I can't believe this... I'm on the verge of an (another) affair of my own

"I am poised to tear another hole in my already wounded soul"

...and I just can't stop myself

"I'm going to call my parents ... and tell them, they will be so proud of me. Mom, you did a really BAD job raising me ! I have no self control and no self respect! Sorry Mom, you get an "F" for parenting." [/i]

I still believe in my marriage

"I believe in marriage so much, that I want to soil mine in the worst way possible! "

I still love and want and desire my wife

... "and yet, I don't mind killing off a slice of myself for some poontang ... even though I love my wife..."

I still believe that we will survive and revive our relationship and marriage....

"But I want to screw another woman ... no matter how much damage it may cause"

I know very clearly the consequences of an affair

" I just don't give a damn"

I know the damage

"but I just don't give a damn"

I know the fog

"I've inhaled the fog"

I know what I need to do to prevent/stop it...but I'm not doing it

"because I've decided to destroy myself instead of showing some courage & strength"



I have friends, family...but what my wife provided for me has been missing from my life for six or seven months...I'm starving here...

"and I am willing to injest poison ... and suffer permanent intestinal scarring...oh well"



Please forcefully confine me to a cell...and a cell different from the emotional one I have been living in

"I am turning myself into someone I hate ... stop me !!!!

I am also willing to drag another human being into my world of insecurity & pain & use her body like it was Vicoden, so I can get some pain relief!!!!"

Everyone, thank you. That was all I needed. I talked to a few friends and they either didn't know what to say or one basically supported another affair... I just needed some straight talking, thank you, thank you, thank you. Accountability does wonders, I'm glad I posted.

Now, so I don't screw up this part, tell me what is wrong with this NC letter:

I've put some thought into this, and I will have to end all contact with you for the good of my marriage. No phone calls, no e-mail, no running into each other at parties or whatever. Please respect this decision.

Good luck in moving and have a nice life.

I have decided I will end all contact with you in order to protect my marriage. No phone calls, no e-mail, no running into each other at parties or whatever. If I should see you anywhere I will leave immediately. Please do not reply. I love my wife and intend to rebuild my marriage.

Goodbye.

-------------------------------------------

I think this says it all. Who cares if she has a nice life or a good move. She was ready to help you destroy your marriage!!! Treat her like the poison she is, you don't write gentle or less than direct letters to poison. You keep away from it - do not encourage it to think you are nice, and don't ask it not to be poison. you keep away. Make a filter tonight to send any mail from her immediately into the trash, report it as spam and delete it.

My husband's boss, family and friends told him they just wanted him to be happy. Duh!!!! Well the only ones he sees now are his parents, and that is with me present. So your friends are like them, callous people of the world who don't value marriage, drop them.

Linda

Pepperband,

Please come and help here. This is a marriagebuilders link but I don't know how to do it on here as others do. I usually computer/net savvy Maybe someone will clue me in - lol


http://enigo.com/l?eA

We need some support, I do not have your experience at giving advice, I think I am doing OK but would like some back up and "supervision".

Linda

Sorry for hijecking your thread for a moment but I can't email or private message pepperband.

It has been sent.

In an odd way this close call is comforting since I have seen the fog again, and know better where her mind is at. It is also disquieting since I know even better that she won't be talked out of it or just wake up randomly.

I wasn't going to give her the gifts after the Plan B letter but with them...still no good? Hmm...well, fine, I can deal with that.

Also, I called her tonight--no answer, no surprise--and left a message saying, "I just wanted to tell you I love you...bye." I imagine it would be a bad idea to do that every night while she is gone, but every other day? Any thoughts?

SP,

Your hijacking is justified and understandable=)

Give her the gifts when she gets back and tell her they are coming in your phone calls. Call her each day as you would if all was well. Remember you are plan Aing, which is act as loving as you can - whatever she does. the rest is below. Do you need plan A info again? I think I will post it so you can print it out and keep to the principles until the moment plan B goes into operation.


AND plan B has no gifts in it. It has nothing in it - all she gets in plan B is the OM.

Linda

The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A from Pepperband

The carrot of Plan A


Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.



The stick of Plan A


Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financial security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Plan A is both a *carrot* and a *stick*.

Now, the timing of when I call. I'm thinking it would be best to call at a time when the retreat is done for the day and she is likely to be trying to spend time with him...or should I avoid this because of a possible backfire?

