Having been reading further, I thought I would clarify that I do NOT intend to leave the family home for Plan B.
I intend to remain there with my 2 children..12 and 18.

My intention is to tell WW that must leave asap...to OM's, friends or lodgings..or whatever.
Contact with me is to be minimal, but I will allow her some access to our house.

The reason she must go is that her continuing adultery..away at 3 nights a week at OM's...while using our house as a cosy base is disgusting with complete disregsrd of others feelings.
And it could have a serious effect on our children who are fully aware of what is happening.

Obviously, I have yet to have advice from my lawyer.

Hi, Nagrom,

Thank you for the empathy for computer problems--I miss MB at night.

As for you reading and re-reading my posts...I read that a lot. I don't fear that I'm writing my thoughts incorrectly...that it is something wrong with me...it just is this way...for now. Maybe later I will have grown into a better communicator.

"I can understand that but surely they are drawn into the Affair before they realise its too late to turn back...and are then addicted?"

I'm asking you to hold two truths in one hand...not like pebbles...more like boulders that don't fit together, yet they exist. The truth is she told herself this line of reasoning, which wasn't the truth...she liked the distraction, the taste of fantasy and she chose to continue that taste. There is choice...there is no too late to turn back in our lives...because we have choice.

"They then appear to have no choice but to stay in the Affair..no easy escape?" Yes, no easy escape (escaping from escape); and yes, your using the word "appear" is perfect...they appear to have no choice, yet they retain their choice.

In fact, a key ingredient in being wayward is not seeing their choice...taking their desires to a level of survival (choosing to believe this inside of them), essentially trapping themselves because they choose to (oh, even I hold my head with this paradox).

Recognizing our lives is a lesson I learned here...our choices remain, are invoilately present, yet we can't see them if we choose not to...

See why I have that image in my head of the snake eating itself?

Work on a Plan B letter, Nagrom...that helps set your mind in true tracks...see that you are laying down the boundary for the marriage...not third parties allowed...and her leaving is her choice...emphasized...the marriage does not allow her to live as married (or pretend separation) if she continues to choose to be in an affair.

Period.

Not that she must go, or because you believe she's cozy at home, is disgusting, or disregarding others' feelings. I ask you to consider your intent in this way, so you will not flip flop, making this about these changing conditions...the marital boundary will remain, separate from how you feel on any given day.

There are great Plan B letters...look up the one from CompletelyLost's thread...it contains your love, protecting your love, only having contact through a named third party, and the way back home...what she can choose to come back, which would include ending the affair, a no contact letter, recommitment to the marriage (I advise a stated period of time), counseling, with the goal of a thriving, forgiving, joyous, respectful marriage.

Plan B needs no contact, not minimal. Your children can be picked up and dropped off at the third party place (okay, your son can drive...I didn't mean to imply he couldn't). I don't advise any access to your house or property...it is marital property...part of the boundary. To have access, she will have to choose to divorce you, wouldn't she? Those are conscious decisions...and that is what Plan A is about...bringing that choiceless mindset into knowledge of full choice...as you do for yourself.

"And my WW at present does not want, or cannot, stop the addiction." This is a DJ...all you know is that your WW is not choosing to stop her affair. Period. That's all we know because that is the only truth from her actions. Anything else, conjecture, mindreading, assumptions...lousy things to base a belief on...and most of what the wayward mind bases their perspective on, btw...

Are you taking time to meditate? Ponder gently, breathe deeply, do self-care (conversation, attention, admiration, appreciation), practice listen and repeat with your daughter and son...

Everything you do, and she does, has a serious effect on your children...all our children...you don't control that, only influence.

I would like you to practice sharing your feelings more here...they seem to be absent from your posts...and there is 213601's (probably don't have those numbers correct because his name is Joe) thread here which I think you could see his courage in doing this...stating his thoughts, feelings and beliefs...part of the journey and preparation for a better present, with or without our spouses...

