Here's a copy of a post from another thread I don't think I've included on this thread yet.

The post was orginated Ark^^, who is one of the senior members herein whom my wife and I respect and admire for her knowledge, wisdom and experience. She is an MB pro. If she ever happens by your thread consider yourself blessed and LISTEN intently to anything she has to say.

Anyway, here is a copy of her message which I have taken the liberty of cuting and pasting herein (I assume she doesn't mind):


[color:"blue"] ARK^^ SAYS:

Some of the most painful posts to read here ....is the confusion and turmoil of betrayed spouses....

those post D-day days weeks and sadly months in which so many things are left unanswered, unaddressed and emtpy...

be still.....

In our turmoil and chaos and the gnawing need to fix and address.....bs bring into their hearts more pain and crisis....

be still...

There was once a saying I read somewhere that went something like to really ever understand someone else we must crawl inside of them and feel the gentle beat of their heart....

easier probably for a BS to move a mountain than to grasp and work from that realm....

but be still...
each moment of stillness you can buy grab or gobble is a moment in which you are free from the pain and free from the fear..

fear of doing the wrong thing
fear of saying the wrong thing...

the goal is not marriage rebuilding at any cost...
the goal is guiding yourself to a place of stillness...no matter the outcome....

the anatomy of a WS is that they changed and molded their own thought processes so that they could engage in a affair....

they did this....
they did this....over time and in a way in which they can barely see the reality of this...but they did do it...

be still

it takes time.....

too many posts are from BS with unrealistic EXPECTATIONS which will harm you...

it is unrealistic to think that the thought processes needed to engage in such vile actions....vanishes over night

working through affair issues takes time...gobs and gobs of it...
and if you find yourself standing in a place of demanding change and specified responses, introspection, apologies, and instant change...

be still

for you are causing more grief that you need to burdon....

they did this...and they must undo this...

will they?
the truth is we don't know..
but to ever be a whole person again they darn well better...otherwise they carry their chaos on and on..and in the end no BS needs to burdon that.....

WS, though hard to see when they have used you as a weapon are very very damaged inside.....

they can not face that damage...and since that damage is YOU the BS...they often can not face you..

so they continue to waffle and wallow in the path that brought them to this place...

the way of rationalizing and justifying downright no two ways about it dispicable behavior acts....

force them to the face and process at once..
they will withdrawal
they will deny
they will retaliate

or even worse they will self destruct themselves....

be still....

don't force responses and actions and answers...be still and know that their non-responses , non actions and non answers ARE their answers....and you can hold them accountable to that

be still
and then make your moves....

ARK^^ [/color]

OK...everyone is bumping up the old classic threads today which has given me the ability to capture these classics for you newbies all in one swoop.

Here is another ARK^^ classic. It may have been referred to earlier, either directly or indirectly, but "being the lighthouse" is a common reference on this board and ARK^^'s post/thread is the reason why.

This time I included the whole thread because it does contain some discussion on the topic and you will see others that came before that feel just like you do now.

Here is the link ----> [b] "Be the lighthouse...a post for those feeling tossed in the waves" [/b]

Mr. Wondering

Here's another valuable Post (thread inclusive) that got bumped up today. It's written by Dorry, another venerated MB poster that has since apparently moved on with her life. She herself is a FORMER Wayward Wife who then about 8 months later experienced being a Betrayed Spouse when her husband had a revenge affair (which I strongly suggest all you newbies vigorously defend/protect yourself diligently from becoming...YOU are vulnerable right now and becoming Wayward yourself solves NOTHING...avoid opposite sex relationships and support like the plague).


I'm just a linking madman today.


-----> [b] A Recovery Guide for Wayward Wives [/b]


Mr. Wondering

Hello again;

Don't you find this place odd???

Some of the advice just seems sooooo counterintuitive you may be thinking these people are nuts, or at the very least, fanatics, zealots, whatever.

Well, you are not alone. All of us felt upon arrival that this place seemed a bit odd, perhaps even cult-like.

Well here is a link to a thread wherein many posters shared their initial reactions to MB.

Here's the link ------> [b] What did you think of MB when you first came here? [/b]

So that about covers it. Neither YOU nor your WS are unique.

Mr. Wondering

Shesha

This is a "pinned" thread to the top of the board. It's not to likely that any regular poster is going to see it.

Please Copy and paste the above post. Then head over to the infidelity General Questions Board, click the "post" button and start your own new thread therein. GQII is the most active board in this support forum. You'll get plenty of advice therein.

Mr. Wondering

edited to add: actually it may be good to note that anyone posting on this thread for help will eventually have their posts deleted. Start your own thread for advice no one will see it here until long after you're gone.

Bump for BC...

Bumpers...

Betrayal is terrible. And I agree the extent of the denial of the betrayer is major. During a period of significant disagreements, I found out that my wife was e-mailing a male "friend" regularly, complaining about me behind my back, sharing intimate details of our marriage, encouraging him to call her at any time, and even suggesting that she might use a pay phone as as not to "get into trouble" with me. I found out that there had been meetings with him that were kept totally secret from me. In turn, I was accused of having an affair, of not understanding her "friendship". She told this friend in e-mails that she was not going to let me see her cell phone bills because that was her business.

Subsequently, she began not coming to bed with me...staying up to 2, 3, and 4AM because she was not tired, had insomnia, etc.

The denial comes from the fact that she insists that I am "paranoid".

JJ,

Sorry you find youself needing help on this forum, but welcome anyway.

I would recommend you start your own thread in the GQII (general questions II) section of the forum LINK. You will find that part of the forum receives alot more traffic. As result, gets more attention.

From the sound of it... You are dealing with very typical Emotional affair (EA), and very possibly has or will become a Physical Affair (PA).

When you post your information do not hesitate to make it lenghty, and in depth on the Affair (A), and also what some history, family makeup, what has lead you to this horrible situation.

Again sorry you find yourself needing this type of advice.

-JKT

Thanks very much, still getting to know the rules etc. around here.

If you are still around.

Copy and paste the above post over onto the Infidelity Gen'l Questions II (the most active board on this website).

1. Call the OM's wife. She MAY not know anything about her husbands activities and deserves the truth about her life.

2. Read "Joseph's letter". Redraft it for your situation and give it to your wife. You can't just sweep a FIVE YEAR affair under the rug. Your wife must get to the why it happened and how wrong and destructive it was lest it happen again (or just continue with this joker only much deeper underground).

3. Your wife should NEVER go out of town without you again (and such "rule" should be HER perogative to protect HER marriage to you...not your demand)

4. Perhaps purchase Surviving an Affair and His Needs, Her Needs

5. Attend a marriage Builders Weekend.

6. Read [edited-Longhorn's signature line link] Spying 101 thread as they may still be in secret contact somehow.

7. Don't bring your wife to these forums until you KNOW the affair is over and you are truly recovering. Use these forums for YOUR support for now.
Good luck...hope to see you over on GQII soon.

Mr. Wondering

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

'Taint my "Spying 101" thread, Mr. W., but it is a highly valuable tool.

Soy,

Copy and repost your inquiry over onto the Infidelity - General Questions Board. It's a lot busier and you are sure to get some responses.

Also...read the "Spying 101" thread which you can link to off of Longhorns' signature line. Without proof you really can't expose to OW's husband. They will certainly deny it and make you appear to be insane. Perhaps you only need make a copy of husband's cell phone bill to verify they are having or had an affair.

In the meantime, sit back quietly and collect your data. Research and prepare a potential list of exposure targets and contact informaiton like WH's and OW's bosses, administrators, co-workers, board of directors, mentors, family & friends.

As a medical professional your husband's sense of entitlement is likely ENORMOUS. He will take a long time to admit, acknowledge, internalize his wrongdoing. He's gonna be very foggy for awhile and only YOU can lead him out of this. Perhaps. Either way...you will make it.

Mr. Wondering

p.s. Any kids????

IT all started on my Aniversery when I requested to my wife that I would like a second child. She told me that she thought we needed counseling. I agreed to go but she said that she wanted to go first to see if it was her.

That was on December 1st. Now since then I have requested 3x's to go to a counseler and it was not until I severly pushed the issue that she scheduled it. I did find one myself on referral but she said that that doctor was out of network.

Well, I just found out that she is having an affair. She started seeing him in December, it got physical in January and I found out 2 weeks ago by looking at phone records.

All she says that she thinks we need to go to counseling. But I am not given any evidence that she want it to work. Looking at the phone records I see that she called him after I went to bed on by birthday. I see that on Valentine's day when my daughter and I decorated the house for her, and the wife was home she still called him several times.

