Yes we did


I don't know



I just sent H email telling him that more then likely I won't be home tonight.

What happened in the session?

Come talk to us, Leslie. We're all here to help you through this.

((((Leslie)))))

Chances are what ever it is somebody else here has been where you are. You don't have to go through this alone.

First my apologies to everyone here. I was hurting so much yesterday that I didn't have it in me to post here.


Yesterday at end of session H started to tear up after counselor gave us our homework assignment. Since H had the responsbility of the last one this week it is my turn:

I am suppose to invite H to go do something with me. H's job is to say Yes. Once H heard he was to say yes, that was when he teared up and I reached over to touch his hand and he withdrew from my touch. (It hurt so much to see that H is repelled by my touching him). Counselor noticed that H withdrew hand and said, you don't like her to touch you do you, and H shook his head No. Another comment H made was that I don't know how to have "fun" anymore. (Well duh, it's hard to have fun when all that is on my mind is how uncertain things are between us). I think I'd rather have a few teeth pulled then force him to go someplace with me.

In counseling I brought up the cell phone password and we got in a heated discussion. Finally he said he'd print out the cell phone bill for me. (Counselor put a stop to the conversation since it was getting to heated on both our parts). Anyway, I'm sure H will not print up the cell phone bill.

I was so hurt by yesterdays session that yesterday afternoon that I e-mailed H and told him I may not be home last night. (I had thought about going to a hotel for the night) but talked myself out of it.

Now knowing how H feels, it has hurt me so much that I don't want to spend time with him. I am havng a hard time thinking about inviting him to go anywhere with me. I don't know that I can stand anymore rejection if he says no.

I will follow through on the assignement, but I'm at a loss on what to do. H mentinoned that I don't know how to have fun. So I want to do something fun. Any suggestions?

I do think he is still in contact with the OW. H has school two nights a week, and I've noticed that on his school nights if I go by her place she is not at her apt. (I was hoping to follow her car yesterday to see if she is meeting H someplace) Also H goes for an hour long bike (bicycle) ride every night. He also doesn't get home till 7:00 at night (while this is not unusual he actually could leave work earlier and stop by her place)

I went to OW's job (she was already gone) and while they do not have a HR person there, I spoke to the head of the department. All I got from this person was a blank stare as if he was thinking "What do you expect me to do". Basically I told him that I know there is "misuse of company time being used when this OW and my H are talking via phone and e-mail during working hours. If her boss calls her into the office today, I'm sure H will be furious when he comes home.

I also called her father again and like last time I only got the answering maching and left a message but this time I left him my home phone number. I'm hoping he will call me back but as of yet, he hasn't.

Even though in my heart I know H is projecting a lot of anger towards me that is not justified (I'm sure a lot is but not all of it). Some of it I believe is anger at himself and as long as he can hold on to that within himself then he won't have to feel anything else towards me.

Leslie,

Basis my own experience and being a "regular" on this board for 4 years now, I truly believe your WH and OW are still very much in contact. His unwillingness to be accountable vis a vis his cell phone and his anger are big red flags. Counseling sessions will do you little good if he is actively in the A....You might spend your money better by counseling with one of the Harley's.

Regards,

BB

BS-45
XH-47
DS-5
D-Day 5/02
Divorce Final 5/04

Counseliing is paid for by insurance. Since my future is so unsure right now I can't afford to call the Harleys.

I'm so sorry you have to go through this, Leslie.

I hate it for all of us us here.

The standard WH bullcrap....

I am a stickler for staying in the fight.

I'm not expecting everyone to be like me...but I just HATE the thought of the OW being victorious....

But it is a LONG, HARD, WINDING ROAD....

Like Mortarman used to tell me IT IS A SERIES OF BATTLES THAT WE HAVE TO FIGHT IN THIS WAR AGAINST THE ENEMY who is trying to destroy marriages....

This all being said, I agree that your WH is very much in contact with the OW and that traditional marriage counseling is probably useless or even hurtful to you as long as this is the case...