And I believe...it was this preparation which gave my marriage it's chance at recovery by preparing myself for it, whether it came or not...

Your choice...emotional muscle worth developing.

We're here for you...no judgment.

LA

LA,
Thanks for your further words of wisdom....which I have read carefully.
You make it sound easier for the WW to leave the Affair than I had thought. I assumed the addiction was so strong that the waywardwas in effect powerless to break away unless circumstances dictated it.

I had not considered taking quite the drastic action that you advise at this stage, especially as I wanted to progress Plan B much further.
But Plan A has become difficult due to WW blatantly and insultingly spending 2 or 3 nights a week with OM.
And that is why I need to remove WW from our home as it is certainly affecting me and...more importantly...having a bad effect on the children. The boy..18..has certainly been upset by it.

So my priorty is to remove WW from our daily life. But I see there will have to be some compromise to Plan B as WW will certainly remain in the village.
I will have to give the question of access to the property more thought.

I still love WW but her continuing appalling and inhuman behaviour, and the repulsiveness of the OM, leads me to be less concerned at a reconciliation and more concerned to somehow survive this mess!
I do feel that if the Affair dies in the next few months WW may well return.


I had not intended a letter but will consider composing something. I could not find CompletelyLost's letter but note "Silverpool's" 10 step draft.

I do have feelings but maybe tend to suppress them!

error...Plan A, not Plan B.

Am feeling positive today. I still love and want my wife despite her blatant and continuing adultery...but don't need her. Have children that still love me and want to be with me.
Yesterday I returned from a super 2 hour ride in the forest. WW was still at home, but getting ready to go out for the night.
She said.."your'e not happy are you?". I said I was ok.
She said several things which seemed to show she was genuinely concerned.
But told me I look very healthy. She knows how badly the affair is affecting me..something very difficult to hide.

She then said we havn't had a hug for a while and got very close for a while.
She could tell I did not want to talk about us at the moment (in fact I had the Plan B letter ready for for this morning so avoided in depth chat). But told her again how disgusted I am at the continuing adultery.
She then spoke of a possible reconciliation in due course.

She said.."Let's continue talking about us tomorrow?".

WW asks for our life to continue as it is for now. That is with her living here ..looking after us and the house very well (we of course share the work). But still carrying on the Affair and staying away for the 2 or 3 nights a week.

She doesn't seem to understand why I am so upset at this blatant adultery!!...though accepts I do not approve.
It is for this reason she must move out soon....so this is something we will have to sort out later today.

She says how well we get on together which seems to make the affair so pointless with an OM with no commitment.
But the intimate and sexual aspect of our marriage is dead at the moment. And she is obviously deeply involved with OM still.

Hello,

You are doing the right things. Of course she would like to have things continue as they are. She is a classic cake-eater. She wants to remain having the material benefits of being in a marriage with you and your love; and also allowed to have a fantasy sexual affair with some stud for 3 days out of every week. Again what I always say: No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change.

How pathetic she is when she says to you she may wish to reconcile in the future but for now she wishes to keep screwing this guy for 3 nights out of the week. Clearly she must think you are a fool. You judge a person by their actions and not by their words. I really believe if you had made her leave initially when finding out about the affair; the affair would probably be over now. Right now she loses nothing and is able to engage in the affair without consequences. You tell her how revolting this is to you but she continues anyway. My bet is then when she realizes that you are serious, that her life will now change drastically and she no longer will be the little princess who does anything she wants regardless of the pain she inflicts on her husband then her fantasy world will come crashing down.

There will never be a recovery in your relationship and your intimacy level as long as she continues to have sex with this OM. I personally feel she has been very demeaning to you by virtually shoving it constantly under your nose. How absurd that she would think you would continue to accept such hurrful, disrespecting and humiliating behavior toward you without consequences to her behavior. Again if you do not respect yourself then who will? I wish you luck my friend.

Bryanp,
You are spot on with your comments I am sure.
Tht situation now is that she can't move out immediately. Nowhere to go and no money.
But she is to check Council Housing though my income is I am sure too high for the critera.
So, the only option as I see it is for me to rent a flat for her....Say till next Spring....Say £5000....could well be worth it!!?.

Nagrom,

Why do you believe she has nowhere to go? She is choosing something knowing she hasn't the money to live separately...and choosing to do it, anyway.

Would she sleep in her car? Stay with friends...a few days, not months on a rental...she is choosing her life...do not aid her in this.

She can go to relatives.

It is up to her, and her decision, to do this...she has a place to stay, if she chooses to end her affair.

I realize this sounds unrealistic...you're listening to what she's saying...she has nowhere to go...I'm asking you to understand that's her perspective. Her choices. Her problem.

How you are to respect her choices is all yours. Not buying into the fog...is tough...more respect will help you with your fog, buying into her helplessness when she's in full control of her life and her life choices.

I know you'll find out today what legally you are obligated to...I wanted to promote the mindset of what she says isn't necessarily true...just how she sees it. If it were a choice between living in her car or moving in with OM, OM might concede to this rather than have her living in her car. Or he might not...which would be quite telling, I'd think, about how real her fantasy is...

Please update when you know your legalities, 'k?

LA

Hello again,

I agree with lovinganyway. I am glad that you are being proactive and seeking legal advise. It bothers me that you believe that you are forced to pay for her "love nest" by paying for her apartment to continue the affair with the OM.
See what the lawyer says. I am sure she would have some place to go like relatives, friends or even the OM. It seems you are paying her rent to allow her to continue the affair unimpeded. It may be legally you are forced to do this. Nevertheless try to give her the absolute minimum so she understands that these are the consequences to cheating on you and betraying her marriage. My guess is that she will come back begging because the OM will not start paying for her. You will then have to decide whether or not you wish to be the doorpize because no one else will take care of her. I wish you luck.

I've probably spoilt any chance of reconciliation! As I had said, my aim is now to get through this "intact and sane"!.

Although I have not said I don't love her...I told her this morning I don't want her.
She is to leave as soon as possible....she agrees and is looking for somewhere.
She has cash to survive and I will help with rent.

She has again said no to going to live with OM...she is still playing down the importance of this affair.....not much more than friends..etc. And blaming her discontented last year or so of marriage.

I said she is not to spend nights away from here with OM...or will take away car..and other perks. She is taking this seriously and will probably staying at a friends until she has found a flat.

She said she will let me know before calling for anything. There will be bound to be a transition period anyway.


So...will just have to find her a flat asap. She seems to be taking this seriously, and accepted my requests and stipulations without argument.
Life should then be easier for me and I can concentrate on getting the house up together for valuation and sale.

Looks as if I am getting close to a Plan B!

I feel very bad...and quite sick....WW feels the same!.
Feels a very drastic step. WW hasn't gone...desperately trying to find a flat. She will be staying at OM's tonight...but from a friend's house she will be staying at...probably till she finds a flat.
She said she has to go on seeing OM for his "friendship". I said that I expected that.
I did say that I love her and would still wish us to be together again one day.

She is concerned that she could lose out re the children, and other things through leaving. I promised that I will not take advantage in any way and she will get all her entitlements ..IF we separate for good.
So far she has been very accommodating and I respect that....and wonder whether I am doing the best thing for both of us!
Of course, we have still to find accommodation for her.

I will pay the rent and should be able to survive on what she has in her account. So, she is unlikely to return to the marriage through poverty!.

I told her that if she stays here she is not to stay out all night with OM. That being one reason for moving her out...that she is free to see OM at any time without me being so aware at this happening. She is not keen on such rules but has accepted this. (for now at least).

I am hoping that as time passes the WW/OM relationship will cease and WW may return...wishfull thinking!?.
But I am also aware that this could be our final parting...which is why I am so sad!!

WW seemed a bit "cooler" today...perhaps not surprising!
But I think I have shocked WW several times during this affair by doing things like the exposure, and this, which she regards as out of character for a usually mild mannered person!!.

