It's truly AMAZING how much "Thank-You" means to those HUSBAND CREATURES!!!

I feel like I say it TOO MUCH but, almost everytime I do say it, my H SMILES...

Just a TIP FOR THE DAY...

You are doing SOOO GREAT!!


ETA: See if you can get your hands on the book, LOVE AND RESPECT by Eggerichs at your local bookstore. I wish that I had read it YEARS AGO!!! I betcha, you will have AHAH moments when and if you read it.

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Way to go, Leslie. You're doing great work. There'll be fits and starts yet to come, but I think you've got everything moving in the right direction. Fantastic!

Baby step taken by H tonight.

Last night I told him how when he didn't bother to come in the house and at least tell me he was here that it upset me. It made me feel he was avoding me. Tonight he came in and told me he was here then went right out to the garage but he at least told me he was here. I am taking that as a Baby Step on his part.

Bit by bit, Leslie, those baby steps will mount up to giant leaps. BTW, is there that much work to do on the cars? Or is this his way of staying near you but not acknowledging that as his motive?

He races for a hobby. He has 2 go karts, 2 motorcycles and 1 race car. Almost everytime after he races he has to come home and modify or rebuild an engine. So yeah there is a lot to do. Funny though, almost the whole time he was gone he wasn't able to work on them and sure he missed some races but now it's like he's trying to make up for lost time.

For the longest time he has typically spent his time working in the garage. So while it's not something new, it's frustrating to me.

Sometimes I swear a part of me hates H. Sure he comes over to the house and spends the day or stays till 11 ish at night during the week then off he goes back to his safe haven (extended stay hotel).

I just got home from work and asked him if he would like to go on a date tonight, I could tell by the look on his face he really wasn't interested so to let him off the hook, I said, "Are you just not ready" and he replied "No". Needless to say I so wanted to cry because it hurt so much, but no, I just came in the house and am posting here to vent.

I am not the most patient person in the world but God knows I'm trying. I have heard about the addiction and the fog that a WS is in, so it seems like even though he is seperated from OW it's still all about him.

He's taken a few baby steps that I have given him credit for but how can it be so difficult to spend time with someone that you have been married to for 25 years.

I am telling myself "Breath Deep", "Remain Calm", "Don't LB" and while I haven't LB'd yet, I'm far from calm right now and just want to go rip his head off. Well okay, that's a little dramatic but at least go tell him how it is hurting me when he is avoiding me. I'm trying to hold off until we have our counseling session on Wednesday. I think I'm going to make a list of the things that is on my mind and maybe with the counselor's help get a few answers.

If it gets to bad here where I feel I can't continue for the day, I think I'll go get a hotel room and just chill out for the day. That way I can pound on a pillow, cry my heart out, and no one other then me (and those that read this will know).

Looking for tips to remain calm, and not let his avoidance get to me. It's like something is pulling me outside to go clear the air and let him know how his actions hurt.

Sometimes I wonder if he or our marriage is worth the fight. It would be so much easier to tell him just go. Go to the OW, that's who you want, just go. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

No, actually your WH seems to be letting go of OW easier than most. He's dropping back into the routine that is most comfortable to him, probably to keep busy and not have to think. Don't discount the possibility he's feeling embarrassment, shame, and guilt about what he's done. There might even be a tinge of relief it’s over. All of these would make him uncomfortable around you, but he wants his old life back…and his old life includes you. The task will be for you to make him see in MC the old ways aren’t good enough for either one of you, and you have a professional counselor to help you with that. It will be difficult, because (from what you’ve written about him) your husband is very much the stoic. Getting him to open up will be a project but I think once the dam is breached, it’ll be progressively easier.

If I might suggest, stay away from words like “date” for now. A date is a clearly romantic thing for you two to do and he would not have any separation “device” from you. He’d have to talk to you, look you in the eyes, and this would increase the guilt he feels. I’m making up phrases like "separation device" as I go along here, but him working on his car is one of what I have in mind. He’s there with you as much as he was before the adultery, right? When he does this, the intensity of your interaction is limited to an acceptable level. When you push that level beyond what he can accept right now, you see the effect in his eyes, his lack of positive reaction, and even some pulling away. Give him a little more space between you, as it were, but you can make it clear you’re there when he’s ready.

