He already did this one once, this is his schedule, or it was - I think she was going in September at one point - it keeps changing

Linda

As for picking her up. Should I just do it without her knowing/expecting it? Or ask her?

I'm planning on sending the Plan B letter within a week--most likely the day--of her moving out, and she may want to begin separating things before then. For my part I won't bring it up at all, that will be up to her.

I have people on my side, a few in my corner, but not many who wouldn't be too soft. Hmm...maybe I have someone, not sure though. So, what sort of person makes the best go between? There are enough people who would simply transmit messages between us if that is what you are getting at.

As for separating the accounts, etc. etc. I am planning to tell her I am going to do it only in the Plan B letter, but give her one week.

A while ago she said July and I told her June...it has become August. I'm thinking that if she tries to push the date beyond Aug 15th I'll tell her no, thats the date, and that she can decide not to move out at all if only she ends the affair and begins to work with me to recover our marriage. Should I also insist on her moving out the 1st if she doesn't pay the rest of her share before then? Hmm...that sounds a bit heavy handed to me.

My gut tells me that things are beginning to crumble between her and OM, that reality seeps through once in a while although only momentarily, and that we will save this marriage. Regardless though, I know it won't be soon.

Every night I call I have a fantasy play through my head where she answers in tears because OM really upset her and she is sick of him and wants to save our marriage...I don't expect it, but its nice to think about. I also have a nightmare run through my mind of her answering the phone and putting it on speaker phone so I can hear her and OM together, if you get my drift. My wife would never do anything that cruel to anyone, especially me...but with who the A has turned her into...I fear it, although I doubt it.

Right now...I just need to share how incredible my wife is, and how much I love her. I may think it and feel it all the time, but sharing it with others means a lot to me.

For a month, after I got my promotion and was in training, everything was easier and I even feared that my love was slipping...I simply had no time to even feel that love. But, unfortunately, I got into an accident last Monday (no one hurt, thankfully), and since I was in training I was demoted. Thankfully, my manager and my supervisors all wanted me to stay cause they knew I would be great in that position, and I'll be able to go back in six months.

Since then though, I've had more than enough time to feel and to think...I'm actually amazed at how much I love her even with how she has been the past few months.

As you know, she is out of town, and so for the first time in I a very long time I slept in our bed. I was almost home again; I slept so well; and the whole time I could just FEEL her in my arms. The WW, but not my wife, would be terribly upset if she found out, but I don't care.

Then today I went through our bedroom just looking. Mainly for signs of hope and encouragement, but also for any information on where she is at. She has kept most of the letters I have written--some I just can't find, so I don't know--there are a bunch of photos of me that she kept (we never owned a non-digital camara, so there are few hard photos of us), including one of me when I was maybe 8 with one of the three puppies I had as a kid. She also has one of her and I together shortly after we were married, and this one is in a separate location from all the other photos she has kept, of me or otherwise. I keep mental tabs on this sort of thing, and she has rearranged the basket it is in...and the photo remains. Unfortunately, so does a CD and a note from OM (where he does little more than admit that 'part of the attraction' is the thrill because he knows it is wrong--in short, even though I was 'okay' with an 'open marriage' at that point, that is NOT the reason why he got involved with my wife and he would've done it anyway--creep).

I also found some photos of her that I think her grandmother took--I don't remember who exactly though. Many are sexy, but classy at the same time. I can't get over how beautiful she is. You think after three and a half years you would just become accustomed to another person's face and body, but no, it still amazes me how beautiful she is.

I also think about how intelligent she is and how well we meshed from the start. Never before and never since have I been able to speak to someone as I spoke to her. I'm a bit of a bookworm and a nerd, and so I had grown accustomed to choosing words that others wouldn't give me a blank stare for. Yet, with her, I could speak just as I thought...none of those words I picked up from reading were alien to her at all, even though English is her second language.

If only I had found and learned MB principles before all of this... it doesn't matter though, I didn't, and I can't change the past. Besides, this marriage ain't over, and we will be together forever.

Thats all for now=) Thanks to everyone for there to be a space where I can just ramble, and where at least one or two people will even be interested in reading this!

As soon as the affair dies...as soon as the affair dies...my wife will begin to be resurrected, I have no doubt.

Did this make ya more determined to rebuild this marriage? I used to do it all the time in the early days. But not now.

Linda

Yes it does, its kind of a refresher to clear up my mind.

Why wait and why gamble with your finances? Do you want t/b burned and left destitude? That is what a WS is willing t/d to the BS and family.

