Wow thank you so much Melody, Longhorn and OHHeartbroken. I had not looked at it that way but it makes so much sense. It's amazing that in such a short time I have become so dependant on the help I am receiving here.

After reading the sample letter OHHeartbroken wrote for me as listed above I can see where that would work for anyone I wanted to send it to. Short and to the point.

For a bit I was getting confused again about exposing H to the personnel department of his place of business because I got to thinking does a place of employement have the right to interfere in ones personnel business. It's not like they work together. I can't research the cell phone call times tonight because I don't keep the records here, but perhaps they are using company time to call each other. I have no idea if there are e-mails or IM's or not. Regardless I realize it's more to have attention called to what he is doing in the hopes of adding a few thorns to his and ow's rose garden.

Tomorrow I will get the name and address of the HR dept where H works and also the one where the OW works. Although I am thinking I may want to go to where she works personally and talk to the HR manager there. I will also call my PI and have him start the search for trying to locate family members of the OW that I can expose my information to.

I am so scared of the wrath I will face from him (no he will not get physical but as was pointed out in a post earlier, I will probably hear some words come out of his mouth that I wasn't even aware that he new. This will be so painful becuase H is never one to raise his voice or use curse words. But I know it is something I HAVE to do in order to help end the affair.

OH, something good, I went to Church tonight with my son and grandson. I haven't been in years. He only started going last week. This particular church has a lot of echos. I guess their sound system is not the greatest.

Longhorn, I belive you asked me when the motorcycle class is. The next one availabe is June 16-18th. There are 8 slots left. I am going to ask my boss tomorrow if she would like to sign up for the class with me. Either way, I'm going to sign up for it.

I also have to go to school this week and pay for my class. I know you guys who have given me so much support will be happy that I won't have the time to leave so many emails badgering for help. I'll still leave them, I am just betting the frequecy may go down from 10 a day to maybe 1 a day.

I still think it was pretty sorry that H didn't even say bye before he left. Oh well I'm not gonna fret over it, I can't control what he does but I can control my reactions to his actions.

It sounds like you are really catching on. Melody is an expert, and Longhorn gives excellent advice.

When your husband finds out you have exposed the affair he will be furious. They all are. He will say that this is the last straw, you are crazy, it was none of your business, how could you hurt the OW like that, he was thinking of working on things, but now he wants a divorce, you went about things the wrong way, and my favorite - he will never trust you again.

Stay strong, Leslie. The road is about to get bumpy but you'll get through it.

Thanks for the vote of confidence, y'all. Leslie, I just wanted to say that I think you have real good instincts about all this. You are smart, shrewd and proactive and that is what it takes to bust up an affair.

After you expose, I would work your fanny off to try and breach this gap that is between you both. But I see that you are very aware of this already. You are on the right track!

I do think that your focus on Admiration will greatly benefit you because I suspect that is what attracted him to the OW.

leslie,

I have just sat here and read this whole thread. There are a lot of similarities to our stories.

You sound to be a very smart woman who is doing her homework. Keep reading here and getting wonderful advice from people like Longhorn, Melody and so many others.

I have been where you are and I know its not easy. I am praying for you and your family.

I didn't do everything right and it may have caused me to loose my marriage, so please take the advice given to you, it's sound advice and it does work to help you recover....

Take Care,

Hurting

Hi Leslie,

I'm a bs too, and if you notice my profile, also have an older husband who had an EA with a younger ow, 28, to be exact.

You have been given some great advice by the veterans here, but I notice that your husband is of retirement age, and it concerns me that you are going to be exposing to his work, and his affair is not with a co-worker.

If I am not mistaken, I don't believe you are supposed to expose at his work unless, the ow works there.

I worry about exposure at work for the reason of your financial security.

If your husband is fired, what about your financial security that comes from retirement benefits, pay, etc.....

I just can't see you killing your financial security that will come with the 25 years of marriage by exposing at his work.

I would definately expose where he plays, and your mutual friends that might help shine a light on how truly disgusting his affair with the ow is.

Find the people that you ws admires and values their opinions of him.

You seem to have a handle on things, I admire the fact that you have done the P.I. thing.

While it is good that you accept the things that you have done wrong in the marriage, remember, one of the principles of doing recreational projects together is finding one that is pleasing to both of you. I know that you are down on yourself about not being involved in motorcycling, and said you despised it.

