Plus, Leslie, a letter to her will water down the effect of his NC LETTER to her.

She will think that you put him up to writing it which is what the OW wants to think anyways.

When my H was REALLY ready for RECOVERY, he had NO PROBLEM writing the NC LETTER.

I did not worry about how to make him do it. He either did it or I would not reconcile with him.

If he chooses not to write it, he simply isn't ready for RECOVERY. I don't think you should belittle yourself by getting on the same level with that YOUNG GIRL.

ICK!!!

MiMi, I agree about not writing the NC letter to the OW, the thought of it just makes me sick to my stomach. However how can I set a boundary and not respect boundaries he has. Isn't marriage about respecting and supporting each others boundaries?

I don't feel I owe her one either, and like you said she's lucky I din't do more then just confront her. I also agree she owes me an apology but I have no control over what anyone else does or doesn't do.

I love my H bottom line, and we need to be able to move forward and still respect each others boundaries. I am not nor will I ever become a dormat so hopefully this didn't make me sound like I accept any part of the responsbility of his infidelity. What I do share responsbility for is helping to let our marriage get to where it's at.

My three immediate goals right now are:

1. Hubby needs to write a NC letter
2. I want H to come home
3. MC. Appt is set for Wednesday.

There are a few others but those are the three most immediate ones.

This is certainly true in a normal, healthy marriage. What you are forgetting is that this is NOT YOUR HUSBAND. He remains a WH. Sad to say, he remains LOST TO YOU until he agrees to NC with the OW. This should be insisted upon with BOLDNESS and TOUGHNESS by you as suggested by Dobson. I also used his approach, saying to my H: I don't want you until you want me. Gaining his respect is essential! You have DONE NO WRONG. He has WRONGED YOU, just recently slept with another woman. He has not reached your level until he apologizes and acknowledges that what he has done is WRONG. That acknowledgement needs to actually come BEFORE the NC LETTER. I did hear this sort of this from my H before he ended his A.

Just wanted to quick add that I think Mimi is giving some terrific advice on this situation.

Lem

I think it will be a cold day in H*** before H can ever apologize for anything. I also told him, that he is far from perfect and has made mistakes but that I love him regardless. I recently told H that during our 25 years of marriage I can't remember ever hearing him apologize for anything.

You can bet that is one issue that will be brought up in MC.

Tonight I am focusing on the NC letter. I will fight tooth and nail about my apolgoizing to OW or her family. I will tell him if he feels the need to apologize to her father for sleeping with OW that is his right. I bought ink for the printer as a precaution to make sure the letter could be printed.

Keep me in your thoughts tonight around 9:15 CST. I should have grandson asleep by then and hopefully enough nerve to be firm about the NC letter.

It's entirely up to you, Leslie. The letters are "throw away" negotiating points--that’s all. They probably won’t ever come to pass. I was trying to suggest a way to get beyond WH’s intransigence IF he refused to send a NC letter without the “apology.”

These aren’t apologies. If worded properly, they will say BS regrets the necessity of exposing. BS never says it, but she sure wishes she’d never had to do it but it was necessary. What is also left out is that the BS's husband made the exposure necessary by having an adultery with OW and OW cooperating in it. It’s never referred to, but everyone knows what that 800-pound gorilla in the room is.

The letters don't apologize FOR exposing. If one is sent to the OW, it's essentially saying "I wish to heck WH hadn't had an adultery and forced me into having that little talk with you, OW. I'd much rather never have met ya, beast!" but in nicer words. See what I mean?

This is just a counter to WH's proposal if he gets stubborn about the NC letter...it's a fallback position so the negotiations can get past a sticking point. It's a finesse move to use if a frontal assault won't work, that's all…and submitted only for consideration.

You're absolutely correct, Leslie. The OW really and truly owes you a letter expressing an abject apology for intruding into the marriage…but it's darned unlikely you'll ever see such an apology.

Anyway, I'll say no more about such a thing. I'm not that good at "negotiating" anyway. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Well, this is something that he needs to apologize for.

This is a major trauma for you, Leslie.

Sorry to say. It will take YEARS for you to heal from this.

He truly owes you an apology and you should expect it.

You can be tough and firm without lovebusting.

I actually practiced what I had to say to my H so that I wouldn't get too emotional.

DON'T ALLOW HIM TO EQUALIZE this SITUATION!

