213 thats the Los Angles are code.

Any way blood is thicker then water. If her mom is taking that stance there is nothing you can really do. I would pose a couple of questions to her though

How would you feel if your H was doing this?

What would her H think if she was acting this way?

How many men do you know that want to be "friends" with a married woman.

I would ask her if there is nothing going on why does she need another cell phone?

Finally I would ask her if you are not going to be part of the solution can you please at least not be part of the problem.

Regarding you DD. Good for you. Do not let them get hurt more then they already are. You need to be a good father to them and it sounds like you are. I find joy in my kids when I am down. They are my legacy and I refuse to screw them up.

Thanks intention

everybody is been great here.

when you don't see the light at the end of the tunel you
lose hope, without hope it's hard to continue.

Thanks YOH your alright I needed this, I will try to talk to her father, her parents are very nice people, but she is make me look like an obsessive husband that is invading her privacy.
they do want to believe that she wouldn't do such a thing,so it's going to be tough.

Re-read your own thread for good support, Joe...

"it hurts I know I need to keep doing it" you've gone through this before...why do you need to say "Hi, Babe" in the morning? Why is that a need for you? You are doing something you are holding resentment for...you aren't getting the response you want...then please do not take the action, make the choice, which will create resentment in you.

You can nod hello. You can wave. You can not acknowledge the morning or your WW. You have choices. You can say, "Good morning, Alien...when is my wife coming back?" with a smile and a kiss...

Do not limit yourself...be true to yourself and your marriage.

You can vent all you want...as long as you learn from it. Look at what is giving you a lot of pain...find your half of it...find out why it is...don't accept that it would be everyone's...it is yours. Know it intricately...emotions are information to you about your own beliefs...important...to live from emotions is to decide from information about your beliefs second-hand. To run from emotions by changing how you live doesn't make any sense, does it?

So commit to no self-betrayal...speak only O&H statements about yourself...acknowledge your WW out of respect or not at all...know your choice and power. I believe you're allowing the information to overwhelm you (which happens...we're human) and you have been response-based for a very long time...you want very much to break this cycle of choosing your actions from possible responses...you want to change this reactive life...and you can!

"Is daddy gone yet?"

Why did this hurt? I don't understand the context...help me out, please.

No wonder your love bank is bleeding out...look at what you're choosing to believe:

"unless she needs something she doesn’t talk to me."
"I feel so unappreciated so unwelcome she only needs me for her financial support,"
"And she doesn’t even say thank you anymore."
"I know she is an alien but even an alien will appreciate the good in people."
"She knows I’m hurting her indifference is killing me."

Get this straight now, Joe...you are killing you. No question. Your DJs stab you as much as they stab her...Plan A isn't being fake, isn't manipulating your spouse to fill your needs or about being chosen...it is about TRUE change...and really looking at what beliefs you operate from...

You operate from judgment and expectation. You are riddled with resentment...and you claim common permission...hey, you're human...you can resent, become bitter, and continue to stab yourself and point to someone else doing it. You've got a great scapegoat right there...a WW! Oh! Joy...

Now...I'm angry right now. Humans in pain go to their youngest inner child...know this...know that DJs come from our inner child...and you are an adult male with a child to father and parent...as well as your inner child. Love does require giving to get, tit for tat; Love doesn't have expectations (premeditated resentments), bitterness or entitlement...you can vent...you can state your thoughts, feelings and beliefs...PLEASE read what you vent and learn how dangerous you are to yourself and others.

Know this. Your marriage depends on you right now...there's not fair or unfair at play...you are sabotaging you and your goal...actively...

If you want to end the marriage and go, you have that right as a BS. Please choose though...you stated you wanted your marriage...and you were willing to do what it takes to get to one that thrives...many steps away from where you are now...a goal requiring faith, loving anyway, and a lot of hard work.

Show me the work, Joe...show me how much you understand Disrespectful Judgments...how you can identify them in others and in yourself...get to those DJ beliefs...and your pain will lessen by half.

I promise you. You can eliminate half your pain--the half you are causing yourself.

You can do a genuine Plan A being authentic...knowing where you need to change your beliefs...and doing a lot of self-care...

Do you see where your life premise is that you earn love? That is wrecking your life, Joe. Why not examine that belief in light of your adult experiences and replace it?

Look at your first wish-question...because you're giving, you are hurting because you aren't getting...

Do you say that to your son? Do you say, "Hey! Where's the love from you? I'm giving you all this...what am I getting?" I know you don't.

I use extreme examples. I am working on a lot myself...I was an extreme person. I hope the more moderate I become, the more moderate examples I can think of...

