I`m sure my WH was seeing others while we were dating, I knew he was a skirt chaser.He would tell me things about the girls he had dated.But time went on I got pg, we did`nt marry till my D was born 6 months later my father really pushed the issue , so we did.WH was 21, I 20. We lived with his mom, there was a girl was calling me at his mom`s house telling me she was seeing WH.I moved back home. So I have always had this problem with WH from day 1.The marriage was back and forth more children, divorced him, remarried him, always gave him more chances to fly right.Always a women in the picture somewhere.But good ole me will will give a person another chance.(my fault).So here we are 31 years later trying to go to counseling which he thinks is a joke.

Does your insurance cover counseling? You may have some free sessions.Call them and ask.

I think my H was seeing others as well when we were dating. When we were dating I found a list of girls phone # hidden in a book and a package of condoms in his closet. I knew, but stupid me, he would get mad start a fight because I was ACCUSING him of something, like I was such a horrible person for thinking such things, I knew deep down, but I guess I didn't want to believe it, he always had the right things to say. Another thing is, he was EXTREMELY insecure when we were dating, it was me and him, but in his "2nd life" it was him & a list of girls. We talked a long time last night and he did finally admit that he did get those numbers from girls that went through his line where he worked (grocery store), he said he thinks he called some of them, & he said he thinks he cheated on me once before we were married, but he said he can't remember it's been 20 years. He said that he didn't cheat with any of the girls on the list and doesn't think he called anyone but a few times, but I asked him, WHY if you asked me to marry you, why would you do those things, even get # when your engaged? He says he doesn't know, he's sorry. He still insists that there have been no more since the lice one. I kind of think maybe he is telling me the truth since he has told me more I think he would have told me by now if there were more since our M. He said he made a huge mistake and knew that and didnt want to ever do it again, he claims he was full of guilt. He said he didn't want to risk losing me or his family. I feel like I don't know him fully now. But he said but look who I have been in the last 14 years, I want to believe that it is true, I have loved the person he was in the last 14 years. He knows he has a lot to work on. And is so willing (so far) to read and look through these things with me, but its still in the scarry stage. I hope we can work on our marriage. I just don't really know where to begin.
Our insurance does not pay for counseling. You sound so much like me in giving them chance after chance to change, I think that they or mine knows that I have always come back.

Yes its very scarey when you find out things about the person you thought you knew. My mom used to tell me when I was younger,you can live with someone for 40 years and STILL not know them. Sooo true.

Your off to a good start. Your hubby is talking and being honest. He is lookiing at this site with you. You two take ALL of it step by step.Its not gonna work over nite,it will take time. But keep the lines of conmunication open, buy Dr Harley`s book1s if you can.Remember to love one another, with that you can get through anything. As for my marriage I`m not sure,too little too late.

H is still trying to answer all my questions and be nice. But is it normal that everything he says I don't like the answer, it either doesn't make sense and sometimes like when I ask him why all of a sudden after that time you chose not to do something like that again. He just says, because I only wanted you, it ws a mistake. I want to hear more reassuring things. Is this normal? It seems like his answers make me feel worse. I still havent been able to show him any affection, which I know hurts him, I know he needs it too especially with his condition he has. He may never get better and regain strength and do the things he normally could do. I know he gets discouraged too from that. But I find it sooo hard to hug him right now. Is that normal? Will I be able to eventually?

Its normal you not wanting to hug him ect. Your hurt. it will pass, just keep talking to each other and be honest. Try to understand each other.Of course your not going to like his answers if he is being honest because you probaly want to hear the oppisite right? But if he is telling you the truth he is being honest and therefore you not going to like it. Try to fullfill each others EN and you will see just how wonderful it works, I hope you are reading on that the both of you, fill out the questionaire so you both will see what EN you have. Keep me posted.BIG HUGS.