Recreational time is not just for the one that loves the hobby.

Recreational time should be spent doing something that you both are interested in so that both of your lovebanks ring up points, doing things that both of you enjoy and doing them together.

The best advice I can give you though, is to make yourself the most attractive person possible by being:
calm
dressed nicely
Going out with friends
Discovering the pleasures in life
Being firm about your boundries
When exposing, be calm, matter of fact, and offer the explanation when questioned about exposing to friends and family, "I was saving my marriage."


The things bs do to disgust the ws are:

Demand
cling
whine
cry
I Love You's
Call WS constantly
allow appearance to decline
appoligize over and over

Remember, your goal is not to attract him through pity.

Pity, is not respect.

Respect has to be earned.

By believing life can be good without your spouse, and making improvements and positive changes in your life, you will have a good chance at attracting back your husband.

If your ws follows others that were in his path, he will start coming around to get his fix he needs from you.

The BS has the advantage of knowing that the ws gets his needs met by both the bs and the ow.

The ow cannot fill all of his en's. He needs you.

Keep up the good work, Leslie.

Hang in there.

Sincerely,
K.d's Heartbreak

KD, the rule is to expose to anyone who can put pressure on the adultery, right? If the WH has a position where he is expected to refrain from infidelity and other indiscretions, the workplace is most certainly a valid target.

If your assumption were correct, no one would expose to a church's leadership unless the adultery began in church...nor to the WP's family, unless the adultery began in that family.

Hello Leslie and welcome. Some really good people have posted to help you and we all hope to see you restore your marriage. Exposure is necessary, and these folks will guide you on the best way to do that. Without exposure, in the way they've advised you, the affair will continue.

The stuff about the affair partner having nothing to do with the broken state of your marriage, that is standard wayward spouse fog babble. ("He/She is not the problem.") oh yeah. Heard it.

Now I want to talk about your grandson, who is the most vulnerable person in this mix. I'm afraid that you are his only hope. Your son isn't making enough money to support the child and get his own place. Even if he were, the child needs you in his home. Why? Because he doesn't have a Mommy. Mommy is a flake who has put him in real danger.

I understand the dynamics of the strain that having your son and your grandson living under the same roof with you and your wayward husband. The relationship between your son and your husband has always been cool. Now there's a very needy 3 yr old boy in the house as well. Since he never warmed up to your son, why would be suddenly become warm to your grandson? He is an extension of the child he adopted but never really loved.

Nonetheless, you are the little boy's only hope. You are the only one who loves him in the concrete way of providing stability and the immeasurable way of real family love. You have rescued him and your reward is that you get to continue rescuing him.

I hope you husband will come to his senses and return to you to rebuild your marriage. I also hope that he is big enough to accept the burden and responsibility of helping to raise your grandson, because that is what it is going to come down to.

You have to sit together once he decides to give up the ***** and really talk the whole thing out. You'll probably have to be really clear and repititious about the fact that the little boy is going to be in your home indefinitely.

Given the choice of saving my little grandson and getting my husband to move home with me, the helpless little one would have to be top priority. It stinks, it's not fair. You have raised your children. But your son is flakey, his ex wife is flakey, and if your grandson went back to live with his Mom and her boyfriend he would be in danger. He would be living with a man, not related to him, not fathered by him. It would be a man willing to live in squalor with a woman who uses drugs. Drug users have poor impulse control, they are selfish. Do you know that children who are injured and abused by men are more often than not living with their Moms and their live-in boyfriends? Going by the numbers, it isn't a good sitch.

Somehow I sense that you can already see this and that i'm just preaching to the choir.

You were married to your now H when your son was just a little boy. History is repeating itself, but in a much lower level. Your son's little boy was living with a man not his biological father, a man who could not have possible loved him. Your H was chilly to your son, but he DID adopt him and try to be a father. He wasn't just tolerating the boy to have a woman in his bed. He committed to you in marriage, he went the legal route to adopt your son.

sorry this is so long.

Hello Longhorn, <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I expected to hear from you. Respectfully, allow me to clarify a couple of things I have said.

I do believe in exposing at work, when it is warrented.

But I also believe that if there are other venues of exposure, and those involved in the affair are Not co-workers, it is best to expose at the workplace at the last ditch effort, because of the high stakes.

I exposed to my husbands former ow's employer, and it worked beautifully.

But, the affair was being conducted at the OW's place of work.

I believe strongly in exposure, and wanted the bs to know of the possible ramifications of exposing at her husband's workplace, especially since he is of retirement age and this could effect both of their lives. In the end, she should do what she can afford to do, with both of her eyes open.

You do a great job, and I am a real fan.


Respectfully,

K.D.'s Heartbreak

Todays progress:

I registerd for my motorcycle class. I even told my boss about it and she also registered. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I called the PI and got a few names and addresses. The PI think they are the OW's mother, father and brother. I cross referenced the names and got some phone numbers. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Now I can't decide if I should call or write them. I'm leaning towards calling them and then a couple of days later maybe following up with a letter. Opinions?

Later on this evening I will take all the names, addresses and email addresses and put them on one list. This list will be my exposure list.

My boss told me today (she is the only one that knows at work) that if I am scared of H's wrath, I am more then welcome to stay with her so that his only form of contact with me will be via telephone or email and I can ignore both for a few days if I choose to. (Cowards way I know)

I'm also thinking I should change the locks on my truck so that he can't take the truck. One of the doors doesn't open with a key anyway so it would be a valid reason to do it. I just think H will be so angry he will be looking for some way to hurt me (not physically) but things such as taking my truck.

I'm also going to try to find out if Metro Government has a "Morality" clause that this may fit into.

I'm still have serious thoughts about contacting the OW. I have heard pro's and cons on contacting the OW. I am a much stronger person (emotionally and mentally) then I was even yeserday. I feel like I can meet her, without sounding and acting like a crying, bumbling, pleading idiot. Does it hurt to contact the OW? I know it may or may not Help but is it taking a step backward if I do?

The books I got came in today. They are:

Surving an Affair
Fall in Love, Stay in Love
Love Busters
His Needs, Her Needs

Too Good to Leave, To Bad to Stay
This Matter of Marriage
Should I Stay or Go
When Love Dies how to save a hopeless marriage

I have started reading Surving an Affair. I don't want to put it down. It is so well written and understandable. It makes me wish I could take a few days off work just to read and absorb it.

I haven't looked at any of the others yet.

Good for you for getting all those books! That should keep you very busy for awhile.

I advise against contacting the OW. Most here who have tried it were sorry they did.

Leslie, contacting the OW is a largely useless gesture, IMO. OPs just do not have a sense of integrity which would respond to such a confrontation. If they had morals, they wouldn't be intruding into another woman's marriage. It's your decision, but don't expect it to have any real effect.

Good work getting the names and phone numbers. Your plan to call and follow up with a letter sounds good to me.

Use your best judgment on finding another place to stay for a couple of days. You know how your husband's mind works and we don't, except that we can identify those peculiar alien quirks we've seen over and over. If it would be best for your husband to stew in his own juices for a couple of days, go dark and stay with your boss. On the other hand, how about a friend coming to stay for those couple of days and being there when hubby comes by? Your friend will have to know everything, but that's okay too. Hubby will be thrown off message by that and I personally like aliens off balance. Choose the one which will put the most pressure on his relationship with the skank.

I've been meaning to ask. Does your husband know a private investigator has him dead to rights? Also, does he know all of your evidence? If he doesn't, and if you use the second option, perhaps it's time he began learning how tight a corner he's backing himself into? My feeling is when he comes over in a self-rightous rage, you turn it back on him and let him know he doesn't have even as much wiggle room as he thought.

If you think you need to change the locks on the truck or the house, you probably do.

SAA is a well written book and it gives you chapter and verse on how to salvage a marriage. Frankly, I think the last half of the book could be applied to every marriage to help them stay sound.

Hi Bellevue,



True, I found out that when I do nothing, nothing changes and H is still saying with the OW. It will be 5 weeks tomorrow. Since that technique failed miserably (not to mention, was messing with my self esteem) it's time to expose to those I think can make a difference.


I still think my son and grandson need to be in their own place. I will always be as close as a telephone call and more then likely son wil be living a few miles from me. My son has applied for assistance with rent and hopefully that will come through soon.

My son also works for the same company I do and will be trasferring to the same shift shortly so I will able to see him daily. The pre school he has enrolled my grandson in is a couple of minutes from my work which will give me the opporutnity to pick up grandson for lunch or at the end of the day when I want. In addition I will be the one that will watch him on weekends when my son has to work if I'm not working.