I had read something on here a while ago--don't ask me to find it now!--that suggested avoiding be romantic, saying 'I love you', etc. when the WS refuses to hear it. It is also what I took SAA to mean, here is the relevant passage (pg76-77)

"Plan A was simple to understand but difficult to implement. Jon was to avoid doing anything that would upset Sue. .... The only thing he could do that might upset her was ask her questions about her compliance with the conditions of separation she had agreed to follow. .... During those six months, he would try to avoid doing anything that would upset Sue. At the same time, if she would let him, he would try to meet her emotional needs. .... I still wanted him to offer to meet her needs anyway, just in case she decided to give him another chance."

Mainly the part about fulfilling needs if she allows it. Just want to make sure I'm doing everything as perfect as possible after all! None the less, I would love to tell her I love her everyday while she is out continuing her affair, and give her the gifts, even if she does get upset about me 'doing things' for her.

Call when she is there and tell her you called to tell her you love her and miss her. The needs she wouldn't let Jon do was to confide in him, provide sex etc.

It is required that you do things to make it difficult for the affair.

Telling her you love her, understyand how torn she must feel and are ready to forgive her is making it difficult for the affair. That is what you should be telling her. It will drive him mad and if it puts her in a bad mood when she is with him, so much the better.

Ignore her response, unless she clearly says stop calling me and don't tell me you love me.

If she complains generally, "Say I am sorry you do not like that I still love you and wish to be able to mend our marriage".

In SAA Jon is never told not to tell her he loves her. He is encouraged to call her and meet her ENs if she will allow it. Look up all the ENs and see how many you cannot meet when she is in the FOG and with the other man. This is not meeting an EN only.

Look at the stick and see how this could be part of the stick as well.


Linda

Okay, so here is the plan at the moment.

Call her tonight like three hours after the retreat has ended for the day; tell her, simply, "I just called to tell you that I love you and that I miss you. Also, I understand how torn you must feel about this, and am ready to forgive you. Oh, and I got you a few gifts that I look forward to giving you and am sure that you will love."

If she answers (I expect it to go to her voice mail) and complains I will say, "I'm sorry you feel that way; I'm sorry that you don't like that I still love you dearly and hope to be able to recover our marriage, but thats the way it is." If she says specificaly, "stop calling me" then I will say, "Alright, well, I miss you and look forward to seeing you again when you come back." And not call her again while she is away. Right?

Wow, I wish I hadn't misunderstood some of the things I had read. In the past I would tell her I love her quite a bit--she had at times complained and told me to stop--and would get her random gifts and surprises, which also upset her. I would also make or offer breakfast, and again she would get upset. But I always got the feeling that she got upset because she likes what I am/was doing...should I resume these things, at least for the short time before Plan B? If she says 'don't do X' should I stop?

I called and...left a message. I called just about the same time last night. Tomorrow I think I will call later since having been to the retreats, I know they have get-togethers/socials after the events of the day, and they can carry on for quite a few hours.

The woman I sent the NC letter to just gave me a call...no I didn't answer. I'm not sure if she got the message yet though. Whatever, doesn't matter, I said NC and I meant NC.

Well done, now block her number.

Also do the nice things to WS, unless she says stop. Let her remember you being nice and her rejecting you. When OM puts you down she has to say "No he remained sweet until I left."

Or at least it will be in her memory and mess with her self fog speak.

The answer to "Why do you keep doing this? is, "Because you are my wife, I want to take care of you and make your life easier as long as I can."

Or something similar that feels good to you.

Well done.

Linda

I'm going to call tonight again, but I'm not sure if I should just leave it at 'I love and miss you' or if should say the same things I said last night. Of course, if she actually answers then there is no dilemma.

I completely understand what you said, and agree, just one thing concerns me: even though I have remained nice, it seems that her self fog speak utilizes how I have challenged the affair to make me into a jerk and whatever else. Not a huge deal, just a little concern.

Ignore it, we do not allow their fog to make us believe it or change our MB ways.

Best response is, "I am sorry me wanting our marriage to heal is making you think I am a jerk. Sadly if you were not in A this would not be an issue."

Yes. Leave off gift thing on any messages for a few times. then try "I have had fun wrapping your gifts, can't wait for you to open them".

Linda

Last night I also said "I understand how torn you must feel over all of this, but am ready to forgive you." I would assume leave that off, at least for a few messages.

Just called...an hour later than I had the last two nights...again it went to voicemail. I said, "Hello beautiful, just wanted to call and let you know that I miss and love you, and look forward to when you come back. Also a coworker of mine was over last night, I think I told you about him, not sure. Anyhow, I wanted you to know that he was really impressed with your artistic abilities. I look forward to your return, love you, bye."

She is coming back Wed night, and I know the time because I have my sources...which she doesn't know about. Should I just arrive to pick her up whether or not she asks me to? Should I ask her--presumably in a message, sigh--if she wants me to pick her up and only do it if she says yes?

