As far as running off the intermediaries..too bad for him.

Don't let him stomp over your boundaries.

Either he approaches you through the proper channels..or he doesn't get to contact you..and if that means he lives in ignorance..so be it.

Document that he is not and never has been *prevented* from having info and contact with DS..only with YOU directly.

You HAVE to be willing to play hardball with the WS..they are vicious beyond belief. It is one scenario in which might makes right..they won't respect anything else.

Kim,

The AFFAIR spells the end for your marriage..the WS behavior is the stench of marital death.

Protecting your assets is nothing short of dealing with the truth as it stands.

Don't go into a fog of your own.

KIM!!

You can get back into PLAN B..RIGHT THIS MINUTE!!

I fell off the wagon or horse..more than once..just get right back up on...

I think he is trying to assume CONTROL again like NOODLE says..

Take it back...

Write a SIMPLE NOTE..no I LOVE YOU or I AM SORRY TO MAKE YOU MAD...

No, he cannot go until I seek legal counsel!!!

There's plenty of time for your son to visit with his grandparents in the future.

This is not the only weekend time that this is necessary.

I would be VERY SUSPICIOUS about this.

How can you be sure that the OW will not be around him?

This is a WH and as you already know parenting is NOT a HIGH PRIORITY for him right now.

Noodle --

Thanks so much!!! By the way, could you go back in & edit the part that you pasted from my note to remove the name of the OWH????

UGH!! Thanks!!!

You made so many great points. I am off to put DS to bed & don't have to give this note until Sunday. I will digest it better tomorrow.

Last Sunday, I didn't care about the M. Now, I'm still not sure. I will not sent the note I wrote. I will use your suggestions.

Kim

I totally agree with this that Noodle says. It is unbelievable how low a WS can sink....

HI Mimi --

Thanks for posting....wasn't sure after my awful posts on Sunday if you would be reading me still. I was going through so much emotional crud.

I will have more time to plan tomorrow and Saturday. Read Noodle's posts again.

Noodle, in case you missed my post above......is there a way you can go in & remove OWH's name??? It's in this sentence: "Do not spoil this by continuing to contact XXXX"

Thanks!!

Kim

Not saying this is the case..but if you go back and read Bob Pures history..you'll see that his FWW and her OM actually PLANNED to run away with the children. Supposedly after everything had been broken off.

He had NO IDEA that this was the case when he refused to allow the children to accompany her when she wanted to take them somewhere.

He found out months later.

If your gut is twitching..pay attention. You don't need ALL of the facts to know you aren't OK with something.

Remember: I BEEN THERE DONE THAT..used to call myself the PLAN B failure...hate to see you go through what I did..had to learn the hard way..TO GET TOUGH...

From WH's note: "Maybe we just wouldn't be able to live in the same house anymore."

We have been living in the same house since October! That makes no sense.



Noodle - I did expose in Plan A. I have called OWH again on the occasion that I knew of specific times that WH and OW met for dinner. The last time OWH & I spoke it was OWH who called me. I later followed-up again by e-mailing OWH. Are you saying that I should not be in contact anymore with OWH?



I like your note Noodle, am considering leaving out the middle part ....conditions for recovery.....I have repeated that in notes to him SOOOO many times. I am even considering no note.....And, I have no one that will step in to be the intermediary. So if he wants to leave word it will be with me.

Here is my suggested note:

"WH, I am simply not comfortable with DS traveling out of state with you at this time. If you have an alternative plan that does not include out of state travel, let me know.

You can pick DS up at our house on Tuesday at your normal time. DS will be out of town due to summer child care arrangements for your next scheduled visitation on Thursday. Kim"

That is also quite interesting about Bob Pure's wife.. WOW.

Mimi -- Plan B is just as hard, if not harder than Plan A. I was warned about that. I never thought I would be in Plan B for this long.

Kim

I guess I'm lucky in that WH's relatives are all about an hour away. He takes DD to his parents' house every Sunday. My mom is convinced it's so he can leave her with his mom and sister b/c he can't handle her, but who knows.

I don't know what I'd do in your sitch. But I do know that gut instinct is always right. Good luck tomorrow.

I like your simple note, leaving out the conditions.

Hey Kim, noodle and Mimi have been giving you GREAT ADVICE! [noodle, GREAT JOB on editing her note!!] I agree very much that you must stop engaging him. You don't owe him any explanations, and I applaud you for following your gut and not allowing your WH to take him out of state. He is NOT trustworthy!