The responsbility of raising my grandson should fall on his father with my help on the side. It will also help my son retain custody of his son when the mother gets out of jail and attempts to try to get custody of my grandson. The more my son can stack in his favor showing that the grandson is loved and thriving and is better off with him the better his odds are of keeping custoday.





That would mean so much to me if he could, I just am not sure he has it in him. If not, I will just have to love my grandson twice as much and tell hubby that under no circumstances will I accept the same treatment to our grandson as he did to our son (pretty much this was just ignoring him).


No my son is not flakey. At least not this son. His younger brother is the flakey one.



I am not going to make excuses for his mother. She is young and was not prepared to have a child. It has already been decided by CPS that when she gets out of jail after completing the required programs (drug classes and parentng classes)that she will only be able to have SUPERVISED visits with her son. This is part of the reasons my son is working to stack the deck in his favor of retaining custody of his son.

Thank you for your wonderful insight and input. Today it came to me today that all things happen for a reason even though we may not totally understand them. God decided that William needed and should be in my home and so he found an opportunity for it to happen.

With GOD all things are possible

Take care and please keep posting.

Leslie

Hi LH.

I feel like you have come to my rescue so many times and yet I always wait anxiously to hear your thoughts on my postings and your suggestions.

Good work getting the names and phone numbers. Your plan to call and follow up with a letter sounds good to me.

Use your best judgment on finding another place to stay for a couple of days. You know how your husband's mind works and we don't, except that we can identify those peculiar


When I confronted him with the affair he asked how I knew, I said I have my ways. He replied you hired a PI? At that time I hadn't but I let him think what he wanted. I did not tell him it was simply a cell phone bill that I looked at that started me on the path of discovery.

I have never told him that I hired a PI nor have I revealed the information I have. Maybe you are right and after the expose and his rage afterwards, I may start dropping a few hints on how his contuining the affair will hurt him financially.

According to my attorney H has NO wiggle room. I have more then enough evidence to file a contested divorce and prove adultry. She also said I should have very little if any problem getting life time alimony.

I don't know much about the law, but I'm sure your attorney is absolutely correct. You've got him by the scruff of the neck and there's nothing he can do. Let's hope it doesn't come to that.

A thought: younger women who latch onto older men often are predatory and cultivate the relationship because they think they've found a way to financial security. Hmmmmmmmmmmm... I may back away from what I said about contacting the skank. If she knew you had enough to "hang" your husband in family court...and that he wouldn't have nearly as much disposable income after a divorce??? I don't know. What do you think, Leslie? Let's get others to comment on this.

What you do about exposure in your husband's workplace is up to you and, as you can see, there are varying opinions. My rule of thumb is to expose only to people/organizations who can reasonably be expected to have enough influence over the WS to put pressure on the adulterous relationship.

An employer can place tremendous pressure on a person to end an inappropriate relationship, whether the affair is conducted on company property or not. I'll bet you your next paycheck your WH has used city email systems, IM services, and Internet access to further the adultery...and he did it on company time. If for no other reasons, I think those justify the exposure to his employer.

You, though, are there and you know far more factors that may contribute to such a decision. I'll support you which ever way you go.

But lets say he comes back as a result of what he looses financially, That is not enough to build a marriage on. Perhaps I'm thinking to far ahead? One step at a time. He feel in love with me once, and there still has to be some love there (even though he may not realize it or admit it) so him coming home under any circumstances has to be a good starting point.

I'm really leaning towards contacting the OW and as you suggested letting her know that H won't be quite as well of financially as she may think. (I will also wait and listen to a few other's thoughts on this as you suggested).

Plan of action this week, if contacting the OW is the way I wind up going:

Friday : Make contact with OW letting her know that I am NOT going to give up on my H and our marriage. (Not sure if person or phone is the way to go though) In addition I will also let her know that an attorney has been retained and all facts including her name, address, work #, cell #, items purchased for her by H, Photos and a PI willing to testify to his knowledge of H and her relationshp and so on have been given to the attorney. I will also simply let her know that I will be awarded lifetime alimony, half of his pension, half of social security earnings and of course half of all of our assetts. Basically I will be telling her that the income H has now will be pale in comparision to what he will wind up with.

