I can now see how useful Plan B could be to the BS!.
I have felt rather irritable and depressed this evening since having contact with WW earlier!.

And unfortunately I have 3 social family evenings to endure..for the sake of the children.... with her until 26th December. I hope Plan B and no further contact with her will operate from then.

Nagrom67

I don't know if you wander through the other forums or not.

I did want to let you know that LA's father has just passed away.

There is now a thread in the GQII forum for posting your condolences. I thought that you might want to know.

BTW: In case you and LA were not aware:

I am a guy! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I'm hoping that I can get Mrs. Field to post on MB sometime. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

WTF,
Thanks for letting me know.
And T thought you are a guy...but had become slightly confused!!

WW has now been living in her flat since 11th November, 2006.
The flat comprises a living area/kitchenette, bathroom and small bedroom. Her new double bed just fits.
The flat has been mostly furnished from our house. I pay the rent of £350 per month.....or else she could not have afforded to move there.
She left DD12 and S18 and her beloved cat with me.
DD12 has so far spent one night there. But S18 does not yet want to see her. S24 keeps well away in another town.
DD21 is liasing as necessary between us.
.........
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...
......
I have told WW in my plan B letterthat I am cutting off all direct contact with her after 25th December.
Direct ontact is already almost nil, but unfortunately we have 2 family get togethers before Christmas.

WW had told me on 26th Sept that her affair had ended, OM having ditched her for another.
Her visit to OM on 29th Sept dressed VERY sexily indicated that WW was trying desperately to win him back. She returned at 1-30 am and I could hear crying uncontrollably upstairs.

I had tried unsuccessfully a few months ago to move WW out. She had reluctantly agreed then refused apparently on other advice.
So I am very surprised she has suddenly decided to move out.The only financial provision she asked for is for me to pay the rent. She has also managed to find a part time job that I hope becomes permanent in January.
For all she knows I could be embezzeling and spending "our" money like water!.
However I am concerned as to what she might be advised to do as time passes ...especially with such "friends" as OM.
She has refused to cease contact with him...they will remain "friends".
So I am seeing my lawyer asap.

And also considering initiating divorce proceedings early in January....depending on legal advice.

You have done all you could have done. Most would have initiated divorce proceedings a lot sooner but you wished to give her every break imaginable hoping she would return. You have finally made the only decision that was really left to you in order for you to continue living your life in a full manner. I wish you luck.

I'm very glad you posted again, Nagrom...it bumped you up where I could see you...

Thank you, WTF, for letting him know of my loss...only it wasn't my father, it was my mother. Now my father has had two heart attacks this past week and I don't know what will happen any given day.

Oh, and my grandbaby seems to be making real noises about possibly arriving in a week or less.

So I'm not tracking well at all, Nagrom. Sounds like you jumped the gun on minimum contact with WW and alerting her to the Plan B letter...which starts when you give it to her.

Why early? Why not now? I ask because Christmas engagements are like others...your birthday, even...where when everyone knows you are fighting for your marriage, they don't invite both of you...or one at a time. Consequences...you're blocking them again, IMO. You're adding to fantasy, and she's knee-deep in it.

Being a lighthouse, even in Plan B, means you make your accounts impossible for her to access...open a separate one for her rent and take her name off of all others. Just because she isn't reaching for them now, won't guarantee she won't later. When you make your boundaries, be prudent and decisive.

Do you believe in Plan B? Are you willing to protect your love, your heart...removing yourself from her presence...because YOUR presence matters? Plan B continues the fight for your marriage...it acknowledges how important everything about you is to the marriage...that half...so if you would look at your choices from that perspective, you'll choose well...not hug, kiss, enable, coddle and support her affairs...because she's having them. Her partner is independent behavior...and she has placed her friendship with OM above your marriage.

You don't do three-people marriage. She does.

Does your Plan B letter have a roadmap home in it?

Why the rush on D proceedings? I ask because Plan B can go up to 18 months...when an A is present. I don't know about this inbetween...where she's in fantasy about playing single and being married.

As one of the highest acts of love for her and yourself, you were to bear and bring reality. I don't see that. Show me how you do that...when you didn't walk upstairs and be present for her uncontrollable crying (waywards would take that as justification that you don't care, only give lip service to caring)...to know truth. Hand back reality. "OM may have dumped you, yet your adulery continues in your choice to pursue others above your marriage."

Not condemnation...truth. Your truth. Why assume she took other advice...and not a time lapse to yours? Why assume anything? How does that benefit you?

My desire is for you to see a whole new way to live and have human relationships...with or without your WW. To see life's reality with clarity...not mindreading or fantasy. To know what your symbols are...are you surprised about not forking over more money for her? Did you assume she would want more? I seem to remember you thinking that earlier this year...and now that she isn't right now, what does that symbolize to you? What feelings does that knowledge generate? Knowing you is a marvelous journey...sharing you, is manifesting your highest human purpose.

