Hold,Mys......edit.....My A My S Hold,,,I'm so confused forgive me.

Yeah…I read what you said and that’s why I copied that thread instead of the one post, your input was very helpful to me as well.
I should have put (Hold and Mys) on there because I want the other people following my thread to understand what I’m reading and where it came from.
Like you…I want people to learn from me, even if my situation doesn’t work out the way I hope it does.
I’ve read some other posters situations as well, and could see where mistakes were made (like me) and hopefully others will learn (like I am), to do things the correct way.


She told me the other morning that she didn’t love me, I didn’t respond very good (you know, verify/validate) but I didn’t take the news bad either.
The point Is, I want to change. I need to change. My behavior in this marriage hasn’t been good, (insecurities etc.) I just need the right mind set to quit obsessing on what she says and does….(I’m workin on that)
I want to know what she needs, what she feels, and why she’s feeling this way, I know I can’t (fix things) but I can try to change me. I’m not afraid of what she might say…well….maybe a little…hehe….but I want to know.
I’m not afraid of changing.


Oh ok, I refuse to be like Hold. there... Ya happy?

Yes I am, but also disappointed. I do like the fact that at least your honest.
I REALLY want to be a better person, husband and father.



Ok….,I get it . do as I say not as I do.
What your doing isn’t working, so I shouldn’t do that….. gotcha



I get something from everyone's thread, Trouble is, most of the spouses are cheating on one another. I know all about plan a and plan b. I’ve also seen how it works for people…. but [email]d@mnit[/email], I just haven’t seen any signs of an A here.
Should I do a survey? How many say A? how many say no A?


I’m thinking on this one. I don’t quite know what to ask her. Don’t I know what she wants? Freedom,independence

An e-mail I sent to W…. heck yes I stole it but it was exactly the kind of thing I wanted to say to her…I just can’t think this stuff up on my own.
I’m in such a fog.


("W,
Please read this short note.

I've been doing some reflecting on our past and the recent conversation we had and
I'm sorry that you felt you had to make everyone else happy at the sacrifice of yourself. I hope you didn't think that that was what I wanted you to do. And if I did I am sorry and would like an opportunity to show you I do want you to be happy.

I here you when you say that you can't do this anymore. I here you when you say you feel trapped.
I see how things have been and why you felt so controlled and trapped.

I don't want to control you and I'm sorry you feel trapped.
I've been blind to all of this for to long, my eyes are open, and I will change.
All I'm asking for now is that we remain friends through all of this, please.

Love JS")

Thanks again everybody.
JS

Ok,
Lot of response on the other thread “Do I pay For This? Or What?

So many questions. Maybe I should give some more info.

Oh by the way…………..I Paid……………..My reasons, deal with it. Lol J

W loves her van very much but wants to sell it either way…it’s a huge gas hog (full size and V-8) $3:00 per gal.gas, long drive to work etc. etc. etc. She said if it didn’t cost so much to drive she would keep it-----aaaand yes she does want to move out on her own and if we sell it then I can pay her that amount in monthly child support.

She has never been rude or disrespectful towards me and usually is very nice about everything. She doesn’t go out with friends a lot and she’s always at work or at home. Da**ed if I can see where she’s having an ea or pa, she just doesn’t have the time, nothing on her puter,no cell calls,etc. Now, I followed PaulD’s posts to and I was very uneasy about his situation because his W was always gone, or out drinking somewhere and now it looks like this was the problem. JS----trying to keep head out of sand.

I am not trying to help her move out, I told her earlier--- (when she didn’t get the house that was for rent----) that I couldn’t help her because I was for “family” not “separation”. I am not financially supporting her either. She knows I will not lose my house, nor will I refinance it right now…see earlier thread. We will share the kids 50/50 (her words). She knows she can’t afford this right now, she’s still working on this…..I asked her earlier “what do you want to take with you, I mean, I am keeping the house so you should take the contents”. She said “I want to get everything on my own so the kids don’t lose there beds or tv’s from here…I want them to feel at home at both places” . Now this was a while ago so I don’t know if her opinion has changed on this or what, but I will not let my kids suffer and I assure all of you that I will never feel “used” by any of this….This is her stuff to.