Get prepared here. Don't leave anything to chance. If she is a WS, there is no chance. If you want to see your real W again, you best get the WS out of your life and home. ASAP. NO more chances.

L.

Orchid,

Your response kind of confused me. Which part are you refering to exactly? With taking her off the account ther is no danger involved no matter when I do it since the one she is using has only her money in it, even though both our names are on it. By no more chances I assume you mean she is out by the 15th, period, right? And I assume that I should also tell her to be out by the first.

As with taking no chances...I'm still confused about how I should deal with how to split the things when she moves out. Perhaps I should just tell her, "Any of your personal belongings or things that you had before our marriage, take; everything else stays. If you want to walk away from this marriage and make a 'fresh' start, then do so." ?

I still want to pick her up from the airport, and I'm thinking I'll tell her I'll be there to pick her up and then just speak to whoever she had planned to have pick her up (probably our roommate). If she calls and specifically tells me not to, then I won't. Good?

As I am looking for a go-between, should it just be someone who can relay messages exactly, and nothing more? Or is there more to it?

Thanks.

Yes,

Tell them only those messages that say - I would like to come back and am willing to get rid of the OM. Send the others back and tell her you do not want to see them. If she decides on divorce her lawyer can mail you. In case of Life and death emergency your friend of course would let you know.

You do not want anyone to have a chat or let her cry on their shoulder. They do not know MB and so can mess up your plan B, kindly teling her what they think you mean or want.


Linda

S&W,

Step back and figure out what type of message u r sending her.

She claims to want to move out....do you think as a WS she wants you to go pick her up at the airport? IMHO, you will try and she will shoot you down. I hope not but that's my gut if she is a WS.

Now if you are going t/d a good plan B, execute it when u r ready not wait for her. Remember the WS doesn't want t/d anything you want t/d even if you are agreeing with her.

I mentioned to secure your finances because most A's stem from selfish acts and that often uses family funds to fuel the A.

If she has her own $$ and you have yours then just make sure she isn't pulling the rug out from under you.

When the WS moved out of our house, he was only allowed to take his clothes and things NOT related to the family or M. That meant after 10 years he took some clothes, 1 dresser, his laptop, 1 bookcase and some tools. He had to go buy his towels, bedding, pillow, blanket, lamp, etc to furnish his rented room. He looked like a man who had nothing.....I let him leave that way because up until then, he wanted me to give him all those things. I gave him the dresser and 1 bookcase. But I refused to give him kitchen, bedding and bath accessories. He even asked to borrow the vaccuum cleaner which I refused. Imagine sending your cleaning tools to an unknown location (he kept his rented room location secret from us). So I refused to let our things go to a strange place. When he finally came home, his pillow and stuff became sutffing material and not allowed in the house. I reminded him that us allowing him back in was a bigger deal.....for him and the stuff enabling the A that he bought outside the family budget was not welcomed in our home. Sounds petty but it was a trigger for me.

L.

Thanks for the feedback on who I need for a go-between. I think I have someone.

No, I don't think she wants me to pick her up, but I did let her know I would be there. I talked to my BIL since he was going to pick her up, and he is hesitant about letting me do it since he expects her to give him crap for it... but I'll give her another call tomorrow, talk to him, and figure it out from there.

I found out that the OM is planning on moving here on Aug 15th. So this has just strengthened my decision to tell her to move out by the first. I also found out, as a side-note, that she was acting just a little paranoid at the retreat. I was, I admit, a bit late in sending the exposure letters for the retreat, but none the less...folks who know will talk to him or her, and she was paranoid while at the retreat. Good.

I can't believe he is stupid enough to move here, but on the plus side, one of the folks I just exposed to knows all three of us and is actually close to OM, and she told me she is going to have a nice long chat with him about all of this.

With him moving here I know I need to expose to anyone and everyone, even just acquantances that we barely know so as to make it as hard as possible for him to adjust to a new city. Anything else I should do? Although I hate the fact that he is moving here, I am also kind of glad...it will give him a chance to show just how much of a moron he is to my WW. Especially since she has already complained about him and I know she prefers him being across the country; ha! he even told someone that my WW "keeps him in line." She never did such a thing with me, she never needed to.

Anyhow, I like that idea, I will only let her take her personal belongings and things not related to our marriage. To prep for this I will contact her mom and aunt--who have donated a lot of things to us--to be clear if they gave it to us for 'us' or for 'her'.

