Hi L2S,

Well one thing is for certain - there can be NO recovery until he's admitted the A's and starts to address the problems. If the only song he's got is "It didnt happen, none of them did", then you really dont need to hear anything else from him. He does not get a vote in your decision to divorce him. You can do it no matter what he says.

Sure, you could go back to THAT marriage. At least 4 affairs that you know of... you can go back, you can choose to believe him. But you KNOW the truth, can you really imagine living with him, sweeping all of this under the carpet, pretending none of this ever happened? Till #5... #6

You keep asking why, but I think you answered your own questions. He's smooth, he's a liar and he wants women. Not marriage material.

I usually try not to post when all I've got to say is "leave the bum!" but you seem like you needed another point of view. It doesnt look good from this side of the screen. You're only setting yourself up for a repeat performance if you go back to him. You've got a better chance at a sucessful divorce now than you would in 10 years, right? Do you want to start over now or later?

Nothing about his remarks sound like something a good (or potentially good) H would say... sounds like something a real player would say...

Please take care - Dru

Thanks for the reality check.

I can only imagine what someone else reading my posts must think about my intelligence level! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> He is a master manipulator. He even got the OW to continue the R w/him when clearly she was trying to break it off until we were D'd so she could feel better about herself. She didn't want me to be able to say that she was the reason for the D.

The thing is that he doesn't know WHAT I know and doesn't know HOW I know what I know. The stuff that I know he's done probably isn't any worse than what many WS's do during an A but he has cheated multiple times.

With everything in me I know that if I went back it would only be a matter of time before things got bad again and he would be up to his old tricks IF they ever even stopped.

I want very much to go back to preA time and make everything right. That's impossible. He keeps telling me that he'll do whatever is necessary to regain my trust and love if I'll just give him a chance. BUT, he won't even be honest about the affairs.

So, I am trying really hard not to push and just allow God to work in the situation. The M is over; D is imminent. Waiting on attorney and final document for him to sign. He goes back and forth on what he's going to do; sign or not.

Just pray for me for God's peace and guidance.

...and a serial cheater. No one needs that. He's going to have to have a HUGE awakening before he REALLY changes, you know that. Right now he's just trying to work ya. He's not had any major life revelations, he's not been to IC, he's not found God... he just wants what he wants. Just like a kid.

You will find that once you get away from that insanity, you'll wonder how you lived that way for so long. D is always hard and there is always pain, but when you remove yourself from such master-manipulation you really get your sanity back.

About 6mo after my d and final contact with exH, I realized that my life was so much nicer... no one to yell at me, no playing detective, no walking on eggshells... I realized just how stiffeled I had really become.

I dont know your entire situation, but I get this feeling about you, too. When it's all over AND he's no longer yanking your chain (cause if that continues after the D, you really havent escaped), you'll feel better, too. He's no prize, is he? Doesnt seem so, from this side of the screen. Divorced is much better than living with such nonsense. I made friends, took classes, had some fun, developed some hobbies and did remarry. Please take good care of yourself - Dru

Dru =
You're right. He hasn't changed. He "SAYS" all the right things but there's no action behind the talk. There's no move to get back into church. There's no move to remove himself from the 2nd EX and the OW; OWs family calls him about stuff and he responds. He still talks to the OW; I've seen the cell bill that he doesn't know I've seen.

Bottom line - I have feelings for him but I do believe you are right. When it's over and I can remove myself from the chaos I will start to heal and let go of the "junk". He has so much chaos in his life that I can't deal with very well.

I truly believe I'll be much happier and at peace and I truly believe there will eventually be someone else in my life.

Thanks for the reminder that he really hasn't been a prize. What started out as a fairytale romance for me has ended up being my worst nightmare. No, he really isn't marriage material. He COULD be but he has chosen not to.

I often think too that even IF we were able to salvage the marriage, a small part of me would always resent the infidelity. I would always resent that he took the magic away. There's a Christian song with a line in it: "when the sacred is torn from life and we survive". That phrase really says it all to me about adultery. It takes the sacred away from the marriage and you're left to always doubt, always wonder, always, always, always.

So, waiting on the attorney. Heart hurts. Always on the verge of tears. But, I will survive.