I have a feeling that by doing this it will cause her to do some thinking.

Then on Saturday, I will call her family members (parents and brother) and explain to them how I know they did not raise their daughter in the manner in which she is currently living in. That I am the wife of the man she is living with. I will tell them we have been married 25 years and his age and that he also has two adult children along with a grandson. I will say I am telling you this because I want you to know that I love my H very much and am working to save my marriage and I would apreciate any help they are willing to give in supporting me in doing this.

Hopefully they will call her on Saturday after our conversation. This will give me the weekend to be out of the house. I refuse to be here when he comes over but not out of fear for myself, (I am scared but more so because I do not want our grandson exposed to H's anger)

In additon on Saturday I will e-mail H's parents and sisters and telling them what is going on and telling them I would appreciate any help they are willing to give in saving our marriage. I will give them H's work phone #, cell phone # and his e-mail address. I am guessing if he were to see a phone call from them he would not answer so that is why I would also supply the e-mail address. Each of his phones has voice mail so they will be able to leave him a message.

Then depending on the outcome is when I will make my choice of contacting H's employement. (I'm sorry LH) I have to stall on this one until I see the outcome of the things listed above. I do not want H to loose the respect he has earned from work if the steps listed above are enough to seperate him from the OW. If they do not seperate then I will contact the few people that work with H that may have an impact.

I realize that by going this route I may loose some ground because I am not completly exposing everything at one time, but for now it's the way I have to do it.

I also know that if I do wind up having to expose at H's work I will then be faced with another round of H's angry outburst, however I am willing to go through it twice if it's required.

I hope you are not disappointed that I can not do H's work exposure until I see if the others have the desired effect.

Thanks for everything LH, I value yours and others input very much.

Not a problem, Leslie. Incremental exposure is perfectly valid in a very few cases and you're entitled to make that decision. You're in charge of your life and the plan for salvaging your marriage. Just be careful to not protect him from the consequences of his adultery, okay? It's his adultery that will cause a loss of respect at work, not the exposure of it.

I think you have a good plan. One note about Friday...WH is probably going to hear about your contact with OW just a few seconds after it happens, so be ready for an immediate explosion, okay?

I think I discovered the connection between H and OW. She works for an investment company. My goal now is to do some research and find out if it's a Metro sponsered investment company. If so that would definatly be a working relationship that I can validate.

I'm sure H had a reason to seek out investment information. I have a feeling there is more money hidden or invested then I am aware of.

LH, I fully expect H to try to contact me Friday evening after I have my conversation with the OW. Unfortuantly for him he won't be able to locate me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> He will have to stew over things for the weekend.

Good work! Your attorney can use information like that. If they are personal investments, she can subpoena the records and find out where the accounts are. If they are city government, it's probably a conflict of interest.

Stewing can be a difficult thing for aliens. They have to face reality and it's uncomfortable for them. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Leslie,

I would not contact OW before you contact her family. The exposure needs to hit her out of the blue and she needs to feel the shame of her actions. The impact will be lessened when you expose to her first. I think it's great to expose to his family and her family at the same time so that she doesn't have any warning and can't call them before you do.

Also, I thoroughly agree with Longhorn, younger women are not interested in older men except for their $. I'm sure someone will disagree. I suppose there are some young women out there whose top 5 ENs are all "financial support" so the $ makes them feel like they are in love, but take away the $ and the girl is no longer interested. It's sad. I know of several situations like this and the guy is being played for a fool. If only these guys could hear how their girlfriend or wife talks about them behind their back. (By the way, I'm relatively young (late 20s), so my opinion has nothing to do with my situation as a BS.)

So, in your case I agree that you have a lot of power to end the A by making sure she knows you have consulted with the best attorneys (yes - I mean plural - pick the top 3 attorneys and go have an intial consultation - it's usually free - this is good for many reasons I won't explain right now) and that you will take your H to the cleaners and your H will be relying on her for $. Make sure she realizes that SHE will be paying for your H's upkeep and he will be BROKE. That will throw cold water on the A. Maybe you should also mention to OWs family that your H is old, approaching health problems, and will have no $ after the divorce, and that they should want better for their daughter than an aging, broke man she will have to support and nurse.

Also, if I were you, I would consider taking whatever legal action was necessary in order to protect your finances from him spending on the A and for your future in case things don't work out.

Good luck