NC -


This is good, really good. Does he know this? It will help guide him back to you.

On the flip side, can he see positive changes in you as well? Getting past the affair is only one part of the equation. The other, and IMO more important for recovery, part is fixing the issues both of you had that left your marriage ripe for an affair.

That's one of the reasons we left our previous counselor - he was not willing to even consider addressing the underlying issues in our marriage until he felt that my wife had closed all the doors (and he was pushing her to close doors that I felt didn't need to be closed).

Hurting- yes, that is the goal! I mine have a fantasy of my own about the way I see things in the future, or would you say that a daydream? LOL

Broken- I'm glad that you said that some say that recovery can start as soon as no contact is made and WS goes though withdrawal! Looking back over the last two months, we would not have had all the trouble we have had, if H and OW ended contact from the time that I found out! That created the biggest problems for me. Not once did H want to leave, he admitted that he loved me, always did, (WHATEVER< BU))SH**, at least that's what I thought at the time). FWH said he liked having his wife to come home to and his girlfriend! What is that?

I don't think H is willing to post. I've showed him the website and even picked one post about recreational activities to read to him but he doesn't seem interested, just like reading SAA, or doing EN's test. I think that has a lot to do with being so tired right now! I'm not going to push him right now, I think all of that will come with time!

In the mean time, I might just read a few more posts to him and see what happens? I would love for him to get the right kind of support!

"I mine have a fantasy of my own about the way I see things in the future, or would you say that a daydream?"

You know when I found out about my FWW A I used to sit and think about us sitting in rocking chairs watching the grandkids run around. I think that got me through the early part of it. A simple goal. No idea how to get there but I had a goal.

Now I sit and think about me on the rocking chair and her massaging mey feet. LOL. Still no idea how to get there.

Hurting- Do you find that is a normal reaction to the pain and hurt caused by the A? Have you read anywhere's else the same condition occurring in other BS?

Broken- I'm not sure that I have told H that I see a change in him or not! I will be sure to bring it up as soon as I can! Maybe you can explain here about owning your on stuff? If you get the chance, I'll understand if you can't.

Otside of that, It's a gloom day here and I'm really feeling it today! Last night, H came home and called me from the bathroom, said that he got off of work @10:30 and stopped by the Daiquir Shop. It was one of the girl's b-day from the convenient store that he stops at all the time and he saw her earlier that day and she invited him. H said he would stop by and drink a beer. H drank one and told me who was there, I knew them all from the store of course! Now, this is the same store that he met OW at. My problem is he told me after the fact, he got back a little after 11pm. Sat., H did something similar. He was suppose to work late that night but the job was cancelled because the crew was locked out of the shop! H decided to ride down to some of our friend's house. Well, I called him to see if I needed to bring him something to eat and that;s when he mentioned where he was!

I mentioned this to him at lunch. Actually, I wasn't going to say anything because I felt lunch wasn't a good time to do it, but H asks "You said you have some questions for me?" ( I felt like he was going to get defensive, at least from past experience, this has been his reaction!) I said "No, I just have some things on my mind!" I said that I was trying to figure out if I always told him where I was going before hand or if I did it after. I said that I always try to tell him where I'm going before I go, so that he'll know where I am in case something happens. I said "Twice this week, you have take off and I didn't know you were going there!" H said "Twice, when wa the other time?" So, I told him and he didn't deny, he just sat and listened!

I then, said "I thought how would he feel if I did went out after work with a bunch of guys and one girl?" I didn't get a reaction to this either. He just sat there calmly (from body language) and listened or pretended to without saying a word. After I voiced my thoughts, we moved the conversation on!

I'm not sure what to think, but I wanted so badly to ask him if he had seen or contacted OW in the past three weeks, but I didn't. I figured that had to be my fear and if I did that would be LBing.

Today, he gets off at five and we are suppose to be going to the movies with YS to see "CARS." I hope that he doesn't back out of it. We were suppose to go Sunday but ended up BBQing with the neighbors.

Can anyone give me some insight into what I'm seeing here? He lost some points for going last night, but at the same time, he told me that he went so I thanked and appreciated him for telling me. It looks like he's trying to be Honest and Open but going places without my knowledge is part of what started the A. He wasn't where he was suppose to be and I didn't find out he was going over there until D-day and afterwards.

Needing,

Old tricks or Old Habits?

