

At that point I just felt lower than snake poop...I mean, how could she be thinking about buying a house...That's pretty [email]Da@n[/email] permanent in my mind.

W "how do I get my name off of this house"?
JS "I'd have to refinance".
W "oh, well, thats out of the question".
JS well, It would cost a little to refinance"...money we don't have btw............"Then it would take a lot longer to".
W (starting to tear up) I just feel so trapped here and I feel like I've been just sitting on my hands and not doing anything".
JS "well, have you sat down and figured out how much you can afford per month, after bills and everything"?
W "no"
JS "maybe you could sit down and figure out how much your bills are gonna be and see whats left over for rent and kind of go from there".
W "this apartment will go quick".
JS "you know i can't pay you anything untill after we sell the van".
W "I know, I hav'nt even done anything about that yet either.

Now at this point in the past I would of said, you need to do this or you need to do that, but Mya wouldn't have said that.

JS "dont you have to pay 1st mo. and last mo. rent?"
W "yeah"
Js "you know we don't have that kind of money"
W "I can get it"
Js "from your mom?"
W "yeah"
Js "well, thats up to you"
Js "I'm not sure what your asking me here, do you want my help?"
W "no I just feel so trapped"
Js "well, there are alternatives"
W "like what?"

She's thinking I'm gonna go the....MC route...or stay married or something like that...thats what I did in the past.

JS "you could move in with someone else, you could move out in a smaller place thats a little cheaper and leave the kids here, you could get a place with your sister...(she needs a place now to).
W "no, I can't leave my kids"
JS "well, I don't know what to tell you".

JS "I'm sorry but I can't help you with this but I will listen whenever you want to talk about it".

W you just don't understand how trapped i feel and how hard it is to want to do something and not have the money to do it...etc.etc.

JS "no I dont know how you feel, all I can think about is family, not seperation".

JS "hi I like to order a pizza".

we ate dinner and then I went outside with the kids and later came in for some water and asked, "you coming out?.
W "yeah maybe, in a little bit"
JS "k"

She called her old GF that used to live next door amd talked about an hour and a half, they hadn't talked in a long time, so I didn't really see her the rest of the night except later when the kids and i went in I told her I wanted to talk to freind to....we were very close to this girl and she was like family to us, so she gave me the phone and put the kids to bed.

I talked to f about my sit. she knows most of it.... she said you don't sound to good, i told her about the house bying thing and how bad that made me feel and she said you know JS she is leaving and you need to be prepared for that.

I said I'm trying
Friend "W used to talk to me all of the time about her problems but she never mentioned leaving you, but now she is saying it and you know her JS when she says something that means she has made up her mind.

JS, I just don't understand, i mean if she wanted someone else I could understand it maybe, but whats this all about?.

F I dont think she wants anyone else, she just feels like she has to figure out who she is. etc.etc.

Went back in and told wife goodnight,
W goodnight.

read some more of HN's HN's and then walked back out in the living room and said, Did you want to talk about the apartment situation anymore?
W "no
JS "k GN"

did give her a little 1 handed shoulder hug this morn. and said have a god day sweetie.

JS

So I'm still sitting here questioning exactly what is it your W wants?

It does seem to boil down to a strong desire to feel independant. But that could be a bad assumption and it could just be she feels trapped by you. I haven't seen much outside of your admission of insecurities regarding her going out without you so I don't know if the latter is the case.

Still, I think we need to work in the present. She feels trapped in the current arrangement because she wants out but I assume the trapped feeling was different before she decided to move out.

I wouldn't try to help her move out. She wants to quit working and communicating with you then that's her thing ... not yours. Don't make it difficult but make her do the work. Listening is good. Offering solutions isn't.

I would encourage you to start a discussion here to gameplan a way you can give her some freedom yet still remain in the same house and possibly work on the marriage.

Hi JS, I'm quite new to this site and have just read through all of your posts. I'm going through much the same thing as you at the moment so I'm sorry I can't give you any advice but I just wanted you to know that I'm hear as well and am rooting for you every step of the way. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks Mya,

I used to make all of the decisions on everything, oh sure we'd discuss them, but my way was always right...she's very reserved and talks very slow and I talk fast...before she can tell me how she feels, I made the decision.
wrong I know.
She has said before that I treat her more like a father than a husband...(guilty)... you know....she says this is how I feel and i say this is how you are suppose to feel, and your wrong, etc.