She had our roommate take her to the airport and didn't even ask me...wise of her since I would have refused anyhow. But picking her up I see no problem with. I asked my roommate if WW was even honest about why she was going out of town, i.e. partly for the retreat but also to continue the A? He tried to defend her and ran with what she told him, i.e. retreat, meet new people, get out of our town for a bit, etc. I care little that he believes her, I am just glad he didn't give her a ride fully knowing she was going to continue the affair. He is more than a bit clueless about everything anyhow, and WAY too passive to ever say or do anything that could even potentially upset someone, no matter how right he would be.

Some other things I have been thinking about:
1) the gifts; 2) her financial hardship and rent; 3) how to divide our things.

As for the gifts, I ordered them over the Internet so they won't be arriving at the same time, and they probably won't all be here by when she returns this Wed night. My brother IL suggested I don't give them all to her at once since it would be 'too much,' but I think it would be best to wait till they all arive and give them to her all at the same time with a rose or roses, as well as a simple romantic note/poem. Any thoughts?

Financially she is having a very hard time moving out (her going out of town wasn't exactly sane!), and when we were discussing her part of rent/bills she tried to tell me she can't pay this or that at the moment since she has to save up money to move out. I said calmly, "That is not my problem, I am not forcing you to move out. You need to pay this first, especially since it was due more than two weeks ago." (Right now we have separate bank accounts, even though I am the primary name on both and she is on both as well).

She ended up paying me MOST, but not all, of what she owes. Should I take a hard line and tell her that she needs to be paid up or move out by such and such a date? Right now she is planning on moving out on Aug 15th (the date changes occasionally, and I expect her to ask for it to be pushed back even further...but we'll see). Maybe set the date as the first if she doesn't pay up since she will then be one month behind? I feel bad about doing that though since I have been more lienient with roommates who were having a hard time...its fair, but not because of how I would normally operate with these sorts of things.

Finally, how should I deal with divvying up our thins? Of course personal things and things she had prior to the marriage are hers, done. But what about things we got as a couple? What about all the things her family has handed down to us? What about our bed that her mom paid more than half of when she first moved in with me? WW will claim that everything from her family was 'for her,' I say it was for us...should I just ask the ILs? If they say 'us' then what? If they say 'her' then I'll just let her have 'em. ? Then there are a few things that we and our roommate all chipped in for...how should that be divided? Should I 'buy' them back? Or maybe insist either 1) I keep them in our HOME with no reimbursement, or 2) she can take them if she wants to pay my roommate and I the other 2/3rds?

Just trying to get things figured out before the last minute!

I know I said I would post the Plan B letter this week, but I haven't had a chance--or the mindset--to edit the first draft yet. Promise: whether or not I get to read it over I will post it by the 26th.

Thanks in advance.

Did you post that you gave her your plan B letter and now you are calling her and giving her gifts?

L.

No no no...I haven't given her the Plan B letter yet--this is still Plan A. The letter is still in progress and will be given to her some time in August. Presumably after she moves out since she is planning on moving out in August. I do expect her to keep pushing the date of her moving out back, not indefinitely, but at least for a little bit.

Right now she is away at a retreat (which ended today actually) and spending time in the city the retreat was in for three days extra with OM. Hence why I am calling her nightly.

Regardless, when I sent her an e-mail with a breakdown of what she owes and why--since she was putting up some resistance to paying--I included a note that said, among other things, basically, "You don't have to move out, we can continue to live together...forever. All you would have to do is end the A and work with me to recover our marriage."

Other things were said (I posted it about a week ago, but could give an exact copy now if you desired). Her only response was, "Don't give me crap about moving out." I simply said I wasn't and just letting her know she didn't have to. There was a little back and forth, but it was basically her and I repeating ourselves.

As long as you are in plan A, give her the gifts as you wish. and also go and pick her up if you can do it instead of someone else. Two of you at the airport will be scene - not nice to make a scene.

As for the house stuff don't even think of it. You are staying there and she is coming home eventually. Let her deal with it when you are in plan B and she cannot speak to you directly and the money is in separate accounts. I will be your email go between if you friends are too soft to do it, without trying to be on her side. all they have to do is forward her email requests to you. Don't you have anyone in your corner?

Right now keep on filling the needs you can. Being honest about the A affecting her and do not give her any way to make it easier to have the affair or move out. If she complains tell her again. "You do not have to move out".

"I am not helping you so you can move out. anything else I am here"

Linda

Why is she moving out on her schedule? Nothing irks a WS more is when the BS demands things like moving out on the BS schedule. Then even if the WS says they want to move out, sometimes they supposedly change their minds. Why? Because it's not according to their schedule So it's not so much as what as who says it.

Know this and use this info wisely.

L.