Big differnce I think. The trick being covering up the A a Habit being a long existing pattern of behavior he has not broken yet.

Everything you have said in this post is exactly what my FWW does.

Down to the asking about something during lunch or when the conversation cannot last to long. Then you probably hear you have already talked about that. LOL.

Never ask the question how would you feel. You won't get a straight answer. You tell him how YOU feel about it. I do not like, appreciate, or condone you going out with a bunch of women. I would like it if you refrain from doing that in the future. Boundry set no questions.

I was dumb enough to ask my FWW how she would feel and she must be a saint because almost none of what she does would bother her. Unless of course I do it. LOL

I wouldn't ask if he had contact or not. I might say I am so happy you haven't had contact with OW and see how he reacts. You should be able to tell whether he feels guilty about that or not.

Remember it takes 21 days to break a bad habit. I don't know how that number changes if it isn't a daily habit you are trying to break.

Good luck. I hope you enjoy cars

NC -


I'd be happy to, except that I'm still trying to figure it out myself <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> If I could think of a simple way to explain, I would it (and I'd probably understand it as well <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />). I'll give it some thought and see what I can come up with.

As far as your husband's recent actions, I would agree with Hurting. It may be more an inidcation of old habits than renewed contact.

If being 100% accountable for all of his time and doings is not something he used to do, then it will take time for the habit to take hold.

One approach to take (this is along the lines of owning yourself and your actions) is to simply state something like "I'm unhappy that you weren't were you said you would be, and that you didn't call me ahead of time to let me know your plans had changed."

The biggest thing, I think, is to simply let him know when something upsets you (or, on the other hand, when something pleases you). You don't need to be accusatory, or snide, or mean or anything. Just state the facts; let him know your concern, and what your boundaries are.

Remember, this is a process. Both of you have to overcome the effects of the affair, and buidl a new marriage.

Listen to hurtingless and LongHorn - they're much better at putting words to this than I am.

As I said the other day - you're going to have ups and downs. They will gradually even out, but it will take time. Treat this as a down and look forward to the next up.

See that's why I ask you guys! You can see things clearer from the other side of the fence, sort to speak! Thank you, ya'll are wonderful!

Hurting, as Broken said, I agree with you also. Is it a matter of bad habits. Prior to A, this did not bother me, H was free to roam when and where he wanted, no questions asked. That was Stupid on my part, but hind sight IS 20/20!

NO, I didn't get we talked about this already! LOL Sorry, I can't drink that cup of tea with you yet! LOL I may in the future! LOL

Yes, both of you are right! I did not "OWN" my own feelings, I pushed them off on him. I should have stated my feeling exactly as Broken said. Hurting, I should have set that boundary, which I'm not good at, but by the time it's over, I will BE!

And I do like the idea of complimenting him about NC! I really like that idea, and I will be using that really soon!

I can't thank you guys enough for all of your help! MBers has been God sent.

Have fun seeing Cars.

I want to see it too but with Crazy MIL around things are a little tough.

Can't understand whats going on. I went to put some left overs away and couldn't find any aluminum foil. I coulda swore we had a whole roll last week.

RMAO!!!!
Well, FWH backed out, as I figured he would! First, it was Sunday, then it was Tuesday, and not even today! He asked me when we got home from the neighbors "What's wrong? You look like your pissed." I said "I am angry!" He started huffing! I said "No, hear me out!" He kind of calmed done! I said "I'm getting over it, but you have a tendency to say you're going to do something with me, the kids, all of us, or just in general, and then, you postpone it, or end up not doing it at all. I understand you're tired!"
Well, I left it at that, he was not happy! I said something about supper and he said he would eat leftovers. YS asked "what are we cooking?" I said " I don't know!" and turned to H and said I told him he could help me cook! He said whatever, and got up, went to the bathroom, came back emptied his pockets, went take a shower and crawled into bed! YS and I were in the kitchen when he came out of the shower, deboning chicken for a chicken salad. I walked to the bedroom, he was already laying down, and asked if he wanted me to wake him up to eat! No was all I got!

So, I walked into the kitchen, wrapped up the deboned chicken, checked the movie times for "Over the Hedge", and got YS to put his shoes on. We went to the movies and came back. H's in bed sleeping (SNORING, not loud but snoring).

I understand that he's exhausted but don't said things you don't plan on following though with. My SD use to do that. I can remember getting my hopes up as a kid and having them shattered. I don't want my kids to go though that if I can prevent it. He)), I was shattered with 6:30 came around and I saw that he had no intentions of going (even though I knew this was going to happen).

Right before FWH and I's conversation, we were outside and I said "By the way, I'm very proud and appreciative that you haven't had any contact with OW in three weeks!" All, Hubbie did was nodded his head and walk into the house. I couldn't figure that one out to save my life! I couldn't tell one way or the other!

I must have done to much for him today! Lunch conversation, comment about OW, and "owning my anger." I would have never said "I am anger.... and explained why I was angry. As soon as those three words came from my mouth, it was calming! I said what I felt and therefore could not use it as a weapon towards him in the future! I would have said Nothing, I'm just tired, yadda, yadda, yaddda. Lied, I would have lied!

YS liked the movie, I was not really impressed, Ice Age II was so funny! This one was just cute! Can you imagine aminals on caffine? LMAO! I figured just in case, H does decided to go to the movies late this week, we would save it!

Anyone know if I caught on to this owning thing? Or is there more to it than really saying what you feel? I'm notorious for withholding information becasue I don't want him to get mad, but you know what, that's his problem, not mine! All I can say is that I hope that I didn't do any LBing today! I don't think I need any deductions!

Of course, FWH did say in Friday's conversation that he really liked the way we have been going lately.

I wish I could get him to take the time to do EN's! I'm sure his top one is not Honesty & Openness! LOL I would have to guess it's SF, just from knowing him, but I don't want to guess anymore.

All in all, today has been a good day, not great, but not bad! LOL Just keeping my head up! Oh, do you thik I did the right thing by going to the movies without him? Of course, H doesn't know yet but I kept thinking you have to be your our person! You can't let him hold you back from something he doesn't want to do! I didn't want to sit at home, with him sleeping, what? watching TV, and trying to get YS to be quite! He's almost 4, did you knwo that scientist will discover which planet aliens are coming from before we figure out how to shut up a 4 year old! Just amazing, the energy, everything!

It hit me today that I handled the situation wrong last night! I should have used POJA, and said something like "I know that you're tired, do you mind if YS and I go see it, or maybe another movie."

This would have also showed him that I'm using the resources at hand with SAA. UHH, Foresight! I guess I need to apologize and said exactly that!

I'm really starting to wonder if I'm dealing with a PA too? Any thoughts from anyone?

Ok needing do you need some aluminum foil?

You did nothing wrong last night. You are a family of 4 not of 1 or 2.

As parents you told your children that you would take them to the movies. Like you said there is nothing worse for a child to be promised something then not deliver.

You were not vindictive you did not take them to see cars.

Yes you are owning what is yours. You did not let what you thought would happen if you said you were angry stop you from saying it. You were angry or upset and told him even though you thought it might turn into a disagreement.

Him saying he liked the way things were going is a positive affirmation of your efforts. That is good. Right?

Keep doing what you are doing.

Funny thing the other day my FWW had an AA meeting to go to. I did not want to be around MIL. I was thinking about taking the boys to see x men and told FWW. She told the kids before I looked into movie times and realized it wasn't possible to take them that night. I made her undo it. I took them to the pool instead.

Maybe next time you guys want to see a movie just leave it open ended. Do not set a date or time just say when we can we will to the kids.

I know it is hard dealing with them because they are relentless. How bout today. How bout today. LOL.

Good luck

Oh I forgot something.

POJA. You know I have been thinking a lot about this lately and I have personally come to my own way of thinking about this. It is not entirely possible.

Two people will at times be unable to enthusiastically(sp) agree on an issue. Someone will end up "getting their way" for lack of a better term.

For instance I want a four door coup my FWW wants an SUV. I will never enthusiastically agree to the SUV and she will never enthusiastically agree to a four door coup. What I think happens next is someone gets "their way" No sense in getting a wagon and neither one of you being enthusiastic about it. What someone has to chose to do is agree to agree with the other persons decesion. I am not agreeing to the decesion itself.

Now it is the person who "got their way" to accept any consequences involved with their decesion and own them. In my example if we bought the SUV and gas prices go up and that was one of the reasons I did not enthusiastically agree my FWW now has to own up to the consequences and do what is necessary to insulate me from the consequences.

In my M alot of times I agreed to agree with her decesion. I did not agree to the decesion itself and my FWW has chosen to ignore the consequences.

This has made me not want to agree to agree anymore with her. Of course I did it with her mom and the apartment. I wish I would have come to this thinking before.

FWW I know we aren't going to agree on which floorplan to get. But I have agreed to agree with you in the past and I get stuck with the consequences of your decesion. I will take ownership of any consequences so I will not agree to agree with you. Either way I have to deal with the consequences so I might as well have you agree to agree with me.

That is good thinking on your part. I can say that this has happen to us in the past. I agree to agree to his decision, then, I'm resentful for doing so. I've felt like all too often I backdown and let him have his way.

No, LOL, I don't need the foil! Silly goose! Tricks are for kids!

I did talk to him at lunch and I did apologize saying that I should have used POJA to create a win-win situation. He didn't even know we ledt last night! I told him what we did! I was shocked by what he said next: "It sounded like you were accusing me of being a bad father." I said :I never intended to make it sound like you're being a bad father, you're a great father! What you should have done was repeat what I said, like I need to do more often to you so that there's no miscommunication!" I think he reacted this way because he's not use to me addressing my feelings and not keeping them bottled in. I wasn't even worried about his reaction, and it didn't even bother me when he got mad. Usually, I think if I say this, he's going to do this, and I don't want to deal with that. Classic CA, Right?

I'm positive that everything I've been doing is a positive affirmation. I'm hoping to create an interest in the things I have been learning like POJA, with will make him want to learn. (like Longhorn suggested).

I would love to be able to get into his thoughts to see what he thinks about all of these changes. Yesterday, I was going to return a part for my car after work that I picked up. So, I figured to reinforce what I told him about calling before going somewhere's, I'd call him and let him know what I was doing. H said "I won't return that part just yet, you haven't had any trouble, but that doesn't mean you can't. You said that was the only one in town, keep it just in case." I told him he was right, and that I didn't think about that. I can't remember the last time I said he was right! I bet I shocked him! LOL

BTW, I'll have to keep that in mind about leaving the date open! And yes, they can be soooo horrible about asking! LOL

"I can say that this has happen to us in the past. I agree to agree to his decision, then, I'm resentful for doing so"

See I don't get resentful unless I point out the negatives and they come true. IE the apartment thing. The only reason I am/was resentful is because she refused to take ownership of the decesion. She had an "it is what it is attitude" This attitude does not come into play if I made the decesion.

My rule number one is treat me the way you want to be treated.
My rule number two is to expect me to react in a situation the same way you do. If you do not like my reaction you can chose not to do those things or chose not to react the way you do when I do it.

If you expect me to own the consequences you should own them too or I will be resentful. Rightfully so I beleive.

Sounds like you are getting to some really good CLEAR conversations.

You should feel good that he opened up and told you how he felt even though it was a miscommunication you were able to clear it up right away.

Sometimes little things like that turn into big arguements in the future. You have insured that this won't affect your future. Good for you.

Now that you point it out, we are in recovery. I'm still Plan Aing, we're talking about R from time to time, no rush, we have a lifetime! I'm securing a better future by working on myself, hence he'll have to tag along. In the past we were reactive to each other and would rebel. Silent treatment, I'm not doing things to be vindictive or should I say rebel against each other, I'm not withholding information, hold grudges, etc.

I really feel that I've come a long way in a short time. I've even mention to H that I refuse to go back to the person I once was. And I guess given enough time he will want to jump on the bandwagon!

He's having a great day at work! Management's plan is coming back to bit them in the a$$ and all the employees tried to tell them that a long time ago! A lot of the employees are smiling today, they could get up and dance a jig! LOL This mood could last a few days! I'm going to use that mood with H to my advantage, not sure how or what yet, but I will.

I am very happy that he opened up to me! I was wondering if I need to reiteriate that I feel he's a good father or leave it alone. What I really need is for him to meet my ENs but I haven't even given him my questionnaire because he hasn't done his yet! I've really felt pretty lonely recently, not up for SF, but doing it anyway. Not because I have to but because I don't feel like it's a chore anymore. And the way he reacts makes me feel good, he doesn't just lay there anymore! I hated that! Let's just say I don't feel so betrayed now a days! My Love bank is not full, a long way from being there, but it's a little above the red line. I would have to think long and hard about how it got there. I think the main reason is the NC.

How's your LB?

Ok Needing another nudge for you.

Give him your ENQ today. Who cares if he did his or not? You are handing over the blueprint or roadmap for him to make you happy. If he wants to do the same it would be in his best interest.

Here honey I have a piece of paper here that will tell you what is important to me. I hope I get yours soon so I can make you as happy as I can. Boy does that sound like a win win to me.

You said you are making yourself better and he can tag along. Well take the lead and let him tag along on this one.

Men hate asking for directions sometimes you just have to give them to us so we don't end up in saskatchawan(sp).

As far as the SF I forgot what that is like. LOL

Keep up the good work. So Far so good.

I can just see him rolling his eyes! LOL I don't know he might surprise me! He'll take it, may not read it right away, but he'll take it!

I really need to get over being scare of his reaction and not wanting to push him. I don't want to add any stress on him, but if I don't take the lead I will not get anywhere.

Don't you love it when I talk to myself! I'm a Libra, the scales! I really don't mean for you to hold my hand along the way!

Sorry for mentioning SF! LOL There's always Rosie! LOL

You know you have to take care of yourself and stay healthy! LOL

RMAO

I am tired of being scared of my FWW's reaction.

Our first MC planted the seed in her head that when I bring up something I have the whole conversation planned out. What I will say then what she will say and if she doesn't say what she should I get upset.

I told him that is not the truth how it actually works is I internalize what I am going to say hoping to say it perfectly because if I don't she unloads on me. LOL.

Now I say what I want like I did last night and see how she acts. If I don't like her reaction then I just end the conversation. I am owning mine now. If she does the same great if not great again.

No prob about SF. I have no where to go MIL, 2 kids and a wife that follows me around everywhere to tell me every detail about her day. I guess she is insisting I meet her need for communication even though I don't want to. LOL

If he takes the ENQ you have done your part. What he does with it is up to him.

OH, H was not happy last night, his dad has packinson's and took some kind of "red pain pill" and thought people were in the house. Now, H was trying to deal with this being 6 hours from him. We ate at the neighbors and H was on the phone for at least an hour getting someone to spend the night with his dad until he could go to the DR. this morning.

When we got home, I had ENQ on the sofa where he sits. He asked what it was and I told him. H just (not really threw, but kinda) put it on the end table. I waited about five minutes and said "The last page..." I stopped because of the look that I got, and I didn't say a word more about it.
Tonight is our date night! I hope that Some of my ENs are met. Yesterday, I was abouvr the red line, today I'm sitting on it!

I didn't know that H was called right after lunch regarding his dad, and had been dealing with that all day. I wrote on the mirror last night before going to bed "I'm sorry that your day ended so poorly. I will try harder in the future to listen to you when you speak. Have a <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> day. I love you!"
I'm sure he saw it this morning that's why I write stuff there.

I guess you can say that it's a down day, second it a row! It's not bad, and the only reason I'm having them right now is because ENs aren't being met. I have to keep in mind that we still in the first ending and there no one on base right now! I'm feeling a little wore out! Guess I need to start eating my Wheaties! LOL

I have thought about doing some 180 stuff to pull him closer. I'm at arms about what do to with him. The stress of work and now his dad is not helping matters. I don't know what to do!

"The stress of work and now his dad is not helping matters."

I would say this is the time to either hit the pause button on the progress or forget about your EN's right now.

I can tell you that one of the most damaging things my FWW did before the A was not think of my feelings when my father was sick. After he passed away she did not let up on me about what she wanted/needed. I felt like she wasn't there for me.

Be there for your H. He is a human being that has more to deal with then just the aftermath of the mess he created.

Here is how I look at relationships. They are not 50-50 at all. They are 100-100 both people giving 100%. At times like this your H may be giving you 100% but it is certainly different then the 100% he can give you when this other crap is not going on in his life. The same can be said for you, your 100% will be different at different times.

Hopefully you can give your 100% to him even though his 100% is not as good as you would like it.

I am sorry for the setbacks but that is all they are. Understandable setbacks still hurt sometimes.

Do not start withdrawing from your H's lovebank by expecting too much right now.

I know tonight is date night but maybe you should call and cancle it. Tell him you are sorry about everything that is going on in his life and if he doesn't feel up to going out you understand. I don't know if I would want to go out if I was in your position(insert pet name like honey,baby or snookem). I love you and I am here for you if you need me.