Your WH sounds no different than mine was when he was still involved and wanting to be with the OW.. I had to face into the fact, accept and acknowledge that he was "in love" with someone else....but this is not a reason for you to give up on your marriage if you want to work on this..if you feel that you are up to this...

Clearly, he is saying that he is HAVING FUN with her..typical midlife crisis stuff..she is the antidote to his depression..she is his escape from the reality of your life situation..same was true for my FWH..that makes those pretty young things (PYTs) sooo ADDICTIVE....

If you can, express your willingness to learn to have FUN with him..with him or not, learning to have FUN is good for you personally..DO THIS FOR YOURSELF..not for him...

HAVING FUN is what my H and I do now and it is great!!!! He has helped me learn to have more fun....I have learned that I am a WOMAN..not just a wife or a mother..or the worker bee...

Also, I think you need to CATCH HIM..yes, again...

GO OUT FIGHTING...as it seems that you are..I like it that you went to her job, etc.

Believe me, she wants you to GIVE UP.....so does he, right now...

In my viewpoint, maybe different than others here, I loved my H enough to fignt for him and today he thanks me for it..he appreciates that I helped him out of that he// that he got caught up in...your H is in that DARK, DARK PLACE and it is very ugly and stinky in there...

The next step is probably PLAN B but I would do further EXPOSURE first...as well as some FUN stuff...as bad as the counseling session was, your WH did provide you with some valuable information....

I'm scared as H***. What if my H is really in love with her? I can't MAKE him love me nor would I want to. I know she is an escape for him from the responsbilities we have. I think both of them would be relieved if I would give up. I know he's worth fighting for and I hope like your H MiMi that someday H appreciates that I was willing to fight for him.

My "gut" is telling me he is seeing her again and it was right last time so until I am proven different then I will go on that assumption. So it's a matter of time before I can figure out where and when they are meeting but I will find them. I guess my grandson and I will be taking a ride nightly. (no choice here but to take him with me)

One of the hardest things to do will be to not let my anger show towards him right now.

I know MC isn't going to work as long as he is seeing her but it's really the only time he's at least semi-willing to talk. If it wasn't for the MC and me having to watch my grandson I would probably go to plan B. (I was told my son may be going to day shift on July 5 - two more weeks)

Looking for suggestions on where I can invite my H to go. I don't think he will agree to it but I want to be able to say when the MC asks that yes I did keep my part of the assignement.

Leslie,

I agree that there is continued contact of some sort. I recognize the attitude your WH has, you walking on eggshells...trying to work on the M but it is only onesided. I feel for you <<hugs>>. After swimming in the river of "denial" for a year myself, your sitch sounds very familiar.

Can you take the grandson and go on a bike ride w/your WH? You can make it sound like you want to do something "fun". It could either be with your WH, or to follow him. On the other hand, it may be too open to actually spy on them this way. It may just throw a monkey wrench in his plans though!

Oh, Leslie....

Go ahead and cry this out because what I am going to say is HURTFUL..BEEN THERE DONE THAT....

According to the MB viewpoint, he is "in love" with her. It's not a longlasting, firm, forever "love" like we have for our H's...it's a romantic type of love...fickle, short-term, on shaky ground, breakup to makeup kind of love..but it is "in love"...

Why? Because she is filling his LOVE BANK...and he has allowed her to do that...she is primarily meeting his ENs and as you know he will not allow you to do that....

My H's affair lasted more than two years and he was very, very much romantically and emotionally attached to the OW...but I told him that he would fall in love with me again..I told him that I did not want him until he wanted me....dying and crying inside, I said these things and continued to fight....

Today...my H could not be more "IN LOVE" with me....

All that he has with her is the PRESENT...they are trying to make something NEW each day...She cannot keep this up forever and ever..this is why it is important to EXPOSE and to BLOW THEIR FANTASY APART..This is why PLAN B may be necessary to that he can see her and see the A for what it REALLY IS....