Actually, selling the van is the best thing to do right now---see above.
Make ya a smoking deal on it right now…it’s nice.
Trouble is we owe $3,000.00 on it but its worth between $13000.00 and $16000.00. She wants to go to a dealer a.s.a.p. and trade it so that means we lose BIG TIME. I’m still working on this, I think I’ll try and discuss this more with her. Maybe she will give me more time which brings me to the next thing.


Please, please tell me how to get her to realize this…..I just don’t really think anything I have to say will matter, she just flat out has to leave in order to see what its like.
I know why everyone is so confused about this. If she was in an EA or PA this would all be so easy to understand, He!!, even I’d understand, but really, I don’t get it either. I know in my first marriage that I felt the same way she does now and I left and moved on but I didn’t have kids either…I just hope that maybe the kids will be the savior in this M.

We make small talk all the time about work, kids etc. so we do talk. We just don’t talk about M or R.
I’m gonna try and get her to leave with me for 1 or 2 hours this weekend and see if we can hash anything out without interruption from kids etc. I just want to know how she feels and if she has any questions for me. I really don’t think she will do it but I think I should try, shouldn’t I?

Noodle,
as far as her expenses, she will take care of all of that. I will pay her $400.00 per mo. And no more…oh I know other things will come up, things for the kids etc. but I will cross that bridge when I get to it…remember she’s not gone yet.
I want her to have a nice place and a safe car if she leaves because I don’t want my kids living like crap, but she already knows all to well that I feel like they will be better off in there home…my home…
I will not USE my children during this time. (enough said)?


Sorry…Its an EN not an LB……I’m filling an EN.

challengeoflife
Thanks for the words… I tried to look at your posts but most were deleted, looked like you had few bad experiences here but I’d like to here more.


Numb, I hope she sees it this way to, but it’s honestly out of my hands I think.
As far as the vacation thing I’ve tried to do this but she is all for saving money, she’s never been one to spend money, nor did she ever carry any around with her before she got this job.
She did buy me about $40.00 worth of clothes for fathers day from the kids.

Have a good weekend people.
JS

I think you are making a huge mistake and helping your wife leave the marriage comfortably..however..my opinion is free and you are free to disregard it.

Are you saying I should trap her? Beg her to stay?

Help me out here.

I'm not going to get her an apartment, move her in and pay her bills...But, I can't stop her from doing it herself. Can I?
JS

No you can't stop her from doing it herself.

She isn't doing it herself..she is doing it with your help.

If you gave her one dollar as a contribution toward this then you are supporting her in LEAVING not staying.

The issue of feeling trapped..is an internal one.

Perhaps she is trapped..but it is her own choices that have done this and she will need to own that and begin to make choices that free her.

Moving out is an external escapist fantasy which will likely be destructive to your marriage ESPECIALLY if it is made comfortable or sustained by you.

If it were me..I would say..YOU are free to go and...

The children do not go with you.

The household assets do not go with you.

If it comes to divorce a judge will separate who gets what and how often etc.

You are hoping to avoid divorce and an injection of reality couldn't hurt.

What it really means to BE single.

I would suggest that you NOT fall into the trap of a parent/child relationship..which is exactly what you are doing.

It is disrespectfull to her..it is extremely controlling.

Part of not controlling people is that we also do not buffer the consequences of their decisions because WE do not want to have to watch them struggle and suffer, or because we don't want them to be mad at us.

Let me sum it up..if you are opposed to her leaving..don't help her do it in any way.

She is a grown woman..she knows where the door is.

If she wants to leave nothing on earth can prevent her.

If she is merely engaging in a FANTASY of leaving that does not include the full spectrum of consequence..then I suggest you not support that fantasy.

It is entirely possible that she will not be willing to pay the price of admission to single life..that is her decision and in no way controlling behavior on your part.

Wow, This really sounds controlling to me, scarey too.
Isn't that like threatening divorce?
I'm not sure I want to make a threat to her.

Please explain more on this because I'm not sure what you meant.


I'm hoping she changes her mind on leaving, BUT, I guess maybe I have been helping a little bit here and there.

