Just to let you know I don't watch TV to avoid my FWW. I need less sleep then her. She goes to bed earlier then me and since I am a considerate person I watch TV in the living room until I am ready to go to sleep.

Yes some men do like younger women as the statistics prove but I would think that the men you would be interested in wouldn't want that. I have told many people that yes if things don't work out I would be going after the younger women but I would never, ever marry one or be in a serious relationship with them. Booty call yes relationship no. What the heck would I have in common with someone that much younger.

I am trying to prove a point. My point is that every single disagreement we have does not need to turn into an arguement. I have realized I can argue until I am blue in the face and nothing is accomplished. I realize now that the best way to deal with FWW is to agree with her and repeat to her the point she is making. When this happens I am no longer the source of confrontation. What has been happening since I started this is no arguements and then she goes in and realizes she may actually be wrong. Before the person that was wrong was always dilluted by the fact that I was mean to her. I have taken that out of the equation. If she is wrong I don't get mad or yell which at least doesn't make me part of the problem. I may not be part of the solution but I refuse to cause more damage.

So I am at least not love busting. I tell you it is hard but it is working. It could be that I am no longer trying to make her see her faults, I am asking her to see them on her own. A lot easier to admit you were wrong when no one has told you that you were wrong. Maybe it is a pride thing for her. I refuse to tell him he is right but I have no problem saying I was wrong as long as he didn't tell me I was wrong.

wow..."listen and repeat the point she was making"...it sounds like you have got the whole communication thing down. I've tried to do this with H, but he is ALWAYS so defensive, that he doesn't even hear what I'm saying. I open my mouth, and all he hears is nagging...So, how can I better communicate? If he could actively listen like you're describing, and REALLY hear me, I think the lines of communication would be much better. Maybe it will change now that all his secrets are out, and he's not so defensive. Anyway, I'm taking my girls to the ocean this week for a girfriends only vacation. (very much NEEDED right now). I'm already wondering what he'll be up to while I'm gone, but I have to trust sometime, right? I'd love any more advice anyone has for me, though. Keep me posted.

Confused; have a great break with the girls, enjoy your time together.
You are a much cooler customer than I am, "I have to trust some time, right?". Wow, I am no where near there, would like to be but just can't seem to make the leap. My hats off to you girl!

Do you really find him less defensive "now that his secrets are all out". I find my H still trying to justify his actions and getting very aggresively defensive if I don't buy the excuses.

Noodle; man you're scaring me. I thought I was on my way to being more mellow, am I going to hit the ditch at the 6mos mark? I am still sad often but I rarely get that "I'm so angry I could spit" thing happening.

Confused, I started a thread a while ago (I think it's titled "Men, be honest why the younger women?") if your can backtrack and find it I think you'll find the answers pretty interesting. I was quite intrigued.

H invited me to head out of town on an overnighter(separtate beds) for business next week. I'll keep you posted if I come up with some fabulous new methodology. LOL.

Hi apl- well the vacation did some good. Being away, and talking to family, I discovered no one was real surprised about this EA. Apparently his mom and I were the only ones in the dark about him. I was also surprised to discover that my family is encouraging staying together.

For the 1st few nights away, I hated him, but talking about it really helped. Getting other's perspectives helped as well. I'm still very angry, don't get me wrong. But, I have to let go of some of it for my own sanity. I will never be naive again, and will always looking over my shoulder.

I hope your weekend went well, maybe sneaking to his bed after the appropriate amt. of alcohol wouldn't be such a bad thing. If you're going to keep him around, you may as well get what you want from him! Hope things are getting better for you!

Hi Confused, I'm so glad you had such a nice break. It's great to have family around, kind of like a warm hug. I always miss it alot.

Why were you suprised that your family was supporting your staying together? My family has been quite staunch in that vein as well but I've come to understand that's the way they think will benefit everyone the most(kids incl.). I think your family would probably be supportive of whatever decision you make but they think there is potential here for you to have that happiness as a family.

My wknd did not go off, my oldest son ended up in the hosp with some complications from a birth defect we have always lived with. He's doing well now, we just have to keep a close eye on him to prevent relapse and the surgeon will check again next week to make sure it's all progrssing well.

As for SF from H, I still can't go there. I think the "appropriate amt of alcohol" would clean out most bars on the strip lol. Seriously, it's still something I can't get into, I don't experience any physical attraction/desire for him at all. It makes me very sad.

From what I've read on this site, there does come a time wher we won't be looking over our shoulders all the time and can start enjoying life more. As for never being so naive again... I don't think that'S such a bad thing. All knowledge is an education, even when it doesn't feel good.

All the best,

Hi apl- sorry about your son. The day I discovered a 2nd internet EA, we wound up in the ER with my dtr, who had her 2nd UTI this yr. I was planning on staying at my mom's with the kids that night. I wonder if God throws these things at us to unify us as a team. I don't know. I think kid stress will either tear you apart or bring you closer. Sick kids is by far the most stressful thing you could endure together.

As far as the other stuff, my H and I had grown so far apart over the last few years due to his internet habits along with many other factors (not all his fault). So, no matter how angry I am with him, our physical relationship has grown, and we are finally connecting as far as that goes. He is starting to appreciate me as a woman rather than just a "front" wife and mother. We never had that before, and we are both realizing how important it was. Somewhere along the line, we both gave up on this part of our relationship. We were hanging by a thread when I discovered all the lies and deceit. I literally have had one foot out the door since I discovered everything. Now, I've had a glimpse of something we may be able to have together and I want to hang on and see what happens.

The anger and resentment is still killing me. I think about the OW before I fall asleep and 1st thing when I wake up. I hope it will get easier for both of us. Is your H committed to NC and fixing the M yet?

Confused, I'm so happy you are seeing some hope in your situation. Think more about yourself and a what a great person you are and the thoughts of the OW might get pushed out to a minimum.

My son is doing well, I have to bring him back in for another chest Xray later this week, but he's back to his old self now. My H and I are still maintaining seperate residence(My initiative, I don't want him to move back in and "blow it". The kids don't need to go through this twice).

H is however committed to NC and MC as well as his own IC since Jan. We are still struggling with the trust issue and I haven't been able to discover a desire for SF with him. I don't trust that he will place me as a priority in his life if it means he has to be put out in any way. This behavior has been prevelant throughout the M. He keeps trying to change but as of his trip to Vegas 1mo ago he is failing miserably.

I remember when the kids were young like yours are, it is a very difficult and stressful time. Please know that it does get easier as they become more autonomous and you learn to not sweat the small stuff.

I think that any couple who makes it through child rearing deserves a medal. Is your H a hands on dad, does he contribute to the running of the daily schedule with the kids, chores etc?

Here's to improving the future...

Hi apl- I didn't realize you weren't living with your H. Honestly, if it weren't for our kids, I wouldn't be either. But, with an infant and a 3-yr-old, I need the help. And, yes, he does st least 50% of the child care when he's home. He's a great dad. Just a lousy husband. I'll finish later- gotta go feed a screaming baby.

God sometimes the kids throw a wrench in everything. LOL.

If not for my two boys I would have been gone on D Day.

Nice how they get to flit around without a care in the world and we actually take the whole family into consideration before we make a decesion.

Well at least my boys get to see what a real man is everyday for now.

I don't know if it's a good thing or bad that the kids are the reason I'm here. I need for this to work in the long run, and for us to be happy together. Mainly b/c I want my girls to strive for "normal" relationships with men when they grow up. I want them to learn about love and honesty and mutual respect through my examples. I just don't know if it will be with their dad. My feelings change by the minute, literally.

Here's the other thing that's killing me. Everyone wants us to stay together, incuding my parents. I think it's mostly, again, for the kids. Right now I don't feel like I would have any allies if I decided it was all too much for me. I'd be the bad guy, destroying the family, not him. Nobody seems to think what he's done is worth breaking up a family, including the therapist. I would like them to be in my shoes for a day, and see how they would feel. My parents have been married for 30 years.

Anyway, you're right- it doesn't seem fair that they got to have all the fun and now we have to suffer to keep the family together. We have to worry about the impact leaving would have on the kids. They are the weak ones. We have to decide whether it's worth it to stay. That is the decision I struggle with every day. I'm getting back into a normal routine, though, and my emotions are more under control. I actually have both kids napping right now, which never happens, so I think I'll go watch soaps and eat bob-bons...Hang in, hurting

Hurtingless, excellent point, kids need good models. That was one of my motivations for originally asking my H to move out, I was not accepting his irresponsiblity as an acceptable model for the boys to follow nor did I want my D to grow up thinking it would be something she should be accepting in her relationship. He consistenly repeated bad behavior and refused to be accountable for his actions to the point where it caused an emotional break down for me.

Confused I really feel for you and the tumultuous time you're in with such young children. I hate to be redundant of what I'm sure you've heard from every grandma and old auntie but "enjoy this time while they are young it truly is cherishable". I still find myself watching the kids sleep and marvelling at the miracle of such beatiful souls.

"Mainly b/c I want my girls to strive for "normal" relationships with men when they grow up"

Very slippery slope you are on there. Read what you wrote and tell me whats "normal" about what is happening now in your relationship.

I want some bon bons.

I am teaching my boys every day what it takes to be a man. I have two songs that remind me of them and almost make me cry and I am a guy.

Just the two of us by will smith and creeds arms wide open.

My oldest son doesn't KNOW everything but he knows mommy did something wrong with OM when they were all on vacation without dad. He actually told her one time he didn't want another daddy and it didn't stop her from taking OM to dinner with them.

I could tell he was very confused when he came home. Challenged my authority and we had a hard time together but we are back on track now.

It has actaully helped us because FWW used to call me to yell at him now I make her deal with it.

He actually picked my idea for his B DAy party. I am taking 8 kids to an amusement park by myself. Hope they serve alcohol. LOL.

Any way as I ramble. You know as parents we can impart a lot on our children but lets not sacrafice ourselves to do it.

My dad was not the greatest and I have turned out OK. Heck my parents got divorced and here I am trying to save my M.

Hi apl- it's never easy with kids. My 3-yr-old D is absorbing all of our stress, and it's KILLING me. The last thing I EVER want is to cause her pain. We try to discuss things calmly, but if she hears us she says "guys-quit talking mean to eachother" It breaks my heart. We rarely talk in front of her, but sometimes it's unavoidable. She wants us to be in love so badly, and ofcourse she doesn't know anything of what daddy did to cause mommy to be mean to him. She'll probably never know, if I can avoid it.

So, how's B working for you? Do you find you think about H and OW less with him out of the house? I could really use a break from obsessing on things, and I often wonder if it would be better if he were not sleeping next to me every night. Or, maybe it would put a wrench in all our attempts at fixing things.

"it didn't stop her from taking OM to dinner with them"

Doesn't it kill you that she INVOLVED your kids in this?! My husband USED our D to justify getting together with OW once- they went to lunch to "get the girls together". Granted her "girl" is an infant, and mine is 3-yr-old. I'm sure they had a lot in common! He also sent pics of he and his D to the internet OW. He uses this "wonderful dad" image to GET women! Doesn't that kind-of make him a BAD dad? And how clueless are these women to think he's such a wonderful dad when he's USING his D to get OW?!?!

The OW actually had the audacity to tell me what a wonderful husband I had and what a wonderful dad he was. That's why she wanted him. WHATEVER!! It's all so screwed up. I said no, he's not a good husband and you're not a good wife or mother when you use your D to get together with an OM. Anyway, I could go on forever. I've obviously got a lot of unresolved issues.

The amusement park sounds a little scarey. But, nothing is as bad as getting on a plane with and infant and 3-yr old. There wasn't enough alcohol on the plane that could have helped me.

Confused, I would encourage you to maintain status quo while trying to work things out. My H only left the house because his being there and continuing emotionally abusive behavior was causing me an emotional break-down.

I think it is much better for the M to work on things inside the family home. Your H seems to be doing his share as you've said when it comes to house/child duties. This can't be anything but helpful at this point, especially with you feeling stressed.

Would it be possible for your H to take the on home duties once in a while so you can go to a movie with friends or even just spend some time at another friends house chatting? If you go in the evening then you're not concerned about him making "play dates" with your children in tow. It would also give you some time to yourself without the pressure of "living the situation" constantly.

My H has taken the kids until Sun am so this should be a nice break for me but I'm lonely already. I have to start rebuilding a life of my own that doesn't revolve around H or the kids. This is something I would caution you to be aware of at your stage- continue to maintain contact with your friends and take the time to pursue the activities you enjoy w/o kids and H. I realize while the kids are so young it's more difficult but even in moderation it's important. Don't get stuck as I have where your kids are more independent, your H does his own thing and you wake up one day without a life.

I have hope for us yet...

apl- very good advice about having a life of my own. It's so easy at this stage to devote every minute to my kids and my home b/c they are so dependent still. That is the reason I've been able to let everything else go and become dependent on H for my only social interaction. As a matter of fact, I went to a banquet at his school with him Friday just to get out of the house- how pathetic. But, I probably also did it to make sure everyone incl. OW know who I am and that I will be involved in his work life from now on.

Ofcourse, OW was not there- he probably never would have asked me to go if she was, to avoid an uncomfortable situation. Anyway, I am going to try to work on having a life of my own. All of my friends are in the same boat as me- totally involved with little kids and babies. Thanks for the advice. Get out there, and socialize, girl!

confused,

Using my kids was an understatement. She completely involved them in her A. Took them to the mall, amusement park, dinner down to his little apartment in the basement to watch a movie.etc My son told her that he didn't want another daddy and he told my Aunt that what mommy was doing was wrong. I could barely face my son after that.
It killed me knowing my boys were exposed to this scumbag.(really don't know which person I am calling a scumbag her or him).

The amusement park for me is easy. Whats funny about it is this is me being me. Have always been a great husband, good provider and a great father. When she told everyone I was taking them they asked her "how did you talk him into that?" She said it was his idea. They all told her that she was so lucky because their H wouldn't do it.

When she was trying to justify her A she took that away from me. Now I know it was justification not the truth. She did what she wanted to do and then tried to blame everyone else. She actually tried to blame my cousin because on the night she was with OM for the first time my cousin invited her. LOL. She told me she didn't know OM was going to be invited. Two years later she slipped up and told me my cousin invited her first and asked if it was OK to invite OM. Guess it wasn't my cousins fault.

If this is negative I am sorry. I am having a real tough time right now. It was 3 years ago at this time my W started her A. Just found out a few weeks ago she was with him on my Sons B Day which is tomorrow. I am just a little low at this point.

Hi everyone- haven't posted in a while. We've had some really good days. H is making an effort to be honest, although I still don't think he understands radical honesty. It's so hard to make him see what I mean. His life has been lying to make things appear OK. That's all he knows. How do I get it through to him what I need?!?! Is it possible for us to EVER be on the same page, or will he constantly be trying to "protect" me from things by telling white lies and avoiding painful subjecys?! I just don't know if he will ever be what I really need in a LIFE partner! If I'm committing (AGAIN) to spend the rest of my life with him, I need complete honesty, particularly now. I just can't seem to pound that into his head. It's like he's physically incapable of telling the truth. I'm beginning to think he just needs a harsh dose of reality, like being lied to and betrayed himself, to see where I'm coming from. Everything in his life has been handed to him, everything has been made easy, and he has never been held accountable. He has never been lied to or deceived by anyone. Sorry, I'm rambling. It always feels good to get these thoughts out and get feedback. Thanks, everyone.

Confused,

What do you think he is lying about?
If you think he is being dishonest tell him.
Don't ask him how he would feel if you were dishonest tell him how it makes you feel.
My FWW finally came forth with the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
When she tried to babble about me not letting go and living in the past I said "I made it quite clear from the beggining that I was not going to move forward with you if you were lying to me. Call it what you want, justify it all you want. You chose this path by chosing not to be honest with me."

My feeling is this on honesty.
We had a house that we built brick by brick together. When you decided to have your A it demolshed our house. I take my part in this because the foundation of our marriage must have been weak. I beleive that the foundation of a good marriage is honesty. Without a good foundation next time the wind picks up our house will come down again. If you chose not to be honest then we will have a weak foundation, I have learned my lesson and I am going to make sure the foundation of our house can stand up in the future. If you cannot be honest with me then I am not going to start building on that same faulty foundation. The choice is yours. Been there done that and it didn't work for me.

hurting, this may sound insignificant considering what other people have been through. I think that he conveniently "leaves out" run-ins with thw OW. They work together in a very small school, and have to meet frequently in a group setting. I believe there's no longer anything between them. But my one request was that he tell me every time he had to speak with her about ANYTHING. I requested this for 2 reasons 1) I need him to prove he can be honest, and 2) I'm trying to get an idea of how often they actually have to see eachother. This may sound over the top, but I need him to prove himself to me. I need him to prove that he can initiate a conversation about her, regardless of how uncomfortable it is. So far he's had a really hard time doing that. It feels like he's still betraying me when they are still seeing eachother at work, and he can't bring himself to tell me about it. He says that he's secure in the fact there are no longer any feelings, and doesn't want to "upset" me when we're having a good day. But, this is the ONLY way I can think of right now for him to prove he's ready to be honest and communicate. We have had the same EXACT conversations about honesty that you and your W have had. (almost verbatim) It's amazing how they hear what they want to hear, and disregarg the rest. I just don't know. I'm afraid all the guilt and a** kissing will wear off eventually, and I'll still be left with a man incapable of opening up and being honest with me. Then where do we go from there. The future is so uncertain... Well, the chicadees are arousing from their sleep...better sign off.