LA,
to go back to your questions. I still miss and love her.But I can get on life with thinking of her ALL of the time as I was.
I would think I would manage better if she had moved much further away and there was absolutely no contact of any sort. But DD12 does need to see her sometimes. DS18 does not want any contact with WW yet and she has'nt tried to contact him. They were VERY close before the affair.

This could go on for 18 months or more..?, at which stage I suppose she could legally separate. Perhaps this is her intention?

How familiar are you with divorce law in the UK? I would suggest talking to your lawyer and start divorce proceedings immediately on grounds of adultery, perhaps naming the OM as the other partner. As I understand it, if you don't do this within six months of her acts of adultery, you can only file under 2-year (voluntary) or 5-year (involuntary) separation, and in either case you will likely end up much worse off in terms of alimony, custody, etc.

Who knows - maybe that will help to wake her out of her fantasy.

Thank you very much, Nagrom...

I remember you weren't supportive of getting counseling for yourself...how about your children? DD12 and DD18? Seems to me they have a lot of the same feelings you do...or might.

Out of this awful destruction, what if your children could learn to speak their stuff...learn about boundaries, standards and how much power they have and what their limits are?

As for recent contact with WW...third parties are in place to have no contact...which means, if your DD21 was to relay a request that you call WW to get details for the letter she desired...then she doesn't relay it. She stops it right there and says that any detailed request (what to put in the letter) needs to be written by WW to her and she will ask if you're willing to write the letter to specification...or not. You didn't have to, Nagrom.

You could have chose not to...

I know you are used to fulfilling her requests...her desires...she needs to make her own way, too...don't get in her way. You can say no to anything. Empower your DD21 to be strong on your behalf. Even your courteous voice contributes to her fog...not in Plan B.

Great work on not being present when she came to the house...and for going very dark.

Forget HER intention...and tell me yours, 'k? Sounds like you've gotten control of your thoughts really well...what is your intent in Plan B? I like what MiM said very much...bringing reality is important in everyone's life...are you continuing to not file because then you would be held by the court to pay more to her? Some kind of alimony thing? I wouldn't believe it...since there's no child support involved, but then, what do I know?

How about the extended family...we talked about that...are they communicating with her? With the kids? How about focusing on bringing them closer, more events or days spent together to help the kids know they are not shunned by her family?

How is your relationship with your DD12 and DS18? Is she sharing with you more? Is he, at all?

LA

If it comes to D, I think he's not off to a very good start, having agreed to paying for her flat amongst other things.

Nagrom, start talking to a lawyer ASAP and protect yourself. Your WW is certainly not looking after your interests.

Thanks All....but LA :- in response to some of your comments. I did have 2 counselling sessionsjust before the affair was admitted but was not impressed anddecided that Marriage Builders was far mor helpful...especially after the affair was admitted.
I am doing my utmost to have no direct contact with WW, and have not met her since Christmas Day.
A few days ago DD12 arranged for WW to drive hewr to a friend's house . DD12 passed the phone to me so I could give WW directions. I refused to speak and gave DD12 a sketch map instead.
I have several times felt like divorcing, partly to regain some self respect and to terminate the saga, but am certain this would definitely be the end of our marriage. So am continuing "my Plan B". I am not sure I would easily survive the added trauma of divorce, division of property and assets, house sale just yet. If it becomes inevitable I should be better prepared in a year or two's time.
Anyway, I would have thoughtthat the philosophy of Marriage Builders would be for me to carry on with Plan B for at least 18 months....
...to continue.

...
.....The children think the matter has now dragged on for so long...in their eyes...that WW and I will never be together again.
MIL is slightly more optimistic saying.."its still early days". But WW has told so many people we are separated.
LA...in your postinglast November you did say..."Its nowhere close to over, you are saving your marriage"...do you still feel this?.

I do feel one aspect I now find difficult is the waiting game. Ther appears there is nothing more I can doto save the marriage until such time as WW might try and reconcile.
I am preparing myself though by rereadinf SAA and HNHN andmany of the threads.....
....................

I do feel my saga does have similarities to Jon and Sues affair in SAA and is another reason I should remain patient.Sue could not separate from her lover...Jon helped her move to her flat with some financial assistance.

I hear virtually nothing from others about WW. There is no doubt she is addicted/infatuated to OM. He has definitely been seeing her at her flat since Christmas ...apart from her regular visits to his hostelry....and this being why his other favourite woman leaving him for the 4th time!.
OM might keep WW hanging on indefinitely!.

I do not intend to divorce WW until ready. I do still lover despite what she is continuing to do.

p.s....I am in contact with a Lawyer.

As LA said.."its a bit of a slow plot"!...but surely, Plan B can go on like this for months and years and is likely to be slow and drawn out.
It is not easy. I would prefer to be many miles from WW with absolutely no contact instead of only 5 minutes walk away in the same village.....but even so I have not seen her since Christmas Day, and no direct contact except for one unfortunate v.brief tel. conversation.
But I do feel a little stressed and depressed at each third party contact...which are luckily very few....and include DD12's very occasional visits to her.
I now avoid asking anyone of news of hergoings-on and prefer to be kept in the dark.
But very difficult as I do miss and love "W" and am trying to come to terms with the situation. After all we were constantly together and close up to the time of the Affair...but obviously not as close as I had thought!...
......contd...

...contd...
.........I suppose I do hope one day (though do not admit it to others) she may want to try a reconciliation which is why I found the thread by Lunamare on GQII ..."Example of typical attempt of WS to have BS break Plan B"....interesting and appropriate to my present concerns.

I considered one of Lunamare's postings to "SL"answering her question as to how she felt after more than one year in Plan B especially helpful....ie:-

In Plan B don't know anything about WS.

Don't therefore cheat on yourself and question everyone who has contact with WS.

Plan B is a timethe focus is on you.

You will feel better and better over time.

You will still miss W but not WW.

You will be faced with many "triggers" ..(YES)....so do your best to not intentionally solicit any.

Being in Plan B is very important for one's self discovery to make decisions not based on the fact that WS may not come back home but rather that he or she won't.

The worst thing in Plan B is to hold your breath waiting for WW to come home....but rather that he / she won't.

Should W come back you will evaluate where you are at that time.

I intend to try and follow the advice and principles as set out in Lunamare's post and precied here.
I still wish to avoid divorce at this stage unless drawn in to it.

Nagrom,

Great to see you...and wonderful to know you're seeking Luna's experience and wisdom...

How are you applying that to yourself? You related being aware and choosing to cut out third-party info...were you seeking it, subtly, before?

I guess you got a lot of your earlier post from others...just wanted to not assume.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Sharing your self-discovery here, like Luna and others have done, would be welcomed. Are you finding that sharing yourself with your real W is what you miss most...that's the side by side you described?

What are your own triggers? Do you fear contact? You've done a spectacular job given you're so close and not having set eyes on her!

When you feel stress or depressed, why not come here and share your feelings, trace them...as part of your focus on you?

That's info, too...just a reminder.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA

Nagrom67,

Haven't heard from you in awhile.

How are you getting on?

Any improvements in your sitch?

How are you and DD's doing in your riding competitions?

Inquireing minds what to know!

Stay strong!

WTF,
Thankyou for checking on me. I do appreciate it. And, LA, I think I owe a response still.
I have almost posted several times but "found myself going round in circles"!.
I am trying to follow the "guidelines" I pulled out of Lunamare's posting and set out in my previous post. I feel positive one minute and depressed the next. I think my problem is in instilling in my mind that W is unlikely to return to the marriage and to stop hoping that she might....and plan a future without her. I still love W deeply.
It is completely up to her as to whether she may wish one day to try a reconciliation.
I feel I have done all I can before going "dark" after Christmas.
I felt in Plan A I could not discus EN's more than we did. Of course the only one I could do nothing in a practical way was SF...possibly the main problem EN.
I am trying hard not make assumptions.
I am not checking up on WW. I do not know what she is up to, and DD22..my intermediary...is aware I do not want feedback.
But...a few days ago my hairdresser, who also does for WW and has been a mutual friend for years, said WW's OM has recently gained another woman. But, like me, is also certain that WW is still addicted to OM.

I am breaking posts as I lost this last night ...though my own fault..!!

To go forward now without W, and having to accept she will never return, I may have other relationships...though it has not happened yet. But at present no one could replace her. But if I did have an extra-marital relationship myself ..and she found out...she could then divorce me.
As things stand, it seems legally that I and the 2 children could remain in this house for about 5 years ..at least. I would have to agree to a legal separation or divorce.

WW seems to have lost all (emotional) interest in the house which she loved and nutured, her family and beloved cat. She is now a single person with no responsibilities. She does not encourage DD12 to visit. But DD12 has been missing her mum recently and telephones her now and again. Visits are then allowed but cut very short to an hour or so. She has only been allowed to stay there 2 nights since November 11th.
There is no doubt DD12 is affected by all this. A tummy pain that has kept her from school now and again was diagnosed as Irritable bowel syndrome by 2 doctors and treatment seemed to clear it up. But it has recurred several times recently and a third doctor diagnosed as real pain but caused by stress...ie. the domestic situation.

And she has lost a lot of interest in her pony. Would rather be with friends.
...
....

So...I am taking it day by day. No improvements in situation...but early days?.
No riding competions recently...the weather has been against us, though the mud drying up today and yesterday.
I am hoping that better weather and lighter evenings will revive DD12s interest in her pony. I am certainly not giving up on this aspect yet.

W was a lovely, devoted, family person. We had passionate early years but something may have been missing for more recently.
I am sure she still loved me up to the time of her affair...many things done and said indicate this. Especially so was that in January last year she had booked our "honeymoon" hotel for our 25th anniv in the May and told many friends and others how much she was looking forward to her second honeymoon. But by April she had fallen out of love with me!.

My hairdresser echoed what others have observed and said...that W was a lovely person but changed suddenly to a self centred, callous, ,selfish and narcisistic person...now seemingly happy in a single life.

She had always always been interested in clothes and her appearance..which I liked...but since the beginning of the affair this "got out of hand".
She had always criticised older women who looked liked as mutton dressed as lamb...but is herself now a 20 year old...and very attractive...with an actual age of 49.
....
....

....

............I am working on my ups and downs. I do find any contact with WW unsettling...even the current third party contact.
I think our age difference has in the last year or so been of some concern to WW.
Several times when out together..perhaps sitting in a cafe...she has nudged me to point out an older woman to say that is the sort of age of woman you should really be with...or something to that effect!
In our earlier days the age difference did not matter to her.

I am sure I will have more to add and advice on problems with DD12 may be sought.

As I have mentioned, I spend time looking through useful threads relevant to my situation. Am also reading more of the recommended books.
I do wish I had researched all this 2 or more years ago...it might have helped prevent the Affair.

Recapping...hopefully for the last time!....between May and September last yeart ypical things said by WW were....

"Need to work it out of my system".
"Do not rule out reconciliation one day"...Said several times.
"Am selfish in wanting the security of our home, but we may get back together in time so don't sell the house".
She agreed.."Our marriage could be strengthened by all this".
But all thoughts of sex with me were out of the question...not surprising in an intense Affair!?.

In late June WW was insistent we did not rush into a house sale. This was when she agreed to move out then changed her mind.
At this time she said..."I am not begging but am asking you not to sell the house".
She had told the 2 older children that she did not want to act hastily, move out or sell the house as she did not expect the Affait to last. She had expressed concern to them that she might live to regret it.

Of course she is now virtually out of my life...and whether any of these comments are still relevant or simply WW fog talk I do not know.

Further ramblings!!...

Anyway, from things said during the latter months / weeks of our time together...probably overlapping with the Affair/PA I feel more and more that FS was a major factor. Much of what I have read also suggests this.

FS came naturally to us from the start and was excellent. There was no need to discuss it...just get on with it and enjoy it. We made love several times a week for the 27 years ..apart of course during pregnancies, time of the month etc.. As the years went by W still enjoyed it and often said that just being close was usually enough..full satisfaction not always being necesary....and was often acheived in other ways as well.
So when one of the things she has said, since the Affair, was to the effect she has not felt fulfilled, or needed me for the previous year or so I construe this may have referred specifically to FS. And she has also said.."Quality not Quantity"!.

The point of this post is to express my concern that now having had much exiting sex with someone nearer the age I was when W and I fell in love...she may never want to risk returning to the "older man"!.

Continuing on from the previous post....

..The sad thing is that I am sure that deep down she still has love for me and ALL she has left behind.....and that SF could be enjoyable for both of us again.

I added in my Plan B letter words of encouragement regarding the sexual side of our marriage should she one day try a reconciliation.
She had not been receptive in Plan A to EN discussions, though I told her I felt I had been somewhat selfish and demanding and had realised it too late.
We were close and intimate in most ways but ...in retrospect...both at fault in not discussing why SF was not as good as in earlier days. I dont think she wanted to "hurt" me.
Anyway, I do feel now that because of this reconciliation is unlikely.

From the legal point of view it does appear that I could live securely in our house with the 2 children for 5 years from the time of separation..November 11 last year. And the usual time taken to find a buyer etc...could extend this.

So as long as I do not commit adultery myself WW cannot legally separate, divorce or have any financial agreement WITHOUT MY AGREEMENT until the end of 5 years. She could do it after 2 years IF I AGREE.

My mind is now set on persuing this option. Then in a month or so I may cease all direct financial help to WW.
It will then be up to her how she survives. She may decide to draw on that part of our investments that were transferred to her name a few years ago...£30,000. But at least I would not be paying out the £370 per month for her flat and cellphone...nor be asked to help with anything else.