Trouble is, I don't want to upset the apple cart anymore than it already is.
Yeah, I'm scared and unsure of the outcome of all of this so I don't incourage or discourage. I have told her before that she was being a little unrealistic in her thoughts on...how much she can afford...but as another poster suggested earlier, "you cant make that decision for her, and she wants out so bad that look at the lengths she is already going to, to get out".
It has to be all her...she knows where I stand.

Btw, all replies are welcome, I've watched others here get pretty badly beat up, but I also realize that your opinion is, completly in my best interest, just don't be mad if i still do things my way and if I do things your way and they don't work out, I won't blame you either.
JS

My opinion is just precisely that..I read your post from a emotionally disinterested position [ie I can not be manipulated because I have no history with this woman and no care for her feelings]..run it through my personal filter and tell you what I think..I have nothing to gain or lose.

I agree with Noodle for the most part, EXCEPT.... if she does leave, then half the furniture should be hers, and OF COURSE she should get child support. Noodle, JS can't just refuse to support his kids in order to stand on some point he's trying to make. Just because she didn't WORK A JOB doesn't mean she isn't entitled to half the assets acquired during the marriage!

There's a fine line to tread between making her realize the full impact of what she's doing and think for herself as an adult (WHICH I AGREE WITH NOODLE YOU NEED TO DO PRONTO) versus turning in a jerk.

OK..

Here is the thing.

There would be a division of assets..during the divorce proceedings..which is completely different from supporting a woman you are still married to so that she can live separately.

Until that time..not one item should leave the home aside from personal possesions..clothes and toiletries..she can have her toothbrush but not the sofa.

There is no rule that says he needs to divide up his home prior to a divorce and I strongly recommend against it..and even in the event of one..it would be delayed by a period of months..mediations..judges..etc. There is a process.

A process that has not even been initialized.

I would also challenge child support because NO ONE takes my children out of my home on a whim or a lark. To ask me to FUND any part of such a plan is laughable at best.

I would be on the phone with an attorney that minute.

I think that those who say .."well..he'll have to pay for SOME maintainance" are putting the cart before the horse.

He is in no way obligated to fund this ridiculous scheme.

Why not shoot himself in the foot while he is at it?

It is a bad precedent to set from every standpoint including a legal one.

If she wants to be single..go be single. This is called ABANDONMENT of the home, marriage, and children. It is not looked on kindly. Perhaps it will be SHE who pays child support to HIM as obviously he needs to go for primary custody..she is not financially able to support herself much less children..can't furnish a home or provide childcare if she can't even manage to fix her CAR and pay rent at the same time.

She doesn't even have a JOB.

Her entire plan is half baked.. the sooner she is brought into the realm of reality..where the rest of the grownups live [waves from afar to his wife lost in the clouds with the unicorns and rainbows and marshmallow stars] the sooner she will start to be able to make viable decisions..this ain't one of them.

The shortest route from fantasy to reality is having to confront the facts..unpleasant as they are..they are good medicine.

I’m just not ready to go to war over all of this yet. It may come to that…….. (the future)<----Js cannot predict.
I hope it don’t go there.

Aaaaanyway, on to the present.

HAPPY 4TH OF JULY EVERYBODY. Couple days late, yeah I know.
Why am I shouting, you ask?

Good mood lately…….. maybe I’m starting to [get it], I don’t know, So W was off Monday, I had to work, she said she was going to look at cars, instead she stayed at home with the kids. She did leave to go to the bank and open her own checking account. Kids were playing around with an umbrella and I asked, “where did that come from”? “Mommy got it at the bank”….. “Oh ok”……. she said “yeah I opened a new account today”…… “Oh, ok”.

She cleaned the whole house and did all of the laundry etc. and called me at work and said, “can I get S12 a new scooter…(his is broken)… and use the check card?” I said are they on sale? How much are they? She said around $20.00 or more, I said… “yeah that should be alright”…. “ok thanks”…were going to Toys-R-Us then.

When I got home I noticed that the receipt was on the counter in plain view and I said,”did you write this down in the checkbook yet?” No, not yet. The receipt showed $29.95. I just got the checkbook and started to write it in and she said, I only used $20.00 and I put in $10.00 cash so only write down $20.00”. Oh ok.