She does feel trapped because right now she can't afford to leave so she's kind of.......stuck here,

I'm sure the thought of telling the kids and knowing darn well they won't want to leave is bothering her to.

We have an awsome subdivision where the neighbors are all like family and they come and go all of the time.
The kids have friends and such and I have no doubt that there not going to want to live in some apartment while dad is in this big beutifull house.

I knew after I did this it was wrong but I did keep my cool and I tried to talk to her like I was (just a friend) not an oppininated husband.....all new behavier for me.

My problem is I want to approach her again about taking the kids with her...I would like to say that if your leaving then go, but don't take the kids with you.
I know, I know, Mya, I won't

I'm not real thrilled (as you can imagine) about not having my kids with me.
Thats the other problem, because what is everybody going to think about me letting her go to some little apartment with 3 kids and I stay in our big house by myself..

I've never even hinted about me leaving or selling the house or anything like that...I think I even told her before, that I wasn't losong my house, no matter what.

I talked to her about this very subject a while back and asked her if there was anyway we could share the same house
she said no that won't work.

I understand...if she's still with me I'm still controlling her.

I told her that I know I need to change and stop being so controlling but I also need to know exactly what changes she wanted to see in me.

Didn't really get a response on that cause she wasn't to hip on the idea anyway.

I wish I had a game plan...anyway I'm just letting her come and go as she pleases and not commenting on any of it...something I wish I had done before, I mean, she is a big girl and can take care of herself.

JS

Hey Eco,

Your in a very good place now, please stick around and listen to what people here are telling you and really really concentrate hard on making your changes.

You will get stronger in time. In the mean time try and worry about you and what you want and keep your kids close to your heart.


Stay strong
JS

Another long weekend……. bad ending……… JS losing hope.

I don’t think I’ve been doing so good on my changes, I guess maybe I feel a little like a door mat sometimes and am getting a little resentful about that.

Well, she’s still looking at apartments, she looked at one Saturday morning, said it was real nice, didn’t get it though, we still need to sell the van first.
We dropped the van off at the body shop last night to get it fixed, after that we sell it.
Kids went to bed last night, wife lying on couch, me on the loveseat, I just said, “W, I love you, I love you so much.
She just looked up at me and I said I just wanted you to know that.

I went over to her and said “ I will help you with whatever you need, I’ll help you sell the van, I’ll help you get an apartment etc.
She just said ok.

A while back I had the feeling I was getting through to her and maybe she was questioning her feelings but I think maybe I love busted a little bit….and when I say that, let me just explain.

I’ve been this way for 43+ years and she see’s me as one way……. Now, I can change…….. but not overnight and she really doesn’t think that, change or not, its not going to matter so she is seeing the old me in every way.

This morning we talked a little, she said that I haven’t changed, that I still make her feel judged, she still feels like I question her every move, she says, I don’t see any changes in you. (I think I’ve changed a lot)
She said “I’ve been trying to live with this for years and just make sure that everyone was always happy but I never thought about what makes me happy and now I can’t do it anymore.
I told her that changing 43 years of history is very hard to do and that even when I do make changes that it seems like she will always see me as the same old me.
She said, Friday night when you were gone (with S13 at the races) I felt so comfortable just sitting with the kids and doing whatever I wanted to do without worrying about anything else. (I just felt, “totally in control” and “relaxed”).

I asked her do you still love me?
She said no, “I have built up so much resentment against you for the way you’ve made me feel for so long that I just can’t do it anymore.
I said “I just can’t see how the kids are going to be ok with all of this and she said as long as she was happy she would see to it that the kids were happy to.
I said “you know, people have bad childhoods sometimes and they have to go to counseling when they get older to figure out how to work past the hate, could that work for us?”
W, No I don’t think so.
I said “I will never stop loving you, no matter what you say or what you do…your just to important to me, but your happiness is also important to me and I want to be that source of happiness.
No response.

I e-mailed her mom last week and asked if it was ok to hug W or tell her I love you, I said if this was bothering W that I wanted to know so I could stop doing it, I said just a simple yes or no would be fine…no explanation was needed.
I received her reply this morning……No I don’t think that would be a good idea right now.