For example, instead of saying, “Let’s go on a date,” how about saying, “That new movie about (the Iraq War or whatever) is playing down at the (wherever). I feel like getting out of the house and going to see a movie. You want to come? You can pay for the popcorn.” I mentioned a “guy” movie, because I think he’d be more inclined to go to one like that than he would “Steel Magnolias,” for instance.

See where I’m going? Movies are safe. They’re noisy and people are all around. You can even tell him that. He can reasonably expect you not to want to talk about "relationship" or things like that. It’ll be safe for him.

If the signs are favorable, you might grab his hand at a particularly “scary” moment, apologize and let it go while saying “I was scared,” or something like that. He can accept that, it’s an ego-building thing, but your quick release makes it clear your aren't asking him to commit to anything. Then you can do it again. Leave your hand there longer but let go, etc., etc. Bit by bit, build something without pressing too hard.

Now, if he doesn’t want to go, you can do a “180” on him. If he refuses, you arrange to go to the movie with a girlfriend, or make it seem to him you are. (Do I need to say you set it up with your gf so she knows what her role is?) Come home and talk effusively about the movie, subtly letting him know he missed a good movie and your friend (in whose place he could have been) enjoyed it immensely. You don't even have to see the movie you started out with. You can imply the movie was sold out, there were too many obnoxious teenagers, etc. That leaves the prospect of him going with you to see the original movie setting out there. The process may well work the next time.

Leslie, find a way to work off your frustration. I’m not a terribly patient person either. When I have to, I work it off physically. My “weapon of choice” is to lift weights, but you choose your own way. Walk, or bike, around the block (or several) blocks, punch those pillows, go to the gym and climb that stair master (or whatever) until you’re too tired to be frustrated any longer, okay? It’ll work; you’ll feel better about yourself because the troubles are pushed away for a time, and because exercise has the effect of boosting your self-confidence too. Try it, as they say, you’ll like it.

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I think that's a wonderful plan from LH! I know my Hubbie was like this. He just didn't and really still doesn't want to talk about our relationship. I mean he has compremised his morals and is ashamed of what he's done. I think it is very hard for him to look me in the eyes sometimes, especially when I'm wearing the pain all over my face! Have you ever walked to the garage with something to drink for him? Just say Hey, thought you would be thrist or hungry, whatever, leave it on the table and walk out. That way he has to walk in the house to wash his hands, or return the dishes, there's some kind of interaction that doesn't involve the M. I mean don't do it all the time, you know every three or four days. Especially if you've made something he likes! It's something without being pushy which I have a tendency to do sometimes.

Just a thought!

LH, I really don't think H is handling the seperation from OW better then most. I really think she ended it and probably said some things to him that made him mad. Since he is a habitual conflict avoider it is just easier for him to let ow go. Your terminology of "stoic" for my H truely hits the mark.

Today was actually the first time I used the word "date" and did that because other invites made to him still didn't work. My thoughts were since they didn't work that perhaps the thought of dating might. Yeah that failed also.

I thought like you that it might be the idea of sitting down and looking at me over dinner that just might be to hard for him now, but let's see, I have suggested (dinner, bike ride, movies, walk) and none of those worked. (NO, not all of them were tried tonight. I wouldn't try to put that much pressure on him) At one time earlier when I suggested dinner and his reply was "I'm not hungry" I said it's okay, I really just wanted to spend some time with you and forget about talking about us or what is going on. I just wanted to enjoy some time together.

It's painfully clear to me that while H has taken some small steps he is really not putting much effort in wanting to work on us. The thing that I have to figure out is if it's due to he doesn't know how or simply doesn't want to. I'm hoping if it's the not knowing how to move forward the MC will be able to help with that part.

On the other hand if it's the not wanting to, then there is nothing I can do to make that happen until and unless he is ready. Then he needs to hope that I still want to.