What a horse's behind!!!!!!
Had a fight with STBXH over, what else, money!!!

He says that it's all about a dollar to me. Yet, he says he doesn't want to pay me child support and he doesn't want me to keep my engagement ring.

I put on paper the amount of money we've made in the time that we've been married. I made 2/3 and he made 1/3. But, he doesn't want me to have the ring b/c our marriage was based on a lie (my early teeenage years folly that I wasn't honest about). He has waffled over this for the last 2 years. When he's trying to get me to say we'll work on it he's dirt and I'm the best thing that ever happened to him and I can have it all. He's going to commit suicide or move away b/c he can't handle thought of seeing me w/someone else.

But, let things not go his way and I'm cursed like a sailor, the biggest B in the world, a slut and he will make my life H*LL if I keep the ring. He'll make me regret the day I ever saw that ring.

Same thing w/child support. He pushed the adoption (my EXH moved away and never looked back). Says I told him if we ever divorced I wouldn't ask for child support. To me it's the principle of the thing now. I have to find another house and the area I need to be in for my D to go to the school where she has always gone is expensive even for older neighborhoods. It may be considered cheap based on where some of you live but, to me, it's expensive for a modest house. So, I have to pack all my stuff and find somewhere else; start all over. He's keeping all the major stuff.

Child spt - I've gone down from $365/month to $200/month and he's still whining about that. He's got to pay for this and that. He's such a jerk. He's trying to make me feel bad that he has to pay for insurance and may have to give up life insurance, etc. But, he wasn't worried about that when he was cheating. Wasn't worried when he was trying to be a big shot in the eyes of the OW and her family.

He says he's talked to an attorney who says he should get the ring back. My attorney and others I've talked to say I keep the ring.

What do you all think about the ring and about child support? Do I need to give him the ring and say don't worry about child support?

Hey, L2S! What would you end up doing with the ring, if you were to keep it? Would it be for sentimental value? If that is the reason, I would return it. It would be a small price to pay, to move on with your life.

And I don't have the answer to the child support question. Personally for me, I didn't want anything from him, except for my freedom, of him and his lifestyle. But I also had the support of my parents, which I know there are many who do not have that as an option.

What is the situation with your parents, L2S? You may have told me this before, but I don't remember. If they are good parents, maybe you should give them a call.

My dad died when I was 10. My mom is in a nursing home.

I'm okay financially but I have that "what if I..." in the back of my mind. My daughter is going to need braces. She's starting high school.

I told him tonight that if he wanted the ring he could have it if he gave me the $. I just wanted to see what he would say. I planned to put it up and give it to my D at some point, perhaps in another setting or as a necklace.

I can't understand him wanting it back except for the $ it cost him. As for child support, early on I had no intention of asking for CS until I found out what he had been doing and how he had been telling everyone that he was hanging onto me for $ and insurance. A business associate of his was overheard asking my WH why we weren't divorced yet. His response was "It's not costing me anything". On the tapes I had going I heard all kinds of stuff like that. So, in one respect I guess it is a bit vindictive to say I want CS. On the other hand, I was receiving >$500/month in CS from my EXH. He was the one that pushed the adoption.

He waffles back and forth. Today he curses me out and tomorrow he'll say he's sorry and he'll sell everything and give me the $ b/c I deserve it for how I've lived versus the $ I've made and for the H*LL he's put me through. The next day, he'll be back to cursing and threatening.

I guess I'm just angry at how he has treated me in front of everyone and I was so worried about him and how he would manage. He was out there having a grand old time at my expense (literally - I left my $ in joint account all this time). Now, he tells me it's all about $ to me. That's how I see it where he's concerned.

I think that if he pushed for the adoption, and that ended the CS you were getting from your XH, than this would mean that he had planned to take responsibility for your daughter. And once an adoption takes place, I don't think it can be undone, because of a divorce.

I don't think you're being vindictive at all. You are still hurting by the ugly way you were treated. And rightfully so. He was (is) definately at the opposite end of the spectrum from you. You care for people, and try to help, while he, is out there, boasting about his "free ride"! I get angry by this, just as I type!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

And the one thing I can't seem to get out of my mind, concerning your relationship with him, was the physical abuse you endured. Even if it was long ago, you have to know that the potential for it will always be there. He proved long ago, that he IS capable of that.

You are doing right by your daughter and yourself, by making this choice to leave. You deserve to have a healthy life with your daughter. He is toxic waste, and deserves whatever outcome he has created for himself!

You are also sending your daughter the right messege with this, by making this choice. This is telling her that there are certain behaviors in life that are just NOT acceptable, under ANY circumstances!

Don't torture yourself with this, L2S. Focus on the good that will come of this, and the things your daughter will learn. Focus on the fact that you are doing the right thing for her. You're doing GREAT! And keep going to your church! Don't take his call on Sunday. You know the drill with Sundays. If you must, just tape record your usual response to him, on your answering machine, just to spare your breath! Because Life really IS too short, to be wasting energy in the wrong places. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

(((L2S))) You're a good person, and someone, someday, will be very lucky to know you! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Jen

Keep your ring, and get child support. That is only fair.

Jen, Believer,
I just posted but lost the post!! Oh well.

I intend to keep the ring and get CS. My WH is just being his typical jerky self. My niece puts it well: To her, my H is just a cocky, self-absorbed little jerk. To me, he's larger than life. To me, her husband is just a selfish nut; to her, larger than life. He is as big as he is to me b/c I allow it.

I really think that today's episode was just God's way of saying "Girl, keep moving on". I just needed a reminder; needed a dose of reality.

Thank you God for today's reality check. I'll probably require another one tomorrow.

(((L2S))) It will be ok! We're here for ya'! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

So, today he calls and apologizes for all the nasty things he said yesterday. Go figure.

His reason: I make him SO mad. He loves me SO much and wants to make things right SO much and he knows he's losing the best thing in his life (me). He's SO angry w/himself b/c of what he has done.

Adultery is bad stuff. Sad thing is that he is still lying about everything that I know he has done. He thinks that telling me the taped conversations were just a set-up makes me believe him. So, the conversation about their first kiss and first sexual encounter was for my benefit?

He has burned the bridge that separated us. There's no going back. His A w/her made that impossible. I don't know what's going on w/her if anything but it doesn't matter. I keep telling him it's over. I need to end the madness but I'm having a hard time w/totally letting go. We both are having trouble with that.

Tomorrow's father's day and that will be hard. I feel the need to see him; have a hard time thinking of him alone but that will tick my family off. So, tightrope walking for me tomorrow.

You keep the ring.....

And he should have to pay the full amount of mandated support because it is to support the child. Not you.

Bear in mind, I haven't read all four pages but that is my opinion.

KEEP THE RING AND LET THE COURTS DETERMINE WHAT HE PAYS IN CHILD SUPPORT....your daughter deserves that and you have no right to let someone not pay it. that money is for her...

Cinderalla and Nikko,
He has told me point blank that if I keep the ring he'll make my life H*ll. He already has so that's no threat.

As for child support, I'm okay financially thanks to God. He keeps telling me that he will sell stuff and give me the extra money. I know he won't. I know he's just saying everything he can think of saying to get me to change my mind. He's losing his medical/dental insurance and his cash cow when I go.

He's doing what he can to make me back down.

Some family members have said don't take the child support b/c that gives him a right to be in my life and continue trying to make me miserable. My guess though is that as soon as he signs the papers he'll leave me alone. He apparently has plenty of women willing to occupy his time. He'll be just fine.

Even today he's telling me how much he loves me and misses me. But, after lunch, he accused me of running his f'ing (his word) father's day b/c I didn't invite him to lunch w/my family. My family can't stand him b/c of what he's done to me. He can't stand my family either but, to try and make me feel bad, he acted mad b/c I didn't invite him.

My D and I went to house after lunch and gave him present and cards. He proceeded to tell me that I was dressed like a sl*t b/c I had on an almost sleeveless shirt w/cap type sleeves and it was v necked. Everyone else told me that I looked nice. He just can't stand it b/c I went to church and the guy he accused me of was there.

I prayed for God's guidance and peace in church this morning. His actions all day just confirm to me that I'm doing the right thing by filing. I will call the attorney in the morning and ask him if the papers are ready for signature.

Thanks for listening. Hope everyone is having a wonderful day.

Have the child support set up through your state's collection system so you don't have to depend on him to send it or give it to you. And, then, if he messes up, they can more easily go after him.

You know, I once told my x that I had a feeling that I did nothing right in his eyes - not even breathe right.

His response was that I was right - and he wished I wouldn't.

I asked what he meant and he said he wished I didn't breathe.

Another time, I told him that I thought his goal in life was to make my life he11. He told me I was right.

Today, after lots of years (almost 11 since he moved out), and family therapy since March 2005, we have a better relationship than we have had in 14 or 15 years. (But I am still glad I don't have to deal w/ him every day.)

Hold on. Hold on tight. (Especially to God.) Today does not determine the course of your life. Today's threats are not necessarily what the end results will be.

They can be pretty pathetic!

When WH had first A in our first year of marriage (married 9 now - won't see 10) he promised that he would never do that again. Said if things got bad he would D me first. I told him then that if it happened again it was over.

Well, fast forward 8 years and I've been told that he has been messing with 4 women. He fell in love w/the last one; his words on tape he didn't know was running.

Anyway, he's now in a catch 22 situation. If he's honest w/me about everything that he has done, it's over. If he lies to me and tells me nothing happened and we work things out AND in the future I find out that he lied, it would be over. So, he has painted himself into a corner that he can't get out of.

He found the tape I had at our house (I moved out) and has tried to convince me that he knew it was there all the time. That's a lie b/c I would not have found him at the out-of-town hotel if the tape was a joke; I would have gone to where they said they were going only to find that I had been sent on a wild goose chase.

So, tomorrow I call the attorney and move forward. God has brought me through a lot of bad times in my life. He has never abandoned me and never let me down. I know that He will get me through this as well.

I will survive and I will move on. I am incredibly hurt by all this and wish every second that he had not made the choice to have another A, but he did. He blames my absence for the A. That's just an excuse. I did not make him break our vows. There's nothing that I did that made him do the things that he has done.

I wish we could turn the clock back but we can't. He was very blatant w/the A. He did it in front of people that I know including a brother and two cousins plus his two grown kids (20 and 21).

I know that I'm doing the right thing.
I know that things have gone too far to repair.
I know that it won't hurt forever.
I know that we need closure in order to move on w/our lives.
I know that my D deserves a home and more peace in her life.

I know all this but it still hurts deeply and the tears are always threatening to spill down my cheeks. I put so much faith in him. I really thought that he was "the one"; my soul mate, my mate for life, my perfect partner, my best friend.

But soul mates and best friends don't cheat, they don't curse you out, they don't threaten, they don't attack you physically, they don't demean you, they don't hold/use your past against you, they don't take advantage of you and use you and put you last.

So, tomorrow I take the next step. One step closer to ending what I thought was the most beautiful relationship that I could ever have imagined.

I hope you will ask for child support. Your daughter deserves that.

You deserve to have the ring also, but that is your choice to make.

All,
I need opinions about joint checking account.

Background factors:
1) Separated x 2.4 years
2) Preliminary divorce papers obtained
3) WH is refinancing our home(his before our M) to get $ to buy me out
4) I am the one who moved out and have lived w/family member who would not take $ for staying there
5) I am debt free other than car insurance, life insurance, general living expenses
6) I make more than twice what my WH makes; one of the reasons he told others he was not pushing for D

I've been told by a reliable source that he is stashing cash from side jobs. He has also been slipping money to his grown kids. All I make goes into our joint checking account and has been since we separated.

I stopped my largest paycheck (I have a side job) from going into our joint account in April but ended up putting the $ in our account b/c he raised such a ruckous about it.

In May I put in an amount equal to what he put in.

Here's the question:

Is what I did right? We are going to split the $ in the account 50/50. The majority of the bills being paid from it are his: household expenses for a place that I'm not living in.

He says that a judge would tear me up over that. He says it's all about a dollar to me. My way of thinking is that it's all about a dollar to HIM. He's the one with all the bills but expects me to keep putting my full check in the account.

Okay...

What do you all think? Should I put the rest of my paycheck in the bank or am I right in only putting in a match to what he has deposited?

Any opinions on this? I really don't want to do the wrong thing regardless of what he has done.