I have to say though, even though my WW is, obviously, wayward, she is acting differently than many other WS's I've read about on this list. But only in one respect: she doesn't think that OM is THE MAN she has been looking for, and actually keeps him at a distance (this based on what I've observed, what she has told me, AND what those at the retreat told me). She sees him as a 'boyfriend' in the lightest sense of the word and doesn't intend on a serious relationship with him. Odd, I know. But it gives me hope that their affair will crumble even faster...I could be wrong, and I am prepared for this.

Just need to share this.

I gave her a call again just now--the only time since she has been gone that I've called more than once in a day--and...she answered!

Amazingly, her voice wasn't angry or anything like it, I asked how she was, she said 'fine,' and then she said for me not to pick her up since her brother was going to, "so don't worry about it." I asked, "alright, but, are you sure?" "Yes. I'll see you tomorrow."

I'm amazed because of a number of reasons: she answered; wasn't ticked off at me; said "I'll see you tomorrow;" and she has been obviously listening to the messages I have left and has not told me to stop calling.

I know I shouldn't read much into this, but even though I am, I am prepared for the worst and still sticking to my plans.

I can sleep just a tad bit better tonight; even if it is illusional, I can sleep. I only wish I had said, "I love you" before hanging up, but that is just a minor detail I can get over. Besides, I'm calling her tomorrow before she departs.

WW is acting differently from other WS? Really - she is telling lies and destroying her marriage for another man. That she says or has convinced you it is not serious - not the love of her life - are you kidding me? How serious is it to destroy your marriage?

My feeling is that your problems are even worse if she is wiling to do all this destructuon for someone who is little to her, just a boyfriend.

Please wake up and smell the coffee. She is committing adultery with someone she pretends not to car for vey much. There are lots of WS on here that did that, lots of them. It hurts just as much doesn't it? Do you think it would hurt less if it wasn't just a boyfriend?

Get your Plan B ready and tell her OUT. Allow her to take anything you wish, but the minute she is moved out send the plan B letter and cut her off.

Silence - let him fill her ENs. Let them try to keep things going without you supporting her.

Oh and by the way, WS lie all the time - she could think he is the second messiah for all you know.

Linda

Of course, it is adultry either which way and hurts just as much either way, just me musing.

As promised, I will be posting my Plan B draft letter shortly.

Very rough draft of Plan B letter. Any input would be nice. I figured might as well get input on this and then work on the first draft. Thanks in advance.

----------------

My love,

It cannot be said enough: I love you more than you probably, at the moment, know. You are the most important person in my life, and meeting you has remained the most important thing ever to occur in my life.

I intend to remain married to you for the rest of our lives. You are the one for me, and I will not give up that easily on you, on us. I meant every word of our vows, and I plan to keep my promises. With everything that has gone on, with how we met, and everything considered, we have come very far.

Of course, our marriage wasn’t perfect otherwise an affair never would have been appealing to either one of us. But that doesn’t mean you and I as a couple are inherently flawed. I have learned and come to acknowledge what I did to cause a rift between us. For the most part—and this is no excuse—I was afraid of myself, of my love for you…of being completely honest with myself. Regardless of that though, I recognize that I didn’t give you enough affection, conversation beyond the political and philosophical, enough passion, attention, time. All the same, you continued to love me, even if at times you felt it slipping, and you continued to love me because even though I was holding, I was doing a lot of things right.

Recognizing shortcomings is only half of it though, and thus I have changed. Both for you and for myself, since I have to be happy with any changes I make anyhow. I’m in love with you not because I’m your slave, but because we are equals and we should always make each other happy at the same time.

I am a thousand-times more in-touch with my own feelings, emotions, and desires. It has brought out the romance and passion I always knew dwelled within. I won’t have to try to be romantic or passionate with/towards you, instead I simply am and can fully express it now; and it feels good. Beyond that though, many positive changes have occurred. I have grown closer to my family, our family, both sides…although I don’t see your side of the family as much as I would like. I am cleaner and more organized than ever before, and I am really proud of that. I’m an even better worker. I am able to discuss and converse more freely about so much more. I also find that I have simply matured and grown up a LOT in the past few months.

I look forward to being able to show you the new me, who remains the old me all the same.

I intend, and look forward, to working with you so that we can rebuild our marriage, and make it into something infinitely better. There are no prescriptions or recipes to follow, instead we need to figure each other out, what each of us need, how best to make each other happy, how to do things that please both of us and never just you or I. We can, I have no doubt, build a marriage so happy and so powerful that we will both be completely fulfilled by each other.

Sadly though, your affair and the way you have been acting because of it has begun to erode my love for you, and my number one priority is saving and improving this marriage, which means I must retain my love for you. In order to do this, I must separate myself from your presence.

This means that we cannot have any contact for any reason. If there is something that you need to tell me or I need to tell you, XXXXX has agreed to be an intermediary between us. This lack of contact will include no communication in any way, not seeing each other, no shared bills or other financial items.

I of course look forward to being with you again, but in order for that to happen you must end the affair and write a letter to Ben informing him that you will never contact him again, and ask the same of him. As soon as you have decided to do this let XXXX know, or even find a way to contact me personally and let me know…from there we can end the affair and begin saving, recovering, our marriage.

But in the meantime, there are no exceptions to this total separation. Either the affair is over and we begin to recover, or nothing.

I will miss you desperately, but at least the affair will no longer be able to eat away at my love for you; a love I truly cherish. I do and always will love you and intend for us to be very happily together for the rest of our lives.

Too long. No demands, just statements. You can let her know that when (not if), when she wants to discuss coming back to the 'family' you maybe able to listen. Do not guarantee. That's why it is best NOT to make return demands. Be firm. Let her know you have identified your boundaries for her return but do NOT tell her what they are....not yet.

This letter is to let her know that her actions require your family take protective action and plan B is the current method.

Do NOT give her all info. The way she will ask for the info c/b used as your gauge of how sincere she is to return.

Be careful and take care,
L.

Thanks for the suggestions, I'll have another draft up shortly.

In the meantime, I just wanted to share.

I can't say exactly why, but today was really rough...I have been on the verge of crying all day, even at work, and can't place it.

As for the WW, she only came back into town last night, but she has been acting very curious, in the good sense. She has been more pleasant, considerate, has been wearing a ring (even if not her wedding ring) on her wedding-ring finger, and hasn't said anything negative about my messages or my saying 'I love you.'

All the same, I know she is still miles (if not lightyears!) away from where we should be as a couple, but I think the pressure at the retreat, her moving out soon, him moving to our town soon, and my messages had some kind of an affect. SP, I think you were right in saying this is the beginning...the beginning of the affair breaking down. Thus also, there is a very long road ahead.

Regardless though, I know Plan B will still be necessary, so don't think I'm getting delusional here=) A miracle would be very nice...but it would be just that, a miracle.

S&W,

Good to see she returned and you are not being raked over the coals but expect t/b. With that said, just keep working on shoring up your letter and work on your boundaries.

The WS will do whatever they will do and not be happy if they see you plugging along. With that said....there's your tool of support. Keep pluggin' along. Whistle while u work...it drives 'em nutz. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

L.

Try this as a guide,

Use as few words as you can and remember it is not about anything other than letting her know
why you are doing this,
how you are doing this,
how long you are doing this
there is aa way out for her if she wishes to take it,

as Orchid said, don't give her the info on that yet.


10 steps to a plan B letter

1.State that the WS actions with and since OP/A, have eroded your loving feelings for them. Your number one priority is to protect the loving feelings you have for spouse. In order to do this you must separate yourself from their presence and contact so their actions cease to diminish your love for them.

2.State of intention to stay married to spouse.

3. Acknowledge own shortcomings in creating the marriage rift. (generally but factually)

4. State intention to keep children in original happy “two parent” marriage.

5 State intention to work with spouse to rebuild marriage better than it was before, to create a situation for both of you, so happy you will be completely fulfilled in the marriage.

6 State - separation. no personal contact for any reason - names of intermediaries of choice - NO EMAIL. If children in family - how to hand over children for visit through intermediary - financial - separation unless it is for children's needs. (sometimes you cannot keep them with you and have to pay support).

7. State intention to separate financial accounts if there are no children.

This next para won't help in your stich - IMO

8. State conditions for rebuilding. NC with OP and NC letter to OP. Include IC, job change, moving away, limiting (moderating) FOO contact and changing social circles if one or all of these is the only way to NC and rebuilding. Acknowledge that this will be hard for them and state your willingness to do anything to make this possible and to support them through the changes necessary.

9. No other way to see or talk to you. NO EMAIL. Do not make exceptions to the boundaries - (common sense - in life or death situations, they, intermediary or doctor would automatically contact you and separation would be put on hold)

10. Reiterate love for spouse and intention to be married to them for the rest of your lives.

SP

Well, yesterday as she was leaving for work her car wouldn't start, she asked me to give her a hand, but it still wouldn't start (recurring problem...can't pinpoint why this happens though). She called her boss on his cell to see if he would be able to give her a ride, he couldn't, then said she would see if she could get a ride. I was a little concerned and confused since OUR car (her's was bought by her alone very recently) was here and working fine, and I had just got home from work.

Turns out she hadn't heard about the changes with my job, and thought I had to go to work shortly. As soon as I offered the car she was more than happy to take it. I also offered to see if I could figure anything out with hers, and she agreed. Did some work, problem still not clear, but it did start...don't know why.

I did, though, tell her that I love her and to have a good day at work, to which I got no response (which is better than past times I had said these words).

I really think she is having second thoughts, although I have no way to tell unless she were to talk to me about it. Should I ask something like, "Is there something that you want to tell me or talk about?" And just leave it at that?

I am really hoping for a miracle...but I do doubt it and do expect Plan B to be necessary. HOPEFULLY Plan B will do the trick VERY FAST...but I plan on nothing, and am prepared for the worst.

It is so bizarre...my wife was always someone I could talk to, and about anything no matter how great or how horrible. Now I get nervous about her reaction when I say anything to her.

Anyhow, enough of that=) Onto the Plan B letter...

Hmmm...I am having a problem with this letter and applying your advice. I read through it with the advice in mind, made a few changes...but the length, more than anything else, remains. Also, SP, I used that template in writing this. So below is the slightly edited version, but numbered in reference to the template.

1. It cannot be said enough: I love you more than you probably know. You are the most important person in my life, and meeting you has remained the most important thing ever to occur in my life.

2. I intend to remain married to you for the rest of our lives. You are the one for me, and I will not give up that easily on you, on us. I meant every word of our vows, and I plan to keep my promises. With everything that has gone on, with how we met, and everything considered, we have come very far.

3. Of course, our marriage wasn’t perfect, otherwise an affair never would have been appealing to either one of us. But that doesn’t mean you and I as a couple are inherently flawed. I have learned and come to acknowledge what I did to cause a rift between us. For the most part—and this is no excuse—I was afraid of myself, of my love for you…of being completely honest with myself. Regardless of that though, I recognize that I didn’t give you enough affection, conversation beyond the political and philosophical, enough passion, attention, time. All the same, you continued to love me, even if at times you felt it slipping, and you continued to love me because even though I was holding back, I was also doing a lot of things right.

3a. (Acknowledging and explaining how you have changed) Recognizing shortcomings is only half of it though, and thus I have worked improving myself and actually have. Both for you and for myself, since I have to be happy with any changes I make anyhow. I’m in love with you not because I’m your slave, but because we are equals and we should always make each other happy at the same time, at all times.

I am a thousand-times more in-touch with my own feelings, emotions, and desires. It has brought out the romance and passion I always knew dwelled within. I won’t have to try to be romantic or passionate with or towards you, instead I simply am and can fully express it now; and it feels good. Beyond that though, many positive changes have occurred. I have grown closer to my family, our family, both sides…although I don’t see your side of the family as much as I would like. I am cleaner and more organized than ever before, and I am really proud of that. I’m even a better worker. I am able to discuss and converse more freely about so much more. I also find that I have simply matured and grown up a LOT in the past few months.

I look forward to being able to show you the new me, who remains the old me all the same.

5. I intend, and look forward, to working with you so that we can rebuild our marriage, and make it into something infinitely better. There are no prescriptions or recipes to follow, instead we need to figure each other out, what each of us need, how best to make each other happy, how to do things that please both of us and never just you or just I. We can, I have no doubt, build a marriage so happy and so powerful that we will both be completely fulfilled by each other, forever.

6. Sadly though, your affair and the way you have been acting because of it has begun to erode my love for you, and my number one priority is saving and improving this marriage, which means I must retain my love for you. In order to do this, I must separate myself from your presence.

7. This means that we cannot have any contact for any reason. When there is something that you need to tell me or I need to tell you, K has agreed to be an intermediary between us. To be clear, there are very few reasons for contact outside of obvious emergencies and the like; basically the only reason is when you are ready to end the affair—or it has ended—and you are ready to rebuild our marriage. This lack of contact will include no communication in any way, not seeing each other, no shared bills or other financial items.

8. I of course look forward to being with you again, but that cannot and will not happen until you have told K that you want to recover our marriage. At that point I may be able to talk with you about everything and what we can do to recover.

9. But in the meantime, there are no exceptions to this total separation.

10. I will miss you desperately, but at least the affair will no longer be able to eat away at my love for you; a love I truly cherish. I do and always will love you and intend for us to be very happily together for the rest of our lives.

Still too long. Make sure you are showing the plan B letter is for her as a WS vs your W. That you love YOUR WIFE and not the WS. Then explain your plan B.

Don't spend time on love and concern. You are going to plan B because she isn't doing such. Don't give the WS kudos for NOT being a good W.

L.