YOU GO, GIRL!!!

You are right on target, now!!!


ETA: My H says now that he is thankful that I loved him enough not to give up on him. He also often says that he RESPECTS how I did everything that I could do for our marriage despite his mistakes.

Of course, I pray HAPPINESS for YOU regardless of whether your marriage recovers or not.


<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Most, if not all BS feel this same way Leslie. Thats why some MB BS have dubbed their WS "Aliens". When active in an affair they are nothing like the people we married. Sometimes to the extreme.

Most the characteristics and behavior of a active WS are so similar it can be disturbingly uncanny. Right down to the their words.

Jo

I am with Lemon here....

I do not believe in WS APPEASEMENT. Not at all. But I think you should do all you can do to make yourself attractive to the WS...make the marriage attractive to the WS ALL THE WHILE NEVER BECOMING A DOORMAT...which sadly I see around here lots.

Your WS made the choice to leave home. And it is YOUR CONSCIOUS DECISION TO LET HIM HOME OR NOT. ME? Well I'd see it like this. Let's pretend he has say, well a serious heroin addiction. He's incapable of doing the right things ever while under its influence. he's manic/wild/totally alien being that is a thousand percent different from the H you know...

Now your addict H is let's say, living with his drug dealer right now. He wants to come home. You want him away from this substance/thing that makes him into a monster...yet it's the very thing HE IS ACTIVELY CHOOSING TO DESTROY HIS OWN LIFE...so what's leslie to do?

If I were you, I would see it as this way. I would NOT want a WS or an addict under my roof. Not at all. Since he's already out, I'd make it known that 1)I want my H back...but NOT THIS MAN PARADING AROUND AS MY H...and that 2)my boundaries are to be met 100 percent BEFORE he moves home....MY boundaries are key.

What would the be? NC for sure for life. Exposure and showing completely the BS (maybe talking to OW via speakerphone convo) and sending letter certified so she gets the message. Him going to IC and couple's counseling first. Him working on himself, getting the help he needed, and working thru HIS ISSUES which are at hand. Unless a marriage is severely disabled, usually an affair imho happens for stupid reasons...my xh? His happened simply b/c he got sick of having vanilla ice cream every day (me) and wanted a scoop of chocolate and tutti fruitti (his idiot ow/w) on the side. He never knew he'd lose his vanilla, his favorite forever, when he started down this stuuupid path.

and it is stupid! For the most part. The mundane issues I hear over and over are problems that are easily fixed...these excuses given why they even have the darn affairs in the first place. I am of the opinion AFFAIRS HAPPEN B/C IT FEELS GOOD...FEELS GOOD TO HAVE EGO STROKED...AND OTHER PARTS TOO BY SOMEBODY DIFFERENT THAN YOUR DAY IN/DAY OUT PARTNER. That's why mine had his affair(s).

And you choose how you react to his stupidity. To his lack of responsibility and conscience.

We so desperately here, many of them at least imho, want to do something so badly that will make them snap out, wake up, smell the coffee etc. That will only happen when the WS realizes and WANTS TO. That may take time. And you gotta also figure out if you want to wait forever...I didn't. I waited 1.5 years in pain in limbo and dealt with a complete cake eating egocentrist. He never really woke up. He still has not. But I can say he's miserable and THAT I AM NOT...NOT AT ALL...

In the end, it is up to YOU if you want him home. It is up to YOU what YOU CHOOSE TO ACCEPT AND WHAT YOU DECIDE TO REJECT.

as for me? I would always reject a WS. I've had my fill of aliens.

What worked for a short while with my xh was a c ombo of plan B intermixed whenever there was teeny contact (our son was littler then and we had to do exchanges as I am out of state with nobody to perform as an intermediary) I implemented 180 stuff. That worked well. Or 180 stuff in plan A. I just firmly believe that the WS needs to see their BS slipping away and placed in a very very attractive light. As if they'd better act now b/c the BS is in short supply and gonna sell out soon!

And at the end of the day, no matter WHAT YOU CHOOSE TO DO OR ACCEPT...HE WILL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS OWN ACTIONS AND WILL CHOOSE HIS OWN ACTIONS. You cannot do them for him. You can't make a WS do anything even if we wanted to. But we can stack odds better in our favor.

I firmly believe a strong, intelligent, attractive and NOT EMOTIONALLY NEEDS BS with firm resolve can usually break a WS every single time. Unless he's the Sith Lord known as Vader...and that'd be my xh...who defies every law of gravity and no matter how many times the man bounces down after yet another life altering stupid mistake,. he bounces right up. He has the horrible convergence of being a WS, sociopath, incredible salesman, wealthy, and handsome...thus the multiple bounces from his abyss he created. My xh is in the MB all time "WS hall of shame". Probably at numero uno. But this taught me tons. And most here thankfully are TONS LESS DIFFICULT THAN MY XH.

Sorry...wanted to edit "Not Emotionally Needy" in the above paragraph in what makes a person attractive.

I would strongly discourage you from threatning divorce if you are not fully ready and willing to get one. If you don't want a divorce, please do NOT ask for one in the hopes of getting some action that you want.

This avenue ***may*** work but I tend to think the chances are not good that it will.

If you feel that you are at a "point" that you want to ask for a divorce because you of the continued cheating and betrayal...than I hardly understand why people are suggesting you continue to Plan A and encourage him home under those obviously false pretneses. You are just going to get more angry and more hurt further killing the love and respect you have for the cheater.....Total separation (Plan B) would be a better option to preserve the love and respect you have for him.
Just my thoughts after reading the thread again.

Lem

My WH is living with OW who is 17 years younger than him. Intercepted emails, sounded like they were talking of marriage in the very near future.

How do I get him back if he's talking like this? I honestly think I've lost him and am now resenting him, losing respect and love for him. He still comes here to do household repairs etc. occasionally, and I LB'd him the other day because it just makes me sick to look at him knowing he's screwing her every chance he gets. I'm thinking of starting D proceedings.

With regards to a 180, if he see that I can do stuff on my own, won't that just validate the fact that I don't need him here anymore and he won't feel that he needs to come back?

I agree with Sour Male. Lesie this whole journey is a roller coaster. It is up to you to decide when the time is right. But you can alwasy [b]DO Divorce[/b. I just would suggest that you wait a few days and see how you feel then. Try it on. And If youstill feel that way, a storng Plan B. WHich is the time of peace for you and the transition that th eitme with an unrepentant WS out of the picture. It will giv eyou time to get your ducks AL in a row. ALL the financials, etc.

I think you have done an admirable plan. Very one of the best I have seen. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Get a Shark laywer and make sure that all the I's are dotted and the T's crossed. YOu can alwasy back off but you do NOT want to be blindsided by a WS spending ALL of your money. Especially on the OW. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

I understand now about not having him to come back home.

However, I still recommend that you do PLAN A for as long as possible..as another poster stated..until you feel that you are beginning to lose your love for him.

Then, PLAN B. As indicated by Dr. Harley, Plan B is most effective when the WS misses you...the person that you were during PLAN A.

PLAN B IS part of an effort to SAVE the Marriage..to safeguard the love that you have left for your WS.

I fully understand that all situations cannot turn out like mine did but unlike some others that have posted here..I am extremely happy with my FWH and I am thankful that I worked these PLANS....

Mimi !!!!

She is threatning to ask for a divorce on Tuesday because she is so fed uo with his lies and cheating. Now, I don't know about you, but that would be a rather large "alert" that her "love" for him is in danger.

You and I both know that his chances for writing a NC letter now and "meaning" it are slim and none. SO how much longer do you suggest she "hold" on in Plan A while she contemplates asking for a divorce (which may very well ease his burden of thinking he is a "bad" guy".

Just Peachy,

Here is my stance on things as of now:

I do not want H home until the following boundaries of mine are met:

1. All contact with OW must stop
2. No Contact letter must be written and I will mail
3. MC and IC (latter one is if he wants it)
4. No more secret passwords on e-mail, cell phones.
5. No more P.O. BOX, all bills come to the house
6. Actions must show he wants to be home

Lemon,

My posting about filing for D was made in haste. It was simply what I was feeling at the moment. I will not nor have I ever threated H with D. If I ever reach the point of pursuing that I will file without threats.


MiMi,

I no longer have it in me to continue to Plan A. I remember looking at my H and feeling sorry for him. He doesn't look happy. His attitude and behavior is not healthy for me so in order to continue to love the man I married I have to preserve the feelings I still have for him while looking out for myself.

I will be implementing Plan B on Friday unless Friday comes early this week (LH will understand the last part). Between now and Friday I will be making the final plans to initiate Plan B.

I have started writing my Plan B letter and while it is not final I think I have a good one going.

Everyone here has been so helpful and encouraging today, and gave me lots to think about. I am glad I found this site, it has helped me more then I can ever say.

I AGREE THAT IT IS TIME FOR PLAN B!

I acknowledge that I haven't been reading the facts closely about your situation, Leslie.

IMO, PLAN B definitely is the best decision.

I'm listening to you, LM! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I understand.

Goodluck

Lem

Good plan, Leslie. You have a solid Plan A under your belt and now is the time.

What you want to avoid is multiple false recoveries. Your Recovery Requirements List looks damn thorough. I'd add one item "Ability to audit whatever, whenever you feel the need". If your husband is serious about recovery, he shouldn't have a prob with any of this.

You deserve a REAL recovery, so don't get soft on what you need.

Please post your Plan B letter here and we can critique it for you, if you'd like.

Gob Bless,
Jo

Hey Leslie. I think oyu are doing great.

Wanted to add one thing (and you may have addressed this already, but I'm too tired to reread everything tonigh) but I would also require him to have some std testing. There are many advocates of that on here--and i am one myself.

We are rooting for you. Plan B (though I never got there) I have heard is tough, so post here for support.

You are 100% right about this place being so very helpful. It was/is my main source of recovery ftom all this chaos.

Plan B letter to H, first draft. Please feel free to post your comments and or suggestions. Most of it was taken from another poster on this site, I just added a little and subtracted some to make it my own.



Dearest M,

This is one of the hardest letters I’ve ever written. It is with great sadness that I sit here and put my thoughts and feelings on paper. It is truly sad what has happened to our marriage and to us. The path that I must take now is not one of choice but one of self-preservation. Let me explain.

I would first like to acknowledge and apologize for my part in the stage of our marriage. I have made many mistakes in the past that can not be changed. What I have been able to do is recognize many of my errors and have learned from them so that I can take steps to ensure that they will not happen again. I was selfishly caught up in myself, and with my selfishness and foolishness I helped create a void in our marriage that helped allow this affair to happen. I now clearly see many of those things I was lacking in. I just didn’t understand how important it was to us.

I did not understand what it took to have a successful and fulfilling relationship, or how to meet your needs; including not meeting your need for a financial support, recreational companionship, honesty and openneness. I can not sit here today and say that I know all that I need to know about relationships but I can honestly say that I have learned a lot. I want to learn even more about how to be a supportive and loving wife. The type of woman that I hope you would be proud to call your wife; the same pride I felt so many times when I called you my husband.

Since I discovered you affair with Melissa, I’ve been trying to give you hope for the marriage by learning how to be a better wife to you; to give you hope that you could return to a marriage that you wanted, and for us to build our family together. The last year has been very difficult because there was a lot of emotional detachment going on but the past six weeks after it was confirmed has been the most difficult time of my life. The pain and emptiness that I endure on a daily basis is almost too much to bear. My only saving grace is the memory of the love we once shared, of all the good times we have spent together, your extraordinary qualities that led me to becoming your wife and thoughts of us being together, someday happy again. Unfortunately, I now find those thoughts and feelings eroding away. Before I lose any more of these thoughts and feelings of what was once us, I must take some drastic steps.

Mark, I am still willing to do whatever it takes to correct the mistakes that I have made in the past and make our marriage stronger and closer than we ever thought possible. With all of my heart, I would like to build a new marriage with you. One in which we both feel loved, safe, cherished and honored. I simply can not continue my efforts to rebuild our marriage while you are still involved with Melissa. It has become too painful. We can only rebuild our marriage together when you completely end your relationship with Melissa.

Until that point, I feel I must break off all contact with you. I will avoid seeing you or talking to you or communicating with you in any way. I feel it is best that you continue to live elsewhere while I stay in our home. I do not wish for your bond with the our son to suffer, but I must ask that you see him someplace other then our house. I will continue to pay the utility bills and ask of you to continue to make the mortgage payment. If you have any emergency matters, you may call or email me.

I hope that you understand that I am not doing this to hurt you or punish you but to protect my feelings for you. I ask that you respect my decision to separate from you in this way. You must know the horrific pain and suffering I have endured because of your relationship with Melissa. I simply cannot be in contact with you any longer, knowing that you and she are together. This separation is a necessity to preserve my love for you and to avoid losing any more of the things we have shared together, and to give our marriage the best chance for recovery!

I will be willing to discuss our future together as soon as you are willing to permanently separate from Melissa and write the No Contact Letter that I previously mentioned to you.

In my mind I will keep the vision of a happy and loving husband where our needs are being met and of a relationship that no others could come between. I know it can happen! I still love you today; I just can not be with you or help you as long as you are still involved with Melissa..

Your loving wife,

XX

Leslie, just started working plan A this week, today in fact, what I see from with I know of the story is you may have to combine A and B. For example, when he looks to be coming over to work on the cars, poool or house, have the house looking spiffy, you looking spiffy and something smelling good, even if that is just the lemon pledge you spayed when he pulled up.

Hmm. Rufftimes, I think you ave no idea about plan a and plan b otherwise you wouldn't be saying they can be combined. Maybe read a bit before posting like that.

Leslie,

I am no planB expert as I have failed at it many times, but now am on track.

From what I see in your posts you have done an very good planA. Heck looks like you were doing that before you knew what it was.

if you are now to the point of resentment and loosing your love for your H then yes its time for planb.

I like your letter and again I am not an expert with the letters but it looks a lot like how mine did so I like it.

I wish you the best and will warn you planB is hard but from what I see you have the strength to do it.

Take it from one who messed her's up many times if your going to do it do it right.... Falling off the planb wagon just hurts you worse and makes the whole affair just drag out longer.

Take Care and Good luck ,

Hurting

Leslie, that's a fine letter. It makes the necessary points very clearly and he'll have no doubt about what he has to do to rectify the situation he finds himself in.

I’d go back to edit out names and ensure they don’t appear in future postings to retain your anonymity.

A couple of typos: “stage” S/B “state,” I think, or “status.” Also, “…bond with the our son…” S/B “…bond with our son…”

Other than that, I think it’s a beautiful Plan B letter. I’m so sorry you have to go into Plan B. I’d much rather your WH have come to his senses but they rarely do. Hang in there, lady.

I agree, very good Plan B letter. Has all the important elements.

Just a word of warning, Leslie. Its very typical behavior once your WH realizes you're serious about Plan B, he will become angry. And after anger comes manipulation. Be prepared, hon.

Jo