Thanks, sorry I've been away, the last few days have been very trying, very mixed emotions, a roller coaster. One minute I feel like maybe this can work, the next minute I can't stand him. I have been reading "Surviving an Affair" and one of the things in the book that bothers me is, & I brought this up before is the ONS. They say that usually it's people who go out of town for business/ alcohol is mostly involved and that usually the spouse is meeting there needs when they are home. Plus it says that sometimes its a one time mistake but usually they happen hundreds of times, which scares me. He has completely sworn that it was only the one time.

We have been talking about our dating years and he never was completely honest with me back then either. Although I did suspect a couple things during our dating years he lied back then, we were young, I guess it's to be expected to a point. I think he should have been more honest about things when we became engaged and were planning on spending the rest of our lives together. I don't know what is normal for people to tell their future spouse or how much detail to go into. He says he doesn't remember alot from those years. I realize that I broke up with him and made the choice to marry him based on the suspicions I already knew, which he did confirm now that he did get girls # while he was working but can't remember how many he called and who he called, but says he didn't sleep with anyone while we were ever together he doesn't THINK??????? Back then I asked him questions about his past before me, he told me a little I didn't think to pursue it any further, I figured he was telling me everything. Plus I was young. I knew he had some other partners, He never answered how many, never thought to ask about circumstances around it. Like how long did you know each one for before having s**. I didn't think it was relevant, but now I kind of do, because maybe it's been a pattern. I thought he was telling me everything. But his pattern seems to have been that he would pretty much meet a girl and within a veeerrry short time sleep with her and not even really know her, that's what scares me the most.

I can forgive the one time if I knew he was telling me the truth that it was the only time. I'm just having a hard time accepting it when it just seemed too easy for him and he got away with it for 15 years. I feel cheated that he should have told me a little more about his past so I could have made my own decision then based on who he was then to marry him or not, I feel cheated, I feel Like now I never really knew him, or a very small side of him. I think he wanted to keep the good girl, but still wanted to play, but to make sure the good girl was there in the end when he was done. He says that isn't true, and is pretty sure he didn't cheat on me when we were dating/ we did break up alot so I think he did in the couple days we were broke up, but he says he doesnt think so, but again can't remember.

So do I forget about all the past stuff from dating ect. and just work on from the ONS and now. Thats what he says. he swears he has been faithful to me since the ONS, hasn't done anything inappropriate and says to look at who he has been the last 15 years. He has been great and we have had a good marriage (if he hasn't had any more ONS), but I did completely trust him. So I fear maybe I didn't see signs. Please help based on what I've said should I believe him? That's what's stopping my progression to move on with this. Is this normal, or does itjust take time? Thanks again for being there

Wanting, I can see you're hurt by the adultery 15 years ago, and it's entirely natural and appropriate for you to feel that way. Your instincts were correct back then and perhaps you should have pressed a little harder to find out the truth. Or maybe not. Perhaps your questions then were all that were necessary to stop the adultery cold in its tracks. You are absolutely correct he should have admitted it back then so you could make your choice about what he’d done. He did not, though, and one can’t turn back the clock.

With respect, you’re writing as if you feel the last 15 years have all been a lie perpetrated on you by your husband because of a single act of adultery. I suggest to you that’s not the case. In fact, the lie…the adultery…is a single narrow thread that is separate from the rest of your marital experiences but which connects today with that day 15 years ago. See what I mean? The lie he told is not the whole fabric of your marriage. It’s one single strand of fiber among millions...some remembered and others forgotten.

Your husband most certainly did wrong that afternoon. He should never have gone over to her house--he knew he shouldn’t but he went anyway. The thing I see in your words when you speak about him though, he figured out immediately he had done something terrible. He apparently never went back. You never saw signs of any guilt or remorse, because they probably weren’t strong, overt signals.

Many people, men and women, compartmentalize their life very well. With many men, for instance, the wife has very little idea of what goes on at work. It’s called “not bringing the job home” with them. It works. It keeps the job separate from the home life and makes it easier for husband and wife to interact without dealing with the stress from an outside source.

Using compartmentalization, your husband may have refused to allow himself to even think about what he’d done. It wasn’t something he consciously did. He just did it. It was a way of compensating for the guilt and shame. While it was always there, he did not consciously mull it over constantly in his mind. When he had to think about it and when he finally did confess it, he should have been relieved to give up the shame…and you said he was. The guilt was no longer even a sub-conscious strain on him.

I don’t know about the time before you’re married. I have to confess…I don’t recall people or events dating back 25 years very well myself. I can’t recall the name of the woman I was dating the week before I met the woman I would soon marry, for instance. I only have a vague memory with no details, no faces, and nothing specific to base any discussion on. I would be inclined to believe your husband when he says he does not remember. He may very well not. In any case, what went on then was before you and he took your vows. It is the 25 years since that are the critical ones, right?

I said above your instincts were good about the ONS 15 years ago, and I think your gut feelings have been good in the years since. If your instincts have not kicked in during all the years since, I think they are telling you (by default) your husband has not re-offended. They would have warned you if he had. Trust your instincts in that, just as you trusted your instincts when they told you he’d strayed.

Wanting, I hope you can get into MC with your husband. Perhaps you could go see your pastor or priest? Your husband definitely needs to understand how his cruel selfish choice back then to have sex with that woman still hurts you today. When he apologizes though, when he has repented and made amends even more than he has for the last 15 years, can you forgive him and let yesterday’s sins belong to yesterday?

longhorn, thank you so much for your wonderful post. I have read it several times & you have actually opened my eyes and have made me think about some things a great deal.

As I have said before my hardest hump to overcome right now is actually believing him that this was an isolated incident. I NEVER would have suspected the ONS 15 yrs ago if it weren't for the crabs.(I at that time chose to try & believe he was telling me the truth). He NEVER would have told me this a week ago if I hadn't been pursuing it for the last several mo.

I do understand what you're saying about before we were married & I do believe he probably doesn't remember alot and I should let those times go because they were before we said "I Do", but what bothers me, is it seems as though S** was something I think he did back then whether he knew the person very well or not, which brings me to the ONS. I guess I'm just struggling with the fact that if it was that easy that day, what made him all of a sudden stop then, if that's how he was even before we were M.(I'm not trying to make it sound like he had a ton of S. partners, he claims about 7, that's alot to me)

I do want to trust my instincts, he has been reading on MB with me and other books that I have purchased he seems very willing to do whatever it takes to rebuild our M.

We hopefully will be starting MC soon. He knew this was very difficult for me when he finally admitted this to me after 15 yrs, his first words were, are you going to leave me. I told him no, not at this point, I want to work this out and he agrees that we have a long road ahead of us, but I fear that IF there are more, he is afraid to tell me to not hurt me anymore than he already has.

That's one reason why he told me he never told me 15 yrs ago. He thought for sure I would leave, (I probably would have, we were only M 10 mo. & no children yet, & we had rough dating yrs). He said that's why he chose never to do it again because he didn't want to risk losing me, & our family that started right after that incident, I want so bad to believe those words.

I just keep praying that I will come to believe in him & that he is now tellig me the full truth. That's what I keep praying for.

Not telling a betrayed spouse the whole truth is something wayward spouses will do in a sincere effort to protect their spouses from further pain. It's something to keep in mind, something to watch for in counseling.

Do you have the book Surviving An Affair by Dr. Willard Harley? If you do not, order a copy as soon as you possibly can. It's available from the MB bookstore.

In SAA, the last two-thirds of the book is about implementing guidelines that aid both of you in recovery. You and your husband should read the "Four Rules To Guide Marital Recovery." Actually, you should study them closely, don't just read them. When you and your husband have implemented the "Rule of Honesty," also called "Radical Honesty" here on MB, you and he can go back over the question of repeated offenses.

I think you can trust your instincts. Although you didn't have enough evidence to bring him to an admission 15 years ago, you did KNOW something had happened. If you didn’t instinctually know, the question wouldn’t have resurfaced this much later.

Once aroused, I think those suspicious instincts have stood by you all these years. Adulterers take secret phone calls and they won’t let you check their cell phones or the records, they email other women, or IM them. They take too long in visits to the corner grocery, go out for happy hour with the guys too much, and they just aren’t where they’re supposed to be too many times for comfort. If you haven't seen any unexplained things like this, it’s hard to say he’s been seeing anyone else. Believe me, there are any number of betrayed spouses out here who had no alarming incident 15 years prior, but who have deduced “something” was going on when adultery did start.

I could be wrong. You're the one sitting there with your husband and looking into his eyes, but I just don't get the feeling from your words that there is something there. I hope I’m right and you’re wrong…if you know what I mean.

You ask how he could have done this so easily. There is a class of adulterers who offend once but never do again because of the shame and guilt at what they did. It can happen because of a passing depression, some momentary disappointment at work or at home, some pressure from his peers, perhaps. If something like that happened, he might have been caught off guard--the protective barrier he had between himself and other women might have been breached and he let things go too far. It has happened. It will happen again. The vulnerability he suffered is, again, something a counselor can help you and your husband explore.

I hope you and your husband are able to work through this and recover to have a stronger marriage than you had before. It sounds like you have a good one but this has cast a cloud over it. I urge you two to get that counseling and work through SAA. You both have too much invested in the other to let things slide away now. Hang in there, okay?

I havent read any of your posts but I'm assuming by your advise that perhaps you have been through adultery in your M? I have ordered and have read most of "Surviving an Affair". It has helped some.

I suspected & asked him through the last 15 yrs, not alot if he cheated then and he always looked me in the eyes and said NO, I have always been faithful to you.

From what I'm gathering you are saying, is that I should trust him when he says that since that time 15 yrs ago he has been faithful to me?

You said (& I apologize I dont know how to figure out the quote thing) "If something like that happened, he might have been caught off guard--the protective barrier he had between himself and other women might have been breached and he let things go too far. It has happened. It will happen again." What do you mean by that, it will happen again? Are you saying because he was so easily able to perform a ONS once it will be easy for him to do it again, or are you just saying that ANYONE in that situation call fall short and make that mistake? Thanks again.

Wanting, virtually every poster here on MB has had to deal with adultery in our marriages. That's why we're here. We're hoping we can help others with a thing we've already been through.

I can't tell you you must trust him because I cannot sit with him to look in his eyes and watch his body language. You can. What I am saying is that your own words suggest he's not behaving like other adulterers I've seen and interacted with here on MB. He appears to be trying very hard and doing all the things a truly remorseful wayward spouse would do. I think the chances are excellent he did as he said when he finally admitted the ONS so long ago, but you're the final judge on that. Again, it's something you can, and should, bring up in counseling.

I'm sorry I didn't write clearly in that section you quoted. No, I did not mean the same individual would necessarily re-offend. I meant that it happens to many individuals in our society. Of those who do offend, there are some who can't ever be convinced to cheat again because they remember the guilt and shame they felt with the first incident.

Here's an article from Psychology Today that explains what I'm trying to say far more clearly.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-19930501-000027.html


Hope this helps. Be strong, Wanting.

longhorn, as much as I would like to look in his eyes and believe he's telling me the truth is very difficut. I see the same look when he told me all these years that he had NEVER cheated on me and that he has always been faithful to me.
In your other post you said many wayward spouses wont tell everything because they don't want to further hurt their spouse, so is that what I hope to accomplish from MC or may I never know.

Is there just a point that you make that decision and go on even if they aren't telling you everything if both of you want to work on the marriage. Basically from this day forward, and just work on what you know? Thanks

We can't ever know exactly what is in another's mind and I don't have any magic words to make the doubts go away. The couples counseling, if done by an experienced professional who is pro-marriage, is probably the best forum in which to explore the questions you still have. I believe some day after you’ve explored all this in MC and had time to rehash everything in your mind, you’ll need to make a decision whether to go forward from that date or whether you cannot live with the uncertainty. Either way, you’ll have to commit to letting that decision be the end of this period or you’ll drive yourself up a wall. I hope you find the affirmation you’re looking for in the couples counseling because I see a lot of hope for your marriage.