Now I want this to work but I don't see any evidence that she wants this to work. When I ask her why she would want it to work she cannot answer

She works with this guy and I asked her to quit but her shrink told her that would be stupid.

What is the point of going to counseling if she has her doubts. And why would she do this when we were suppose to go to counseling to try to work it out?

As you can tell, I am very confused.

Her "counselor" is an idiot (assuming her counselor in fact told her quitting was stupid as Waywards spouses LIE...YOU CAN'T TRUST a single thing she says right now).

You can't WORK on your marriage with a third party interloping. You've got to Plan A her. Expose the affair. Bust up the affair FIRST...then you may have a shot at recovery.

Start your own thread over on General Questions II as this thread is a pinned thread and not a good place for you to seek advice.

Sorry you find yourself in this situation. MB is a solid plan for your situation...I say...give it a shot (but DON'T bring your wife here...yet)

Mr. Wondering

hello - this is an amazing site and already it has helped to know that what I'm feeling is perfectly *normal*. I discovered last FRiday that my husband has been unfaithful. We are not using the word "Affair" because it isn't/wasn't an affair. He knew the female through his work and has known her for many, many years but in the last few weeks when he's had to visit her place of work the friendship took a different twist and they had sex on two separate occasions. When I found out he held his hands up and admitted everything - her name, where she works etc and I have checked all this out and it is true. I have spoken to her personally and she clearly hoped the relationship would go further. I have witnessed him telling her not to contact him again and he has told her he wants to rebuild his relationship with me. I have seen her emailed reply where she has said she will make no more contact. What I have to do now is try to trust him again and be able to put the picture I have of them together out of my mind. Am I asking too much to be able to do that? He has never been unfaithful before and is unable to give me a proper explanation to the "why did you do it" question and his reply to "how did you feel after you'd done it" was "dirty". If he felt dirty, why did he go back for seconds? Should I keep picking away at this question or should I try to put it behind me and move forward?

Jigsaw,

We don't really monitor this thread. It's pinned to the top of the board and really nobody takes a second look at it. It's just there...all the time.

Thus, you really need to read through the entire thread and notice that we have recommended you copy and paste your above post over on the GQII board where there is substantially more activity.

Sorry to see you here...it most definitely WAS an physical affair and recovery involves a lot more than just "putting it behind you and moving forward". To me...that's just begging for it to happen again. You and your marriage are worth more than that I'm sure.

Further...you don't HAVE to trust him. We trust people that are trustworthy. Your husband has PROVEN he is not. In the future, through actions matching words and when you find yourself in a passionate recovered marriage you can trust him again. But blind trust is NOT love. It is him that must go the extra mile to make you certain of his actions. Keep inspecting what you expect. You should have FULL access to everything. There are no secrets in marriage.

Please continue posting...you appear to be in a bit of shock right now and vulnerable. It's early in this process for you. You don't have to figure this all out in a week. Most marriages recover in your situation, over time; but, regardless...YOU WILL MAKE IT.

Mr. Wondering

I don't know if Mr. W still looks at these posts, but THANK YOU! My wh's lover was a younger woman and I did feel threatened and so disrepected by how easily I was replaced by her. She was in high school when we married! You're acknowledgement that she wasn't "better" helped so much because your description of what she is and is not was right on and did wonders for my self esteem!

Jigsaw, yes it was an affair. It was adultery. He formed an inappropriate, physical and emotional relationship with another woman. If you try to just "get over it," it will haunt you the rest of your marriage and perhaps your life. Go over to General Questions II (GQII) and start a thread there, okay? This forum has very few viewers and you're going to need the assistance of some well schooled MB veterans to help you and your wayward husband recover from this.

I am not newly betrayed, been almost 2 yrs and I still have trouble. I am new to this, not read plan A and B but in your post about moving out, this is what caused or I guess caused the infidelity, I moved out to separate due to drinking and hoped that would be a wake up call and he would miss me, instead he got angry and started seeing someone else, once I found out, he quit and said it meant nothing and we have reconciled but I still cannot deal with it at times. I guess this is a totally different deal, he says the leaving him caused the affair (2 mos long, sex twice) and the drinking. He is very remorseful and things would be great if I could let go.