Your choice.

How about what your DS18 refusing to see her? How does DD12 feel about being split in two? How does DD21 feel about being intermediary and split in two? What does DS24 feel, think or believe?

Who pays her utilities, cell and food? How about the auto insurance and gasoline? (Gosh, I almost typed petrol...I AM loopy...no disrespect intended...I'm sharing)...her clothes...any charge cards in both your names?

Awareness, not judgment...seeing everything as it is and knowing what you're feeling, believing and perceiving...all worth doing, Nagrom.

And please tell me your belief behind telling her about your Plan B ahead of time...and why you chose to not disrupt the family with reality...how you choose to put the marriage below, in priorities, the children, or image, or something...

Smooth waters kill with piranha you can't see...smoothing waters isn't what humans do when they live in truth...it's a control freak's game...believing they disrupt, cause, control and cure...and I don't know how else to shake you loose...same for the root of conflict avoidance...control.

I understand and respect this is your journey...your choices. I became radically different in my choice of actions, beliefs, perceptions and perspectives. My bias is how much I love life now, with or without my DH...how much I love being who I really am and sharing with others...connecting...like you...and I feel inadequate to communicate it lately...my choice is to continue, because it's in my code.

I appreciate you reading, anyway.

LA

P.S. I KNEW WTF was a guy...even know why he took that name...I just forget 'cuz he's horsey and stuff. Uncovered a stereotype within my perception. So, thank you, WTF, for saying it again...you're QUITE a guy!

Thanks LA for your as usual helpful message.
I guessed you wouldn't be tracking as much at present.
Soon after WW moved to her flat I realised that it was best for me, and possibly our marriage, that we had virtually no contact.
I am a "man of honour" I like to think, and would not change my mind re allowing WW to join us for a pre Christmas meal and spend part of Christmas day with us.DD21 had invited her with my agreement before WW moved to her flat.
After 25th Dec I intend no direct contact with WW indefinitely. Alright, perhaps I am prolonging the fantasy...but only to 25th Dec.

WW now has no access to my (our previous joint) bank accounts. She will be handing over the credit card and house keys.
I assume she has no access to any of our investment accounts without my consent. I will check these matters with my solicitor shortly.
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............
.................
Am trying to avoid too many assumptions...but..
Outwardly the Affair has ended. WW is still obviously infatuated with, and addicted to, OM and intends to remain friends..also with his mother...and "THE SHIP INN" generally!.
WW is probably hoping OM's present affair will end one day and she will be taken back(this is his third "partnership" with this woman, and at present he is also I hear having "relations" with a young female Canadian member of his staff)

The flat with its new double bed provides a base for WW to entice OM...and of course anyone else. Or she might have already been encouraged by him

I suppose it is these uncertainties and the possibility she may request a legal separation at any time that encourages me to consider divorce. And it might give her a jolt....and bring the matter to some sort of conclusion......
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...

Nagrom,

"Soon after WW moved to her flat I realised that it was best for me, and possibly our marriage, that we had virtually no contact."

And you did this because she was choosing to not be your wife, but to be single, correct?

So how does this reasoning follow:

"I am a "man of honour" I like to think, and would not change my mind re allowing WW to join us for a pre Christmas meal and spend part of Christmas day with us."

I'm confused. Honour is what you do for your marriage. You were honouring her choices, her wishes, to pretend to not be married and live as a single person, and you honoured your marriage by living in reality by reducing contact with your WW while waiting on your W to come back to the marriage. That's honouring your vows.

Including her as the wife she is not choosing to be is to support fantasy...no honour in that. She remains a mother, by her children's choices...not yours. So "DD21 had invited her with my agreement before WW moved to her flat" makes sense...only her attendance was hers...your agreement was your own betrayal...and admission that you would not honour your marriage...you could have arranged to NOT be present when she was...limited times, not overlapped. So that your children could have both their parents present, receive their love and attention, without including WW in the event...

"After 25th Dec I intend no direct contact with WW indefinitely. Alright, perhaps I am prolonging the fantasy...but only to 25th Dec."

You will be betraying yourself and your marriage until 12/26...as long as we're clear on what you're choosing to do, I'm good with that.

"WW now has no access to my (our previous joint) bank accounts. She will be handing over the credit card and house keys."

Remove her from the credit card now...she is not your partner...get the house keys, which gives her access now. That's truthful and honest. Until you do, you are telling her that she is your wife, deserves access and credit, so she can conduct her single life with ease and not experience consequences.

"I assume she has no access to any of our investment accounts without my consent. I will check these matters with my solicitor shortly."

Great job...assuming kills. Just does.

Better to know...I know you know that.

"Am trying to avoid too many assumptions...but"

Two things...any statement you make followed by a but negates your statement...to try is to lie...we either do or not do...

Secondly, when you truly get that assumptions harm you, your family, your marriage, our life...you will not do them...you will be aware and choose NOT to.

"Outwardly the Affair has ended. WW is still obviously infatuated with, and addicted to, OM and intends to remain friends..also with his mother...and "THE SHIP INN" generally!."

The affair continues unrequited currently. He may change his mind. Your WW has not chosen to live in reality...she remains in the fog, in fantasy...choosing to attack your marriage.

"WW is probably hoping OM's present affair will end one day and she will be taken back(this is his third "partnership" with this woman, and at present he is also I hear having "relations" with a young female Canadian member of his staff)"

This is where assumptions (DJs) harm your own heart...you are seeking to self-soothe in fantasy...not knowing, yet attempting to divine...convince...and choosing to do this, you are doing what your WW is doing. No difference.

"The flat with its new double bed provides a base for WW to entice OM...and of course anyone else. Or she might have already been encouraged by him"

Can you see how you stab yourself instead of receiving true self-comfort? Would you consider working on knowing what you cannot know and being comfortable with respecting you cannot know her truth, her intent, motivations...even if she tells you? That's her truth...and you are treating it in your DJs as The Truth...which hurts self greatly.

"I suppose it is these uncertainties and the possibility she may request a legal separation at any time that encourages me to consider divorce. And it might give her a jolt....and bring the matter to some sort of conclusion..."

Would you consider that this divorce is your final boundary enforcement...so you can take a lot of self-respect in your choice...not a manipulative hope?

You matter. Manipulation is fantasy...more of the same...goes hand in hand with DJs, assumptions, mindreading and lying to yourself. My hope is what you take with you, regardless of outcome...is that you are a whole man who chooses...everything. You choose to lie to yourself, live in fantasy and wonder where your marriage fell apart. Seems like in your partnership, there was a lot of self-deception, resentment, withholding, lying by omission, blame and rejection...tough way to live. Easy choices to make.

Please consider making different ones, Nagrom. KNOW your intent...examine it for impurities...remove manipulation so you can stand proud and tall and example to your children what real love from choice, acting to your own code, and living freely truly is...

LA

..............................
..................Still, you have reminded me that Plan B can go on for 18 months and so perhaps I should remain patient and see it through. I will of course lead my own life...and wait to see what happens.

Your comment that I did not walk upstairs and be present for her uncontrolled crying....threw me.
That's what I would have liked to have done but at the time felt inappropriate.

Yes...I am surprised she has not been asking for more money for this move. I suppose it symbolises her wish to be independant....at the moment. In due course she is bound to want a share of assets and income.

DS18 was her favourite blue eyed boy and so his strong negative feelings towards her probably causes her pain....and he has been far more sensitive and affected than the others.
D12 seems seems to take it in her stride but there many signs it is affecting her.She has no respect for her mum and calls her names..but still loves her.
DD21 is fine in her intermediary status. She is impartial with her feelings towards WW or I.

WW pays for her own gasolene. After Christmas I will be signing the car ownership over to her. But it will remain insured by me till next Sept.
At present I pay her rent and £20 per month for her cell phone.
She pays for all else.

This is so sad.

IMO you shouldn't be paying ANYTHING towards the support of your WW's fantasy. Neither should you be signing over ownership or doing anything else that supports that fantasy. If she wants financial or other support while she plays at being a single woman, and thinks that you should be giving it to her, let her go through the courts to get it.

IMO, the more you insulate your WW from the consequences of her choices, the more damage you do to your M.

Nagrom,

In answer to my post, I believe you choose your actions based on her possible response...not truly what is appropriate or honest.

Would you consider changing the way you choose?

What does your surprise about her not wanting more money right now say about your perception of her? This is how you find out what you believe...so you can see if it's valid or not.

Your children love you...and they love their mother...even when they don't want to, wish they didn't...remember that the bond between children and their parents truly cannot be broken or expunged. I really tried...and I think it's in God's design, for a purpose...

Why sign the car over? I'm perplexed by that, also. Why not take it back, stop paying for the cell phone and the rent...because you do that for your W, not WW. Plan B is going dark...no support or contact. You will undermine yourself if you continue meeting any part of her ENs...including FS. She knows how generous you are and caretaking...going dark removes all traces of meeting ENs...except for FC...family commitment. That is what you would meet with or without her. Plan B means you shut out the WW totally...in preparation of welcoming your W home.