You have not done anything to him to MATCH this..

Going to find him with her was NOT AT ALL WRONG!!

You were just trying to cope with the horrible thing that he has done to you..

Okay finally got to talk to H after getting grandson to sleep. Wow, he was a devil to get to sleep. If you notice first sentence said I got to talk to H, since I was the one that did most of the talking. But for tonight, that was okay I got a lot of things out.

First I started by telling him that I love him and am willing to commit to our marriage by 110% but I can't do it alone. I let him know that I was reading SAA and offered to loan it to him if he ever wanted to read it. I shared with him how it has opened my eyes to a lot of things. I also told him that I share the blame for the shape our marriage was in, but that his choosing to go outside our marriage was a decision that he made. (He started to tear up, but managed to compose himself rather quickly). Yes I'm sure I did some LB'g tonight but I think there were enough points in the LB to handle it.

H had mentioned when he first got here that he had signed up to take another computer class two nights a week. Needless to say that made my heart sink. My thoughts were "Is he using this as an excuse to see OW". I told him how I was feeling and asked him if he was still having any contact with her anymore. His reply was, "I'm not going through that harrassament again". That got my goat. So at that point I told him, that I felt his loyalties should lie with me. That the OW was not an innocent party. The minute she went out with a married man and also slept with him she lost her innocense in my eyes. I guess he wasn't expecting that answer. I asked him what he would do if she called, he said not answer the phone. (more in next posting)

Continued -

I then told him how important the NC letter was to me. His reply was "I'm sure there are some in the book, type one up and I'll sign it". I replied, "NO, the letter has to come from you as a final good bye to her ending all contact for life." Rather then just stopping there I asked him outright "Are you willing to write the letter so I can mail it". Still not letting it go at that, I then asked "When". His reply was "this weekend". I told him I sure hope you will follow through because often you tend to sweep things under the carpet hoping they will go away, and I made sure he understood this was not going away.

Now I'm on a roll and still determined to clear what is on my mind and H seemed to be a willing listener. I then told him I want you to come home but I need the NC letter first. I asked him, "Do you want to come home?" He replied "YES" then not leaving it there, I asked "WHY", his answer was because he feels this is where he needs to be.

Feeling good about our talk, but still hating that he puts everything off. I guess I'll have my answer this weekend on the NC letter. I will reinforce the need for it sometime late Sunday afternoon.

Before he left I hugged him and told him I love you. No reply or return hug but wasn't expecting one from him. I just wanted him to know how I felt.

As I said earlier, I'm sure I did a lot of LB'g tonight and hope I'm write about there being enough in the bank to cover the withdrawal.

Oops forgot to mention that I also asked H if he would remove password from access to the bill online. He said yes. I'm not stupid enough to think he can't call from another phone but at least it's a start. I'll broach him letting me have access to email next. Gotta build more LB points before I do this one.

So sorry for you. I'm going through the same thing. Told H tonoight I wanted a NC letter, but he refuses, saying he is not ready to end it in his mind just yet. Says I can't give him such an ultimatum. I hate this, letting him call all the shots when he is the one who caused so much harm and pain.

rltravleed,

As was pointed out to me on many occassions H doesn't call the shots anymore I do. He is out of the house and even though legally I can't keep him out, he has not tried to come back home without asking.

His first attempt to come home was once when he told me he didn't want to pay rent at his current place anymore. I told him that was not a good enough reason for him to return.

Now I'm not sure if his answer is sincere or not but I do know it's not healthy for our marriage to be living apart. However I did state my boundary as far as the NC letter. I'm not budging on that one.

Initailly when I brought it up the first time his alien brain told him I also owed OW and her father an apology for exposing. Luckily this time, he didn't mention that at all.
I think he knew after my comment about the OW not being innocent there was NO way I was writing this letter. (I must admit though it won't suprise me if he tries to bring that up on Sunday to get out of the NC letter). If he does not write it then I hope he enjoyes where he is staying because he will have to continue to stay there.

It's been a long 6 weeks to get to where I'm at now, but feeling hopeful since we have a MC appointment set for Wednesday. So for tonight I will go to bed with a <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

rltraveled,

One last thing, remember it's not an ultimatum it's a boundary there is a big difference.