You do not have his love in the PRESENT..that's for sure...

But you had his love in the PAST...now he has to see that there can be a FUTURE with you...

Once he is able to WITHDRAW from her, he will be more receptive to allowing you to fill that LOVE BANK...

You hold his PAST, Leslie..there is so much about him that she can never know...she is trying to fill in the blanks...it's FUN in the beginning..playing "What's your favorite color?"; "What's your favorite song?"...YUCK...He will get tired explaining all this crap...

Leslie, she wasn't even alive during the VIETNAM WAR...or when KENNEDY was shot..What can they REALLY talk about?....

Ask him where he wants to go...or better yet..where do you think he would want to go...and yes..he may not go but he will REMEMBER that you were willing to ask him....That's showing that you are still in the fight....

Nabohio,

I can't even get H to go to Dairy Queen with grandson and I. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> As far as following him on the bike, he is in much better shape then I am and could easily outride me. He would just consider it one more way I was smoothering him. I think I'm much better off catching the two of them together.

MiMi,

Darn it, I don't want him to be in love with anyone but me. It's very heartbreaking to think of him in love with anyone besides me. I am so scared but I'm not going to give him to her by stepping aside.

If nothing else for now he is coming home to me at night, and while he is not trying to make us work he is going to counseling.

I think what he's really trying to do is push me far enough so that I will get so mad that I will file papers. Not sure how catching them again will make a difference but I've already caught them twice and will do it again. I want him to know that no matter where he goes I will know when he is with her. At some point I'm hoping he will decide she is not worth it. I've even thought about taking the 6 or more hour drive to talk to her father in person. I would definatly do it if I thought he would be home.

Other then kicking her a**, I'm not sure anything else would do any good. Last time I caught him at her apt I banged on the door and said I wasn't leaving till ___________ came out. Next time I will say I'm not leaving till my HUSBAND comes out. If nothing else the neighbors will know she is with a married man. (Not sure it will matter but Oh Well).

I'm betting that very soon she will report me to the apt complex as a trespassor. She is also very likely to call the police on me for harrassament. (What point does it become harrassament)?

I am so furious with both H and the OW that I completly wanna make her life miserable. Make her feel even a small part of the hurt I am feeling.

I sent H an email earlier asking him if there is any place in particular he would like to go. So far no reply. So I'm either thinking comedy club or ice skating. (I've never ice skated) I'm not sure I really like either of those idea though. Honestly I don't think he will agree to go anywhere with me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I waited outside OW's apt to see if H or OW showed up. I figured since I know his normal time to get home that he would go over there right before coming home. He never showed up but she did. She tried to drive off once she saw me but since I know the street makes a circle I just waited at the end for her to come around then I stood in the road knowing she would have to stop. She asked through the window what I wanted, I said roll down your window. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> She eventaully did.

She swears to me that she has not had any contact with my H since the last time that I know about. She did admit to calling him and telling him that I called her father again. (Now she didn't have to tell me this) so since she revealed it I'm wondering if perhaps she is telling the truth. She also said she would call me if H attempts to call her or email her agian. (I don't completly believe her but if nothing else she at least knows I am still watching.) I will follow her a couple of times when she leaves work on H's school nights to see if she is meeting him someplace. She also said she is not going to tell H I was over there tonight so if he finds out then I know she told him.

Now this leads to my questions:

#1 - How can I tell if H is mourning her and that's the reason for his latest withdrawals?

#2 - How possible is it that the reluctance to turn over the cell phone is simply a matter of stubborness on his part?

#3 - Is it possible that he is going through withdrawal and that is what is making him more withdrawn?

#4 - Since OW told H I called her father again, should I mention it to him that I did this? Not sure why I should, but thinking maybe it might show him that I'm being honest?

I know he's going to be furious when he comes home knowing I called her father yesterday. (She hasn't mentioned yet to me about going to her work - so her boss may not have said anything to her today.

Once again he is back to avoiding my phone calls at work. No reply either from phone or e-mail from him today. He is now almost 20 minutes late coming home from work. It wouldn't surprise me if he is so angry that he doesn't come home tonight.

I asked her how long she had been seeing my H. She said they started talking back in November. And they finally met in February. It was just one of those missing pieces of the puzzle I wanted to know.

Ouch, Leslie:

I'm so sorry that you talked to the OW!!!

She is a liar, liar, liar! You can't believe anything that she says.

She is your enemy.

Unfortunately, if they are in contact, they will go undercover...

Oooh, Leslie..I meant for you to do this sneakily...

Now no more FBI ACTION...

Strictly PLAN A..negotiating the end of the A..

Prepare for PLAN B...

Sometimes I think H is a jekyl and hyde. For example right before we left the house to go to MC I hugged him and his arms actually kinda went around me. Then in MC it was like he couldn't stand my touch on his hand. Now tonight, I hug him and once again his arms go around me.

He doesn't seem so distant tonight. I asked him if there was anything in particular he wanted to do tomorrow and he said not really, so I said what about Ice Skating. I think that took him by surprise. Thinking H will have to hold my hand if we go ice skating at least until I get the hang of it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I then said, If I invite you to go ice skating with me tomorrow will you go? He said yes. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I'm sure he's not going to like the times the rink is open (daylight hours). H prefers to work on his "toys" while there is daylight but we'll see.

Funny but tonight I'm in a calm mood, kinda at peace with myself. Leaving H to be for a bit, then maybe after grandson asleep if H is working in the garage I may go out there for a bit and just do some idle chit chat.

MiMi,

I didn't really mean to talk to her it kinda just advanced to that. I was hoping to just sit there and see if H showed up but she spotted me so I took the bull by the horns and initiated the conversation.

Actually if they are still in contact then they've already been undercover. I've driven past her place several times and his car has never been there.

I used to describe my H..the EXACT same way..

I've been telling you that this is all scripted.

There definitely must be a WH HANDBOOK somewhere that they are reading...

Soon you will be able to identify all of the WH characteristics... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm hoping and praying that they are not in contact but remember contact includes phone contact and she said that she talked to him...

From now on, I would suggest you stay away from her. You don't want to sink to her lowlife level..YICK...

THAT SOUNDS GREAT ABOUT THE ICE-SKATING! HOW FUN!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Mimi...hon you're wrong about no more FBI stuff.

They BOTH KNOW she is wise to their continued contact.

Leslie...girl let things die down for a few days..let dust settle and then hire a pi...that will confirm things.

they both know the heat is on and they will take their affair further underground.

Get MB counseling w/ a professional here...get THEIR opinion if they believe there is more contact or if it is simply withdrawal...but the pi can confirm there is contact or not also. I'd do both.

set a time frame for your heart in plan A. when the steam is beginning to run out...and you can't take it anymore..then begin planning for B.

that's what they do period.

justpeachy,

For now I have to be my own PI. Since things are so unsure around here I am having to hold on to every penny I can get. There may come a day when I have to go to Plan B and I will need the money to move out. Same goes for MB counseling. The MC'g we go to now while not a MB counselor is paid for by insurance other then a $10 co-pay.

I've tried to set a time frame mentally in my mind for staying in Plan A, then poof H will do something to set me off and I'm ready to give up. So for now, I take it day by day.

I agree though that if nothing else my talking to OW again at least let her know (and if she tells H) then he will also know that I'm still watching them.

Okay my homework assignement was to invite H to do something and his was to say Yes.

I asked him this morning if he would like to go Ice Skating today. His reply was, "I don't know". Now granted that's not a No, but almost as good as a No. I then say is it the Ice Skating or doing something? He replies, "I don't know". He didn't even ask "What time or anything else".

This is why I dreaded asking him to do anything. I get tired of being turned down.

I guess he's not going to follow through on his homework assignement.

And to think I got up this morning so full of hopes and it's only 7:43 a.m. and he's managed to dash them already. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />