I've got that empty feeling in the pit of my stomach today! I didn't have it before lunch with H, but I do now! I can't pinpoint what it is, if it's the TM he got last night (it was from a number he didn't know) or the call at lunch (which he said was work asking him to work late in the other yard, which he said no too) or just what. I think I'm having trust issues today, I feel like something wrong and I can't pinpoint it! It may just be my anxiety level. LOL

You mean I can't be unsupportive like he was when my grandpa died, which was a week before D-day! How rude is that? No doses of FWH's medicine! I couldn't do that! That's being mean!(sacrasim)

I will do my very best to give 100%. I leave it up to him whether he wanted to do something tonight! I said we can just play it be ear if he didn't feel like it this afternoon! What I think help the feeling I'm having is that I was mentioning that I was up every hour lst night? He asked why and I said I don't really know I guess my mind's running. He said about what, I guess I'm worried about you and the stress that you're under with work and now your dad. H said "Don't stress yourself out working about me!" That statement bothered me, so I said I have to worry about you. You have to handle all of this stuff, and that in turn puts working on us on hold. I don't know if I should have said that or not. I guess it was a good thing, at least he knows I'm not going to try to add to the stress he's under.

"I feel like something wrong and I can't pinpoint it! It may just be my anxiety level. LOL"

It could be both. Who knows. Did you look at the TM or did you verify the call was from the yard? Transparency.

You should have said what you did thats owning your feelings.

You showing concern about his stress level is part of being married.

Good luck you are doing good.

I saw the the TM, not the call! I will check the cell tonight after he's asleep! Also, I wanted to ask you a question in regards to your thoughts on OW's numbers still being in his cell, and a key chain that OW gave him. Someone else posted that I should delete the numbers myself and get rid of the keychain. Just do it, becuase I've spoken up about it and asked H to get rid of it and delete the numbers, but no dice yet. I feel like if I do handle it myself I would be dishonest, and my main EN is H&O. I could lie about it if he ever asked about it but that doesn't seem right to me. What are your ideas?

No you should not have to do it.

He should do it.

Explain one more time to him that the key chain is a trigger to you. I had the same problem with FWW getting rid of everything and if I did it myself it would have bothered me for the rest of my life.

I needed her to purge these things so at least I didn't resent the fact that I had to.

With the numbers the same thing. They are triggers you do not need and if you do it what good does it do you guys.

If he refuses then you figure out how you feel about that and let him know without LBing

See that's what I thought because aren't you suppose to be honest about your personal history and if I got rid of it and didn't tell him, one day I would have too.

It may take longer but to get it done but I would feel better about it.

That's another thing I need to get Hubbie to talk to me about all of these concepts that I'm learning! To talk about POJA, PORH, ENs, etc, but he has no interest or it's either too tired to do it when he gets home. I can even tell you that if he sits too long on the sofa, he's out! everything's on hold right now anyway! I can start explaining things like that when we are settled down. In the meatime, I need to stay busy and work on me. Any suggestions, have you seen anything that I need to work on? I enjoy constructive critism or just somthing you think may help.

I was reading over the 180 list, and some of that stuff is really good! I'm not sure what it was intended for but the rules, i think, promote good communication skills, anger management, patience, and independence! You really don't seem needy but then again H once told me he doesn't worry about me because I'm capable of handling all types of situation, plumbing, carpentry, minor mechanical things, minor eletrical problems, etc. I'm just a jack of all trades! I will try to do it at least and figure it out! H said it in a positive way, but also said that was the reason he helps the nieghbor when H's offshore. She REALLY is not screwed tight! LOL

I tried to explain to him that I need him more than everyone else but that's when he said he didn't need to work about me. I'm going to start acting like the dumb blonde or something! LOL

How do you know if you've changed, grown? I'm sitting here thinking about self-improvement and went in search of some posts on this. I couldn't really find any, and being in the position that I'm in, it's not like I can ask H "What do I need to work on?" Maybe I can find some activities to do to help me with this!

The 180 list is to replace a plan b if it is impossible to do it.

Now as for you I would say you need to work on reading into things a little too much.

Remember you need to be gaurdedly optomistic. Instead of thinking the worse think the best until you have proof that it is the worse.

Understandable I agree but at some point this might help.

There is a book out there that is called "Now discover your Strengths"

I will try to give you why I think it is a good book.

Concept:
Every person has 5 core strengths.
Instead of working on weakness keep developing these core strengths. (It is actually work related)
So if I have someone that is organized I leave the organization up to them instead of trying to makes someone else get better at organizing.
It takes more time and energy with little pay out to develop a weakness.

About 1/2 way through the book you take a strength finder test.

It gives you your 5 core strengths. And explains what they are.

Now the interesting part is that it says the strengths (or personality traits) never change.

It makes you aware of these strengths and lets you use them differently.

Some people use their strengths to do wrong. When they start using their strengths to do right people think they have changed. They really haven't what they have done is refocused their strengths to do something good.

Aha.

I would read this book take the test and find out what your strengths are.

Then you can decide how to use your superpowers. You can join lex luther and the legion of doom or superman and the justice league.

By the way these are my themes from the test.

MY SIGNATURE THEMES:

Maximizer: People strong in the Maximizer theme focus on strengths as a
way to stimulate personal and group excellence. They seek to transform
something strong into something superb.

Competition: People strong in the Competition theme measure their
progress against the performance of others. They strive to win first place
and revel in contests.

Activator: People strong in the Activator theme can make things happen
by turning thoughts into action. They are often impatient.

Strategic: People strong in the Strategic theme create alternative ways
to proceed. Faced with any given scenario, they can quickly spot the
relevant patterns and issues.

Input: People strong in the Input theme have a craving to know more.
Often they like to collect and archive all kinds of information.

I think the input thing is why I needed to know all about the A. The strategic led me to know FWW was lying based on the relevant patterns. The activator made me impaitent in getting the details. Competition led to unhealthy thoughts about OM and me being in a competition for FWW and who was better. Maximizer made me want the most out of my M and to make it the best no matter what happened.

Good Morning! I just ordered the book. I can see several of your themes could possibly be mine to. Maybe Maximizer, Activator, and Input. If I can't learn something I might as well died! LOL I love education!

MOF, H and I went to dinner last night, dinner was good! But I was quiet and he was uncomfortable with that. I was just trying not to talk about R, and have a great night! Needless to say, not a great night, we got home, and I sat on the couch with a blanket sheet of paper to doodle on. H mentioned earlier that I want to talk about R everyday, made refer to the books I've been reading and the papers that I've wanted him to do. Well, H laid on the floor and I asked what he was thinking about. H said he had a lot on his mind! I said that I would just listen if he wanted to have a venting session. H waited a few minutes and said that sometimes he just feels like he wants to run away from everything, just leave it all behind! H didn't say anything else so I waited a few minutes and said "I get that feeling! It's prefectly normal!" H waited and just started talking, and I sat an listened. He said things like he felt like he's a prisoner. I am a parole office. I have to have everything my way. He wasn't going to MC for someone to tell him what he needed to feel and to change him. He liked going to lunch with my everyday but he wanted to go to lunch with a friend of his the other day by himself but he didn't want to think that he was lying and going to lunch with someone else. (He was doing a lot of rabbling and said he was.)

He said that he didn't like answreing his cell phone around me anymore because I have to know who's on the line. He has to give me some kind of hint before I'll go about my way. (This is the parole office thing, along with I have to know his whereabouts.) He didn't know it but I was taking notes while he was talking! LOL I wanted to get this right, and I remained calm and quiet. You could hear the anger in his voice and he would raise his tone from time to time.

He said that I was trying to punish him and he said that he was sorry two months ago! When he quieted down and that was quiet for several minutes, I started asking questions and making comments. I said it sounds like you're very angry with me. He said he was but just about those papaers that I want him to do. I asked if he had seen OW in the last three weeks; he shook his head no. Then said that's what I'm talking about the parole office! I remained calm! Well, the conversation went on for a while and he was angry! I said that I was not trying to punish him, I wasn't trying to change him, I was trying to learn who he is it order to met his needs so that he would feel loved by me! In the same respect, I was trying to let him what I needed to feel loved. I was clam by had tears rolling down my face.

Somewhere's in the conversation he said that I was trying to be spiteful, referring to the visiting the lawyer, the letter to the babysitter, and he didn't say it but I guess the party and the exposure too! I'm sorry but I was not being spiteful because I wouldn't want someone to be spiteful to me!

To make a long story short, H crawled into bed, and I sat on the sofa. I calmed my emotions and my tears. I didn't want to sleep in the same bed with him and had thought about doing 180 again. "No, I'm plan Aing!" So, I crawled into bed, waited and said Good night and I love you! H said he loved me back and I waited a few moments more and said "Thank you for a good night and I'm not trying to be sarcasit! H said 'Well, you asked me what was on my mind and I told you!" I said "I know, and I really appreciated it! That tomorrow was a new day! There would be no anger, resentment, grudges, and someything else, I can't remember. I said tomorrow is going to be a beautiful day!

That was the last thing that I said, and I waited for him to go to sleep. I got up, grabbed my teddy bear for comfort, and went back to bed. When I got in bed, I don't know if he was asleep or not, but he grabbed me and wrapped his arms around me and teddie! It didn't take me long to go to sleep, but I was up at 3, and again at 6.

H said other things like I was pushy, that I think everything is about sex, he needed to get out of routine, he liked out Thurs. nights, and that even on Tues. when he gets off early that he doesn't get to wine (UH, SP) down because of the kids and I. He also needs time to do the things that he likes to do! (recreational time?)

I said things like: I wanted to be radically honest, I asked how I could made Tues. better for him, I'm trying to back off, I feel uncomfortable when his phone rings, that it bothered me that he hadn't deleted OW number from cell, he still had key chain and OW address in truck, I was not trying to change him, I was trying to learn about myself, correct somethings about me, I explain that the day before I was sitting on the line (LB but he doesn't know anything about that), and that I was below the line now! (I had to explain that a little to him because he doesn't know about LB, and LBers.)

I really don't know! I tried to do my best, remain calm, not raise my voice! He called to may sure I was up this morning and I answered the phone with a cheerful "Good Morning!" I picked up all books and papers last night! That doesn't mean I not going to continue in my eduation, I also ordered "I Cherish You" and "The Five Langauges of Love."
I need to get some feedback, what's going on here, how did I do, what's going on with him? He was angry, but I let him run with it! Help! What should be my next step from here? All I know is that I think I need to keep Plan Aing!

"He said that I was trying to punish him and he said that he was sorry two months ago!"

Normal FWS talk. You know my story about the spending after the A. When I told FWW no more spending I was punishing her. Don't know if you know this part but in January of 03 I went on a diet. I wanted to wait until I hit my goal weight and stay there for at least a month before I bought new clothes. Didn't make sense to keep buying clothes until I could stay at that weight.

I achieved that right as she left on her trip. I could not buy the clothes because of the money she spent on her trip. So here I was with 3 pairs of dress pants and two pairs of shorts that fit me. But when I said we can't afford for you to keep spending money right now it was a punishment. The moral here is there are consequences for your actions. Do not confuse consequences with punishment. If you do there will be resentment.

I would say you handled last night beutifully. You sat and actively listened to his doubts, fears and concerns.

If I were you I would look up the articles about forgiveness on this site. It refers to a debt being paid. It is common for the FWS to think the debt is paid before the BS does. The FWS might think ending it is enough.

You should let him know that you want to trust him. Trust is the one of the goals you have in starting a new better M with him. Right now you have reason not to trust him. Fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me. Right now you are doing everything you can not to be fooled again. As time goes by the trust will return. The more radical honesty and transparency the easier it is to start trusting again. Never blindly again but enough that you don't get a pit in your stomach when his cell phone rings.

As far as being pushy tell him you don't want to be pushy but you have a goal of a better M. You want to get there sooner rather then later. I am pushing toward that goal because it is important to me.

There is a statistic out there somewhere that says the success rate of an M is in direct relationship to how much it is discussed.

80% success rate if it is discussed alot
55% or lower if it is swept under the rug.

I told FWW I would rather take my chances in this M if the success rate is 80% not 55%. I would not wager everything on a 55% probability and that is what you are asking me to do. I prefer the safer bet at 80%.

In punishment discussions I bring up the worse case scenario that I could do if I wanted to punish her. Kick her out take the kids and send emails to everyone she knows explaining what she has done. That is trying to punish someone. Asking for radical honesty and transparency is not a punishment. He should want to do that for you to make your M better.

Kudos, NC, on changing your reactions into actions...which is what you did while you listened to your FWH last night...keep in mind, it was a two-way street...you were craving R talk and you got his truth...you were patient, moreso than before, and you did not react anger for anger, despair for despair, frustration for frustration.

You broke the cycle. Serious kudos.

Have you been reading SHMI's Passive Aggressive Behavior thread? I would recommend it...HL has been participating, as well...great insights, and yes, I think you both have some of those behaviors...focusing on your own, as you are doing, which is Plan A, will stand you well.

Describe exactly what Plan A is for you...the plan itself...and write down your expectations...with each contact, your FWH set his time clock back...and would be formally in withdrawal now...could it be your expectations kicking your own tushie and sabotaging your Plan A?

In your recounting of the conversation last night, I saw where your H DJ'd and where you did...are you interested in getting seeing them, getting to understand DJ's are not only an action, they are a thought process and come from your beliefs? Deeper than you think...