I've done the movie thing (alone) but not in the last week or so. He thought I was going with a friend. Granted I never come home and talked about the movie to him.

I asked H if he has removed the password from the cell phone account yet, he said no. No explainations like haven't had time, forgot about it or anything else.

H said he was going to the store (I was hoping he would invite me) but nope didn't happen. Anyway my aunt from PA had called earlier while I wasn't here so I asked H if I could use his phone later. He said OK. Now, here is the kicker, right before he left, I asked him if I could use the phone while he was gone, His reply was, "I don't even know where it's at right now".

On the other side of the coin now he does make more of an effort to talk to me when I go outside. Trivial stuff but still he is making an effort.

I have to confess though in the last week, I have driven past the Hotel he is staying at to see if his car is there when I think it sould be. It always has been so far.

Tonight, I think I'm just going to close the door to my bedroom and work on cleaning it some. H will have to seek me out if he wants to talk to me tonight.

Needing,

Let's see I have bought him sandwiches twice (never ate either one) bought him a 4 pack of drinks, (I think he drank those) bought him another drink, he gave it to our son. I have bought him cut water mellon, (his favorite food) that was never touched.

I told H he had some mail in the house. After it sat inside for two days I put it in the garage. In the stack of mail is his favorite racing magazines. They are still exactly where I put them.

Not trying to counter every thing you say with something negative, H has GO JO he uses to clean his hands, It requires no water.

H is going to be the death of me yet or drive me to insanity, not sure which is going to come first.

Okay, you were already doing it. Nuts. I was hoping you could break the stalemate. Unfortunately, there are rises in this road, dips, and sometimes you're on a plateau that seems interminable.

Well, he seems to be waiting for the MC next Wednesday for some reason. If he’s a conflict avoider, that’s something he would do. He agreed to the MC without putting up much of a fight, is that correct? Would he be inclined to put everything off until then…and what can you expect him to do in the session?

LH,

Yes he agreed to the MC without any hesitation. At first when I suggested the MC I thought his motive was to turn his anger on me but in a controlled environment. Even the other day when he referred to my knocking on the door of OW as harrassament (I've already written about that though) so I know he's angry as heck over that, plus who knows what else since he's been holding it in for so long.

And yes as a conflict avoider I'm sure he's hoping to just do his thing until we go to counseling. Kinda Don't rock the boat type of thing. What he is not comprending is the boat has been rocking for a long time and is about to sink.

I told him that I don't intend to turn the MC session into a b******g session and I hope he doesn't plan on doing the same thing. He never made any comment.

While anticipating MC I am also dreading it because I have no idea what I'll be walking into.

So far NC letter has NOT been written, but he said he'd do it this weekend and the weekend is not over yet. I'll be surprised if he does.

If I'm not mistaken though his rent is due on Tuesday. I don't think they can pay by the day where he's at. With our appt on Wednesday, don't know if he is just hoping to move back and just go to counseling the next day without having to write the NC letter or take any proactive steps.

And yes, I'm still cleaning the bedroom and sorting things to give to Goodwill. Trying to give him some space and actually see if he ever comes searching for me. I highly doubt he will unless it's just to come tell me he's leaving (if I'm lucky).

I know I should probably be trying to add some points to his LB but at the risk of withdrawing more then I am able to add, I'm just doing my own thing tonight. I'm sure he finds it a relief that I'm not outside with him.

Okay, he's pinning his hopes, as it were, on the MC session. He's so uncommunicative at the best of times but he's putting things off until he's with a counselor who can function as a buffer between you? I don’t know what you can do to break into that mindset right now. It’ll be interesting to see what happens Wednesday night.

I think taking the rest of the weekend off is a good idea, Leslie. Relax and do some things for yourself. I’m not entirely sure he’ll be relieved. It may be he wants you there, but at arm’s length.

The fact that he is willing to go to counseling is huge. My husband never would go. I would rather have heard what some of his issues were. He never complained about anything, just left. And he never agreed to counseling, never talked to me about anything, nothing.

