Mimi - I think we agree that he will never stay with this OW. But he reminds me so much of my WH, who was very cold to me. He kept telling me that it was over, and I would find out it wasn't. After about 10 times, I lost my love for him. Every time I got my hopes up, and it was just like going back to D-day again.

So how does she protect herself from that?

If she will stick with us, we can keep our eyes on him to see what he is like.

My FWH was cold with me, too, and made lots of promises that he did not keep.

The thing is that she says that this is "out of character" for him and that was true of my H during his A...the character change...so sweet to me before..sweet to me again now...

I think she needs to first TRY PLAN A with him.

I agree that asking for a NC LETTER is necessary bur right now I just think asking for it is useless. He definitely will not agree to it.

Leslie47,

I understand, I know how you feel right now, I was once into it before. It is hard, you need to fight hard. If your spouse wants a divorce, it must come from him not you filing, give him a hard time.

If you still love your husband, do not let yourself be controled by them. Take control, it is very hard to do but by being in this forum, you will survive just I am. Please consider Plan B, before giving up, then take care of yourself, go to the gym, have a vacation, etc. etc.

For me, I am still in Plan B, now my spouse is begging for my forgiveness. But I am still evaluating options slowly. Do not allow yourself to be fooled. While in Plan B, your spouse will start to realize what happened, he will soon come to his senses. How long? I do not know, for me I discovered the affair more than 2 years ago, but I am still surviving.

You can save your marriage Madam! You can do it!

Me-38; WS-35
11 years married, one son
Date of affair discovery: 16 Dec 2004
Still in Plan B and hoping to recover the right way

Mimi,

So many problems with our marraige probaby starting from day one. I was a single mother raising my son by myself, met hubby and cared for him a great deal. In hindsite I can see I probably married him for security and to give my son a father. H at that time was a loner of a man. Sure he had family, but not close to them, so it seemed I was all he had.

I was not capable of loving anyone other then my son (not even myself) when I met H. Some may call it puppy love but I know it wasn't. By the time I met my H my heart had already been broke several times and I had so many walls up that marrying H was a safety net to me. (In other words as long as I didn't love him, he couldn't hurt me). Sad but it's the way I felt.

Anyway one of our biggest issues is the way H internilizes everything. He brushes everything under the carpet and refuses to talk about anything. Mine was in always wanting answers to everything.

In addition I traded my SON having a father that loves him for one that could financially take care of him. To this day that is still the same. My oldest son says he's waited all his life to hear his dad tell him he loves him. This is now being repeated on the part of my H towards our grandson. He is not abusive or angry towards son or grandson, more of an indifference towards them.

Then from about the time our youngest son hit 14 and became addicted to drugs we have had so many emotional ups and downs with this not to mention legal battles trying to help our son. I know our son has drained me emotionally. I'm sure H feels the same way.

In addition, there were things I did without discussing with h (for example, when we purchased our house, I agreed to pay X dollars per month, (I stopped doing that and started concentraing on paying off our bills instead) again it was a decision I made and did not discuss with H first.

I have gone from job to job, career to career. For the most part I have worked the majority of our marriage but there were a few times I was not working. I know part of it is insecurity in myself and not allowing myself to suceed in anything, almost like I don't feel I deserve to be succesful.

There are so many things I have done it's all posted in my other threads.

H has been my rock during our marriage and I'm just not sure he has it in him anymore.

He's here now replacing my brakes. I looked him in the eyes and told him, "I love you and I am not giving up on our marriage. I know we can make things better but we have to be willing to try". His reply was "I'm gonig in the house to change into some shorts so I can replace the brakes". His next reply was "Thank you for that little stunt this morning"

I'm going to do my best while he is here to just leave him alone. I am not one to holler or scream at him, nor is he like that to me.

But still I know at some point we have to be able to talk to each other.

Leslie have you read 180, I don't have the detail at my fingertips but try my threat rufftimes, its all posted there, right now that is your best solution, to combine Plan A and the 180, don't let him see your hurt, please go read the 180. That will help me today with h comes over.

I know your hurt, we have talked you also know me as kim12, so go check my thread read the 180, I'll think of you today. Be strong and don't let him see your hurt but maybe if he wants to come home its time to ask him how the two of you are going to made it happen TOGETHER.

Hi ruff,

Yes I have read DB, and DR and am familiar with the 180's.

I've been trying to do a lot of them while he has been gone for the last almost 6 weeks. They are very hard to do when he's not around to see the changes.

However, I had finally gotten to a point that I was doing the changes for ME. (School, Learn to Ride Motorcycle Class coming up, Having some highlights put in my hair again) it other words things that were making me feel good about myself. During this time I have also taken on an extra day at work, supporting my son and grandson (who are currently living with me for hopefully a short period of time) cleaning the house, and just trying to keep busy.

I gave him a letter apologizing for the mistakes that I know I have caused during our marriage (I did that for myself, because it was something I felt I owed him)

I do not let him see me cry. I always look nice when he gets here and typically I will leave the house saying I have to meet some friend (mainly just to let him think I have a life without him)

He frequently comes over to the house on weekends to work on different vehicles but always seems to be in a hurry to leave.

I have not been confronting him while he is here, however I have let him know that I feel we need to talk. (Conversation has always been an issue with him, he tends to try to sweep things under the carpet in the hopes that they will go away) which never works because eventaully they just wind up overflowing and come to the surface. Which is where we are at now.

I do plan on trying to call the MC on Tuesday to see if he is accepting new patients yet. For some reason (call it gut instince) but I want this particular counselor. He's fairly close to the house, has extensive experience in Marriage Counseling and is also on our insurance plan. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I just am not sure what else to do. I'm afraid that if he comes home as stated earlier that I won't be able to mentally handle the coldness from him. (I'm use to his hugs, his kisses, his I Love You's) even though now I know that for a while now they were only habits of his.

To me if he is wanting to come home then he should be willing to put some effort into making our marriage work. If not, why bother coming home? Even now if I call him at work he won't answer the phone, and as someone pointed out on my other posting that is just disrespectful on his part.

Wouldn't his coming home just be a sham on his part if he's not willing to work on US with me?

There are folks on this forum who would envy you for your option of having your H home.

If you understand PLAN A, you will know that you need to DEMONSTRATE your changes to HIM. It's all about YOU. YOU doing what YOU need to do to work on your marriage. It is not about HIM..you changing HIM.

MBers is a process.

I don't get the sense that you have read about and understand the program.

You might find this to be helpful.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html

Do you have the funds for a session with Steve Harley? I would highly recommend that. I had many sessions with him. He warned me against using the 180 Plan given my H's strong need for ADMIRATION which he was receiving from the much younger OW. It was important for me not to give the message that I did not care about him.

I don't have much time now, Lesley.

I will check back with you later.

I do highly recommend PLAN A for you and for you to allow your H to come home, telling him calmly that you want to WORK ON YOUR MARRIAGE with the focus on what YOU want to do...

No BEGGING, NO PLEADING, NO YELLING...CALM yet FIRM....

Well, Leslie, you catching him with OW wasn't a "little stunt". He is trying to put the blame on you. Why shouldn't you be able to know what your husband is doing?

I would really take my time. For someone needing to come home, I'm not impressed with his actions.

The OW may still dump him, especially after what happened.

Leslie, I see you were absolutely correct to doubt your husband's sincerity when he spoke of financial reasons for coming home. Your instincts were right on the mark. That's very disappointing.

"That little stunt this morning...?" He's still deep in the fog. He apparently resents you exposing his affair to the neighbors and doesn't have a thought in his mind about how wrong he was to be there in the first place. He's not ready to come home.

What happens now is you get right back in the ball game. You were going to expose to OW's family but hadn't been able to get through to her father. I'm afraid you're going to have to resume your efforts to find him.

Then continue down your exposure list. I know you were hesitating to expose him at his workplace, but it may become necessary if this thing is to be smashed. The adultery must end. That’s the critical item now. Your best chance to do that is to expose his adultery. I’ll get back to my central theme on that. Exposure should be done to everyone who can put pressure on the adultery to end.