I leave for work about an hour before she does and this morning I called her from work when she was leaving the house and told her.
“I just wanted to say thank you for being so honest with me this morning, it hurt, but I need to know the truth and to understand a little more about how your feeling.
“ I just wanted you to know that I’m not mad at you and that I won’t do anything stupid, like file for divorce or legal separation or go into depression, I just want you to feel safe to talk to me.
She said ok.

She has always said that she can’t talk to me.

I just don’t have much hope anymore, it seems the things on here (MB) won’t help in my situation, I mean…..don’t get me wrong I’m sure the Lb’s and En’s are good and all but none of this seems to be making a difference for me.

This stuff will help but I think there is no turning back for her, I just don’t know what to do.

I guess I’ll just keep working on it and let her go and hope that she can get some of her love back…she says she won’t be able to get her love for me back so who knows.

She's been real distant (almost mad) towords me lately and its made me a little mad, I know she see's this so I really really need to work on this.

We talked last week about her sisters situation and she gave S some rules that she needs to follow and S said "I'm outta here"
I told sil that I didn't want her to just up and leave but things were getting bad and it was taking its toll on me and W.
Long story short they blame me for everything, sil told my kids your daddy is throwing me out.
I explained to kids (the 2 younger ones) that I didn't even talk to sil, that mom talked to her and she wanted to leave and that i was trying to get her to stay and help her work on things......then Sunday, we all went to the store (we parked out front and W ran in) kids asked again, Why did you make sil leave?
Ohhh I was mad....told W when she got back in "you need to talk to these kids about why sil left and explain to them that it was not my fault.
She said ok ok.
Looking back I should have been more calm but I was infuriated.....I dont want my kids thinking I'm an a/hole.

I said again that I was po'd that I let her come into my house and this is how she repays me.
W said FINE, I said I'll talk to them.


The principals of MB seem to work great for an EA or PA but I still don’t see where they apply for my situation and as you can see from the above, I'm still LBing.
Sorry people.....I'm trying

JS, (still not giving up) but needs help.

(((JS)))

I'm still praying for you. Ok, let me tell you this... I wouldn't give up hope yet. When she finally does get out and alone and by herself, it will be a whole new ballgame.

She will be able to see then what being alone is really like, and if you're used to being married, it ain't no fun! At some point, she needs to feel the "cold cruel world" and not have you as "Daddy" taking care of her, and providing all the money, etc. I'd continue to do what you've been doing as far as no LB's, but sooner or later she needs to feel the full impact of what divorce means.

I would be willing to bet that she will end up changing her mind at that point, and be willing to try. Then it will be up to you to make your changes stick, or ultimately you will lose her as my ex lost me.

Hope this helps. God bless you and your family, especially your kids.

Stuck
Thanks stuck


But she will have the kids and when she don't want them she'll just bring them to me.
Her mom and grandma will help her to.


What if she just dont care?
She said she doesn't love me.

If someone would just tell her to give me a chance and talk to me but she doesn't want to work on anything......she's made up her mind and she's at peace with that.... I would change everything if I knew where to start, at least I would try but she is so resentful.....How do I get her past the resentment?



I just hope I don't damage things any worse before that time...if it ever comes....I don't have much hope.
How did your ex lose you?
Did you leave him?


JS

JSLost, where to from here? Have you considered calling the Harleys? Or a counselor in your area?

Another website that talks to your situtation is divorcebusting.com. Have you checked that out?

Yes, JS, I left him. Several times. Always there were promises to change, promises that it would be better, that the abuse would stop, etc.... and I finally realized it was never going to stop.

But, if one of those times he had made the changes stick...things might have been different.

JS,

I second what Ears has said. Some counseling could be of tremendous help to you. Even if it doesn't save your M it will be of help to you.

Some of what I'm going to say here is going to sound like some chops-bustin so be prepared. My goal is to point out to you where you are falling short on your attempts. You can't save your M by going at it half-hearted. Maybe you are unaware of your behavior and so I think it is necessary to point this out.

I hear you questioning whether or not MB works for you. You make the statement that it doesn't seem to be swaying your W. Yet she continues to state that she feels controlled by you. You continue to admit to LBs. You seem to ignore her when she's trying to tell you exactly how your behavior makes her feel. Instead you make statements about getting mad and feeling like a doormat.

Now don't get me wrong. I'm not saying you should be a doormat or that you aren't being used as a doormat. What I'm saying is that things haven't changed enough for your W for her to start treating you with the respect you deserve. Her behavior isn't helping the situation but neither is yours. AND YOU CAN ONLY CONTROL YOU.

There are no guarantees here on MB. All you can do is continue to be the best you possibly can. That means eliminate those LBs which you admit you haven't. It means validate your W's feelings when she says she feels controlled which I sense you haven't. I think you hear what she's saying but I get the impression you don't think she deserves to feel this way.

Try to entice your W back but don't be a doormat. You want your W back but not at the sake of a healthy R. State your boundaries firmly but respectfully.

In the end it may turn out that your W is too damaged to be moved. And that any attempt by you is going to fall on deaf ears and a blind eye. Still it is important to keep working on yourself so that you become a better person.

I'm sure some examples will help so here goes:



If this conversation went down exactly as you've repeated it then this may be where you're missing your opportunities to change and show change.

When she says she still feels controlled don't make excuses or pass blame. Like here:


First off change can be easy if you really want to change and you really work at it.

In your statement you've let her know (in your mind) that you aren't going to change much or it is going to take a long, long time to change. It also sounds like you are asking to be excused for your behavior. In case you don't know she won't be able to wait a long time. Also if you change, really change, there is NO WAY she will see you as the old you. You just have to REALLY change.

Here's what I would have suggested you say. "I'm sorry that you felt you had to make everyone else happy at the sacrifice of yourself. I hope you didn't think that that was what I wanted you to do. And if I did I am sorry and would like an opportunity to show you I do want you to be happy."



Why did you ask her if she loved you when she said she felt in control and relaxed when you weren't around? What does that have to do with her feeling controlled when you are around. Your switching the convo seems to me a way of avoiding you having to validate her feelings. When she tells you how she feels listen and then repeat back what she says so she knows she's been heard. Don't change the subject by asking an almost non-related question.

And then your statement about the kids ... what's that? I understand your concern for your children and your need to show that concern to your W but to almost use them to KEEP her in the M is a form of control. Your statement could come acrossed as an attempt to make her feel guilty. Don't do that. She's struggling enough. Don't try to lay guilt on her. She knows the kids aren't going to be OK with you two splitting. Still, she needs to be in a healthy R so she can be happy which will spread to her children and she doesn't feel she is in that R right now.



And this is why I think some counseling would be. You go first and maybe after you make some really solid changes you could entice her into joining you.

JS I understand this is hard. I know it is difficult to see the subtle little things we do as making that big of a difference but believe me they do. And if you can become effecient at validating your W's feelings and find ways to work with her to help change her need to feel that way things could change for the better.

Hey, all

Thanks for the thoughts, Mya….fact is, I came here hoping to get my “chops busted”
I get so frustrated because I don’t want to lose her and we hardly ever talk about all of this, I get a little angry and LB. She just catches me off guard and I don’t know what to say and I always end up saying the wrong things.

Counseling is so expensive and we can’t afford anything these days, I’d love to go and talk all of this out…that’s why I’m here.
I really want to change, I really do, I’m just lost, I don’t know what to say.

It’s been quite a few months now and things looked like they were getting a little better (before)…than boom, the walls went up and she just shut me out. I felt like I took 2 steps forward and now I’m 100 steps back.

I’m sure she isn’t going to just wake up happy, but she won’t let me in, not even a little bit and It’s FRUSTRATING.

The other problem is we are never alone when these conversations come up or its right before I’m going to work (like the other day). I didn’t take the time to stop and think, I keep telling myself “verify, validate” but then I screwed it up.

Like (“the kids not being happy”) thing, I really wasn’t trying to make her feel guilty but I can see where she would see it that way, I just hate this, and I really believe if she would talk to someone, other than her mother or grandmother, that we could work through these problems. Why doesn’t she see another alternative.

I know these are all things I want, but man……….. Help me guys…help me change…..I want my family back, happy and healthy, I’ll do anything.

Oh…..there’s always more to the story, but I’m trying to not to be controlling towards her, but its so d*mn hard to just let it go and let god.
The trapped feeling is her not having any money to move out (today) so she feels like she’s stuck there and can’t find a way out.
I just wish that there was another way.

She pulled $20.00 out of her drawer last night to buy dinner and said “I still have my money (her apartment savings) because that house I was looking at is already rented”.
I said “did you know it was rented when you looked at it”?
W “No it just got rented today”…(either they called her or she called them)….That would have been perfect for me to”……. “Oh well, it wasn’t meant to be…that means something better will probably come along”.

She hasn't even thought about her expenses, she can't afford to just sign her name, I mean 1st mo rent last mo rent, gas, electric, water, garbage, groceries, insurance...I mean the list just goes on and on and i can't beleive her mom or grandma wants to pay for all of that.
What is she thinking?

I said "you know the utilities are going to be a lot more for a house than an apartment, what was included in the rent"?
Nothing.
She has no furniture, none.

This is just mind boggleing.
Sorry for the rant, but I just don't get it.

Mya, I’m not giving up and I really do believe in MB, I just keep getting frustrated…..Yeah…I’m scared.

Here’s where I go now.









JS

Exactly. You can't imagine why your wife is even considering moving out when it is going to be so difficult for her to make ends meet. She is not unaware of these difficulties. Nevertheless, she is desperate to move out ASAP. That alone should tell you just how painful she finds it to continue to live in the same house with you.

I know it hurts to read that. Or accept that. I am not suggesting she is correct or justified to feel that way. But that is how she feels today. And our wishing she felt differently is not going to accomplish anything.

Look, there are a few realities in your situation which mirror mine. I have refused to accept or deal with them for years. It has been awful for me and my wife and our marriage and our kids for me to do so. Hopefully you can have the courage and strength to accept the reality that I deny.

Your wife is not going to meet your needs anytime soon. Period. There is NOTHING that you can do that is going to get your needs met anytime soon. Stop searching for the "magic bullet" that is going to change your wife's feelings overnight. No such thing exists.

That leaves you with some choices. You can work hard to change yourself in ways that you think your wife would appreciate. But not with any expectation that she will meet your needs in return. Rather do it because you want to become the person she wants you to be. For yourself.

If that makes you feel like too much of a doormat. Then you can set her free. And yourself free. And go out looking for a woman who will accept you the way you are.

What will not work is for you to refuse to change but expect your wife to stay with you, much less meet your needs.

I don't think it helps to look at this as "what can I do to get her to stay"? There may well be NOTHING you can do to get her to stay. It may be too late for that. Getting her to stay is a dangerous goal, because it is entirely outside your control.

Better to ask yourself "who do I want to be"? Do I want to behave the way my wife wishes I behaved? Will I be happier if I behave that way? Will I be prouder of myself if I behave that way? Setting a goal of behaving in ways that you will be proud of puts the proces entirely WITHIN your control. The fact that it may increase the chances that your wife will stay, or move back in later, is icing on the cake. But yuo don't measure yourself by that. You measure yourself by how you feel about yourself.

I am not suggesting that you MUST change in the ways your wife desires. I am not even suggesting that you will be happier or prouder of yourself if you do. It may be that you will be miserable behaving that way. I don't know you well enough to even have an opinion on that issue.

All I am saying is that you should look at the issue as what you are enthusiastic about doing for yourself. And let your wife worry about what she wants to do for herself. You are going to have continuing contact as relates to your children for a long time to come. If the person you become is someone that is attractive to your wife, there will be plenty of chances for her to notice. Whether or not she moves out.

My sister broke up with her boyfriend 2 weeks before Mrs. Hold and I got married. They both dated various other people for 5 years. Then they met on the street one afternoon. And got back together. Now they are married and have a son and are much more happily married than Mrs. Hold and I who have been married much longer. If you are meant to be with your wife, it will happen. Probably just as likely to end up together if you let her move out as if you try and stop it. So don't see this as "the end" if she moves out. Look at it as merely another chapter. It may be that her moving out and being on her own is the best way for her to see and appreciate everything you bring to the marriage.

Hold,
Everyone is telling me I need to change and I realize this and I want to change.......
And I WILL CHANGE.....
Well, I'll try.............
No I WILL!

Wishy Washy JS

I just feel so all alone, I know I want things to be better, I guess I never really tried before,
I see what all of you are telling me, I just wish someone was standing next to me for a day or two and pointing things out to me as I go.

I just keep rereading my posts, searching for the clues, I know its in there but knowing how to apply them and get my brain straight has been really hard.