Continued advice is requested and welcomed.

I refer to an earlier comment by Bryanp...."There will never be recovery in your relationship and your intimacy level as long as she continues to have sex with OM"...

Note that I still have no control over this aspect, which will presumably continue until, and if, the affair ends.

Sorry to keep going on, but am concerned I am doing the right thing!
Should I have kept Plan A going longer as I had earlier intended?.
I.e..keep WW at home for more "closer" contact?. I am getting really worried about this.
We were getting on fine...apart from the continuing adultery!
Reassurance wanted please.
Not too late to keep WW at home with Plan A!!

Me again, the perpetual worrier!
Hoped for reply and discussion.

Have decided to revert to Plan A....and thus continue the very useful contact and dialogue with WW.
WW will be in sexual contact with OM for 2 /3 days a week for some while at least in either Plan A, or Plan B.

I have made my point re disgust etc re the continuing adultery. I reckon the Affair will end in a few months and on that basis I feel close friendly contact with WW is the best and most beneficial course.

I will of course go to Plan B at the end of the 6 months...late Dec. if necessary.
After all I have only given Plan A less than a month...!!

Thanks for previous support...but my choice....I am sure I can stand the course.

Good morning, Nagrom (my way of reminding you of our time differences...no ignoring you for any reason...okay...one...sleep),

Why do you parent your WW? She is an adult woman, as capable, whole and complete as you are...even in the fog, addicted, she makes choices. You make choices.

I respect your choices.

Why you make them is as important as making and sticking to them.

Tell me why you are deciding back on cake-eating route, after getting to truth route? Was it fear? Self-doubt? Love? Honesty? Do you see each choice you make as a point to get across?

The turmoil you are experiencing is no reflection on your own character...no judgment here whether you're doing right or wrong, if you are good or bad or in between. You're a human in what I consider the worst situation in your life. Huge. Changing your mind back and forth is part of the rollercoaster, while you cope with betrayal, pain; reality mixed up with fantasy.

How about some individual counseling for you? IC? Find a pro-marriage therapist skilled in saving marriages...call the Harley's from this website. Get some guidance and assurance...you're worth it. Your family is worth it all.

I was a worrier, Nagrom...until I read, "Worrying is like praying for what you don't want."

Ack.

I stopped. To live this day in the present takes my awareness, concentration--focus. I coupled that desire with pledging to not live manipulatively, in fear, but truthfully, in respect. Worrying isn't respectful to me or my present.

Recovery doesn't come until all all contact has stopped...sexual or otherwise. Period. After NC comes withdrawal. Then recommitment and recovery...the stages vary, the process individual to your marriage; you can't force any of it. All by compliance or not. And each step only happens in the present...not the future.

Find your payoff in worrying...mine was that if I could conceive it, then I'd be prepared or that it wouldn't happen. Traced it to my inner child who was wishful...hence, wishing for what you don't want by focusing on it. Where your focus is, there is your treasure.

You remain enmeshed with your WW...which I believe, is the part you want most to get out of this estrangement...I haven't seen anyone recover and have a thriving marriage without really injecting respect...you can get the old marriage back, and meet needs in a fashion...yet the groundwork of enmeshment remains, keeping the weather the same, within the relationship, until each partner knows their own power and limits.

What I don't see in continuing Plan A is respect. Honesty. Truth. She is making her choices to lose her husband and family for a dalliance...as long as she continues to live in your house and you share her in this open-marriage fashion, then what chance at truth, power and limits does she stand?

She is in fantasy and you are her reality bringer. Unless you choose to participate in the fantasy, instead.

Did you get all the Harley books? How about "Boundaries in Marriage" by Cloud and Townsend?

I will support you in your choices, Nagrom...look at your why's, choose with full knowledge and awareness...there is not wrong or right...there is respectful and disrespectful, in my book.

Living to your code instead of from fear makes all the difference.

LA