Sounds like good things are happening, Leslie. I think coming home because that's where he "needs to be" is pretty good for right now. As uncommunicative as he is, he may be understating a deeper emotion. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

I didn't see any love busters in what you wrote. It's not wrong to set your boundaries and ask him to abide by them. Sounds to me more like you two had a reasonably frank discussion about things that needed to be talked about. Also, you set a good basis for more talks. You've got him responding to you, interacting with you, and agreeing to one aspect of what he'll come to know as "radical honesty" someday.

Contrast this with two weeks ago when there was no communication, blatant disrespect, and he was with OW. A few days ago, he could only come by to work on the vehicles. Tonight he sits down for a talk that could not have been pleasant for him to contemplate. He evidently doesn't want to see the OW even for the short time necessary to retrieve his glasses.

Leslie, that a LOT of turnaround in a comparatively short time. I'm optimistic. Great work!

Leslie, I've been following your story, hope things to well with the letter, I'll be praying that God will open his eyes and heart. For the six weeks of ****** you may end up with an even beter marriage, remember all we have learned here as the next few days go by.

LH,

Thank you for reminding me of the positive changes H has been made. Often times I tend to forget some of the baby steps he has made because I'm to busy looking at the bigger picture.

He has an eye appointment on Thursday so that means he has to take time off two days in a roll. When I asked him if he wanted me to reschedule or appointment so it was on the same day as the eye exam so that he would only have to take time off one day, he said No. Seems like he is willing to go to MC. For H to not pick up his glasses from OW is a HUGE step for him.

One thing I forgot to mention about last night, was I did ask him: How long had A been going on, and why did he even look at a personal ad anyway? (I'm sure LB'g) but his reply was he wasn't going to discus it until counseling. My reply, was, "I understand" and I thanked him for at least saying that much. This to me says he knows he has some uncomforable questions that I will want answers to and knows they will probably come up during counseling.

rufftimes,

Thank you for following my story. It's always nice to feel we are not along. I've often told myself that there is a reason for everything and while we may not understand or accept it, God has a plan for us.

I'm hopeful that things continue on the path with my H and that he DOES write this NC letter this weekend. It is a deal breaker for me if he doesn't.

I can't say that I'm glad, or that I can accept or condone the choices H made, but I do know it was an eye opener for me. I will not take my H for granted again.

I really don't think H and I would be where we are today, if it wasn't for the help I have gotten from so many of the fine people on this site. If I were the type to wear a hat I'd tip it to you, but since I'm not, please accept this as a big Thank You for your guidance, encouragemnt, even for making me accountable for things along the way. You have helped me grow emotionally and mentally much more then you will ever realize.

Honestly I'm not sure that our marriage would have survived, without something this drastic taking place. I hope that doesn't sound like I am happy over this because I am far from that.

Here are a few of the things I have learned:

I have learned that I am a much stronger person then I thought
I have learned to NOT take my marriage for granted.
I have learned that I can contine through life with our without my H.
I have learned that H is not the "saint" that I thought he was.
I have learned that I will not accept a marriage where either H or I emotionally withdraw from each other.

It's uncanny how much your WH sounds like mine.

There must be some midlife crisis WH pattern that we could write about.

My H came back home with "this is where I need to be" and "I know it"...

Here we are today with him SO MUCH in love with me..holding onto me this morning, kissing my back..it's so wonderful...

I pray this for you.

Be careful though. He remains addicted to the FEELING that she gives him..not to HER in particular...it's like an ANTIDEPRESSANT..HIGH for them...My FWH has used the word ECSTACY...

Like you, I think the A has actually HELPED my M. I know. You wouldn't want to wish this on anybody. But, I have read somewhere that lasting change can result from TRAGEDY...

Hang in there, Leslie.

You have done WONDERFULLY. You are a FIGHTER..a SURVIVOR...and like you say, you have come out of this a WINNER regardless of the outcome of your MARRIAGE.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Another Baby step today for H. For the last 6 weeks he has avoided my phone calls. He has caller ID at work so he knew when it was me calling. Yesterday he answered the phone but I think it was because caller ID showed our home number and it was a time when I normally was not at home to call so I felt pretty sure he thought it was our son who was calling.

This morning I thought I'd call him since it was one of the things I mentioned last night how I felt he was avoiding my phone calls. He answered the phone this morning so I am counting that as a baby step. I told him thank you for listening to me last night. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />