Blindside,

Good luck. Hang in there. You will survive. It hurts like ******, I know, but trust in the fact that you WILL get better, even if it just happens a little bit at a time.

thank you same to you!

Hiker - there's something you don't understand here.

If you choose to move out, you would wisely split up your assets and debts and you'd both be financially worse off. You'd be doing this regardless of what she wants. Given this obvious fact,



Close the account.

Open a new one in your name only. You TAKE CONTROL! All expenditures have to go through you.

I'm assuming you're the only one with income, right? If I'm wrong, splitting the account is even easier. She can have her own.

Do you have jointly held investments? Savings accounts? If so, take half of them today and move to your own account. Don't argue about this because if you were to move out you'd do this anyway, right?

WAT

In my state, all debts and assets are the responsibility of both spouses. She works and has an income. I cannot control all the money. Even if I could, she will just charge things on her credit cards, and I would be responsible for half of that debt in the event of our divorce.

As you say, I have already opened my own account in preparation for leaving. The separation agreement puts a cap on the financial responsibility for the other spouse's credit cards and loans.

The separation agreement can say anything you both agree to. Nothing says is has to be split 50/50.

Are you making her pull her own weight after the separation? Or are you funding too much of her habit?

How bad does she want you to leave vs her leaving? The fog has its benefits.

WAT

Well, I am my wife's third husband. She went through a nasty divorce with her second husband, so she is very savvy about legal issues. She won't accept less then 50% of everything. I am only paying the bills I incur: car insurance, cell phone, DSL, and half my son's preschool cost.

I calculate that she will be able to meet all her financial obligations if she cuts back on her traveling. But I have been told by her best friend that the OM has offered to help her financially if she needs it. (I'd really like to see him send her $2600 a month!)

I am finding it very difficult to locate an affordable place to stay in my area. If there was a way to force her out of the house I would do it; it would save me a lot of trouble.

I understand that the separation may not help my cause at all, but I really believe she has settled into a case of having her cake and eating it too. I think losing me might strain her relationship with the OM slightly because he isn't really interested in talking to her about her daily activities, and she loves to talk about her day. I have been filling that need very well. Add admiration and family commitment to those needs and I am 1 EN up on the OM. Of course, she has shut me out of providing affection and sexual fulfillment. That's pretty powerful stuff, but there's nothing I can do about that.

Will the separation be enough to stop the affair? I don't think so, but it may contribute to its eventual decline.

That's my hope, at least. Nothing else has worked to date.

Last time - I think you're making a mistake by moving out.

Plan B is part of the conventional wisdom - for the reasons you state. But if this is old hat for her, I'd bet that if you wait her out she'll leave or sweeten the pot for you to leave.

Another option is to put you house on the market. If you divorce, this is likely anyway. When the house sells, you BOTH separate and you have the equity at hand to get yourself set up in new digs.

WAT

Worthatry,

I don't think she'll leave. She really has no reason to do so. She can still sneak away and see the OM and there's not much I can do about that. She wanted a separation, but on her terms. Those terms were that she could stay in the house and that she and I would date and also do things as a family. The dating thing is like tossing me a bone to keep me hooked; she's not quite ready to get rid of me in favor of the OM.

What she really wanted was to continue the affair in secret and have me too, but I found out about the affair and that plan was foiled. So her new plan is to try to hold on to me somehow why still carrying on the affair. The separation allows her to see the OM much more often and whenever convenient for both of them. The fact that secrecy will no longer be necessary also helps me, because that will tend to take a little of the excitement out of their meetings.

A no contact separation is the only answer here. If I stay I enable her plan. If she would leave that would be great, but that isn't going to happen. She might try to drive me out by making her visits to the OM more obvious and more frequent; they hurt me badly as it is.

It sounds as though you think she would leave if I stayed, and she might if I made life uncomfortable enough for her in this house, but that defeats the purpose of Plan A. Her last memories of me should be good ones. I want her to feel as if us getting together again once the affair ends is not a bad option.

I have to say that putting the house up for sale is an interesting idea, and might also help shock her into rethinking what she is doing. I could also force her to buy me out to get my name off the mortgage. Her stepfather has the money to help her accomplish this.

Good. More time for you to Plan A while the affair fizzles.

You're right. Classic fence sitting. Very typical. It will be tough to endure this. Many have gone before you.

Of course she did. All WSs want things on their terms. Don't give it to her. If separation has to happen, make it on your terms - you're not going to do it and if she wants it, she has to make it happen.

