Hi MDC,

Just to let you know, many a OW's have claimed pregnancy, and you know what? They were lying <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />. Go figure.

He's hurt and angry and lashing out. I'd give him about 10% credibilty at best. You knew there was an A, you knew he was at your house, he knew you knew these things and poked you where it'd hurt.

It's hardly ever as bad as the BS thinks... OM is dropping bombs hoping to hit something. He did. Please dont react.

And many a BS has thrown their bedsets to the curb... sounds ok to me, but you didnt need OM to confirm that.

If OMW's really filed for D, dont forward his email to her. Maybe forward it to his mother?

It's a very well known fact here at MB - Recovery IS harder than Divorce. But payoff is higher. Please take care of yourself and hang tuff! - Dru

Dru - good point.



SLOWLY coming around to it not mattering as much. This is just another part of the psychotic A-world. Add it to the pile, right?

Yes as a man he knew exactly where and how to hit me. And he nailed me right between the eyes. I will not react. Saving it all for MB. His letter is already humorous to me.

For example he says "...looking to discuss this with you or BH in an intelligent, civilized way is going to be impossible."

Like there can be an adult, Kumbyah ending to this.

That IS funny. Good gosh! I cant imagine how that discussion would go. What a freak!


Well, it's part of recovery. If you had gone straight to D you could have skipped all of this. But you have kids, you see hope in your W, so Recovery it is. Recovery is hard. Take the high road, always!

Hang tuff! - Dru

Thanks Dru.

Another gem. Curious - is it normal for an OM to flip out like this??


VERY hard not to respond to some of this, MB style. REALLY just want to send him a link to this forum and ask him to post. He's the kind that will be drawn in immediately from the first response to post.

Good grief MDC...I hope you're not still getting new messages or conversations from this twit.


Translation: I still want to be involved. I want to have the last word.


Translation: I want to end things on my term, and continue to interfer in my marriage. Or, I want to interfere in your marriage to help make things right.


Translation: I can't get my way, so you're either stupid for not letting me get what I want, or heartless for not letting me interfere in your marriage anymore.

He is right....if he'd never entered into an affair with your wife, it would have been over a month ago because it would never have started. And it certainly would have been easier for all parties involved if he'd kept his pants zipped.

Geez...I don't know whether to yell or laugh at the stuff he says. I wonder if he's related to my wife's OM at all? He's the one who told me, after MP came clean with everything (as far as I can tell) that happened (about a month after d-day) that believe him or not, he had been trying to help save my marriage (I so wanted to ask "How? By screwing my wife?").

Sad to say, I'm willing to bet that the OM in your situation (and the one in mine) will probably believe we should thank them for "waking us up" to the problems in our marriage.

Go figure.

I'll stop ranting now <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I dont know about 'normal' but it sure happens.

One BW here on MB was attacked and beaten with a baseball bat by the OW and ended up in the hospital after the WH broke it off with OW! Another OM (Dazed and Confused's WW's?) stalked the family for a while and would call saying he was 'watching them'. Creepy.

And as I said, more than a few OW's mysteriously claimed pregnancy after being dumped. Some will pull out all the stops when dumped. It does help when these psyco OP's start showing their true colors. They become very unattractive to the WS. So if you look at it that way, it's a good thing he's flipped his lid. Your W will feel very betrayed.

And it's apparent (to me)that he thought he still had an in with your W, or he would not have been so upset at her request for NC. If he really thought it was over, I cant imagine he'd be so upset. Now he KNOWS. That's why he's freaked. Good. What a piece of poop!

Hopefully he got it out of his system, but I'd be careful. Watch you back, tell your W to be careful, keep an close eye on the kids. If he pulls anything stupid YOU can get a restraining order on him, w/o your wifes approval or even knowledge, if you have to, to keep your family safe. Just be careful, ok? - Dru

NO! NO! NO!

He's an OP, he's not a repentant FWS. They use this information to their advantage. Do not send him here, ever. He's not your problem. Concentrate on yourself, your family, and your marriage. Stop waisting brain-time on this SOB!!! Please? Pretty please?

If nothing else, it's totally against MB principles to try to educate your S's former affair partner! It's pointless and distracts the BS from the matters of recovery.

Stay focused, he's trying to start WWIII between you and your W. Dont let him. He's done enough damage, dont you think??

Please do something nice with your W this weekend. Put all the recovery stuff on hold for an evening and do something fun. Rebuild those good feelings, you need this, ok? Focus! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm about gone for the weekend, I'll check back on Monday. It can be pretty slow around here on the weekends, so just try to focus on the basics, ok? Good luck and please take care! - Dru

OK!! I won't, I won't!!!

He IS trying to start WWIII. He wants it SO bad. WW is now furious at him. The NC letter filled it's purpose - it established us as a united front against continuation of the A through contact. WW and I are now dialoging back and forth about what a nut job OM is. He's lost it.

MDC,

Now you understand the role of the NC letter. It is very very subtle but it will help you and W deal with this mess and the nut that is/was the OM.

God Bless,

JL

yes, yes, yes! The NC letter is a BOND. I'm glad I did not give up on it. The timing was pefect yesterday to get WW to agree to send it.

Bird - funny translations. Thanks for the laughs! OM makes me laugh WAY more often than yell. Yes if you asked OM whether he thought he saved our M I'm sure he'd say yes.



He's got some strong BS. Strong in large part because he believes it. I can see now how WW was eating all his BS up as justification for the A. This was a dangerous and very deluded affair couple. But then aren't they all...

The tidbits I'm giving you are all from the same email. In one he sent WW this AM that she forwarded me he asks WW to "...please wake up to the things that MDC did to BW and I."

This is my favorite. Ran it by me about a month ago too. He blames me for being unable to reconcile with his W because I filled her in on all the details that he would not tell her. Even as she was serving him D papers he was sticking with the "just friends" story. Her and I spoke a couple weeks after she served him.

About a month after papers OM and OMW met and I'm pretty sure she laid a trap for him with the knowledge she had from our coverstaion vs. the "just friends" story OM was spewing. And she nailed him. And he's furious about it! 6 weeks later! I love it!!

He wants WW to leave the job because it is "not fair" for him that she's there. (She's working on her resume now and I believe her this time.)

Another one that makes me laugh out loud is "...I am tired of how cold and mean the MDC family is and just want it to stop amicably." I guess he wants all of us to be FRIENDS? Go out to dinner??

Anyway - may look like it but I'm not negavitely obessing on OM. I am just AMAZED, really, at the delusion. WW picked a winnner.

Could make great comedy out of WS and OP dialog. A play perhaps.

So grateful for EVERYONE on my thread today for helping me keep my sanity.

Dru -



Absolutely right. Proof positive that the NC letter was necessary! He freaked OUT today!!! He's done this 3 or 4 times in the last 6 weeks. Since WW told him she was going back to me on 5/1. Never this big though. Hopefully WW NOW sees how important NC REALLY is.

Hey, MDC...great post over on 213's thread...

You're no protege'...you're you, in full bloom...was in you all along...now you're a member of the mutual respect society...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I've been following your posts and something occurred to me...you said your wife really picked a winner (insert sarcasm)...

All APs are terrible...like a species. I know...because you have to be a mess to be in one. Just wanted to kill that fantasy some people have of fearing the OP is better somehow...like that would make it okay, losing to a better person...and it doesn't, of course. Doesn't happen. Can't.

Also, I wanted to share what you have learned from a different angle...it took two to have the A...and the OP spoke the language WW wanted to hear...equally culpable...part of the fantasy fulfillment...so your WW didn't do it alone (she did it to you, by choice); and she did the same to his BW...equally.

I bring this up because I realized why it was important for my BH to understand my fog...and it isn't, btw...but in withdrawal and recovery, it was at times a desperate need in me to know my BH knew I was influenced...had a drug dealer...not to victim status, by no means, but that when I stopped allowing BH's influence (pre-A), then I made myself ripe for OM's influence...took it in like water from a great thirst. This is what Harley means by know your weaknesses...and somehow, in me, when my H was WH, and he stood by (while in contact) that he didn't allow OW to talk me down; she was a saint...that he later realized, after withdrawal, and recognizing the fantasy drug injections he'd been taking...that she did, subtly, slyly, influence him...and that he allowed that influence greatly because he had cut mine off.

How do waywards get that way? No excuse...but great to know for the future? Allowing our partner's influence...respectful hearing them, being present and aware, is important...won't protect us from infidelity, but being conscious of who's influence we allow is really important...and who we cut off...

We cut off AP's influence...and it may be the first time in our lives we know we have that power...it's what we do with no contact...and then we see that we choose to allow our spouse's influence...doesn't just come in because we love like we thought...it's a choice. More power.

I share this with you, MDC, for a ways into your recovery...because you may hear her desire this understanding and acknowledgement from you...and hear it as a cop out, an excuse. What you choose to believe matters greatly in recovery...and the pain we feel at having been cut off, without influence, can stay in you for years and years...unaware of this primal fear...forming into bitterness and resentment...

Delibrately remember...it took two...and a fog...and a fantasy...and a lot of pain and false feelings...took a mess to be in one...so you recognize your dear wife, because it takes an adult to be married.

LA

LA - it was the Shirly Glass book that helped me understand the OP 'species' as damaged by definition. Once I understood that, and got a first-hand look at sick OP behavior, OM stopped being a threat.

Thank you for articulating what is in my heart re: influence. I fully understand and agree with what you are saying. It takes two. Perfectly matched in an imperfect way.

If the OP was not as good at creating and believing in his own reality, WW would not have lived and breathed in it. It was a powerful combination.

You explain this SO well. Thank you.

Since it's out on the table, do you think this is a good time to ask WW to confirm the claims that OM makes in his letter re: SF? Everyone is raw right now & since the wound is open....

She saw his letter and has said nothing. Actually she's worried because it was sent to her corporate email address and screened by the firewall - she didn't get it - because of the words contained in it. "Oral sex" did the trick I'm sure. She fears exposure and trouble at work for this. I thought there would be SOME fear of ME knowing about these things. Expectations, I know.

I even forwaraded the email to her personal address (manipulative) because I wanted her to know I knew. Thinking it would make a good jumping off point to explore the events - without gory detail - that I'm going to need to go back to for recovery.

Not now, MDC...

That's for later...and I know that's a heckuva lot to ask...your WW is only now going no contact...she's been wrestling her fog...and you really don't know if she's been winning or losing, do you?

Wait. Do you want truth or lies? Or half-lies? Choose your time...and these truths are worth waiting for...when she understands and acknowledges them in herself...and how much she can amend by answering everything in one fell swope because the parcelling kills...wait

The goal of no contact and withdrawal is for her to come to terms with her own truth...and reality...you're falling back into your defensive manipulative intent instead of choosing a pure one...know your true desire, MDC...I believe it is for truth...which is worth waiting for...and not fast...whatever.

Allow her to have her own fears...you're not her cure or cause, remember? Hear them, repeat and acknowledge...no assurance or mitigation...these are real consequences of her choices...they come for a long time, too.

Sit and breathe...choose not to recall those words, to think on what may be truth or not...do not dwell on what lines up or doesn't...because you can't sleuth your way to recovery in your mind...takes two minds...one goal...and you have that, tenuously, like fresh grass...at the beginning...

You recognized your expectations...you have more...mixed in with your wishfulness...happens each step you can see and call a forward one...and that measuring will trip you...find out how it nourishes you...what parts...find out what you're getting through your expectations and give it directly to yourself by choice...

You're correct in knowing how important it is to your healing to step by step go through it...or not...concentrate on that now, in you...what do you really need to know or not...and why...without saying a word of it to her now.

Time well-spent. This is all hindsight for me...and my wishful self reaching out to yours...

LA

LA - you post made me think. Maybe I should have more anger (not really the right word) for OM than I do. Might be OK now to move some of that off my WW.

Got to add "NC Letter sent" to my sig today!!


<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Yes, add this to your sigline!!

You're self-perceptive...no "shoulds" in there...consider that APs are like a seesaw...got two on a board and you have sway in your mind...balanced, maybe? Notice when you're going from one extreme to the other?

Equal parts and weight...difficult to do...I went from one to the other and back again...no balance...and then, balance...takes time...I wasn't as aware...you are...stay in touch with the anger...you know it's ignited by either fear or pain...trace it back further, even...identify each fear in its parts...trace those back...

Like a boardgame you can play to consume the rainy day while you wait it out...

She's home tomorrow? Wow...and your kids, too? Wow. Big week, MDC.

LA

P.S. And know the balance in the NC Letter...you didn't get her to do it...she chose...and you had influence, not control. Reinforce her choice...helps break the manipulative intent...and bolsters the respect.

Thanks LA.

What do I do with the SF knowledge I have? Feels like an elephant in the room to me. I told her - in email - that I would not accept his reality as truth. That I would rely on her for truth.

What do I do with this? It's hanging out there for me.

Okay, your concerns...have you had SF since her A?

If you already have...then STD tests before resuming SF is rather moot. What do you think?

Still, having STD tests are a natural consequence of her A...I had SF with WH before I knew it was a PA (he waited three months to drop that bomb...though he left clues along the way, which I refused to see)...

And so we had to do the tests, anyway.

LA

P.S. After I hit submit...I saw your "It's hanging out there for me." and I had a red-faced laugh for a second...then I decided to share it...just thought this was an unintentional statement, in regards to SF...and maybe you could use a laugh. If I could go back...I would answer,

"For everyone to SEE?" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Yes we have had SF. Once. Probaby moot. Not an expert. I think testing is in order though.

LA - thanks for the laugh.

What I meant that was "hanging out" was the fact that OM gave me specific information about thier sexual encounters that I am holding out on accepting as truth until I get confirmation from WW. When do I ask for confirmation from WW? This has been bothering me all day.

She'll sweep it under the rug. I don't want to sweep it. I want confirmation on the two details he brought up. Isn't now a good time to close these two things down? I guess now is impractical. And tomorrow night is too since it'll be her first night back. How do I do this??