If I were you, I would listen to what he has to say. Just listen. He might do a lot of babbling, though.

If I gave the impression I wasn't willing to listen that that was my bad. I do plan on listening, just worried how much anger is going to come out.

I wish I would have taken the appointment they had available on Monday but due to having to do payroll on Monday's it would have been almost impossible to get the day off.

It's just hard being around someone when you have no idea what they are thinking or feeling. Yes, I know it was like that for a long time, but it was to the point that that both of us were doing our own thing.

If his toys wasn't here I'm not sure he would even bother to come around.

Yep still cleaning my room tonight. It's looking much better. Even though it's been a frustrating night, I know I will appreciate waking up in the morning to a spotless room. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

8:24 p.m. Sunday night and so far H has not followed through on writing his NC letter. I know he wants to come home tomorrow because his rent is due by noon. I will mention the NC letter to him tonight and tell him how important it is to me that it is written.

I guess I'll have my answer here shortly on if he really wants to work on us by writing the NC letter. I don't want him to come home if he can't write the letter. I know legally I can't keep him from coming home though.

I've been gone most of the day just to give him the chance to write it without me having to prompt him. Since he had said earlier this week he wanted to come home because he felt this is where he needs to be, why is it so hard to write the NC letter? Am I pushing to hard for one?

You're not pushing too hard. It's a boundary beyond which you cannot be pushed. But he WILL put it off as long as he can. Hang tough, lady.

I told H today that I was glad he was here and that I want him home and then I reminded him that I need the NC letter. I told him if he wants he can use my computer and printer and when it's done I need to sign and mail it.

I gave H yesterday the SAA book and tonight when I reminded him about the NC letter I told him there was a sample in the book. I sure hated parting with the book. I may order another one just for me to keep as a reference.

Then I gave him a kiss and hug and said I am going to bed. About 5 minutes afer I got to the bedroom I remembered he said he needed a shirt for tomorrow so I went to go see if he wanted to grab a shirt before I went to sleep. He was already gone.

Suspicious me, I thought okay he left quick and early so he could go to OW's house and tell her goodbye or see if there was any chance on them getting back together. I drove to the hotel to see if his car was there and it was. I also drove past her place to make sure her car was at her apt and it was.

It's still a waiting game here. Either he will e-mail me the letter which I'll still have him sign it before I mail it or he will decide to stay at the hotel. Either way, I'll have my answer. The NC letter will be his first step in showing me he is done with the OW or the lack of the NC letter will show me he's not ready to come home.

This is so typical of him. I would have been shocked if he had the letter done and had just handed it to me. This is always his way, sweep things under the carpet and hope they go away. (Not gonna work this time). He has done this since we've been married and I would eventaully let things slide. It's going to be interesting and scarey at MC how much stuff he brings up. My best guess is it will be anything and everything I have ever done wrong. I plan on listening to him and letting him get it off his chest. I guess I'm going in to the MC session with the "attitude" off get if off your chest today because I fully expect to see additonal baby steps after that. Clear the air and lets move forward is going to be my motto that day.

It was kinda odd today, I used his cell phone and stupid me I didn't check to see who he's called lately. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> but after I got off the phone, I noticed he turned the phone back on and while I couldn't tell what he was looking it, it seemed he was checking to see who I called.

I have a feeling he will get less sleep then me tonight. He's the one that has to decide if he's going to write the NC letter. Me, I'll sleep like a baby because I know my plans if he doesn't write the NC letter.

Good attitude, Leslie. You can't make him write the letter or anything else. You can try to influence him and make sure he knows your boundaries but it has to be something that comes from inside himself. He needs to work himself out of the conflict avoidance mode and I think now's as good a time as any to begin that process.

Okay H finally wrote the NC letter. It's poorly written but afraid to push for more.

______________ (name of OW here)

I have come to realize I must never see or talk with you again. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship

Sincerely,

_______________ (Name of H)


My thoughts here, H is a conflict avoider and for him to do this was a huge step in the right direction. I know there probably should be something said about us but do I push for more or accept that I got this much.