On to Tuesday…Wife said she didn’t want to go with us to my brothers house, I said “that’s ok, but I want you to know that I’ve never said anything disrespectful about, what you are doing and also told them I understand your feelings completely, as I felt the same way in my 1st marriage years ago.
She said, “I know, but it’s just so hard”……I said, what’s hard about it? You go, you eat, you have a good time at the fireworks and you go home”. I said “what happens between you and I stays between you and I…Its our business and nobody elses. She said “its everyone's business now”…How so, I asked? “Because everyone knows everything about us”. I said, ”to me, It doesn’t matter what anyone knows or anyone thinks about this, oh sure everyone has an opinion, but its just based on how they feel about you or I in the moment…I said, “My sister, brother and parents don’t say any disrespectful things about you…nor would they, They love you very much and think of you as there daughter and they don’t have any questions for you anyhow”.

She said, “The hard part is, I’m trying to distance myself from you and seeing your mom and dad and sister and brother would be like, me starting over again and I don’t think I can handle that.
I said “ok, I’m glad you told me that.

I had told her earlier that if she didn’t want to go that I would take my car and she could have the van in case she changed her mind…later I said I wanted to take the van because I needed to carry toys, blankets,etc.

She said, well, can I take your car, I said of course.
Well, we left and she stayed behind….I must admit that I was angry that she wasn’t going to spend the 4th with her kids and I, but that was [her decision] not mine and I didn’t let her see any anger from me.

The kids and I had a wonderful time, we played baseball, kickball, and S12 was great with his little brother and sister. We went to see the fireworks and got home around 11:00. Put kids to bed and I went to bed, W came home about 10 minutes later and went to bed on the couch. I didn’t get up to talk to her and she didn’t come to talk to me.
S12 even helped me put the little ones to bed when we got home.

Wednesday, she said she had went to her dads house (where her sister is living now) and they cooked out and hung around there (bored) and then went to see fireworks, just her and sister and sisters boyfriend.

Last night I said, well did you enjoy the fireworks or were you just thinking about the kids all night? She said all I did was think about the kids. I said, they were a little bored to at times but seemed to really enjoy themselves all night. I said you should have called us and maybe, because we spent the whole day with my family we could have met up with you and watched the fireworks together, she said yeah I wish I had done that.

They were asleep when she got home and the next morning before she left for work she said she snuck upstairs and peaked in on them before she left because she missed them so much.

I will admit that I was afraid I wouldn't handle things to well in front of my kids and they would wonder what was going on but I just acted as if things were normal and they never once asked about there mom all night.

JS<---> did have a little "minor" breakdown early on but I wasn't around anyone so it was only I that knew about it.

Well, now you guys know to.....

I’m doing good today…we will see how long that lasts.
JS

Thanks for the update JS.

Sounds like you had a disappointing but nonetheless overall good time over the 4th. Your kids will remember days like these for a long time ... if not forever.

Mya,
Actually I'm glad it turned out this way, as strange as that may sound.
I think its good for me to see my possible future every chance I get and, of course, I think she saw what the future could hold for her to...Lets just hope she didn't like it either.

JS

Another disappointing morning,
W said “is it ok if I take the kids Saturday…..It’s our company picnic.
I said sure that’s fine.
The burning in my chest made me start to sweat, I don’t think she noticed.

I know she is slowly trying to distance herself from me and get an idea of what things are going to be like but it still hurts.
I didn’t know what else to say. She knows I would want to go if she asked me. Was she waiting for me to ask?
Wouldn’t it look “needy” if I asked?

I'm not going to bring it up again but now I'm wondering.
What are the kids going to say?

What do I tell them when they ask daddy are you going with us?

This sucks.
JS

I'd be honest with them.

"I don't think I'm being invited to come along.".

You can't protect your W from her behaviors. And try as you may you can't shield everything from your kids. At some point you have to make your W own up to her decisions.

If the kids ask they need to get an answer from their mother. She needs to answer their questions.

Sorry to hear about this JS. I would imagine this is horrible and won't feel any better until you reconcile or split.

Ordered Love Busters yesterday...should be here on Friday.
JS

Everything else is pretty static.

JS [in monotone]

W called on house for rent, hung up, said "I cant afford anything"

Cried, called her mom, cried somemore, wouldn't talk to me about it, I gave her space, kids were getting on her nerves, she left for about 10 minutes, S12 said where you going? I'll be right back in a few minutes...he got mad and said "where are you going? she said stop it...he was riding his scooter in the road by her van....she stopped, they yelled at each other, [he was just being a little sh!! and playing around a little] but she got mad.