Does the saying hold true "Once a cheater always a cheater"?
I really don't know what to expect in MC. I hope that I will be able to come to believe him when he says that was the only time because I do want my M to work, I even told him even if there is more he needs to tell me NOW so we can take all of it to MC, he says he knows and is telling me everything.
It's just so hard to not go back the last 15 yrs and look at all the times he had opportunity to do it again. Then again I keep looking at what we had in our M and that there were never any signs of other adultery, but that's where it makes it hard an ONS seems to easy to hide and again w/o the crabs I never would have known about the first one.

One thing w/ my H, whenever I brought up the past issue he would get VERY angry, and would tell me to stop bringing up the past, I've already told you, I don't have to keep telling you the same thing, but he would get very mad. I know it's still fresh & he's going to be on his best behaviour for now, but he hasn't done that since I've been asking him if he's sure there hasn't been other times. He keeps reassuring me there hasn't & that he wouldn't do it ever again. Someone told me in another post to just ask questions, well what kind of questions? I mean do I keep asking him the same question, "Are you sure that was the only time?" & his actions will tell me if he starts to get angry? It doesn't seem like that's what I should do, but it's hard not to.

I'ts hard to not wonder what was wrong w/ me or what I didn't do for him that made him look elsewhere. I have always taken good care of myself even after 2 kids, I always have made an effort to do that for him.

I think for me time will maybe tell in his actions if he starts getting angry and stops being willing to work on this. I think he's read that there is a Looonng road ahead of us and that I'm going to ask questions, & probably the same ones over, I hope he can be patient. He gets frustrated only when I ask the same question and he says he can't remember, I do admit I get angry w/ him and say I don't see how you can't remember. He says he's sorry but he doesn't want to make up an answer just to answer the question. I will admit that I do get angry w/ him and make rude remarks when we start to talk about it, and I will have angry outbursts which I know isn't the right thing to do.
I do want to show affection towards him but I feel like if I do he'll think everythings ok. As far as S** goes, I'm worried to be w/ him intimately for fear he'll think about that now. Thanks again for all your insight. IT just helps to talk about it because I don't have anyone to talk to.

I think if the WS does`nt get help in figuring out why they did what they did then chances are they will keep up their waywardness.It was`nt anything you did or did not do although they may use that to justify what they did. There is NO excuse for cheating.My WH used the excuse he was just talking to his friend of many years, the Counsler told him you should have been talking to your wife instead about your problems. Sometimes they do it for a thrill, ect.
As far as asking the same questions over again I did that to my WH because I always got a different answer to the same question and he would get angry, or he would say I don`t remember.I don`t believe that because he remembers what he wants to. They will make you feel like your losing your mind and it is hard not to lose your temper. I`ve tried to be so patient but my goodness when someone is playing with your head or insulting your intelligence how could one not lose their temper!!!!!I tell my WH I might have been born in the dark but I was`nt born yesterday.I can tell you he should`nt be getting angry with you at all. Mine was doing that because he did`nt want to discuss it, he could`nt keep up or even remeber what lies he told me before.I would tell my WH I did`nt do this you did therefore you have no right to get angry with me, I had noticed if I had said, I would like to ask you some questions my WH would sit for a few minutes then he would get up and start walking making up excuses I need to use the bathroom ect.Watch the body language, the eye contact, ect.And remeber trust your gut feelings if you feel there were more there probally was.

IMO the answer to that is YES, IF the cheater does not address those issues with themselves that allowed them to cheat in the first place.

I believe that was the mistake that I made with my FWW - continuing a R with her without insisting on her addressing those issues. I'm not making that mistake again.