You cannot make her file for divorce...no matter what you do...that's her choice. If you continue to only narrow, as if to keep her from doing so, you are lying to yourself. Hurts your heart and your soul.

Find out where you stand and what you're willing to do for your marriage...not your WW, Nagrom. Your honour and dignity require radical self-honesty and knowledge. Otherwise, they are facades.

When you chose not to go upstairs that night to hear her truth, though you wanted to...not to console or change her tears, her feelings...just to know...you chose not to know truth. See how damaging DJs are? To assume so much...as she assumed so much about you...you didn't care, didn't love her, that others caused her to choose to do what she is doing...kills truth, connection and makes reality a microdot.

Take back reality...act from your own code...not react from your feelings. Know your feelings...they are full of information...when you're surprised, trace it back to an assumption...when you're torn, look at the two contradictory beliefs you have...when you feel punished, look to see if you are doing that to yourself...

Find your pride...in your own choices. Share here your truth, step by step...not in segments of reports of actions or status...choose to share all of you...so you will tell self and train your brain, your truth matters...insight is growth and living is truth is your highest goal, not skewing the truth to live in fantasy.

You can do this...so when you do instead of say...Plan B...you will thrive in it, instead of take it on the chin for the team.

LA

A few responses to comments made.

I do follow al you say, LA, re "my honour"..v..the "honour of the marriage".
I now realise I will be betraying the marriage until Dec 26, 2006. But from there on there will be no direct contact.
Contact is minimal now.
WW's presence at our pre-Christmas meal and on Christmas day may well unfortunately put a damper on these days.

WW had said in conversation something to the effect she hoped OM would dump his OW some day and have WW back. This was not an assumption on my part.
...
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..
............Our marriage had seemed comfortable to myself and outsiders and WW has said as much to relatives and friends. But I think you may well be right in suggesting undercurrents of self deception, resentment, withholding..etc...which could make some sense of what has happened?.

DD12 spent Sat night at WW's flat. Returned in the morning with an envelope containing note, house keys and credit card. Note said a thankyou very much for the rent cash and signed and a "X". She had'nt added a "kiss" to a note for some time.

I have heard through the "grapevine" that WW is faced with a large council tax bill and that her current job is not to be extended into next year.
I can see this is where I will have to be tough and accept the consequences!.

I am signing the car over so it will become her sole liability and responsibility.
Shes never checked tyres, oil, water..etc.

I did have to pay the rent, or she would not have left. It enables "Plan B" to proceed.

Some thoughts after listening to a radio programme.

During August I noticed WW had started rinsing out her knickers before putting them in the general wash...very odd!.
She would also do this immediately after returning from a visit to OM.

A sore or ulcer appeared for a while on her mouth.

On 17/09/06 I was about to put an arm around her but she had advised me not to come too close as OM had some sort of virus infection and she might pass it on (In fact probably WW with the virus infection?).

From then on hugs ceased. Kissing on the mouth was taboo...but that had been so for a while anyway.

25/09/06 She actually..for the first time ever...drew away from me when I went to put an arm around her.

27/09/06 WW admitted she had a Hospital appointment, but would not say what for.

07/09/06 in bed all day with a bad migraine attack...has had had 2 more since. lokked ghastly.

cont/d....

I am sure LA will scold me for making assumptions but I feel this does all add up to her having an STD.....possibly genital herpestype HSV-I?.
Apparently there is no cure for it.

Her OM is a well known serial shxgger, also by the internet sites. So the chances of him passing STD's to others is very great.

If I am correct in this assumption it could well have a bearing on her current and future behaviour?.
Presuming..and I hope I am wrong...she has contracted the disease, she will contaminate anyone else she has close contact with?.

Why not ask?

Reasonable question...valid. Part of the consequences of an affair is having to be tested, and your spouse be tested, for STDs. Part of the way home roadmap.

Why not be direct with your stuff instead of self-doubting...you can ask her anything...you can't make her answer nor is it wise to believe by asking you will get truth...you know all this...ask, anyway.

You do that to keep yourself respectful, aware and set in reality. You don't have to prove your question...make it valid...check your intent...are you attacking her in some way? No? Ask. Your thoughts are yours and they are valid, Nagrom.

I don't believe you can pass STD's on without sexual contact...Lemonman or others may know more.

Why not ask first? Ask OM's new GF? Seriously. This is about you, your marriage, your family...worth any question anywhere.

Thank you for asking here.

LA

Thanks LA,
I do feel that from the various things I mentioned there is a distinct possibility she has contracted an STD...possibly one of the Herpes types. And, if so, this might well affect her current decisions,or what she decides to do in the future.

If WW does in time try for a reconciliation with me I would ensure this aspect is checked out. But not at this stage.