LA

Dumb question what is DJ. I am having a blonde moment and I am not blonde

NC -

Just a quick drive-by posting. I think you did well, and are dealing with the normal up and downs that a BS experiences.

Hurtingless and LA are giving you excellent feedback, and you're putting it into practice.

Your H is probably feeling "jailed" because he still is coming to grips with the utter devestation that his choice caused. Not every WS will reach that point, but from everything you've shared it sounds like your husband will.

Keep working on you. If your H continues on the path he appears to be (that of a successfully recovering WS), at some point the enormity of what he did will hit him - at that point you'll need to be there to support him through it, and if you take the time between now and then to continue to improve yourself to who you want to be, you'll be much better positioned to help your H.

You're learning (and applying) much faster than I am - guess that makes you hurting and LA's star pupil <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> (Hmm...would that make me the class dunce? Sorry, LA - I know that was a DJ to me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />).

Keep posting and letting us know how things go - I usually check your thread a couple of times a day, even when I don't post (been really busy this week, and had to work through a bit of a funk).

hurtingless -

DJ = Disrespectful Judgement. Or Disc Jockey, if you're into music <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Bird! LOL...I got a smile from your DJ explanation AND a thought...by choosing respect instead of DJ, I found a beat I could dance to...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

And because you did a drive-by post, you highlighted something I didn't address...

Your FWH may feel jailed, that you are his parole officer...this is often the perception of a PA, because it smacks of making you his mother. The more you hand back his words, stay respectful, separate and equal, the more you will know you are not doing this to him...he feels it, chooses this perspective...and that's fine. That's his.

Not yours.

You've spent years believing what he said/felt/believed was the truth, not his truth...realize you have some making up to do to yourself, because your own thoughts, feelings and beliefs are as valid as his...he can think you are a jailer; doesn't mean you are one.

The phrase I used a lot when listening to my H speak in this manner was, "Good to know." And I was being honest. Good information, and like you said, appreciated. Not to be lived by...to be known.

LA

WOW, you've all hit me with alot to concern.

LA, I'm going to have to read your posts several times to let that sink in! I will be reading up on DJ's and PA's very quickly so that I can prepare for the next step. I NEED to determine what I did to DJ, and PA. This is one I don't want any help on, I have to figure this out myself. I may have questions later! I'm so proud that your proud of me! HURRAY! DO THE DANCE OF JOY! LOL I've got the biggest ! I will be checking into the threaad immediately too! I did think that FWH gave me some excelent information! I'm hoping that I made him comfortable enough to do it again! You're right, after all these years, I have a lot of negative stuff to get out of my head!

Hurting-I will be reading on the forgiven thing. I do feel like I've forgiven him, becasue I don't hate him anymore. I'm not moping around, doing the poor me thing. I kinda feel like it's the past and I just need to concentrate on the future, making a better M.

Broken-Thank you so much, from the bottom of my heart, for the compliment! It's great to know that not only you but everyone who has posted that I really trying hard to make a change for the good! I don't want to be miserable the rest of my life. the last thirteen yrs. has been rough, really rough! Same argument yr after yr! As far as supporting H when he gets so that point, it would be my honor to be there for him. All I've ever asked for is a healthy, loving R, and to be able to teacher my children how to do the same!


Well, I can tell you all that I have learned to be PA from my SD. We would argue and he would use the silent treament on me, sometimes it would be months before he would talk to me. I'm very interested in changing my belief system, because I learned what I know in a dyfunctional environment! I'm happy to have made it this far in life, and to have two wonderful little human beings looking up to me for the right path in life. I'm more than willing to give up MY old life for a NEW one! I've got some work to do!

LA-can you help me find that post on Passive Aggression?

Hurting-I printed up the forgiveness articles and DJ's!

I have alot of studing to do! LOL

Thanks, I am SO EXCITED! I just found an awesome website and printed everything I could! I am not going to deal with feeling crappy about myself. This is soooo FWH!! I could be a ray of sunshine right now!

http://www.passiveaggressive.homestead.com/

NC,

Tread lightly!!!!
Remember the pushy statement. Work on yourself I found another one too that was really good.
http://www.earley.org/Patterns/passive_aggressive.htm

Read the section on how to deal with PA people.

Do not show it to FWH and tell him your concerns yet.

I did and got my a55 handed to me. LOL
Until PA MIL came out then she realized she does it too but to a lesser extent.

MIL is a blackbelt FWW only a greenbelt.

Make sure you are trying to get better don't try to make him get better.

You are going to be up for the next 3 weeks straight with all this homework you are giving yourself.

Long live the MIL. She has been the biggest blessing my M has had in a long time. LOL.