Seems like in your wish-questions, you are uncovering some really harmful beliefs in yourself...DJs...assumptions and mindreading of your WW...which negates respect and separateness...shoots down equality.

Your vent is an awesome example of this thinking...I'm not attacking you at all..I'm applauding your honesty and generosity in sharing them...

and showing how toxic they are. They will cut off your Plan A at the knees...and every relationship you have in your life...seeing them, as they are, is important...

Can you see where each question is a DJ...and is fear-based?

LA

All WS tell their family and friends that their BS is obsessive and nuts...just seeing stuff wrong...your WW is no different.

In their own minds, they have to do this...see you in this light...otherwise, how could they continue to justify their A?

Thank you for not participating in the deception. Have you heard anything further from the pastor?

(((((Joe)))))

Hope does reside in the Lord...I promise...when it gets too hard, tell yourself..."Self? Just 'cuz I can't see the end of the tunnel, doesn't mean it isn't there."

LA

Thanks LA
I always apreciate your input you always hit the spot.
I guess I'm not getting it am I.

I just felt good about venting my anger and emotions here
because I was about to vent it on her, that would have been
bad.
I do want to save my marriage, I still love my wife,
I know I need to separate myself from her, but we have been
One for more then 13 years it's tough.
I need to find my old circle of friends, the only problem
is a lot of them are from the oposite sex.
actualy one of them lives near by and my wife hates her.
she always thought I had a thing for her.

anyway I'm not going to do anithing stupid.
I didn't call her today, she called asking about the pool inspection.
then she called and asked me if i have just called, I told her no but I'm on my way home.
when I got home I didn't talk to her I went downstairs to
fix dinner for me and the kids she had to go to bunco tonight.
she came downstairs and started talking to me about stupid stuff, she was very pleasent, I didn't look at her I did answer her very politely though.
it's hard not to look at her my wife is drop dead gorgeous woman.

I don't know if I hit a nerve or something.
maybe this is a good thing I hope.

Joe,

I know you need to vent here...it helps...I hope you know that you are getting it...takes time...and what you can do after you vent is go back and see what you can learn about yourself from the vent...

that's all...

And no, you can make new male friends...keep an anger journal...

I know being two complete and separate people is difficult...totally...I was the love addict, darlin'...I KNOW!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I have no expectation of you doing anything perfectly...I'm for you in the long haul...where you truly change your beliefs...which changes you...

You are staying respectful...wear that, know that...and do not self-betray.

You are doing this...you are doing great...better days and worse days...you're still in it...know that.

Uhm, what's bonco night?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA

I'm sorry bunco night it's a girl get together night it's a card game, I found out last night that it was canceled
and they had dinner instead, I have a good belief she was with OM.

and she is going to be with him today during his break too.
she called me last night on her way home I asked her why it ended so early she said oh it was canceled and she forgot
to tell me that they went to dinner instead.
I didn't by it. when she came home I ignored her bable,I don't think I heard a word she said.
should I face her with the fact that I think she was with OM or it will be another lost battle?

this morning I broke down crying in front of my DD she asked me what's wrong daddy I told her nothing baby I just hurt myself she said wher you hurting I pointed to my chest
she said oh daddy that's your heart.
I shouldn't have done that, but I couldn't help myself.
WW didn't see me cry thanks GOD.

I hope DD wont tell her.

this morning I ignored WW again didn't say a word to her,
I made the kids breakfast, put their shoes on, give them a hug goodby and left without WW knowing, usualy I go upstairs ask her if she needed cash say goodby, not today
I just didn't feel like it.
she just called me when I was writing this last sentence
asking me if i had made a deposit today because she had a chek from her friend on top of my deposit stack.
she never calls me.

No. Ignoring is not going to work. Have you read up on Plan A? It is about being a great spouse, someone she wants to be with. Hang in there. We'll help you through this.

Thanks intention.

It seemes that the more I push the more she pulls away
and when I pull away she tries to talk to me.

I guess I need to find the ballance in this.

Pick your plan, Joe...Plan A doesn't involve ignoring...to my way of thinking. A 180 doesn't end an affair...Plan B is after Plan A...what other plan are you thinking of? Did you get Surviving and Affair by Dr. Harley and read it? How about Torn Asunder?

It involves O&H statements..."I believe you were with OM last night. I am hurting from my own fear and distrust."

I realize you can't do these statements when you're bound up in fear...and that ignoring feels like protection.

How do you know she will be with him on his break today? Who haven't you exposed to? Call the pastor right now...tell him you are hurting, that contact continues as long as she volunteers...tell him your marriage is suffering and you are suffering.