Right again. Typical affair behavior. Proof she doesn't want to give up you or the family. Hence, your opportunity to validate this conclusion by being an advocate for the family.

If you leave, you enable the affair even more.

Please explain your logic that "a no contact separation is the only answer." I really don't follow that logic. It seems to me that a voluntary separation on your part is exactly what the next step would be to divorce - your willing participation in that direction. Why do that if you don't want a divorce?

It's another thing entirely if the WS separates. Plan B can then be enacted which in effect means, "It was your (WS's) decision to separate, now it MY decision to STAY separated." The BS takes control of the situation that they were involuntarily placed in.

This is what I'm encouraging you to do - stay in control as much as you can. Do not relinquish control by doing what she wants - you moving out.


No, I'm not suggesting you make life uncomfortable for her in the way you're thinking. Plan A her and allow HER to conclude that life is uncomfortable because you are the antithesis of her fantasy. To support her fantasy you HAVE to be the bad guy. Be the good guy. Confuse her. She may eventually leave anyway because her addiction draws her out. THEN Plan B and pull the rug out from under her.

Does any of this make sense?

Take control. Maintain the family configuration if in appearance only. Do not participate in breaking up the family by willingly separating.

WAT

What motivation is there for her to end the fence sitting? None that I can see. She has it all now. Why would the affair burn out under these conditions? She sees him less than two or three times a month for a matter of hours. Can't the fantasy be sustained a long time under those conditions? Wouldn't throwing them together actually accelerate the burnout if it is going to happen at all?

so worthatry,
sorry I am jumping in here.
Should it be a goal in Plan A to keep the WS in the house for as long as possible to keep implementing Plan A?

Do you do that without talking about the A and reconciliation?
again sorry for jumping in.
Blindsided

I agree - there may be none, at the moment.

This doesn't mean it'll stay this way indefinitely.

Affairs end. Very, very few last long even if the affairees get as far as marriage.

To grasp the answer to this, I think you need to understand dopamine and what it does in the brain. Dopamine is the love drug. More specifically, it's the infatuation drug. Eventually the supply of dopamine will diminish as the thrill diminishes. It has to happen. At that point the only way the affair will continue is if durable love takes its place. This can't be predicted nor controlled by you.

Seeing him only two or three times a month doesn't sound like an opportunity for real love to flourish to me. I'm not saying it won't happen - just that it doesn't sound likely.

That said, you're her third husband. Something's going on which may be a personality quirk of hers. This may make her affair other than a "garden variety" version. We can't tell from here. But no matter, you should take the same strategies regardless - unless you decide you want a divorce.

JMHO

WAT

In my opinion, yes. Until you've accomplished all exposure and have demonstrated all your Plan A improvements to the extent your spouse allows.

What is your "that" in this question? Keeping them in the house?

Here's my canned description of Plan A:

The way I understand Plan A, it's based on two premises that must be accepted for “garden variety” affairs:

1. The BS (betrayed spouse) cannot end the affair.

2. The affair developed, to some extent great or small, due to a poor marital environment which the BS, also to some extent great or small, contributed to.

If a BS cannot accept these two statements as givens, they will not be able to implement Plan A.

With these facts established, there is only one constructive thing a BS can do to influence the course of an affair: change the affair-friendly marital environment by eliminating the BS contributions to it.

To this end, the BS must perform an introspective search for all the things they were doing or not doing that contributed to the WS's (wayward spouse) decision to have an affair - and then eliminate those negative contributions. These may include failure to meet emotional needs or disbursing too many love busters - but is usually some combination of both.

This DOES NOT mean that the BS "caused" the affair. This DOES NOT mean that the BS can or should try to change failings of the WS.

It simply means that the BS needs to change and improve the only thing they have control over - themselves - to eliminate love busters and begin meeting as many emotional needs of the WS as they can.

Central in this is stopping all disrespectful judgements, angry outbursts, and selfish demands. This is agonizingly difficult in the face of an affair. A BS has to counter the common knee jerk reactions of demanding the WS "straighten up" and delivering ultimatums and threats. Acting in this fashion simply reinforces the WS's rationalizations to conduct the affair in the first place - because the marriage "is over" or expendable and the spouse is unreasonable, therefore the affair is justifiable.

Invariably, this course leads BSs to feel like doormats and [censored] kissers. It also conjures up thoughts of enabling the affair by not resisting it. But the better logic to apply is that the BS isn't a doormat or enabling because they're doing the only things in their power to stop the affair - it's just counterintuitive to the initial reactions. This doesn't mean that boundaries shouldn't be set and protective measures shouldn't be taken.

Let me add that Plan A is all about the BS. You do not "Plan A" your WS. It is not intended to change ANYTHING but the BS.

Remember, despite outward appearances, the WS is very likely torn between the excitement of the OP vs leaving the BS and family. They invariably wonder, “Can I have both?” When they realize the answer is no, they next wonder how long can I stall before choosing? It’s during this “stall” that demonstrating Plan A improvements is vital. Why make it easy for the WS to choose the OP by providing a less than competitive choice?

I'll end this by offering that there is one additional thing a BS can do to alter the course of the affair - but I call it "destructive" rather than "constructive" (to separate it from the one and only constructive thing, discussed above). It's to expose the affair to the light of day. But this deserves its own discussion.

OK, one more thing. The affair is very, very likely to end DESPITE what the BS does or does not do. Until it ends, there is NO chance for reconciliation. Ideally, Plan A improvements can encourage the WS to end the affair sooner because the spouse's "causes" of it are eliminated. But regardless, following Plan A prepares the BS for a successful reconciliation whenever and for whatever reason the affair ends by jump starting the process - their share of pre-existing marital problems are already confronted.

WAT

Well, I definitely agree with you about being the third husband. There may be some very serious issues lurking within her that may only be resolved with years of counseling.

Believe me, that thought has occurred to me and I often wonder if recovery from this affair will only leave me walking on eggshells for the rest of our marriage.

I'm thinking that the thrill of her affair would be more likely to diminish if they have an opportunity to see each other more often. This affair has been going on for 10 months now, with discovery only since March. You would think that the thrill would have worn off by now, except for the fact that they don't see each other very often.

Blindside,

Worthatry provides a great explanation of Plan A, but consider this: Your partner may not allow you to provide all his emotional needs, for example, my wife will no longer allow me to provide the emotional needs of affection or sexual fulfillment.

In that case, you can only provide those emotional needs that your partner allows, usually those of conversation, family commitment, adoration, etc.

Try to get your partner to take the emotional needs questionaire found elsewhere on this site so you know what to work on.

As to when to end Plan A and move to Plan B, the primary purpose of Plan B is not to jog your partner into sensibility, that may or may not happen. The primary purpose is to protect the love you have for your partner from turning into anger and resentment due to their flaunting their affair in your face. If you lose your love for your partner, then who will want to save your relationship?

Plan B also forces the OP to meet all the emotional needs of your partner. If they manage that, you lose your partner, if they don't, there is a good chance your partner will come back to you. Plan A makes his decision to return to you easier because you made the home a welcome place for him to be.

I know I can do this and right now I want to save my relationship.

it is all so hard when the WS says all of those typical things you mentioned. I don't love you, Our marriage was never any good.....

Well I had started packing last week because I didn't know what else to do but I am going to put my efforts into something more constructive.

I have exposed his affair to his side of the family, and just like someone said on another thread they rallied around him.
Saying to me, well keep in touch.
Gimmie a break.

I was told by my WH that this girl he is now in love with was engaged, Now I know that is a lie.
I know he does work for her parents but I don't know them at all.
I know exposure is another factor here but I have done that and no one seems to care.
Thanks Hiker, and Worthatry,
you are both talking me down and helping me not to panic.

I have the same problem with my mother-in-law. She is on her third marriage and has been telling my wife to pursue the passion. I talked to her about how I wanted to save my marriage and all she did was tell me all the same things my wife has said were wrong with our marriage, all of which suddenly appeared after the affair. She tells her that if her passion for me is gone the marriage isn't worth saving. And she has also told her that our 4 year old son doesn't come into the equation. Nice attitude, eh?

Stay the course; you don't need them.

Real nice attitude. UGH.

I would have put more weight into what his family said but with his sister's 3 marriages and his mothers non loving non communicating marriage they really don't have a clue about good realationships.

Do you think you may try to stay in your home for a little longer?
Don't you think it will help you stand your ground?

Ordinarily I would stay longer, but I am reaching that point where the resentment is building to the point that I am losing my desire to save the marriage.

Separating should help me preserve my love for my wife. Does it throw them together? Yes, but maybe seeing him more often will allow some rust to show through on her knight in shining armor.

Gosh that must be a hard point to reach.

I don't think I will be that far behind you.

At least then you can protect your son from any emotional harm.
Will you be able to move out and stay relatively close?
Distance wise I mean?