Exactly what I told my WH, if you don`t find out what has caused all of this(cheating,drinking) you will do it again. I told him if he does`nt go to counseling for us at least do it for yourself.

maninmotion, so you're basically telling me that since it's been 15 yrs of him lying to me he probably has done it more since? He claims that even though he didn't tell me he was scared enough he was going to lose me and the guilt was horrible (even though I never felt anything) he said he needed to obviously not show me his feelings due to me being more suspicious.

aptiva, Hi, well he would get very angry before he admitted to me the ONS, so during the course of the last 15 yrs, and especially the last several mo. whenever I would bring it up he would get mad. I know now to cover up what he didn't want to admit to. Thats why I think time will tell if he starts to get angry and impatient with me maybe I'll know there was more. So far, he has been extremely patient, and reassuring, (but I think he should kiss my butt right now LOL), sometimes I feel like it's not enough, but maybe it's just my insecurities.I don't trust him at all, not to even go to the store, for fear he'll find someone and take them some where for a quickie. We do talk alot and he reads anything I think he should. He also asked if there were books for the one who has committed adultery, and I don't really know of any. He has read portions of "Surviving an Affair", mostly the parts on how to recover our Marriage. He seems sincere when he tells me there hasn't been any more times. but again it's the same look when he told me all those yrs ago.

There is something also that my H does that makes it difficult at times to believe things he says, and I had a thread going on it before he has a hard time w/ keeping a straight face, I call it a smirk, it's very irritating especially when you're trying to have a serious converstation. He claims it's because he thinks I'm looking at his mouth and expecting him to do it like I'm looking for it. I'ts been a huge problem w/ us lately because it is hard to know if he's serious or not. The MC is suppose to call us hopefully back today and maybe we can go next week.

I don't think MIM is telling you your husband has offended more than the one time. The thing is, if the reasons for an adultery are not addressed and the problems resolved, the individual is vulnerable for future offenses. That's quite true but it doesn't necessarily have to be applied retroactively. By pressing this issue and finding the truth, etc., you may have prevented an adultery next week, or next month...

The smirk, among many other things, is something to bring up in MC. I'm sure that individual will have a suggestion or two on how to resolve that issue.

I'm still optimistic your husband is in that small group of men who had a ONS and who were so appalled by the guilt and shame, they never indulged themselves again. You say he got mad every time you brought up the incident, but now that he has confessed that, he's not angry about other questions. That fits. He doesn't have anything to hide from with regard to other questions as he did with questions about that one incident.

That he won't remember answers to your questions is normal in two respects. First, it's been one heck of a long time. Unlike TV courtroom dramas, people cannot remember where they were 15 years ago on June 6th at 3:00PM in the afternoon.

Second, even if it had been last month, one must "pay attention" to a given slice of time in order to recall it later. I can't tell you much about my drive to the post office yesterday afternoon, for instance. I know I went there…and I can recollect bits and pieces, but I do not consciously remember looking at every landmark on the way. If I actually saw the furniture store there on the side of the road, I don’t have any memory of it, and certainly don’t know any details like what the sign out front said, the number of cars in the parking lot, etc., etc. I must have noted all those things in passing, but it didn't make enough of an impression on me to be able to talk about it even one day later. See what I mean?

Your husband's inability to answer a specific question is probably because he does not, in fact, remember what happened. It seems to me his answer of not wanting to make something up is a forthright, honest answer.

I think you’re wanting a way to immediately go back to trusting your husband as you did the day before you found out he actually did have a ONS. That’s not going to happen. Dr. Harley writes that it can easily take two years, and I’ve seen accounts of five years before full trust is reestablished. My best advice on this would be to relax and understand that the two of you have a number of things to work on…but you have a lot of time to work on them. Let things come to you, instead of chasing them so hard, okay?

Hang in there, lady.

I beg to differ but my WH CAN remember something I might have said 20 years ago but when pressing him on someone I KNOW for a fact he had sex with, he says he don`t remember or I did`nt have sex with her it was for the money.Whatever that means.And this JUST FRIENDS AFFAIR he had, he still does`nt admit to but I`m slowly getting little bits out of him.Funny how all these years MY WH stated he never had sex with anyone but a few nites a go he said`Of all the women, you were the only one I loved` The I don`t remember line is bull.