Stole this from another post, this is me to a t
This is what W see's, I think.

I know this has been said to me before, but the more I read it the better I understand.

Told Ya I'm slow.
This is the link to EL's post, where I got this.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...811#Post3045926

IF... she'll tell me her feelings........ I've never made it safe for her to do that.
I can validate....... I think.
But how do I work with her?
What ways do I use?
How do I change her need to feel that way?
By making it safe to talk to me maybe.......and giving it time cause its not gonna happen soon?
ahhhh, I get it.
(light bulb flashing)
Yeah, I'm listening, I'm just having trouble Applying.

Hold?
If you have time, could you tell me what you are doing about this?
Why do you refuse to change?
Your telling me to, but your not.

Just curious.

Thanks everyone for bearing with me.
JS

If you look, you will see that I posted on that thread. What I said to EL applies to you as well.


That is something for you to work on that does not require any change on your wife's part. You can be a safe person to talk to even if she says things that are painful for you to hear. Challenging? Yes. But possible.

On the other hand, it may not be worth it to you to listen to these painful things. Maybe you would prefer not to have these conversations with your wife. That is OK. I will not think less of you for not wanting to endure the discomfort. Of course, if you choose that path it is less likely that your wife will change her mind.

But I am not going to sit here and tell you that you should make choices based on the way they affect the odds that your wife will behave a certain way. I urge you to choose behavior based on who YOU want to be.

Do you want to be someone who can listen to painful truths and validate the other person? If so, then you are going to have to sit and listen to some painful truths so that you can learn how to validate them. If acquiring that skill is not worth it to you, I will understand.


Actually, I think that language was the least helpful part of MyAlias' excellent post. You can't change your wife. No one can change anyone else. So don't focus on how you can change her.

Focus on how you can change you. If you change you, she may no longer feel the way she feels today. She may no longer feel she needs to protect herself from you. But you do not change in order to obtain that reaction from her. You change because being different is what you want for yourself.

If you change with the goal of triggering a specific reaction from her, you are being manipulative. Dishonest. You will most likely not be able to maintain the new behavior. And you give control over your life to your wife. None of those is a good idea.

So start making choices based on what you want for yourself. And leave it to your wife to decide whether or not she feels differently after you have changed your behavior.


Why do I refuse to change? Many reasons.

I am immature. I am being spiteful. I fear to change. I am punishing my wife. I am punishing myself. I am punishing my parents. I derive more of a payoff from punishing all of us than I ever got from being successful.

So you see, I have many reasons not to change. Of course, none of them are good reasons. None of them are healthy. It would be best if I could dump these stupid feelings and get to work on improving my life.

Hence my advice to you. Do not be like me. Nothing good will come of being like me. Have the courage to refuse to be like me.

Do not wallow in a pity party. Do not continue to punish your wife for her past mistakes. Do not continue to punish yourself for your past mistakes. Commit yourself to moving forward toward a better future. Commit yourself to being a better you in the future. Commit yourself to insisting that others treat you better in the future.

Aren't you glad you asked? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Here is somethign that Myschae had to say about it on one of my posts recently:

That is what I am doing for you. Recommending a productive action that I probably won't choose to do. That doesn't make my advice less appropriate.

Hold. A confession. This was my statement and I said it incorrectly. I made it sound like he needed to change her.



I need to change the part where I said find ways to work with her to help her change her. I should have said find ways to change yourself to where it makes it easier for her to change her impressions of you and your behavior. Namely this whole control issue.

Sorry about that JS. My bad.

I see you've been looking at EL's thread. I'm guessing his situation and his behaviors mirrors you and your behaviors to a certain extent. It may prove helpful for you to reread much of his thread. I know it's really long but if you can see yourself in EL and really understand what the posters have been trying to tell him maybe a bigger light bulb will go on for you.

Your W has continued to state her feelings of being controlled. These are things you probably can't see. Right now I think listening to your W and letting her get her feelings without you defending your position is key. How you go about getting her to talk is a matter in itself. If you can get her to open up some and if you allow her the opportunity to state her case, speak her mind and get some crap off her chest it may prove helpful in your recovery. If you can learn to understand what she's been trying to say and realize there is much truth to her feelings you can continue to choose different behaviors that free her from feeling controlled.