JS [regular voice]

I said s12 "what was that all about? s12 said I don't know, whats her problem, I said "I dont know"

He said where is she going? I said "I dont know she didn't say".

Man its hard not to be mad, but I didn't show anything to either one of them.

I finished laundry, little cleaning, washed the kids up for bed.

Asked her later "do you want to talk about it?
W "no"
JS, do you want your bed?
W Yeah, I'm really tired.
JS Goodnight sweetheart.
W goodnight.

Like I said....[situation is static]

JS is glad its close to quittin time here at work, Can't wait to get home to see her and the kids.......
Actually I keep hoping something will happen so we can talk or she will show some sign of something going on etc. but nothing, just sit and talk about my work, her work and other bs.

I'm so ready to verify and validate. and still the day never comes.

PLEASE SOMEONE TELL ME
Is there another spouse on the planet that just want's to leave her H because she has never been on her own or is my wife having an A.

There I said it.

Damn....I'm frustrated....

JS<-----calming back down.....taking my meds.

Yadda Yadda Yadda, blah blah blah.

JS

I have got to stay away from that (general questions II) board.

Js,

My wife just wants her freedom- no A going on. Got married young and right out of her parents house- has never had real independence. I am giving her plenty of space with no marriage talk hoping this will take any pressure off of her.
She is also short with the kids more than before(my s12 notices it the most). Seems we are pretty much in the same boat. Yuck.

Thing is Jtodd...with me anyhow, I just can't see them wanting to leave like this without an Ea or PA going on. Am I just paranoid or what.

I would think it would just take more to be able to do that.

This morning [crying]
My W said she doesn't like talking to me anymore about work and stuff because in the past I never wanted to here about all of that and it just makes her mad that I am so interested now.

She has a lot of anger towards the way I've been all of these years and now I'm starting to change and it just makes her mad.

She said she feels so trapped because she just can't afford to go out on her own and she thinks I'm happy that she can't get out. She said "your probably happy that I can't afford to leave"
I'm not the least bit happy about you not being able to leave.

I told her that this isn't easy on me either and "yes" I want you to stay but I don't want you to stay cause your broke or because of the kids.
What kind of life would that be for me.I said I'm trapped to.
She said "how are you trapped?"
"I want to be able to either work on this or move on with my life and right now I can't do either because your still here so I'm trapped to"

Were just living unhappy right now (both of us)

JS

You know..

The WS state of mind can predate the actions/affair.

After all..affairs don't just *happen*..they don't fall out of trees.

That..restlessness and resentment..the impatience with and desire to flee the children..the desire to be out of bunds..and unbound.

I strongly urge a call to SH..if you have the opportunity to hamstring an affair before it has an OP to adhere to [winks] then it's certainly worth the effort and money..no guarantees of ocurse..her will is as free as yours..but perhaps he could guid you in negating that parent/child dynamic without enabling poor choices and selfish entitled behavior.

Is this really what you want? Do you really want to be able to move on? Think about that. What do you really, really want.

I'm going to assume you don't want to move on. I believe you want your M to work. And with that I think you need to stay on message and not confuse her or whatever that 'move on' statement was supposed to mean.

I think you need to continue to give her the same messages.

"I screwed up in our past."
"I'm working to change and better myself. I want to be a great H."
"I want you and I want our M."
"I'm sorry you feel you have to leave. I think we could be happy together. If I were given a chance I believe I can show you how we'll be happy. I'm trying to show you that now. Hopefully that will help you love me once again."

JS don't forget to validate her feelings when she shares them.

Mrs. JS: I mad that you are interested now.
JS: I know. I've been a fool. I should have never taken you or our M for granted. I promise you I will never be that way again.

Don't forget to send a good message not just the message you think she wants to hear.

Mrs. JS: You're probably happy that I can't afford to leave.
JS: I'm not happy that you aren't happy. I don't feel good about you feeling trapped. I wish you didn't feel like leaving. The fact you can't leave has no impact on my happiness. I do feel fortunate that you are still here so I can show you I'm changing for the better.

Just some thoughts JS.