That is even more evidenced by his refusal to tell you where he lives or where he works. Good grief. If that, along with the fact that he KNOWS you have contacted the OWH, doesn't tell you he is still pursuing his affair, I don't know what would. He is still pursuing her and I suspect was in contact with her until you contacted the OWH a month ago. That is usually the pattern.

When you contact the OWH, he confronts her and contact will end for awhile. Then when the heat dies down [after he has bullied you into silence again] he pursues her some more and gets her to see him again.

I think it should be very clear that he WAS still in contact with the OW until very recently. He is still pursuing her and I am SOOOOOOOOOOOO glad you didn't take him back. SO VERY GLAD.

Kim, one of the reasons your Plan B has been so hard is because you are still in contact with him. I wish you could find a new intermediary.

A trip 3 states away is not necessary to fostering a relationship with his dad. She isn't keeping ds from seeing his father, only making conditions. And even if they were still a happily married couple, she would have the right to do that as his mother.

If wh were living at home and no A and he wanted to take ds skydiving...she would have the right, as his mother, to say no, I am not comfortable with that. It doesn't mean she is trying to come between father and son.

Sorry, but I have a bias here also. Just because a couple is separated, that does not mean one parent gives up the right to set boundaries for what is appropriate and not appropriate for the other parent to do when it comes to the kids.

... nor does it mean that one parent suddenly gets to decide everything either.

I allowed my WS to take our child 8000 miles away to another country to see the grandparents for a full month. They came back. Our child benefitted by the trip.

You know where your child's grandparents live. You can call them and discuss the trip with them. You can call periodically (perhaps every day) during the visit.

If it is good for your child to have grandparents and know them. If the grandparents are generally a good influence and care about the child, then why not allow him to visit them?

After the D, your then XH will have visitation ... and will probably have the right to travel with his child to see the grandparents. Why should it be different now?

-AD

((Kim))

What have you decided? I won't tell you what you should do, but here is what I would do, but I am not in plan B. I would let WH take DS. But, I would explain that this is only because you can't legally stop him. I do have trouble with you not knowing where WH works or lives. Can you imagine if something happened and WH and DS did not back on time?

You call the police to report them missing and inquire if there have been any auto accidents. They say they will check WH's work and home to see if he is there. But you can't tell them where you husband works or lives.

My WH tried that secret location crap with me, it didn't fly (but that is because I have a crazed cyber stalker cap that I can put on as needed).

I am no help, I can only tell you what I would do so you know what is probably a really bad idea and do the opposite <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

K,

Somehow I had the impression the exposure to owh was a recent thing/post plan A..something about your WHs reference tied your most recent contact to the exposure contact for me..ah well [shrugs]..

I agree that the best thing to do is not address anything at all except the issue at hand..if you can.

I included it because 1: he was using it as a threat and 2: it seemed to be working.

If you feel the ground has been coverred already and it isn't necessary to restate the conditions..so much the better.

So..update?

noodle, she DID recently contact the OWH to give him information about RECENT contact. She has been in Plan B for months, but 2X during Plan B she has found out about resumed contact and notified the OWH.

Her Plan B has fallen off recently because her H acted like he was going to meet a few condiditions in the hopes of manipulating her into refinancing the house and giving him some money. He said he was ready but balked at doing any of the things that Steve Harley recommended. When her WS realized that she was not going to give him any money, he bailed again. So, that is why she has not been in a solid, DARK, Plan B the entire time.

Ad, she has a responsibility to protect her child first and foremost. Her WS is a fogged out, irresponsible person who has left the family. She doesn't trust him to take care of her son and bring him back as planned. She is not withholding him from his grandparents; they can visit him anytime they want.

Good point, Mel!

Ah,

Actually he outed himself by not being willing to use the channels provided and insisting on direct contact [much better odds of manipulation being effective..he knows what strings to pull].

Being willing to selectively and temporarily accept conditions is not even close to the beginning of reconciliation....unless you are wearing the hopefull/desperate goggles of the BS who is willing to do almost anything to provide damage control.

I have to say..I really think that most BSs in plan B would be better served in assuming that their marriage is over..and making the doorway very narrow indeed for the WS to become a FWS rather than an XWS.

It should be extremely inconvenient and uncomfortable [for the WS]. There should be a lot of work involved [for the WS].

No meeting halfway..unless halfway is where you want them to stop.

Too often it is the other way around entirely..chaos ensues.

BINGO!! This is exactly what happened. She tried so hard to accommodate him and pave the way for him, when all the time he was not sincere. As a result, he has had some control here and chaos HAS ensued.