Did you find his wife's name and contact her yet? Did you expose to her bunco ladies? Does the church have a website that publishes the names of its employees?

There are resources for you, Joe. You are in a place we know and we hurt...just like you do. What you feel is yours...your pain, your anger...your choices in what to do.

I don't think crying in front of your WW violates anything. I think if it replaces O&H statements, then it is unwise; promotes assumptions and mindreading.

Speak of your commitment to save the marriage...emphasize this is her choice...and that choosing no contact for life is what the books say...what you believe.

If you have to write down your truths...your thoughts, feelings and beliefs...so that you can practice stating them...then please do so.

Self-care...attention, support and understanding...give those to yourself...acceptance...you're in a really tough place...if you can think of this, at times, as if your WW had a debilitating illness...would you stand by her? What if A's are like debilitating mental illness...doesn't absolve anything...just gives you a guideline for you to get through the pain to where you have a plan. A real plan.

LA

Thanks LA

I am in plan A but I don't think I get it yet the pain and fear is overwhelming at this time.
I just need to get myself in high gear and try to disconnect myself from WW and her abuse, in the same time
be kind and respectful and happy, it's tough.
I will get the books you recomended and a few others today,
their is a barns and nobel store next to my work.

how can I act happy when I'm in this state of mind.

The pastor should have nuked the OM immediately.

Hi pariah
since I don't have physical evidence he have to do his own
investigation.

oh LA or anybody what does O&H means?

Openness and Honesty...

O&H

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA

Maybe time for an in-person visit...What do you think?

Can you do an internet search to find out if they have the "Alienation of Affection" civil law in your state?

Hey, it even has Alien in the TITLE!

LA

Hi again

I just got the book love must be tough by James Dobson

Interesting concept may be I should sit her down or write her a letter putting boundaries
To her behavior.
I know I’m in plan A I’m thinking of giving her this letter or telling her all this

NEED SOME INPUTS AND OPINIONS PLEASE

Dear WW

When we got married I did not force your hand and you did not force mine into it
We both chose each other as husband and wife.

We never fought never argued we always respected each other, I took care
Of everything since the day we moved in together, and still do till this day.

We started growing apart a few years after DD was born. GOD knows I tried
To get through to you but I did everything wrong, I didn’t know at the time.
I begged pleaded, cried, told you how much you meant to me and how much I
Loved you, but all this made you lose your respect for me, made you feel more trapped
And pushed you further away. And this was way before OM came into the picture.
I’m sorry.
I’m sorry for my part of paving the road to you’re A

I’m not sorry for doing whatever it took to uncover it.

You need to know that the A must end it’s destroying our family, your losing friends
Over it and you will lose more friends.

The A is your choice I will not take any blame for it all the blame and guilt should be on your shoulders. And you’re the only one that could stop it before anything bad happens.

I know the PA is still going on, I know you’re wasting the family’s money to support the A and in my opinion this is wrong.

You need to know that every time you’re with OM I hurt.
The pain is unbearable, you could not imagine how hurtful it is to see the person you love, lose her heart to a fantasy that is not real.
You are the best thing that ever happened to me in my life and I’m losing you for a fantasy.

Well I’ve been doing some soul searching lately, and I think I’m done being a doormat
I’m done being disrespected,
You told me you didn’t want divorce, but you’re not willing to give up the OM
You keep telling me he is your best friend, and that the PA is not going on anymore
It’s only an EA.
Well I know that the PA is still going on I know every time you have been together

Physically and I can not tolerate that anymore, it hurts way beyond belief, and I know hurt
I’ve been hurt too many times in my life; nothing even comes close to what I’m feeling now.

I’ve always been dedicated to our family to our marriage and to you.
I still am and I will do what ever it takes to save our family our marriage
And our way of life.

I’m will make our house a happy home a sanctuary for us and for the kids.

A place where love rules a place where kids can play without fear of being yelled at or judged, a place for you and me, you keep telling me it wont be the same, of course it wont be the same look where our actions led us, it should and will be better, I promise you that
And you know I can keep a promise.

I will give you some time to think but you need to decide between your families
Or your fantasy, knowing that the fantasy will not last, and the OM will not be always
They’re for you but your family will.

I still love you with all my heart.

I told her a while back " you know baby those feelings will go away, and you are living in a fantasy world, when you are with OM their is no kids no house payment no bills,so you see it's not real, is he going to leave his wife and kids and be with you?" I don't know she said.
so I asked her, "so wher is this going then? I think you should stop before it's too late".No answer.

should I stop telling her these thing would anything get through the fog?
am I waisting my breath?