You’re doing as good a Plan A as you can with him living out of the home and you should keep that up. Letting him move back home while he’s still “in your face” with the adultery serves no purpose. I think you would surrender too much of your negotiating position with him for too little gain. Let him come over and do things for you, if he wants to. He’s clearly getting his “Leslie fix” by doing small things for you, but isn’t willing to give up OW.

Be courteous and polite to him while he’s around the house, but I wouldn’t bring up your relationship with him unless he broaches the subject. If he’s still involved with her, he’s not ready to talk reconciliation. I suspect anything he says at this point will have to be taken with more than the proverbial grain of salt anyway.

Once he leaves the house today, I’d be careful about reaching out to him with more phone calls and emails. I think he sees those as proof he can keep you safely on the line while he indulges himself with large doses of Viagra to engage in frequent SF with this young woman. If you don’t call him, he’ll be motivated to contact you.

It’s called “180,” and if you’re familiar with it, you know that the goal is for you to appear to withdraw which encourages him to be more inclined to come to you. Most men seeing their betrayed wife becoming more independent will react by working harder to fulfill her needs, and get close to her again. If you’d like to see some more information on it, here’s a thread talking about the process from some folks here on MB who have worked the 180 process to good effect.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=000476


This is a setback. I hoped your talk with OW had done the trick. I’m so sorry it didn’t, but you see how a little disconnect can create problems in their relationship. She apparently got over the shock of finding out how old he was and how he needed Viagra to be with her. It doesn't mean things are all that harmonious over there though. There was a breach created in their relationship and the fracture, though glossed over, is still there. You can work on that.

There are greater shocks you can deliver to their Fantasyland. Exposing at her workplace may well effective. I think you have an opportunity there. If she’s a partner in adultery with a private client of that firm, the boss isn’t going to look favorably on it. If you’re able to find out city funds were involved, it’s clearly a conflict of interest.

Ah hah…I’ve worked myself back around to the subject of exposure, haven’t I? All right, I’ll stop for now. You tell me what distress you can cause in Fantasyland, okay?

Hang in there, Leslie. You’ve won a battle, suffered a reverse, but the war is far from being lost. Be strong.

I know like Mimi said that many envy your sitch in the sense that he wants to come home. And I know that you can't do the best plan A without him home.

But I think there need to be a plan for those of us with WS's who leave the marriage before the affair is discovered or shortly after it is discovered.

I think it is gonna be what you are comfortable with. For me, I knew I didn't want him hom euntil he was willing to work on something. I feared he would never respect me agin if I just let him walk in and out--on me and the boys.

It's okay to have a boundary that says--no WH home unless NC established first. No WH home unless some remorse shown.

I agree with Believer. Take your time. And stick with what you would need now, too.

Leslie,

I put myself in an MB haitus but still read daily. Geeze.....you pushed me back here just reading your post. (ok... so throwing in my 2 cents, ok?)

Listen to Lemonman ('stop begging) and Longhorn's advice. The others are being helpful but you've got to get a plan.

One POV I'd like to add which is different than what has been said here is this:

1. You should NOT want a WS in your home.
2. You should plan A your H and plan B the WS.

Most important:
3. Plan A is for YOU and does NOT work on a WS who retains the WS action and title. So it doesn't matter if he is home or not, you plan A to make your self improvement changes for you. When u r done to your satisfaction and see your results and the WS is still the WS, you now are eqipped to move to plan B.

You sound frustrated being told to plan A a WS back home. That is frustrating and setting the M up for a false recovery. Actually right now you have the WS in a good predicament....... the OW knows you know where she lives, the WS and OW have been exposed to neighbors, etc. Now you can complete the rest of the exposure as Longhorn mentioned.

You need to get a recovery plan in place for you 1st.

1. expose
2. plan A 4 u
3. secure your finances.
4. create your personal support group - support group does not have to know all, just enough to know how to help you and your family. You need to reassure your children of your love and support and ask for their's. Keep that line of communication open.
5. get MC/IC help for you and your children - Call Steve H if you can to get a plan going 4 u 1st, him 2nd.
6. do background check on the OW
7. learn about your D rights.
9. Read Love must be tough (Dobson) and His needs/Her needs (Harley).

IMHO, do NOT take a WS back. That is a strange and foreign creature which abhors all families. He w/b a dangerous person to have around anyone's family.

The stakes for him coming home should go up not down. You didn't have a WS in your home before, don't accept him as one now. Mine tried to come back for financial reasons and kept losing his pants at the OW's place. When I gave him his financial problems, he begged to come home and that was where I faultered. Don't make that mistake. You have more power now than before. Use it wisely.


JMHO of course and been there done that. Gotta log off now b4 Lemonman catches me here. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> just kidding.

take care,
L.

I second this and all she just said.

Great post, Orchid. Welcome back. We've missed you.

I don't understand this Orchid.

Almost everyone who does PLAN A has a WS in their home.

Are disagreeing with PLAN A?

I'm confused.



What? This is not consistent with SURVIVING AN AFFAIR...

I am not suggesting for her to PLAN A her spouse back.

It's either PLAN A or PLAN B. If not PLAN A, it would be recommended for Leslie to do PLAN B. The best way to do PLAN A is for the WS to be in the home.

IMO, it is not OK to change these PLANS according to our liking...according to our opinion..unless specifically counseled in that way by the Harleys....

My question to you Leslie..you may have addressed this before, I know...

What do you think are your WH's primary ENs?

A RECOVERY PLAN without first doing PLAN B?

Again, not consistent with the MB PLAN....

I'm sure that I wouldn't have not recovered my M if I had to wait for REMORSE. Withdrawal lasts 3 to 6 months before the FOG fully lifts....

After almost 3 years, there still remains FAINT glimpses of the FOG.

I'm afraid that Leslie is being set up for failure.

It is important to follow the MB SYSTEM as closely as possible..not what fits without our individual opinions.

Of course, I could be dead wrong as well...

Her WH sounds a lot like mine..older man in an A with a single young woman..felt rejected by BS..needing attention and admiration during a midlife crisis...

It is important for her to show her capacity to change before moving to PLAN B which will probably be necessary...

PLAN B is an important phase that cannot be overlooked..

PLAN A and then PLAN B before RECOVERY....is the way that I see this system working...

It does take lots of guts and HUMILITY, unfortunately..very, very hard for anyone to do...

It's Leslie's choice..

Leslie's sitch and mine are completely different. I am younger than the OW in her sitch.
So my opinion is coming from a different pers[ective--just throwing that out there.

This comment, though, (and I could be taking this too presonally) while vrey true, leaves no room for the fact that it takes just as much hard work and guts for someone to stand up for herself and have her boundaeies.

I don't think Leslie is choosing not to exercise HUMILITY by not saying "come on right on in while you are still in an affair." I am not sure that was what was being implied here, but the

following the above statement made it seem like she would be choosing not to be or to be humble in such a case.

When in fact, I think jus being on MB shows grace, humility, etc in offering her WH and herself a plan for recovery.

MB is about the recovery of self, too, in this process, and I think I am just worried she'll let her boundaries fade away if she welcomes him in without something to start with.

But again, I am not sitch for sitch a good comparison.
And I'm not trying to debate here. (I'm not confontational myself <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)

I took the EN needs test trying to think as my H (obvously not very good at this because as you can guess if I was correct there would not have been an affair to start with. However here is what I came up with:

1. Financial Support
2. Honesty & Openess
3. Admiration
4. Sexual Fullfillment
5. Recreational Companship
6. Affection
7. Domestic Support
8. Physical Attractiveness
9. Family Commitment
10. Conversation

I took this one step further and gave him the EN questioneer to asked him to feel it out, not sure if he will.

No, he doesn't sound like the type to voluntarily fill out such a questionnaire right now. He might have trouble deciding on what his emotional needs are. Actually, he’s suppressed emotions for so long, I'd bet he’ll deny he has any such needs.

Stay your course, Leslie. You’re the one who is in contact with your husband and the one who knows him best. Your instincts have proven correct so far. Trust them.

Leslie hang in there, he says he want to come home, but that fog in his brain in killing him. Try some combination of Plan A and Plan B, warm and inviting you want to be here type, but little communitcation ie do the 180. Don't show desperation, will make him run faster