Sorry for the silly metaphor and I dont mean to belittle the situation—but I can’t help but picture the piñata game. This stage of the FWS brain, reminds me of the blindfolded player who wanders in the wrong direction and starts swinging and swinging. They look so silly making all this fuss—in the wrong direction.

He is making all this fuss about the OW--missing the OW--having feelings for OW, when in reality it is all him missing his "super-me". Him missing the mentor--hero-man he seemed to be when he was with la-la-bimbo-girl. And he is especially confused because he no longer gets the same super-me fix when she is around.

Reality bites.

So, how does he hit the piñata?

Taking off the blindfold is one fast way—but that requires NC and it sounds like it is not yet possible.

For me, the first step came with connecting the dots between my feelings and ME. Recognizing that it was about how I felt about ME in the eyes of OP and not about the OP.

Dare I give advice…. validate his feelings.

“It makes perfect sense that you feel a loss and miss the FEELINGS you had.”

Be sure to leave the focus on how HE FELT when he was with her....putting emphasis on the fact that these feelings are not about her, but are more about how he felt about himself in her eyes. About how he felt about himself. About HIM. The loss he is feeling is the loss of that great image of himself. Its not about the loss of her. It sounds like he needs to be nudged in the right direction.(WHAK! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />)


BTW, he obviously wants to get away from everyone because it sounds like a way not to face the situation. (Is he a conflict avoider or what)

Having to face you means having to face HIMSELF—and the not so good side he has been managing to mask while playing mentor-hero-man to la-la-bimbo-girl.

An emphasis on NC—it is the fastest means of helping him. Try seeing the enormity of a mountainside, while standing on it. It is only at a distance that you can gain true perspective.

oops, I posted when you did and hadn't seen your last post.

Have you read the post that pepperband linked earlier?

The woman who slowly worked back to a relationship with her FWS...she did this by keeping her distance. By making him want it...

If this is where you are, meaning, you are running out of steam. Disregard what I said above--that is only if you have the extra gift energy.

We want you TO STAY IN THE FIGHT, Grape.

I'm optimistic about your marriage...just don't want him to fool you or himself.

Don't want you to ENABLE the affair.

I was warned by Steve Harley that without PROOF of NC then ASSUME CONTACT!!!

I think it's time for a visit to his apartment.

Don't you?

In fact, I think an unannounced visit would even be good.

What about the OW? Do you know where she lives?



Face to face, you do need to say something like this ASAP. However, preface this by saying something to the effect of..
"I love you. I want to work on our marriage. This cannot happen until WE come up with a PLAN of NO CONTACT with the OW for life. She needs to know through a letter that you will not have contact with her for life"...

If he wants to reconcile with you, he will go along with this...

This is LOVING. This is being a LIGHTHOUSE. This is ESSENTIAL in order to prevent the DESTRUCTION of your MARRIAGE.

Sorry..until the fog is lifted and withdrawal is over..withdrawal defined as absolutely NC with her for at least 3 months..until this time, he will remain foggy and it will mostly be about him. You will be doing a lot of the initial marital work.

WOW! Ahuman, thank you for giving me some perspective from the wayward side.

I will try to empathy thing. The pinata thing is so apt. He does start batting around things. One day, it's can we make this work out. The next, it's maybe we should divorce so I can get away from everything.

Should I ask him how he feels about himself now? I like the can't see the forest for the trees/view of the mountain take.

Sorry, at this point, I'm having a hard time saying "Honey, you're so wonderful!"

OW doesn't completely fit the bimbo thing. She's an divorced, mother of three, older engineer (Can you say No people skills?) but works in a lesser position than H. He liked to talk work with her. Part of that is because that's his best type of communication.

Thanks Ahuman. Any other advice?

Check out my post to you. We may have been posting at the same time.

I do know where OW lives. I've thought about an unannounced visit to the apartment. Late night?

H does seem strung out. His blood pressure is really high. He's really stressed. I'm not sure what more he can take.

The doctor gave him a Prozac thing yesterday. How long does that take to kick in and what would it do?

I hope you are right about him, Grape.

But, how can you be sure he is not lying to you?


I don't agree that it is time to talk to him about his feelings.

If this is true Recovery, there should minimal relationship talk early on..just being together is fine.

He is becoming adjusted to the normal, real world again..coming from another planet.

He is the one who keeps bringing up the relationship talk. I have been trying really hard to stay away from it.

Should I try to convince him to spend the night more?

sure....

I may have missed this in your posts.

But during his discussions with you has he explained how they broke up? What did he say to her?

She may have broken up with him.

That's the value of the NC Letter..working on this together as a couple..you will be fully aware of what he has to say and that he has told her that he wants to be with you...

Otherwise, you are left out of it guessing...

Grape - I am so sorry to upset you, but I think you are going to be way more upset if you let him keep stringing you along.


Why not just say, "Get rid of her, including finding a new job since she still works there, and THEN we will talk. If you want dinner, there's a McDonald's two blocks from here. Have A Nice Day."

And then stay dark until he gives you a NC letter to send and has gotten a new job.

I still think that he and OW had some kind of falling-out so he is just checking to make sure you're still around as his back-up in case it doesn't work out with her.

Again, I am so sorry to upset you - but better me than him!
Mulan

GG,
I see hope for your M...having said that you know as long as he has ANY contact w/ OW you can't even begin recovery. Your situation reminds me of MywifeIlove's situation a little. They were separated...kind of on a bad note...LB empty on both parts he wasn't in official plan B (i don't think) but not having contact. While they were separated he transitioned back to plan A w/ advice from SH...his battery had been recharged and wanted positive interactions w/ WW. It was working beautifully...she was drawn to him and separating herself from OM...almost. It got to the point where she was comfortably back on the fence. He had to return to plan B but this time gave her a lot to think about. He hasn't been posting much so I'm not sure how its going.

My WH has recently started to turn around. I spoke w/ SH he said its up to WH to come up w/ a plan. If I list it out it comes off as a list of demands. The only thing I told WH was if he was in contact w/ OW I would not have contact w/him. It was his choice to end the contact. He did it by calling her and offered to put it in writing. Which he did and I sent and f/u with a call to OWH. Now we are trying to build + feelings for one another. I have to remember to back off and not push. We are not talking R issues right now. IF HE brings it up I intend to say "I have been hurt by all this, I love you but I'm afraid of being hurt more...what will you do to keep me safe?"

He has to be the one to stick to the NC, I will certainly help him...I think part of his ego needs to protect me/our family having him come up with a plan will help him do that rather than me saying MUST do X,Y and Z.

Just my thoughts.

So, here we are...lovely day. H a bit snarly on the phone in the am. He's going to the docs for some blood tests We mutually agree not to meet for lunch but he takes me over to pick up DS's car. Later, he comes over around 6.

So, we sit on the deck on this lovely summer night. My garden is beautiful. The air is soft and warm. The beer is good. DD is invited to a friend's, so we go out to dinner. He asked to take me out to dinner.

We walk up to the local Mexican place for cervezas and food. He kisses me on the street coming home. We talk to the neighbors. DD is home but decides to sit on the trampoline and watch a movie on the portable DVD player. H and I sit hand in hand.

Suddenly, he turns to me. Then he tells me that on his way from the doctor's this morning, he stopped by my lawyer's and signed the divorce papers.

I am dumbstruck. I am keening...keening...crying my heart out on the deck.

I just don't understand. FCH thinks that if he can't develope feelings for me within a week they never will. Mind you, he stopped seeing OW out of work perhaps a month ago. He started taking Prozac yesterday.

He tried to defend his decision. I don't get it.

My last post was not completely coherent. I am a little calmer now but can't sleep. I suppose I should have guessed it was coming.

After H told me, he kept trying to justify his decision. I mean really, he has been attempting to work up feelings for me for a whole week. He just started meds. His counselor is out-of-town. But what's important to him right now is that he can't sleep. Obviously, I'm the reason he can't sleep. The only answer is to secretly sign the divorce papers. He takes me out to dinner. When we get home, he drops the bomb with DD 20 feet away.

I feel so badly for my dearest daughter. I pulled into myself and forgot about her completely. Well, I'm sure the whole neighborhood knows. I was crying beyond crying. More like loud, gutteral noises. H made me go inside to attempt to talk with me.

Meanwhile, DD was left to view the carnage. Her mother crying uncontrollably. Her parents arguing. However, I am so proud of her.

DD went to her secret box and found the phone number of our good friend K. K, a friend of ODS, has been DD's emotional support since DDay. Her parents divorced badly while she was in high school and she has been the biggest help to DD. DD called her and said she was scared and needed a place to go. K jumped in her car and drove 50 miles to help. What a wonderful person! K arrived quickly and comforted both of us. She's asleep with DD in the spare room.

I am emotionally drained. It's like D-month all over again.

OMG !

I bet you cant sleep!!! I am so sorry.

I really sympathize with your daughter, too. But don’t feel bad about losing it in front of her. You are certainly human and there is no harm is showing pain over the loss of a M!! I question whether it would be a worse lesson to show no emotion over such an event.

I am just some stranger in cyberspace—on the other side of the planet no less.

But you appear in your posts to be one fantastic lady—and you will make it through this!

This is where you keep hold of all that good stuff you built and preserved during Plan B. The strong you, independent of H. This is where you remember that in that distance you saw a happy-satisfied YOU. The you who had managed a household, held parties, visited with friends, enjoyed your job, was a strong Mom—who stuck it out and got it done when no one else did.

THEN….let him own his decision….for now.

Did he say he signed the papers, because he wants away from it all? Because he wants a “fresh start”? Did you manage to hear is reasoning through your pain?

(((GG)))
OMG! I hope you were able to get some rest. It was selfish and cruel to pull you in and then do this. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> I want to come kick his azz! Maybe you should go really DARK for a while and recoup...take care of you and DD...let him live with his choice. You know you can thrive without his mess.

I'm glad DD had someone to reach out to help the both of you. That friend is a treasure.

(((GG and GG's DD))) I'll say an extra prayer for you today and even one for your idiot CH.

Oh, Grape. I am so sad for you and your family.

As you know, I was "smelling the rat".

He seemed like my H was at one point..when he wasn't serious..at a point when he was supposedly TRYING to convince himself that he could "do the right thing"...

What I want to add, Grape, is this: This is all about the OW and him wanting to be with her..sad to say...

I don't want him to have convinced you that it is not about her. That was his plan.

It's like setting you up to fail..."I'll try for a week (knowing it won't work) then I can convince myself that I am doing the right thing." They want to come out smelling like roses rather than the you know what that they live in and smell like...

I also would say to make it clear to him that you will not be his friend.

I would be completely DARK with him. I think your kids will be able to handle you having absolutely NC with him...NO BEING NICE....or PLAYING NICE.

(((GG & GG's DD)))

I don't believe that I ever posted to you before but I had to tell you that I'm sadden for what you and DD are experiencing right now. I will keep you in my prayers. It makes me so angry that he would get your DD hopes up when knowing all along he had no intentions of making it work. I'm with ChaCha, I'll help her come kick his azz.

God Bless,
Pepsi

Grape - have you read the Passive/Aggressive threads a few of us have going right now? There's a link to one of them in my sig and RiverTam's thread is near the top of GQII right now.

His actions this week - setting you up, letting you think things were getting better, and then dropping the D-bomb on you - were pure deceipt and manipulation. They were P/A tactics at their best. It was unspeakably selfish and cruel of him to do this, but unfortunately it's perfectly typical of someone who is P/A.

I'm so sorry this has happened to you. Like Mimi, I felt sure something wasn't right here. Please read that thread and let us know if it hits a nerve.
Mulan

I think Grape's WH sounds aggressive rather than passive-aggressive...straight on..directly and purposefully conniving and deceitful.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />